The fact that we're comparing a chapter 1 Kazuya vs a chapter 180 Ruka shows the obvious problem with her character, she hasn't developed. I'll have to wait for the actual chapter but I would probably agree with you that Kazuyas actions on that ONE chapter were worse than Rukas here. That being said, Kazuya was a terrible person back then so being better than that is not much of a feat. Moreover Kazuya actaully developed into a better person. Ruka did not. Thats why she's this way in chapter 180.
It's not about the literal statement. The fact that someone has made a comparison like that shows that her character cannot and will not change; Shitty attitude, sore loser, wound salter, and a control freak.
@kolje : He's talking about Mami because she knows his and Mizuhara's rental relationship and both of them are worried about what she might say to Kazuya's grandmother. The fact that Kaz and Mizuhara are more real girlfriend/boyfriend at this point doesn't matter with Mami because the two of them think she knows them as a rental relationship.
Of course, the real reason Mami is a problem is because she is a total scumbag and is getting chummy with Kaz's grandma to plant a knife in his and Mizuhara's backs.
and if the "Next time on Dragon Ball Zee" text at the end of ch. 180 is an indicative, Mami will realize Kazuya and Chizuru crossed the rental boundaries and will not only tell grandma Nagomi about Chizuru's activity, but also rat Chizuru out to the agency (Diamond).
Ironically, that will make Mami shoot herself in the foot, bc if Chizuru gets fired, Chizuru will have the road free from a major roadblock and will have the road clear for an official relationship with Kazuya (and save him if Kazuya starts to experience hell, something mentioned below this sentence).
What should worry the most is Ruka's personality flip after being dumped by Kazuya. Unlike Chizuru's case, Kazuya might be fubar if Ruka, on a scorned impulse, plays victim at the campus, slanders him and the ruckus overlaps with the shit fling Mami will cause at the Kinoshita family.
Indeed, if that's what chapter 180 shows. (Color me suspicious, when it comes to the authority of what people write on Reddit. (^_~))
I was pretty floored by the notion anyone would say the opposite, because I thought it was a pretty softball comparison -- but you're right, a comparison does imply they're even in the same league.
Out of all the reactions Ruka has had in the past, this one has to be the most understandable as although Kazuya may not be invested in their relationship at all, Ruka is, she's bet EVERYTHING on him, and Kazuya could not have chosen a more inopportune moment. This is right on the heels of Ruka communicating that she is stressed out, and needs some deeper emotional connection with Kazuya like the heart-to-heart they had during the sleepover arc where Kazuya told her that he was happy knowing that Ruka liked him. This is not to justify Ruka's actions, but I do think we need to view things from Ruka's perspective.
I think @S0viet_Noob has locked onto something when he mentioned that somebodies actions during a traumatic event is not indicative of their true character. For Ruka, this is definitely a traumatic event as she has put 200% stock in Kazuya mentally, physically, emotionally, and financially. Just look at everything she's endured for him:
1. Gave up a cushy rental girlfriend job (that paid really well)
2. Took on a new, more difficult job that pays less
3.Made constant concessions for Kazuya's sake (as well as his family's)
4. Assisted Kazuya in his endeavors to aid Chizuru
5. Was constantly reassured that by Kazuya and Chizuru that they were not cheating on her, even gaslighting her on a few occasions, and they vehemently denied getting closer.
Given that Kazuya has also been leading her on*, and that their relationship was improving, the immediate fallout of Ruka cursing Kazuya out becomes a bit more understandable as any bad break-up usually hurts one person more than the other, and they act out of character. That being said, I reserve the right to be wrong, as I don't know what the long term fallout from Ruka will be. While we can make a case for Ruka cursing Kazuya out, if Ruka does something truly horrendous like getting Kazuya fired from his job out of spite, or saving Kazuya's job on the condition that he continue the relationship, the argument for that is weak. At best, one could point out Kazuya leading her on for such a long time and failing to ease her into breaking things off, but like I said, a weak argument.
*see Ch 46, Kazuya basically tells her he wants to make things official, Kazuya bears at least one-third of the blame in the trial relationship since that moment on
As for Ruka being worse than Kazuya in Ch 1, that's a hard claim to make (at time of writing, future actions may prove me wrong), as Kazuya knew what he was getting into and should've had no emotional attachment, there was a legally binding contract, and he went to a rental website. Ruka has actual emotional investment, and for reasons stated above, her reaction to him breaking up with her seem a bit more understandable compared to Kazuya making a public fool of Chizuru because she did her job. Adding to that, Ruka has had zero emotional or mental support, much less reprieve, and her continually sacrificing her happiness for Kazuya's sake would only build stress and wear down on her. Versus Kazuya who has had support from Chizuru, Sumi, Ruka, Mini, and Chizuru's grandmother.
Oddly enough, that essay was one of the reasons I decided to start posting as it made several assertions that analyzed Ruka in a vacuum. First thing I need to point out is that the scanlation team (who have done a great job) have said themselves that don't like Ruka and this person's bias definitely played a role in the making of that post. Ruka definitely knows the score, I believe I echoed similar sentiments in my earlier posts, she is desperately fighting for a shot at Kazuya's heart, and is improving herself to better reach him. As for Ruka using "I'm your girlfriend" to get Kazuya to agree to what she wants, let's give context to the event in which she's used this phrase. The first time it is used is right before Kazuya's birthday, in which Ruka was just fine with not being able to see Kazuya on his birthday, at least he wasn't going to be slinking around with Chizuru, oh wait, that's exactly what happened. Second time, Ruka's birthday, Ruka was lied to by Mini, missing out on the extra time she was promised she'd get to have with Kazuya. Additionally, Chizuru and Kazuya both look like they just got done with a lover's retreat, and that's not Ruka jumping to conclusions, other people thought the same too. Finally, in Ch 168-169, leading up to the "hot springs" arc, Ruka is stressed, and acts way out of line.
If you take Ruka as a sum of all her evils, of course she's going to look like an aggressive courtier, but that's the thing, you'd have to discount her positives, sacrifices, and mindset. Ruka is starving for any
genuine deeper emotional connection with Kazuya, just look at how she glows when Kazuya tells her that he was happy knowing that Ruka liked him, and that he found her extremely attractive. That was the last time Kazuya gave her any genuinely deeper emotional compliment, and she's been running off of that for a long time.
As for the use of physical touching, I believe I've repeatedly said in the past that this is toxic, but it's a point she has been working on to remedy. Just look at how she's been deescalating her strength and usage throughout the series. During her birthday arc, she remarks "Did I overdo it?" in reference to asking Kazuya to apply her sunscreen (touch her). She follows up with froyo, something to help cool both of them down. During the hotsprings, other parts of her toxicity flair up, but she doesn't ask for any physical contact at all.
Reiterating myself here, Kazuya telling her that their relationship is over at quite an inopportune time when she is quite stressed, effectively ripping her heart out may change her character, but that has yet to be seen.
Something to consider, you can't go to a desperate person, wave exactly what they want right in front of them, tell them you're going to give it to them, and then run away and act like you never said a word like Kazuya did in Ch 46 and expect the desperate person to be alright. My case that Ruka and Kazuya are the most compatible for each other I believe still stands on its own merits, unless the traumatic break-up changes Ruka's character. The break-up could very well change her character as the only good thing in her life has been removed, and her heart effectively ripped out.
My mission never was to justify Ruka's actions, but rather to bring to light Chizuru's own dirt, which @WhisCalifa69 conveniently left out:
Spoilers for Ch 180
Kazuya goes to confess to Chizuru at a market, Chizuru runs away, once again ducking Kazuya's confession, meaning she did it on purpose the first time too.
I wonder what Kazuya's reaction will be to having Chizuru, once again, reject him. Could it temporarily crush Kazuya's resolve, causing him to temporarily seek solace with Ruka? I doubt it, given that Kazuya's resolve seems particularly strong this time around, but Reiji has a tendency to subvert expectations.
Ultimately, just because Ruka put in a lot of work doesn't mean she deserves a chance. Kazuya simply does not love her, its really not a hard thing to understand and she'll have to understand that too. She can't just keep him locked up as her boyfriend, if he wants to end it then thats that. Rem, Yui, Onodera and Miku all tried really hard for their respective MCs, but all got a slap in the face. The same thing will inevitably happen to Ruka, this is just the unfortunate reality of her character archetype.
Moreover, Rukas whole plot line in this story is that love cant be forced, and so naturally people would want to see growth in her character (aka her realizing this) but that never happened so its really annoying and frustrating to see.
debate about whether Kazuya is being a callous asshole to Ruka or not aside, an ironic yet fun fact about ch. 180: it begins with a 6-day timeskip.
So, Kazuya broke with Ruka during their anniversary. What a convenient timing lmao.
I believe that Ruka has already experienced that which I affectionately refer to as the "Rem Moment". People have made comparison images between Rem's rejection moment, and Ruka's realization at the end of the New Year Arc. As for character archetype, beware relying on that too much in this series, Reiji seems to like breaking those.
Love can't be forced is a good message, which is why I reiterate ad nauseam that the road to a healthy Ruka and Kazuya relationship is through Chizuru and Kazuya dating first.
Wow, I shouldn't surprised by this, as Kazuya has displayed a shocking lack of tact and timing throughout the series, but man do I feel justified saying Kazuya chose an inconvenient time. This is levels of evil boyfriend out of a soap opera or some B-list movie. Who breaks up with someone on their anniversary?
My guy, if you still think Ruka has a chance, especially after chap 180 and 179, thats a problem. You are one of the very, very few people I have seen argue that Ruka is the ideal pairing. But its time to accept it won't happen.
You can't write romance without showing how the characters feelings develop and how there relationship has evolved. This has not happened with Ruka and Kazuya so it would not create a good ending even if she did have a chance. In fact Sumi and Kazuya has done this better then Ruka and Kazuya. Chizuru and Kazuya remains the only pairing that has been developed and evolved, romantically.
@Strategistpro
I didn't say Ruka had a chance, once again, you're putting words in my mouth. Of course I'm one of the few people that will argue Ruka and Kazuya are the ideal pairing, I'm also one of the few people to point out Chizuru's flaws instead of idolizing her.
The problem between me and you is that I can present a subject, you ask questions, to which I give my answers and back it with evidence from the series. You then do a mental loop around my answer and evidence, often failing to address it, and within a post or two, you ask the same questions all over again. I will refer you to my posts I've made in the past for your answers. I hope my detailing on compatibility finds refuge within you, as it has uses outside this series.
The core message of the series is good, but the components that tell the story just aren't well suited to the story that is being told. Like having five apples you want to convert into some confection. You want to make chocolate covered apples because you want to treat yourself on your cheat day, but three of the five apples are soft and slightly mushy, with only two being fit to make your desired confection. Does that mean the three apples are trash? No, they are better suited to be made into a smoothie or a fruit salad, but they would make poor chocolate covered apples. The only two good apples in this series are Sumi, because she is a hair's diameter away from being perfect, and Mami, who is cut out to be an interesting bad guy and is set to fulfill that roll admirably. The others have a good core, but the surrounding components are not well suited at all.
Ruka is not a victim. Stop putting her in the "I've been done dirty! AAAAAAA-" spot.
She knew and knows what she is and was doing. If she didn't, do you think that she would have done the things she supposedly did next chapter?
Her character is being wasted. I wanted to see her develop. I wanted to see her be a better character. She does NOT fit the Rem or Onodera role because she didn't even try to. She forced herself on Kazuya multiple times; With her knowing this, wouldn't she know that the love isn't there?
Kazuya is not a bad boyfriend. He agreed because something was on the line. I won't say it was anything generally threatening or important, but it was something. With each time to strike, Ruka manipulated him to do things. She also created competition when it wasn't there. Ruka overall was toxic. I won't say Kazuya is getting of scot free for dumping Ruka on the anniversary and lack of prior context, but Ruka is still not a victim. Ruka has been shown here to be a bitch, and she should've taken a hint a long time ago. You can debate me on that.
I'd enjoy if you tell me where I'm wrong
By the way, I've never seen anyone flaunt over Chizuru as you say people do. The closest thing I've seen to that are people complaining about other characters in turn making Chizuru the best fit (which I've done before)
I've not been claiming Ruka is a victim, I've been giving context where necessary, and pointing out where there is no context, just her acting a fool, all while condemning her misdeeds.
She knew and knows what she is and was doing. If she didn't, do you think that she would have done the things she supposedly did next chapter?
There are times when she knew what she was doing, and other times she was acting on impulse, see the Kazuya's birthday arc, and other times she knew exactly what she was doing, see Ruka's birthday/hot springs arc. As for the things she does next chapter (actual spolier warning)
getting angry after the person she loves effectively rends her heart from her chest? On their anniversary? Correct me if I'm wrong, but that would make most people mad, and we've all seen people get mad and curse somebody over a lot less.
If you've not gotten mad and cursed someone out before please let me know so I can learn from you.
Her character is being wasted. I wanted to see her develop. I wanted to see her be a better character.
I did too. In fact, I believe that this was one of my talking points during my first post, and may subsequent posts there after. Reiji has seemingly neglected Ruka's development, and has endangered one of his strongest characters, and the fans second most favorite character. If Reiji ruins Ruka's character, why would anybody want to read a Ruka spin-off? What could he do that would make anybody reasonably believe that Ruka is capable of change in a spin-off, if we don't see evidence of it in the main series? This would also potentially have effects on a Mami spin-off series, as why would anybody believe that Reiji would handle Mami any better than Ruka? Essentially, if Reiji is a smart business man, he will develop Ruka more, and it doesn't matter if he goes the route of Ruka giving up, or her not turning into a "bitch", either way will work fine so long as he doesn't ruin the character.
... wouldn't she know that the love isn't there[?]
I meant to infer that his actions where on par of that of a bad boyfriend from a soap opera or B-list movie, not that he was a bad boyfriend. Sorry if I communicated this poorly.
With each time to strike, Ruka manipulated him to do things
I would agree with you, but after Kazuya basically confessed to Ruka, right before pulling the rug right from under her, I feel Ruka felt like she had a chance, and she's been chasing that chance ever since. If you recall, she doesn't know the circumstances surrounding that event. All she knows is that one day Kazuya basically confesses, and then acts like nothing happened.
A bitch who constantly made sacrifices for Kazuya, Chizuru, and the Kinoshita's sake? Ruka has done bad things, but isn't a bad person. Same can be said for Chizuru who endlessly leads Kazuya on among other things, but I digress. Ruka's certainly not a victim, but she's not 100% guilty either. That being said, this break-up may push her into desperation, and from that into "psycho-bitch" as the one good thing in her life is being effectively removed, if so, this is a change in character for Ruka, not the Ruka I've been debating.
Truer words are rarely spoken in these threads, when it comes to anything about the manga.
The humans populating the threads are responsible for plenty of faults ourselves, but Reiji owns the faults that stem directly from the manga (vs the ones that stem from how we react to it).
