Katainaka no Ossan, Kensei ni Naru: Tada no Inaka no Kenjutsu Shihan Datta noni, Taisei shita Deshi-tachi ga Ore wo Hottekurenai Ken - Vol. 5 Ch. 20 …

[dbgecko]

Kinda an interesting change from the novel. IIRC he was explicitly asked by Lucy and the priest to sneak into the church and kidnap the bishop to bring him in for questioning, since he's technically a civilian and they couldn't tie his actions to the knights or the magic guild.

 

[Gunlord500]

Fantastic chapter! Thanks for the translations, Galaxy Degen. This is a really engaging manga, even though as others have said the 'evil church' isn't the most original antagonist we've ever seen, the writer is pulling off the story with enough earnestness and panache that it's still caught my interest.

In reference to the 'evil church' I think it might be more complex than that in this case. The bishop guy seems to be evil, sure, but the priest guy seems to be a genuine believer and concerned to root out corruption in his church, explicitly in the name of his God. So it's not like the church is pure evil, or (necessarily) based on a lie, as, say, the Ajora church was in Final Fantasy Tactics. It's rather there are good people and bad people in it, not unlike real life.

 

[PrivatePublic]

Japan decided to get rid of the Christian church back in the day, in the 17th century, executing every single believer who didn't renounce their faith. Probably ever since then, there has been such an underlying current that makes it easy for Japanese authors to use a Christian look-alike religion as a villainous entity in fiction.

Considering what the vestiges of Christianity in Japan were folded into (Happy Science), not hard to see why they make an easy target for derision.

 

[dankenglish]

Christianity is the easiest religion to model after since it's large, organized, and recorded. You tend to live after speaking against it, too, which makes airing grievances easier.

But damn, everyone's got a sword. This world is more enthusiastic about 2A than the States.

 

[Tahaku]

Again... Which annoyed me to no FCKING END.
I fcking get it in real life that yes the church or any FORM OF RELIGIOUS INSTITUTIONS can be viewed as evil due to their shady ways. I am also so livid at the fact that it does not matter it is made up of religion in fiction. It stills irks me to no end. Give me ONE GOOD RELIGIOUS INSTITUTION THAT WHILE YES THEY'RE SHADY FOR A GOOD REASON BUT THEY'RE STILL VIEW AS THE GOOD GUYS IN THE STORY.... like gosh damn. it

There's plenty where the majority is good. The problem is "power corrupts, absolutely" is a thing that happens very easily. Especially when it's in a place where people have the "authority" of god behind what they say.

I think a good example for what you want is The seven prince is a magic nerd. The villain in that one was a high member of the church, but not from corruption, but he lost faith in their god. Aside from that, the church was never bad.

 

[Wushizzle]

Next chapter is going to FUCK, I can feel it. Unless it's 66% Myui walking around seeing shit and 33% badass sword fight, that'll be a bit of a bummer but still this fight should be AWESOME.

 

[Neliths]

Christianity is the easiest religion to model after since it's large, organized, and recorded. You tend to live after speaking against it, too, which makes airing grievances easier.

But damn, everyone's got a sword. This world is more enthusiastic about 2A than the States.

It has a very clear hierachy with politcal intrigue and such inside it.
Other religion are usually super local with maybe one dude that people refers to in their comunity/country.
Also it has some very nice aesthetic that people love to use just for the sake of it.

 

[Kshatria]

how come, a shitty religion gets that big?
i mean come on, you pray to DEAD person?? he's not even a saint, not someone holy. even those miracles are easily fabricated
just a swordsman??? yeah right

but again, even real life cult are like that and they have some believers too. although not as big as this, it's still dumbfound me

 

[SilverSour]

Man fanatics sure is scary

 

[Giga]

Not really.


Sure. Not like any other large organization full of corrupt people and useful idiots certainly doesn't exist.

But to actually make a point. Just because there are corrupt people in church doesn't mean the religion is bad. Pretty sure when those scandals were exposed actual church goers did not condone their actions.

The funny thing is that people here are giving the Sven faith the same carelessly imperceptive treatment they are Christianity (as if we don't know which religion we're talking about, here): just as one powerful and corrupt leader of the Sven faith along with his accomplice subordinates are being equated with the entire Sven faith, so are they taking the corruption of individual officials within the Christian faith (even worse, within one denomination thereof--the Roman Catholic Church is only one such denomination of multiple; it just happens to be the largest, wealthiest, and thereby most conspicuous) and branding the entirety of Christianity as guilty of the same.

Guilt by association; a popular crutch for the cognitively lazy.

To add a little to what's been said, positions of trust and authority naturally attract those that would abuse them. The reason you see so many cases of domestic violence among police or predication among priests is because they are positions where they would have access to their would-be victims while having very little scrutiny or oversite. Then, a theocracy is built exclusively on positions of trust. The people would not scrutinize the church leaders or question doctrine, so people with bad intentions naturally move in.

Of course, that's not quite the case here. Dudes just too nuts to know the difference a revival miracle and completed necroma-.........IS there a difference between?

That's a pretty good question, I think. I would imagine that it depends on just how complete that necromantic conjuration is, but I also think that there are certain characteristic differences. One is the nature of the resurrection: necromancy just raises a revenant for whatever purpose (as the term originally meant, to inquire of the revenant) using necromantic power; the undead--however undead-like they may or may not be--are still not alive, just mobile and capable of cognition. On the other hand, proper revival means restoring life to a decedent; that person, in keeping with the etymology of the word, lives once again.

Thus, I think the only way to tell them apart is to detect life--or lack thereof.

 

[Meridis]

That's a pretty good question, I think. I would imagine that it depends on just how complete that necromantic conjuration is, but I also think that there are certain characteristic differences. One is the nature of the resurrection: necromancy just raises a revenant for whatever purpose (as the term originally meant, to inquire of the revenant) using necromantic power; the undead--however undead-like they may or may not be--are still not alive, just mobile and capable of cognition. On the other hand, proper revival means restoring life to a decedent; that person, in keeping with the etymology of the word, lives once again.

Thus, I think the only way to tell them apart is to detect life--or lack thereof.

Thing is, I think a fully complete necromancy spell would both capture and use the intended soul and restore the body to a functioning state. There's also some confounding factors that might make this more uncertain that I don't remember if the manga mentions. Namely the nature of the church's miracles.
They label it differently and consider it special but its JUST magic. There is no sacred or demonic energy in this story, they're just magicians who put special importance on branches of magic associated with their legends. So it's entirely possible, and even likely, that the Bishop is right that the miracle could be done through necromancy even though he will fail to pull it off.

 

[Gunlord500]

I would imagine that it depends on just how complete that necromantic conjuration is

"Any sufficiently advanced necromancy is indistinguishable from light magic."

 

[Bigvoii]

ojisan is about to teach these young bucks how a real fight works

 

[Giga]

Thing is, I think a fully complete necromancy spell would both capture and use the intended soul and restore the body to a functioning state. There's also some confounding factors that might make this more uncertain that I don't remember if the manga mentions. Namely the nature of the church's miracles.

Even when I read the spoiler, I didn't grasp it--which meant that I was and am right to keep my mind on this interesting mental exercise.

That being said, I think so too of a necromantic resurrection--but the means and the end are still different, at least where the soul is concerned: you're still enjoining a soul to do as you bid. Also, I think revitalizing a dead body (especially if it requires healing) isn't within the scope of necromancy or the kind of resurrection associated with it. The alternative, meanwhile, is explicitly focused on those two things--revitalization and healing.

Then again, one could design a complete necromantic resurrection to involve the aforementioned revitalization and/or healing. At that point, the line between necromancy and light/healing magic and/or techniques is blurred--maybe that's what you were referring to.

"Any sufficiently advanced necromancy is indistinguishable from light magic."

Until the necromancer's removed from the equation.

 

[Meridis]

Even when I read the spoiler, I didn't grasp it--which meant that I was and am right to keep my mind on this interesting mental exercise.

That being said, I think so too of a necromantic resurrection--but the means and the end are still different, at least where the soul is concerned: you're still enjoining a soul to do as you bid. Also, I think revitalizing a dead body (especially if it requires healing) isn't within the scope of necromancy or the kind of resurrection associated with it. The alternative, meanwhile, is explicitly focused on those two things--revitalization and healing.

Then again, one could design a complete necromantic resurrection to involve the aforementioned revitalization and/or healing. At that point, the line between necromancy and light/healing magic and/or techniques is blurred--maybe that's what you were referring to.



Until the necromancer's removed from the equation.

mmm, however the distinction between them is what's hard to grasp in this story due to what was mentioned in the spoiler. Unlike other stories, there aren't fundamental forces to divide these kinds of magic. There isn't evil or undead energy that animates corpses nor is there life energy that gives life to the living. The body either functions or it does not. All magical processes are fundamentally the same, differentiated only by people's opinions on how they were used. The buffing magic that Sven used was only regular buffing magic before he became known as the god of a religion, as he was just a magic swordsman of the time. So it gets hard to tell when it stops being healing and starts being necromancy and vice versa.

 

[GridLite]

i'm so excited if he's gonna execute some insane art style and just killing them three simultaneously(but i doubt he's gonna kill them) or is he just gonna juggle three of them and just incapacitate them(which is a feat in itself if he could achieve that lmao)

 

[DedBeet]

Ew a blind fanatic

 

[aqdv25]

A lot of people saying the church is evil again in this manga but at just the start of the chapter, there is literally a priest from the same church the enemy bishop is in and the priest is literally investigating the bishop for any form of corruption and is openly working with the MCs team to take him down. This is more of a realistic representation actually, an organization that is international and has a lot of followers is bound to have some bad apples.

 

[kingdudman]

I regret missing this last month. damn this manga is good.

 

[ClemCa]

Here we go with the "Evil Church" trope. Fuck me.

"trope"
Art reflects reality, reality reflects art.