Kono Koi wo Hoshi ni wa Negawanai

[missSaturn]

This manga is amazing, thank you for the translation.

I love this story and I am looking forward to more.
Raw 21 was just released and I got some translations from ChatGPT for it. Nothing conclusive seems to be decided there, can't wait for it.

I may be one of the fews that don't want Eri and Fuyuki to end up together. Because it doesn't seem very mentally healthy the way things are going. But it's a manga, so who knows?!

 

[tattoBarthel]

I love this manga, in a very sad way.
Slice of life and Joseis are usually super complex because the explore the emotional complexity of humans and this relationship is super complex.
Eri seems pretty autistic and definitely in the aro spectrum with a very unhealthy dependency of Fuyuki.
Fuyuki is the kind of lesbian that obsessed over a person and not knowing what to do gets in self-destructive mode.

The worst part is that is actually pretty realistic. Eri will probably date Fuyuki in a desperate attempt for her love and attention, but will never reciprocate romantic feelings, because she can't feel them. Fuyuki will accept ANYTHING Eri is willing to give her as long as she stays with her. Both will enter a destructive relationship out of desperation, and a codependent relationship they can't short out.

I honestly feel that this kind of mangas don't enter the Yuri/GL category but more like an LGBTQ representation category (i have read a few) Because is more about the internal journey and emocional complexity than the lesbians relationship itself. The gayness gives this an other complexity layer, but in the end I feel the character development lies elsewhere, not in sexuality itself.

 

[KissyKissyOwO]

I'm loving it, it's a pretty realistic portrayal of girls navigating their sexuality (so far) and refreshing from other GLs I've read. the subtle writing is soo good, even the panels with almost nothing on it speak so much. i don't think it's bait and the love seems actually mutual, but i know the author is known for tragic stories, so ill keep it at that until we have more (but this comment section badly needed a positive one so..)

I was thinking the same thing! I just caught up and now im crying cause it hit a bit close to home especially the last few chapters. I'm not sure where the hate from everyone else is coming from tho. Definitely gonna check out more work from the author

 

[Prismatic-chan]

I love this manga, in a very sad way.
Slice of life and Joseis are usually super complex because the explore the emotional complexity of humans and this relationship is super complex.
Eri seems pretty autistic and definitely in the aro spectrum with a very unhealthy dependency of Fuyuki.
Fuyuki is the kind of lesbian that obsessed over a person and not knowing what to do gets in self-destructive mode.

The worst part is that is actually pretty realistic. Eri will probably date Fuyuki in a desperate attempt for her love and attention, but will never reciprocate romantic feelings, because she can't feel them. Fuyuki will accept ANYTHING Eri is willing to give her as long as she stays with her. Both will enter a destructive relationship out of desperation, and a codependent relationship they can't short out.

I honestly feel that this kind of mangas don't enter the Yuri/GL category but more like an LGBTQ representation category (i have read a few) Because is more about the internal journey and emocional complexity than the lesbians relationship itself. The gayness gives this an other complexity layer, but in the end I feel the character development lies elsewhere, not in sexuality itself.

you read too deep into it.
the main girl loves women, and she loves one girl in particular.
this particular girl might love her back ..
so we are talking about a yuri story here, first and foremost, the LGBTQ stuff is secondary here, the japanese don't handle things the way that westerners do, after all.

 

[holicastral]

eehhhh... i rate this one ski__di toilet level, too similar with one manga but i forgot the name (im not a angst fan)
plot is something i've seen before more than once in many ways so to me its just ok (7/10, mid but not as the slang for calling something shit or whatever it means now), art is very soft and nice tho (9/10, got its charm and looks very neat and emotional)
and no this is not a representation manga, its pure angst for the sake of angst with some tropes that fit for further... angst, of course if you for some reason see yourself in any character from a angst manga you're either sad or had sad times and you feel better by associating yourself in what you like to read, if you do thats quite normal for those on the spectrum
i could see myself in eri if i wanted, comparing my fears and how i struggle to love and much more to her (im not into that myself however), if it makes you happy go ahead and enjoy it as you wish to, but its likely not gonna end up as in your vision (seen that happen before just for people to be disappointed)

 

[leviadragon]

you read too deep into it.
the main girl loves women, and she loves one girl in particular.
this particular girl might love her back ..
so we are talking about a yuri story here, first and foremost, the LGBTQ stuff is secondary here, the japanese don't handle things the way that westerners do, after all.

"Yuri story"

"LGBTQ themes less important... than the central relationship... which is a queer one"

Lolwut?

Setting aside for a moment the fact that Japan's history with both queer culture and the lives of queer individuals is just as multifaceted and Messy as the western world even if it is in different ways, ways that neither you nor I can speak to in any great depth, because we aren't part of Japan's Queer subculture or political liberation movements, this story is actively engaging with themes of societal pressures, biases and invisible defaults resulting in queer people ending up in heterosexual relationships that aren't right for them and struggling to even learn their own feelings, you're really going to pull the Orientalist card in implying that Japan somehow has a more "enlightened culture that does not make things political"?

If that isn't what you're low-key implying, then I have no idea what the hell you are, and in either case, that's fuckin' stupid on multiple levels.

 

[DumFck]

eri girl she bruised your arms let's not be stupid

 

[holicastral]

"Yuri story"

"LGBTQ themes less important... than the central relationship... which is a queer one"

Lolwut?

Setting aside for a moment the fact that Japan's history with both queer culture and the lives of queer individuals is just as multifaceted and Messy as the western world even if it is in different ways, ways that neither you nor I can speak to in any great depth, because we aren't part of Japan's Queer subculture or political liberation movements, this story is actively engaging with themes of societal pressures, biases and invisible defaults resulting in queer people ending up in heterosexual relationships that aren't right for them and struggling to even learn their own feelings, you're really going to pull the Orientalist card in implying that Japan somehow has a more "enlightened culture that does not make things political"?

If that isn't what you're low-key implying, then I have no idea what the hell you are, and in either case, that's fuckin' stupid on multiple levels.

comparing this to manga that do have queer main themes on a serious level makes it clear this is not one
its by consequence maybe but its not the point of the manga, the themes being used are to ground the story and make everything hit harder (just like many other books and stuff), not to represent anyone (not everything is coded like that)
yes japan does make things political, but in this case its not something that serious with political intent behind it, america does that too after all for example

i noticed however that you did read prismatic's comment too deeply, reading lines that arent there
he just said facts without any orientalist implications, elaborate on why you took his reply as stupid too, prismatic deserves that

 

[leviadragon]

comparing this to manga that do have queer main themes on a serious level makes it clear this is not one
its by consequence maybe but its not the point of the manga, the themes being used are to ground the story and make everything hit harder (just like many other books and stuff), not to represent anyone (not everything is coded like that)
yes japan does make things political, but in this case its not something that serious with political intent behind it, america does that too after all for example

i noticed however that you did read prismatic's comment too deeply, reading lines that arent there
he just said facts without any orientalist implications, elaborate on why you took his reply as stupid too, prismatic deserves that

"the Japanese don't handle things like westerners do" is a statement that has very few non-orientalist meanings, and those that do exist are so redundant as to not bear pointing out. Yes, other countries and cultures obviously do things differently in some ways, that's how humanity works. I in my house make dinner differently how how Steve does in his house just next door, that doesn't mean our environment is somehow so radically different as to mean that dinner doesn't exist in his place.

That is Prismatic's implication, that Japan is somehow SO DIFFERENT that it lacks its own LGBT+ scene, if his meaning was that their LGBT+ scene is different, then his statement would be so redundant as to lack any meaning. He also does not specify a specific point of difference, just the mere existence of "LGBT stuff" how can that be read in any way other than to create a fictional version of Japan that doesn't have specific communities or cultures?

It is obtuse in the extreme to take the bald statement of fact that "different countries have differences" in THIS context of someone attempting to erase queer themes from a subject that is about a queer relationship, it necessitates that any credible analysis of their comments identify them as a bad-faith actor.

That is the stupidity, to act as if a lesbian love story with multiple themes and tropes that have a looong history in queer storyelling is somehow "not about queerness" it's analogous to that meme of "in 2024 a videogame character will look directly at the screen and say: I am transgender, and motherfuckers on twitter will still be arguing that there is a specific history in Japan that we're not getting that makes this not trans" that's the level of rock-brained argument he was indulging in, and that's why it's Orientalist, invoking and romanticizing a culture he does not understand and has no claim to, to try to denigrate or dismiss things he doesn't like.

Do other manga have more in-depth queer themes? Sure, but that doesn't mean this one somehow 100% lacks them, that is a ridiculous statement, and yet seemed to be the exact kind of cognitive dissonance Prismatic was going for. Not every story needs to cover the complete history of queerness in order to "count" as having queer themes, indeed basically none could as a matter of bare practicality, because there is just so much queer history. Unless you're suggesting that in order to "count" for "srs bsns" queer themes it needs to be explicitly political, talking about historical crimes against queer folk or queer liberation? If that were the case, a lot of iconic queer media talking about queer joy would not count, and that's also a stupid thing to argue.

 

[Prismatic-chan]

"Yuri story"

"LGBTQ themes less important... than the central relationship... which is a queer one"

Lolwut?

Setting aside for a moment the fact that Japan's history with both queer culture and the lives of queer individuals is just as multifaceted and Messy as the western world even if it is in different ways, ways that neither you nor I can speak to in any great depth, because we aren't part of Japan's Queer subculture or political liberation movements, this story is actively engaging with themes of societal pressures, biases and invisible defaults resulting in queer people ending up in heterosexual relationships that aren't right for them and struggling to even learn their own feelings, you're really going to pull the Orientalist card in implying that Japan somehow has a more "enlightened culture that does not make things political"?

If that isn't what you're low-key implying, then I have no idea what the hell you are, and in either case, that's fuckin' stupid on multiple levels.

this is why i try not to bring up any LGBTQ stuff with you westerners.

this story is about one lesbian in particular, it does not involve any other groups, period.
don't turn a story into something more political than it really is.
the way you people go about LGBTQ is the same as calling call of duty games a direct political anti war campaign, when it isn't.
and it probably never will be.

this manga is yuri, it's about a lesbian protagonist, it's not about queers, not about transgenders, not about gay men.
i frequent japan, and i talk to alot of locals about alot of things, all over the country, don't just go and assume things falsely.

 

[holicastral]

"the Japanese don't handle things like westerners do" is a statement that has very few non-orientalist meanings, and those that do exist are so redundant as to not bear pointing out. Yes, other countries and cultures obviously do things differently in some ways, that's how humanity works. I in my house make dinner differently how how Steve does in his house just next door, that doesn't mean our environment is somehow so radically different as to mean that dinner doesn't exist in his place.

That is Prismatic's implication, that Japan is somehow SO DIFFERENT that it lacks its own LGBT+ scene, if his meaning was that their LGBT+ scene is different, then his statement would be so redundant as to lack any meaning. He also does not specify a specific point of difference, just the mere existence of "LGBT stuff" how can that be read in any way other than to create a fictional version of Japan that doesn't have specific communities or cultures?

It is obtuse in the extreme to take the bald statement of fact that "different countries have differences" in THIS context of someone attempting to erase queer themes from a subject that is about a queer relationship, it necessitates that any credible analysis of their comments identify them as a bad-faith actor.

That is the stupidity, to act as if a lesbian love story with multiple themes and tropes that have a looong history in queer storyelling is somehow "not about queerness" it's analogous to that meme of "in 2024 a videogame character will look directly at the screen and say: I am transgender, and motherfuckers on twitter will still be arguing that there is a specific history in Japan that we're not getting that makes this not trans" that's the level of rock-brained argument he was indulging in, and that's why it's Orientalist, invoking and romanticizing a culture he does not understand and has no claim to, to try to denigrate or dismiss things he doesn't like.

Do other manga have more in-depth queer themes? Sure, but that doesn't mean this one somehow 100% lacks them, that is a ridiculous statement, and yet seemed to be the exact kind of cognitive dissonance Prismatic was going for. Not every story needs to cover the complete history of queerness in order to "count" as having queer themes, indeed basically none could as a matter of bare practicality, because there is just so much queer history. Unless you're suggesting that in order to "count" for "srs bsns" queer themes it needs to be explicitly political, talking about historical crimes against queer folk or queer liberation? If that were the case, a lot of iconic queer media talking about queer joy would not count, and that's also a stupid thing to argue.

"the Japanese don't handle things like westerners do" is a statement that has very few non-orientalist meanings, and those that do exist are so redundant as to not bear pointing out. Yes, other countries and cultures obviously do things differently in some ways, that's how humanity works. I in my house make dinner differently how how Steve does in his house just next door, that doesn't mean our environment is somehow so radically different as to mean that dinner doesn't exist in his place.

That is Prismatic's implication, that Japan is somehow SO DIFFERENT that it lacks its own LGBT+ scene, if his meaning was that their LGBT+ scene is different, then his statement would be so redundant as to lack any meaning. He also does not specify a specific point of difference, just the mere existence of "LGBT stuff" how can that be read in any way other than to create a fictional version of Japan that doesn't have specific communities or cultures?

It is obtuse in the extreme to take the bald statement of fact that "different countries have differences" in THIS context of someone attempting to erase queer themes from a subject that is about a queer relationship, it necessitates that any credible analysis of their comments identify them as a bad-faith actor.

That is the stupidity, to act as if a lesbian love story with multiple themes and tropes that have a looong history in queer storyelling is somehow "not about queerness" it's analogous to that meme of "in 2024 a videogame character will look directly at the screen and say: I am transgender, and motherfuckers on twitter will still be arguing that there is a specific history in Japan that we're not getting that makes this not trans" that's the level of rock-brained argument he was indulging in, and that's why it's Orientalist, invoking and romanticizing a culture he does not understand and has no claim to, to try to denigrate or dismiss things he doesn't like.

Do other manga have more in-depth queer themes? Sure, but that doesn't mean this one somehow 100% lacks them, that is a ridiculous statement, and yet seemed to be the exact kind of cognitive dissonance Prismatic was going for. Not every story needs to cover the complete history of queerness in order to "count" as having queer themes, indeed basically none could as a matter of bare practicality, because there is just so much queer history. Unless you're suggesting that in order to "count" for "srs bsns" queer themes it needs to be explicitly political, talking about historical crimes against queer folk or queer liberation? If that were the case, a lot of iconic queer media talking about queer joy would not count, and that's also a stupid thing to argue.

being serious about it is making it the main theme, just that
this author made a manga with incest, is he representing that minority in any way? or is it just something a lot of manga have added in just to entice people more?
this is just a angst manga, everything queer in it is by consequence of it being both yuri and angst, in this case its not that deep

 

[leviadragon]

being serious about it is making it the main theme, just that
this author made a manga with incest, is he representing that minority in any way? or is it just something a lot of manga have added in just to entice people more?
this is just a angst manga, everything queer in it is by consequence of it being both yuri and angst, in this case its not that deep

So Angst caused by the relationship to the the world that being queer results in like that is somehow not a relevant theme? Also, what exactly makes something "serious"? That seems like it could be a sliding scale, is there a particular percentage point value of seriousness that needs to be reached for something to qualify as serious, how would you quantify that?

To say nothing of how subjective a read of seriousness can be, I for example think that it is a relatively serious theme to talk honestly about the pain caused by the kinds of difficult, messy situations brought up by this story, not everything needs to be high-stakes life and death stuff for it to matter

 

[leviadragon]

this is why i try not to bring up any LGBTQ stuff with you westerners.

this story is about one lesbian in particular, it does not involve any other groups, period.
don't turn a story into something more political than it really is.
the way you people go about LGBTQ is the same as calling call of duty games a direct political anti war campaign, when it isn't.
and it probably never will be.

this manga is yuri, it's about a lesbian protagonist, it's not about queers, not about transgenders, not about gay men.
i frequent japan, and i talk to alot of locals about alot of things, all over the country, don't just go and assume things falsely.

"You westerners" And yet you "frequent" japan, not live there, don't think I missed that distinction. If you weren't raised there, or don't live there full time now, your connection to that culture is a lot weaker than the supreme godlike authority you are presenting it as. I'm also going to guess when you talk about chatting with Locals, you're not talking specifically about queer communities, who would know better what the actual shape of queer culture and politics in Japan is than Hiroshi at the local Izakaya. So if you are someone with enough wealth to regularly travel to Japan without living there, no matter where you originally hail from, that does not rule out you being an Orientalist.

A story about a queer person and how they relate to the world is in some way about queerness in general, you claiming that a single queer person exists in isolation is fucking ridiculous when you yourself use LGBTQ, a term used to describe the Community we have with each other, even between different types of queer people. Hell, one of the supporting character's in this story, (the Senpai) is providing emotional support as an elder gay to the closeted gay, that is literally queer people being in community with each other, it also has a possibly gay, possibly bisexual character processing what she wants her relationship to be to be with the Main Lesbian so it does in fact involve more than one, singular isolated lesbian, you're just factually wrong.

I would never claim that the CoD games are anti-war... they are pro-war, this was a bad example for you to pick, because the switch to the Modern Warfare era and the consequent rise in popularity was a DIRECT response to 911 and the war on terror, it was a revenge fantasy for a wounded America against both the middle east and old enemies.

Lastly, no-one is claiming that this manga is talking directly about gay men or trans people, but there are some shared experiences that this story does talk about that are relevant to Lesbians AND Trans people AND gay men, and others besides, the fear of being rejected, the uncertainty of what you even are, trying to sacrifice your happiness to not inconvenience others, these are all incredibly common experiences in both queer stories and real-life lived experiences, so you are again, factually wrong when you say this story doesn't have queer themes.

Oh and by the way... when you say "transgenders" and not "trans people" you are engaging in the same kind of casually dehumanising rhetoric that is often used to describe People of Colour or Jewish people, removing "people" from that descriptor is no accident in the case of where you got that lingo from, whether that low-key disdain was your intent or not, it is definitely something you inherited from somewhere, and I suspect it is a symptom of the queerphobia you are trying (and failing) to disguise as something more "politically neutral".

 

[holicastral]

So Angst caused by the relationship to the the world that being queer results in like that is somehow not a relevant theme? Also, what exactly makes something "serious"? That seems like it could be a sliding scale, is there a particular percentage point value of seriousness that needs to be reached for something to qualify as serious, how would you quantify that?

To say nothing of how subjective a read of seriousness can be, I for example think that it is a relatively serious theme to talk honestly about the pain caused by the kinds of difficult, messy situations brought up by this story, not everything needs to be high-stakes life and death stuff for it to matter

how to qualify? by the author's intention (and i gave the example of one of his creations with incest, how serious do you think that one is?)
as a person that had many failed relationships with men and women with a lot of my own issues to stay with and find someone (there was no high stakes, just sad moments), i dont think this is anything serious, yes it shows queer problems and such but just by consequence
calling CoD pro-war is wrong, it was made to appeal to people who liked stuff related to war (by consequence likely pro-war people) but the intention was not to influence or fuel anything but their pockets with money while paying back with a fun game (until it was mostly just for money)

 

[leviadragon]

how to qualify? by the author's intention (and i gave the example of one of his creations with incest, how serious do you think that one is?)
as a person that had many failed relationships with men and women with a lot of my own issues to stay with and find someone (there was no high stakes, just sad moments), i dont think this is anything serious, yes it shows queer problems and such but just by consequence
calling CoD pro-war is wrong, it was made to appeal to people who liked stuff related to war (by consequence likely pro-war people) but the intention was not to influence or fuel anything but their pockets with money while paying back with a fun game (until it was mostly just for money)

The intentions of the author in a different piece with a different theme do not imply a causal link with their seriousness with another, or indeed HOW they wanted to talk about it seriously. It is also possible, albeit odious, that they are also serious about the themes of the incest story, or that they were making a serious statement about how fucked incest is, I don't know this other story so I can't speculate further, you are projecting your own lack of intellectual curiosity onto creators you clearly don't know well enough to understand. Dig me up some material where they talk about their intent for either story, otherwise you are just performing a reading of the text that uses a different (and much more cynical) lens of critical analysis than I.

"High stakes" are relative, and subject to the Perspective of those involved, just because you don't perceive them as important based on your own experience, don't mean that the characters, or indeed other people in the real world, don't see them as Emotionally Significant. You are still using a very solipsistic lens of literary analysis. Also this still shows your very arbitrary fixation on "seriousness" Yeah there's always going to be something with a greater impact on the world, a school shooting doesn't compare to the holocaust, but that doesn't mean we only pay attention to the Most Significant Events Ever. Because that's just not how humans work on a cognitive level, to say nothing of social or moral parameters.

CoD's modern warfare branch is about playing as heroic soldiers killing people in the middle east/russians for some reason, that is an inherently political statement that implies the Values of the creator, and it was made after 9/11, of course it was affected by that political reality, and thus gives tacit approval to the revenge fantasies of the war on terror. Yes art is affected by such pragmatic realities as Money, but that doesn't mean that's the only reason people make art, otherwise people would never have tried to make queer art in eras when it was not only unprofitable, but could secure negative consequences for you legally and socially. It wouldn't explain why people made anticapitalist art during the era of the red scare. Your cynicism is based on your own shallowness and minimal media literacy.

I could apply this same laziness to any story. 1984? Oh that's just how much that year sucked, Metal Gear? hehe stealthy soldier man, Birth of a Nation? They just liked their white hoods, Nazi parades? they just had funny ways of walking. You're either an idiot, or you're disingenuously stripping artistic intent ONLY from cases where you don't want it to be there.

 

[holicastral]

The intentions of the author in a different piece with a different theme do not imply a causal link with their seriousness with another, or indeed HOW they wanted to talk about it seriously. It is also possible, albeit odious, that they are also serious about the themes of the incest story, or that they were making a serious statement about how fucked incest is, I don't know this other story so I can't speculate further, you are projecting your own lack of intellectual curiosity onto creators you clearly don't know well enough to understand. Dig me up some material where they talk about their intent for either story, otherwise you are just performing a reading of the text that uses a different (and much more cynical) lens of critical analysis than I.

"High stakes" are relative, and subject to the Perspective of those involved, just because you don't perceive them as important based on your own experience, don't mean that the characters, or indeed other people in the real world, don't see them as Emotionally Significant. You are still using a very solipsistic lens of literary analysis. Also this still shows your very arbitrary fixation on "seriousness" Yeah there's always going to be something with a greater impact on the world, a school shooting doesn't compare to the holocaust, but that doesn't mean we only pay attention to the Most Significant Events Ever. Because that's just not how humans work on a cognitive level, to say nothing of social or moral parameters.

CoD's modern warfare branch is about playing as heroic soldiers killing people in the middle east/russians for some reason, that is an inherently political statement that implies the Values of the creator, and it was made after 9/11, of course it was affected by that political reality, and thus gives tacit approval to the revenge fantasies of the war on terror. Yes art is affected by such pragmatic realities as Money, but that doesn't mean that's the only reason people make art, otherwise people would never have tried to make queer art in eras when it was not only unprofitable, but could secure negative consequences for you legally and socially. It wouldn't explain why people made anticapitalist art during the era of the red scare. Your cynicism is based on your own shallowness and minimal media literacy.

I could apply this same laziness to any story. 1984? Oh that's just how much that year sucked, Metal Gear? hehe stealthy soldier man, Birth of a Nation? They just liked their white hoods, Nazi parades? they just had funny ways of walking. You're either an idiot, or you're disingenuously stripping artistic intent ONLY from cases where you don't want it to be there.

The intentions of the author in a different piece with a different theme do not imply a causal link with their seriousness with another, or indeed HOW they wanted to talk about it seriously. It is also possible, albeit odious, that they are also serious about the themes of the incest story, or that they were making a serious statement about how fucked incest is, I don't know this other story so I can't speculate further, you are projecting your own lack of intellectual curiosity onto creators you clearly don't know well enough to understand. Dig me up some material where they talk about their intent for either story, otherwise you are just performing a reading of the text that uses a different (and much more cynical) lens of critical analysis than I.

"High stakes" are relative, and subject to the Perspective of those involved, just because you don't perceive them as important based on your own experience, don't mean that the characters, or indeed other people in the real world, don't see them as Emotionally Significant. You are still using a very solipsistic lens of literary analysis. Also this still shows your very arbitrary fixation on "seriousness" Yeah there's always going to be something with a greater impact on the world, a school shooting doesn't compare to the holocaust, but that doesn't mean we only pay attention to the Most Significant Events Ever. Because that's just not how humans work on a cognitive level, to say nothing of social or moral parameters.

CoD's modern warfare branch is about playing as heroic soldiers killing people in the middle east/russians for some reason, that is an inherently political statement that implies the Values of the creator, and it was made after 9/11, of course it was affected by that political reality, and thus gives tacit approval to the revenge fantasies of the war on terror. Yes art is affected by such pragmatic realities as Money, but that doesn't mean that's the only reason people make art, otherwise people would never have tried to make queer art in eras when it was not only unprofitable, but could secure negative consequences for you legally and socially. It wouldn't explain why people made anticapitalist art during the era of the red scare. Your cynicism is based on your own shallowness and minimal media literacy.

I could apply this same laziness to any story. 1984? Oh that's just how much that year sucked, Metal Gear? hehe stealthy soldier man, Birth of a Nation? They just liked their white hoods, Nazi parades? they just had funny ways of walking. You're either an idiot, or you're disingenuously stripping artistic intent ONLY from cases where you don't want it to be there.

my goodness what the hell are you saying?
no there's nothing about his intentions anywhere but about how he likes to make emotional manga (what? should i dm them and ask for you to be satisfied?) and yes the one with incest is emotional just like this one, and i never said anything about high stakes, thats just you

fixation on seriousness? are you fixated in it too then? atleast you seem to be taking this too seriously since you for some reason decided nazi parades needed to be mentioned, seriously are you gonna start treating real life like just "any story" now? an oddous person like you cant be this edgy right?
CoD's developers are artists yes (unlike you until stated as such, hell im a artist) and they stated far back that the game is about the story and not statements on war, without a side and all (true or not, those are their words), art is not always about anything, its about intention and those with open ends are left to be closed in views, want a game about the true horror of war? PLAY spec ops: the line

i never invalidated anything, unlike you do people with opposing views to yours my friend, cynicism? me? perhaps im a mirror then, minimal media literacy? sweet sounding way of calling me stupid huh oh and how shallow i am~
im afraid you're disingenuously using smart words to sound better then me, is it bold to assume that?, undermining real life to make yourself sound hmmmmmm... more serious?
you sound "very" accepting you know, the kind of person that truly views the world it's own way and none other!, how foolish of me to be the only one that consumed the manga, follows the artist (for art interest), played cod, lost someone to a minor war and being part of the same community that suffered so much i tottaly indeed have no idea of what im saying or reading (i dont have opinions, im just that stupid), mind educating me? am lil me too silly to be taught?

you're a stuck up fool, no more or less, seriously i tried having a normal conversation with you, only to get long texts full of your lovely personality (more and more as it goes on), keep fueling your ego since its your ally and fulfills your dull life, i also recommend making a literary analysis of The Berenstain Bears Show Some Respect
i disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it anyway.

 

[leviadragon]

my goodness what the hell are you saying?
no there's nothing about his intentions anywhere but about how he likes to make emotional manga (what? should i dm them and ask for you to be satisfied?) and yes the one with incest is emotional just like this one, and i never said anything about high stakes, thats just you

fixation on seriousness? are you fixated in it too then? atleast you seem to be taking this too seriously since you for some reason decided nazi parades needed to be mentioned, seriously are you gonna start treating real life like just "any story" now? an oddous person like you cant be this edgy right?
CoD's developers are artists yes (unlike you until stated as such, hell im a artist) and they stated far back that the game is about the story and not statements on war, without a side and all (true or not, those are their words), art is not always about anything, its about intention and those with open ends are left to be closed in views, want a game about the true horror of war? PLAY spec ops: the line

i never invalidated anything, unlike you do people with opposing views to yours my friend, cynicism? me? perhaps im a mirror then, minimal media literacy? sweet sounding way of calling me stupid huh oh and how shallow i am~
im afraid you're disingenuously using smart words to sound better then me, is it bold to assume that?, undermining real life to make yourself sound hmmmmmm... more serious?
you sound "very" accepting you know, the kind of person that truly views the world it's own way and none other!, how foolish of me to be the only one that consumed the manga, follows the artist (for art interest), played cod, lost someone to a minor war and being part of the same community that suffered so much i tottaly indeed have no idea of what im saying or reading (i dont have opinions, im just that stupid), mind educating me? am lil me too silly to be taught?

you're a stuck up fool, no more or less, seriously i tried having a normal conversation with you, only to get long texts full of your lovely personality (more and more as it goes on), keep fueling your ego since its your ally and fulfills your dull life, i also recommend making a literary analysis of The Berenstain Bears Show Some Respect
i disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it anyway.

I don't want you to DM him to ask, that's missing the damn point. In fact I want you to stop acting like you have all the damn answers precisely because we don't know everything about what's going on through his head. I also used "high stakes" because I have no idea what you mean when you're talking about the "seriousness" of a work. because you never adequately defined that, you keep being vague about what makes other stories serious and this one not, hell from what you have gleaned of the author's intentions they clearly care about the emotional texture of a story, which is a thing that can be very emotionally significant to a reader.

At the end of the day, our argument is fundamentally about you trying to say "It's not that deep bro" and I'm saying "Yeah well that's just like, your opinion man" all of our frustrations circle around us talking past each other, you are allowed to personally not see it as deep, but maybe don't try to dictate how I am allowed to?

The reason I brought up nazi parades is not because of any direct relevance, but as an example of how wilful ignorance to the meaning a work has does not prevent it from being there, or affecting the intended audience. Again I reiterate, just because YOU don't see this work as having Themes, doesn't mean that your interpretation is necessarily correct. The reason I went with such shocking examples is to try and drill home how fucking stupid you sound when you act as if art doesn't have meaning just because YOU decide it doesn't.

CoD isn't about the horrors of war, it's about treating it as a grand adventure, that is a political statement, indeed pro-war propaganda. Even the choice to simply treat such a serious situation as war very closely inspired by the war on terror as "just a fun game lmao" has political and ideological implications of cheapening the real world implications. You don't get to be angry at me for mentioning nazis, and then turn around and act as if the War On Terror and the associated propaganda making it seem cool didn't drive an acceptance of the murder a lot of innocent children in the middle-east.

Okay these last few paragraphs from you seem to be a disjointed ramble that says little other than "no yu" so I'm gonna just ignore it and move on. End of the day, I'm going to remind you that you STARTED getting involved in this discussion to white knight someone who has since had a bunch of their comments deleted for saying homophobic shit, you don't get to take the moral high ground here boyo, it was never yours to begin with.

 

[Prismatic-chan]

"You westerners" And yet you "frequent" japan, not live there, don't think I missed that distinction. If you weren't raised there, or don't live there full time now, your connection to that culture is a lot weaker than the supreme godlike authority you are presenting it as. I'm also going to guess when you talk about chatting with Locals, you're not talking specifically about queer communities, who would know better what the actual shape of queer culture and politics in Japan is than Hiroshi at the local Izakaya. So if you are someone with enough wealth to regularly travel to Japan without living there, no matter where you originally hail from, that does not rule out you being an Orientalist.

A story about a queer person and how they relate to the world is in some way about queerness in general, you claiming that a single queer person exists in isolation is fucking ridiculous when you yourself use LGBTQ, a term used to describe the Community we have with each other, even between different types of queer people. Hell, one of the supporting character's in this story, (the Senpai) is providing emotional support as an elder gay to the closeted gay, that is literally queer people being in community with each other, it also has a possibly gay, possibly bisexual character processing what she wants her relationship to be to be with the Main Lesbian so it does in fact involve more than one, singular isolated lesbian, you're just factually wrong.

I would never claim that the CoD games are anti-war... they are pro-war, this was a bad example for you to pick, because the switch to the Modern Warfare era and the consequent rise in popularity was a DIRECT response to 911 and the war on terror, it was a revenge fantasy for a wounded America against both the middle east and old enemies.

Lastly, no-one is claiming that this manga is talking directly about gay men or trans people, but there are some shared experiences that this story does talk about that are relevant to Lesbians AND Trans people AND gay men, and others besides, the fear of being rejected, the uncertainty of what you even are, trying to sacrifice your happiness to not inconvenience others, these are all incredibly common experiences in both queer stories and real-life lived experiences, so you are again, factually wrong when you say this story doesn't have queer themes.

Oh and by the way... when you say "transgenders" and not "trans people" you are engaging in the same kind of casually dehumanising rhetoric that is often used to describe People of Colour or Jewish people, removing "people" from that descriptor is no accident in the case of where you got that lingo from, whether that low-key disdain was your intent or not, it is definitely something you inherited from somewhere, and I suspect it is a symptom of the queerphobia you are trying (and failing) to disguise as something more "politically neutral".

this is what orientalist means: An "orientalist" is a person who studies the languages, cultures, history, or other aspects of the Orient, which traditionally refers to the regions of East and Southeast Asia, and sometimes also includes the Middle East and North Africa.
i copy pasted that from google.
by that definition, i don't fall into that category because i'm asian / middle eastern.
also, i specifically am interested in japan, japanese culture and how they handle day to day things differently compared to us.

they don't make grand assumptions and put their own ideas as factual objective truth like you do.
they don't put everything into a term or group everything by a certain definition like you do.
they don't make a lesbian lovestory and call it something else like you do.
they don't create something and alter their viewpoint to please other/ all groups that may or may not be involved like you do.

when i say locals, i mean locals.
i travel to different cities, i visit different places, it's always random, and my encounters are also random, but the people i meet and talk to, are people from those cities usually, so locals.

don't get me wrong, i don't like the LGBTQ community.
or rather, the people who have been supporting each other or have been struggling with their sexuality that veered from what society views as normal, lesbians and homosexuals, have been fighting for acceptance for such a long time.
many out there are still struggling just coming to terms with it, with themselves.
i dislike this shoehorning of multiple, vastly different groups into one unit.
so yeah, for me, drag queens and nonbinaries and transgenders are not the same as lesbians and gays, that fight is an entirely different one, and so is the struggle.

stop grouping them together and diminishing their significance, stop assuming so many things about people you don't know, and stop forcing your western values on the rest of the world.

i enjoy reading your posts in yuri manga but this was a very poor showcase.

 

[holicastral]

I don't want you to DM him to ask, that's missing the damn point. In fact I want you to stop acting like you have all the damn answers precisely because we don't know everything about what's going on through his head. I also used "high stakes" because I have no idea what you mean when you're talking about the "seriousness" of a work. because you never adequately defined that, you keep being vague about what makes other stories serious and this one not, hell from what you have gleaned of the author's intentions they clearly care about the emotional texture of a story, which is a thing that can be very emotionally significant to a reader.

At the end of the day, our argument is fundamentally about you trying to say "It's not that deep bro" and I'm saying "Yeah well that's just like, your opinion man" all of our frustrations circle around us talking past each other, you are allowed to personally not see it as deep, but maybe don't try to dictate how I am allowed to?

The reason I brought up nazi parades is not because of any direct relevance, but as an example of how wilful ignorance to the meaning a work has does not prevent it from being there, or affecting the intended audience. Again I reiterate, just because YOU don't see this work as having Themes, doesn't mean that your interpretation is necessarily correct. The reason I went with such shocking examples is to try and drill home how fucking stupid you sound when you act as if art doesn't have meaning just because YOU decide it doesn't.

CoD isn't about the horrors of war, it's about treating it as a grand adventure, that is a political statement, indeed pro-war propaganda. Even the choice to simply treat such a serious situation as war very closely inspired by the war on terror as "just a fun game lmao" has political and ideological implications of cheapening the real world implications. You don't get to be angry at me for mentioning nazis, and then turn around and act as if the War On Terror and the associated propaganda making it seem cool didn't drive an acceptance of the murder a lot of innocent children in the middle-east.

Okay these last few paragraphs from you seem to be a disjointed ramble that says little other than "no yu" so I'm gonna just ignore it and move on. End of the day, I'm going to remind you that you STARTED getting involved in this discussion to white knight someone who has since had a bunch of their comments deleted for saying homophobic shit, you don't get to take the moral high ground here boyo, it was never yours to begin with.

im just gonna say this
spec ops: the line is not a cod game, i honestly recommend you check it, you sound like the kind of person that would like the story after all
i dont want to argue anymore, im done

 

[leviadragon]

im just gonna say this
spec ops: the line is not a cod game, i honestly recommend you check it, you sound like the kind of person that would like the story after all
i dont want to argue anymore, im done

I am aware of Spec Ops the line, I was never disputing that story was a good anti-war tale. In any event, I agree we should leave it here.