Kanojo, Okarishimasu - Vol. 21 Ch. 178 - The Girlfriend and the Tiger’s Den (Part 3)

[Superchoco28]

I don't NOT like you?! What's that even supposed to mean?

Don't look at me buddy, I've been asking this same question ever since she spouted that bu****it.

Also, guys, calm down, it's not worth it to start wars on the internet about the amorous compatibility of fictional characters from an average (at best) manga.

 

[Summer_Otaku]

yall really writing 400 essays on a kanokari chapter???

 

[Berthold]

I was trying to search for the context of that phrase, but all I see is a discussion between scholars

 

[HalfCanadian]

I want to address the sexual assault charges against Ruka.

I have a hard time taking this seriously. The big issue with man-on-woman sexual assault is the threat of violence. This isn't to discount the discomfort/violation that women feel, but the real threat of violence is a part of this. Men are larger then women, stronger than women.

Ruka is not a physical threat to Kazuya. She's younger, significantly shorter (Kazuya needs to crouch while she stands on tip-toes to pat his head) and meaningfully weaker. Ruka kissed Kazuya against his will, but if he could stop it. But he didn't want to draw attention to them.

Painting with broad strokes, men manipulate people with the threat of violence, while women manipulate people with the suggestion of sex.

 

[AthrunZF]

Chapter 127 guys :3

 

[Strategistpro]

@startwindowsnormally

Chizurus refusal to act is justified. She's led a past of losing everyone she ever loved, you'd be scared to get attached ro another person too after that. Kazuyas all she as left now, the only person she loves and trusts, what if the relationship doesn't workout? They'll drift apart. What if her career requires her to go somewhere else and kazuya os unable to follow? They'll drift apart. Their young and young relationships often don't end well, chizuru doesn't want to get in a relationship with the only person she has left and risk losing him when the relationship she has right now with him is really good. She's scared. But she's also slowing releasing that she has to do something. As for the ignoring, she was obviously flustered cause of the confession. I admit chizuru indirectly hurts kazyas self esteem by some of the stuff she does but the key word here is indirectly.

Im not trying to argue which character is better. I'm simply telling you that ruka is not the best option for kazuya. If you seriously think ruka is a better match for kazuya you need to reread this manga. It has, is and always will be chizuru. Sure they have communication issues but thats something theyll have to work out. Plus alot of anime couples I've seen have major communication issues so this is not new. The point being is that kazuya and chizuru have in immensely powerful bond and love each other alot. Kazuya does not love ruka nor has a strong bond with her. This in its self makes her a bad choice. You seem to judge who's a better fit on how well they communicate but that all wrong. Ruka is just more open but there's no love between them. That relationship actually don't work out. She's toxic and at the end of the day she blackmailed him. Rukas crimes are much worse than chizurus and all the "bad" stuff you claim chizuru has done has been indirect with no intent to harm. But ruka is actually trying to sabotage kazuyas relationship with chizuru, which is what makes him happy. Ruka knows kazuyas happy with chizuru but Theres a reason the author is going to pair him with chizuru. You really think the author has been building up this pairing just to show that there not compatible? No.

 

[startwindowsnormally]

@Strategistpro
> "Chizurus refusal to act is justified. She's led a past of losing everyone she ever loved, you'd be scared to get attached ro another person too after that."
Great, so now you've established that because a character a emotional/mental trauma we can excuse their actions, so Ruka, who has existed in a constant state of physical/mental/emotional trauma is totally justified now, right? I know that's not the point you're trying to make, but the argument you've made are wrought with double standards, and don't work in your favor.

Collapsed for space:

Spoiler

> " I admit chizuru indirectly hurts kazyas self esteem by some of the stuff she does but the key word here is indirectly."
Indirectly? Did you overlook these instances where she directly attacks his mental fortitude, if not his self-esteem outright? Ex: "Tell your grandma we broke-up; Don't tell you grandma we broke-up / Don't go out with Ruka; Go out with Ruka / Do you love me?; Of course you don't love me, your only a client"
You're making excuses for Chizuru, and it essentially telling me it's okay that Chizuru leads Kazuya on and manipulates him into acting in her best interest? I'm not defending Ruka's actions despite there being room to look into the circumstances and events leading up to her actions, things you're willing to ignore in Ruka's case, but you factor into Chizuru's case. You're even willing to ignore Ruka's character growth while touting Chizuru's character growth. Don't forget, Chizuru is equally responsible for manipulating Kazuya into a relationship with Ruka for her own sake.

What makes you believe that Kazuya and Chizuru are compatible? Going by what you've said, you believe compatibility comes from an emotional high called "love". If that's the case I'd like to introduce you to divorce and separation rates, which combined come out to near 50%. A successful relationship can't be built on a emotional high and a desire to mate, there's more to it than that. There's compatibility in peoples personalities, and what goals people have in life, and whether a person will help them obtain it, or hinder them.

Below is a repost of one of my responses, that details character's desires, and "critical happiness factors".

I never said that Chizuru is bad, I've said she is bad for Kazuya as a romantic partner. I've also said, albeit in a round-about way, Ruka is everything Kazuya wants, just not WHO he wants. I'm going to collapse my train of thought down in a spoiler, so that other people don't have to scroll through what ever long typed out dribble I post.

Spoiler

My opinion on who should be with Kazuya is based off of "critical factors for happiness", basically what is essential for a character to achieve fulfillment/happiness in life, and the idea that I would like to maximize every character's happiness. Listed below is what I consider each persons critical happiness factors based on what I've observed throughout the series.
a. Kazuya
1. Have a romantic relationship with a girlfriend/fiancé/wife
2. Have this special person reciprocate his feeling, and mirror the level of passion/affection
3.Have this person accept him for who he is
4. Have a large family
5. Dedicated and emotionally available/intelligent
6. Support Chizuru in her future endeavors
b. Mami
1. Have the ability to lead Kazuya on, just in case she ever decides to fall in love with him, or if she needs a shoulder to lean on
2. Get revenge on Chizuru, Ruka, and Kazuya for standing up to her
3. Drive away the other woman
c. Chizuru
1. Become a great actress on par, or exceeding that of her Grandma
2. Improve herself
3. Maintain a relationship with Kazuya
d. Ruka
1. Acquire Kazuya's love
2. Become a girlfriend/fiancé/wife/mother to Kazuya
3. Support Kazuya in his endeavors
e. Sumi
1. Improve herself
2. Overcome her social anxiety
3. Help others
4. Maintain a relationship with Kazuya

I then pair this with how many "critical factors for happiness" could Kazuya x [insert name] fulfill in a list below.
a. Kazuya x Mami
Mami has the capacity to fulfill the requirements for being a significant other, as well she has expressed a desire to have a large family, but you're a fool if you think Mami will be faithful to Kazuya, or accept him for who he is.
Mami fulfills Kazuya's 1 & 4 requirements
b. Kazuya x Chizuru
Chizuru fulfills a lot of Kazuya's requirements, but due to fairly incompatible personalities and Chizuru's line of work, not all requirements will be met. Chizuru will need to travel frequently to be a famous actress, meaning Kazuya will not be able to take over the family business, nor will he be able to have a large family, at least not unless Chizuru gives up on her actress dreams. Even then Chizuru does not display affection the way Kazuya needs, this will cause him to cling to her even more, and at some point, her independent personality will need to push him away, leaving him to feel rejected. Chizuru would allow Ruka to hang around, and would encourage Kazuya to maintain his friendship with Sumi. Chizuru would also try to extend an olive branch to Mami, but I don't see that lasting.
Chizuru fulfills Kazuya's 1, 3, & 6 requirements (may fulfill requirement 2 as well)
c. Kazuya x Ruka
Ruka fulfills all of Kazuya's requirements for happiness. The more she can be there for Kazuya the happier she is. She is affectionate, emotionally intelligent (something rare for this series), emotionally available, and would even allow Kazuya to support Chizuru in her future endeavors, and would lend a hand to help Chizuru. Ruka would allow Kazuya to keep up with Sumi, but would not allow Mami anywhere near Kazuya. In addition, Ruka has displayed an strong sense of perception, intuition, and is a shrewd negotiator, making her of value to the Kinoshita family business. Ruka has also expressed great interest in starting a family.
Ruka fulfills Kazuya's 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, & 6 requirements.
d. Kazuya x Sumi
Sumi almost fulfills all of Kazuya's requirements, and those that she does fulfill, she excels in. Sumi is super smart, and would make an invaluable asset to Kazuya's family business. Sumi is a hard worker, and with Kazuya by her side, would overcome her only weakness, her crippling social anxiety. Her only drawback is that she seems too reserved, conservative perhaps, and may not desire any children, although she would likely compromise with Kazuya and have a single child.
Sumi fulfills Kazuya's 1, 2, 3, 5, & 6 requirements

Operating under the assumption that Kazuya falls in love with whoever he is paired with, along with the goal of maximizing overall happiness in all characters, Ruka becomes the best choice.

Spoiler

> "...you need to reread this manga."
Stop trying to gaslight me, it's not workiing, and it isn't cool.

 

[Strategistpro]

@startwindowsnormally

Rukas trauma isn't anywhere near chizurus, I can't imagine equating a slow beating heart to losing all your loved ones. Also chozuru hasn't committed borderline crimes like ruka has. I disagree that chizuru is manipulating kazuya. She never knew how he felt about her before 174, so she didn't know the impact some of the stuff she said to kazuya had. And kazuya wasn't much better eiher since he kept telling chizuru that there relationship is a lie and she should tell her grandma such. Talk about mixed signals. After 174 chizurus behaviour around kazuya is alot different. Shes treating him more like a love interest. Visiting him to invite him to a party, check in on him, making sure he isn't lonely. You say chizuru is incompatible with kazuya but she and kazuya complete and support eachother. Theres noone better for them than each other. Meanwhile ruka and kazuya are actually incompatible. Kazuya hasn't developed an inch of feeling for her in the last year despite all her efforts. This is incompatible.
Also you should check out the new chapter, as what chizuru says debunks alot of what you think about her.

Anyway though I see were not going to agree on this. The only reason I said you should reread the manga is because your clearly not understanding what the authors intent here is and your not understanding chizurus character. At the end of the day, the author is trying to portray kazuya and chizuru as the better pairing, and ruka as the toxic one and authors intent trumps your interpretation. We all know chizuru is going to win in the end so its useless to debate this. Additionally more people like and ship chizuru and there's a reason for that.

 

[startwindowsnormally]

@Strategistpro
So you're going to ignore Ruka's mental and emotional trauma that resulted from her abnormal upbringing? The author communicated pretty clearly that she suffers mentally and emotionally due to her physical condition, but you have elected to ignore that. She's been going on for years with nobody to support her, or to connect with her.

Collapsed for space:

Spoiler

I'd be willing to forgive Chizuru if she was raised in a environment that was unsupportive of her dream, or at the very least, emotionally unavailable. Instead we know that everyone around Chizuru gave her their unwavering support, and were emotionally available/supportive. Chizuru is a very independent person, and she has mistaken isolation for independence. She selfishly isolated herself, not because the pain was so great, but because it was inconvenient to deal with. This self imposed environment has cultivated a nihilistic outlook on herself.

As for Chizuru knowing about Kazuya's emotions, I can provide objective evidence to the contrary: Ruka during her break down mentions that Kazuya likes Chizuru, to which Chizuru blushes. Yamori tells Chizuru that Kazuya likes her, not as a friend, but as a woman. Kazuya tells Chizuru about his "perfect girlfriend" during the Girlfriend and the Boyfriend arc, and we know that Chizuru knew who Kazuya was referring to during their day drinking fiasco.

As for Chizuru's crimes, we have falsifying work times/records, breaking company contract on multiple occasions, failure to report sexual assault twice, leading Kazuya on, manipulating Kazuya for her own gain as not to disappoint her grandmother, gaslighting Ruka twice.

Chizuru takes Kazuya to a party and allows herself to be swept away. Chizuru isn't a good **character (yet), she's a good plot device, she lacks intuition, and has no initiative. She's been mostly an unwilling actor* throughout this series, and mostly serves as a convenient way to introduce drama, or to indirectly inspire Kazuya to grow, while directly having a negative effect on his character growth. Ruka, for all her faults, inspires growth in Kazuya, has helped him to better connect with and express his emotions, and more recently, educated him on how to respond to his emotions in terms of physical acts. She also has cultivated some feelings in Kazuya besides lust, just see the end of The Girlfriend and the Promise arc where Ruka and Kazuya are just walking hand-in-hand, Kazuya expresses that Ruka is "sublime" and wishes to hold, and be held by Ruka. Besides, we know from Kazuya that he could fall in love with Ruka if he gave her a chance, see The Girlfriend and the Ex arc. We also know that Kazuya can move on from Chizuru, just as he has moved on from Mami.

I should once again reiterate, you don't have to like Ruka, hate her to your hearts content. However, don't let your hate blind you from seeing objectively, as you've been excusing Chizuru's misdeeds while lambasting Ruka. Ruka is by all metrics, excluding love at the time of writing, objectively the best suited for Kazuya, with Sumi being a very close second. I'm not saying that the plot should drop Chizuru and go to Ruka, that would be a tragedy. What I have said several times in the past is that the way to a healthy relationship between Ruka and Kazuya is for Chizuru and Kazuya to date first.

*I should add that in the most recent chapter, Chizuru has finally shown some initiative, which is nice, still doesn't detract from my argument. New chapter is nice overall, hopefully Chizuru will finally tell Kazuya how she feels.
** I do understand the authors intent, as well as Chizuru's character. Chizuru's character has been poorly executed up to this point, this may change in the future, but at the moment of writing, Chizuru acts less like a character, and more like a plot device.

 

[Strategistpro]

@startwindowsnormally

Alright so chizuru isn't a good fit for kazuya because she's apparently wronged him(even tho she didn't and she's only ever been the best part of his life till know, kazuyas own words not mine) but ruka is a good match cause she's open about her feelings even tho she's also wronged him. If your going to make this argument atleast be consistent. Ruka is 100% not the best fit here, she's the worst for kazuya and the story has made this clear several times. As for the whole kazuya falling in love with her bit, if this is the case why hasn't he even grown an inch of feelings for her all this time. A whole year mind you. Each and every ruka arc portays why ruka and kazuya won't work, and his feelings for chizuru only become more apparent. Once again I repeat that chizuru hasn't done anything to hurt kazuya like ruka has. Shes been the best part of kazuyas life and the most important and supportive person to him. The only thing is that she's oblivous and dense to his feelings, which cause problems for both parties. Ruka is only ever a selfish and childish brat to him.

Also lol at chizuru being a plot device. The story is literally centered around her. The author has states that this is a story about kazuya and chizuru and the other characters are just went to support that. If anyone's a plot device its ruka. The fact that you think all this proves you have no understanding of the story thus far. Its a story about 2 broken people finding the person they need the most and falling in love though mutual support.

 

[startwindowsnormally]

@Strategistpro

Alright so chizuru isn't a good fit for kazuya because she's apparently wronged him(even tho she didn't and she's only ever been the best part of his life till know, kazuyas own words not mine) but ruka is a good match cause she's open about her feelings even tho she's also wronged him.

You're putting words in my mouth, I never said that. What I have said is that Chizuru has faults that you're either ignoring, or unjustly excusing. My point has been that both Ruka and Chizuru have serious faults, and these faults don't disqualify them from being good/bad for Kazuya. What makes them good/bad for a person is their personalities, compatibilities stemming from interests and what they desire from life, and the emotion known as "love".

Collapsed for space:

Spoiler

I also never said Kazuya fell in love with Ruka, but rather he that his feeling towards her developed a bit.

Shes been the best part of kazuyas life and the most important and supportive person to him. Ruka is only ever a selfish and childish brat to him.

Once again we have you selectively choosing what you want to acknowledge, and what you wish to disregard based upon your preferences, despite me providing ample objective evidence to the contrary. Perhaps you should return to reddit where they will puppet your ideas?

Its a story about 2 broken people finding the person they need the most and falling in love though mutual support.

I understand this, but I also think it's fair I get to criticize the obvious downfalls of the FMC, who hardly acts like a character at all, and point out how the author is show casing a "ideal" relationship between two characters, that in reality is the farthest thing from healthy and is just as toxic as Ruka at her worst.

 

[Strategistpro]

@startwindowsnormally

Ruka and kazuya do not have compatable personalities. One is selfless, passive and kind the other is selfish, aggressive and toxic. Also kazuya and chizurus relationship is not toxic at all. They bring out the best in each other, hence why the author refers to them as the ideal couple. The fact that you fail to understand this shows you have no understanding of the series. You also fail to understand the Chizuru. But I guess this is to be expected from a ruka fan, you people always bash chizuru cause your salty. As I said previously theres no point in arguing about this further, cause we're not going to see eye to eye. Have fun reading the rest of this series while not liking the FMC and the main pairing.

 

[startwindowsnormally]

@Strategistpro
I'm not a Ruka fan, I'm a Sumi fan.
Chizuru brings out the best in Kazuya because he view's her as the best. She has done very little directly to bring out his best, in fact she has more often hindered his progress. If Kazuya and Chizuru are compatible, please detail Chizuru's personality, and how it's compatible with Kazuya's with supporting evidence.

I believe you've failed to overcome your bias, and have allowed it to consume you. But I should thank you, you've become a shining example of the stereotypical Chizuru stan, ignoring other's valid point, being aggressively hostile, and touting some misplaced sense of superiority.

I'm honestly disappointed, your opening remarks showed promise, and I hoped to garner some viewpoint or evidence that I had not already taken into account, but my hopes were quickly dashed.

 

[Bestgirl_Ruka]

🤔

Spoiler

Ruka>>>Chizuru

 

[MrWaffleTheWaffle]

hey guys, all waifu wars aside: how the hell does the lottery in page 2 work??? I literally have no idea what lines I should follow and which ones I shouldn't...
EDIT: Yeah, ok. I'm stupid

 

[Fancylamp]

FINALLY A GREAT CHAPTER AGAIN THSNK YOU

 

[Schmitty]

Is Umi-kun Mami's brother? Did I miss something? They both look really alike.

 

[chad_manga_enjoyer]

Holy shit people are actually fighting over their waifus LMFAO

 

[etriuswimbleton]

two guys over here flooding the comment section to justify their waifus.

kind of sad. and im over here wondering when did this phrase "I dont not like you" came? I dont remember what chapter was it (nvm found it)

And there goes the classic tsundere coming out of Mizuhara. what a sight. And finally some wholesome interaction with them both that doesnt scream "they have no chemistry at all!"

need more of that.

 

[HowDoYouSpellIt]

Yall talking bout waifus and you ain't even bringing in the grandma, tf are you guys doing😂