Kono Koi wo Hoshi ni wa Negawanai

[leviadragon]

this is what orientalist means: An "orientalist" is a person who studies the languages, cultures, history, or other aspects of the Orient, which traditionally refers to the regions of East and Southeast Asia, and sometimes also includes the Middle East and North Africa.
i copy pasted that from google.
by that definition, i don't fall into that category because i'm asian / middle eastern.
also, i specifically am interested in japan, japanese culture and how they handle day to day things differently compared to us.

they don't make grand assumptions and put their own ideas as factual objective truth like you do.
they don't put everything into a term or group everything by a certain definition like you do.
they don't make a lesbian lovestory and call it something else like you do.
they don't create something and alter their viewpoint to please other/ all groups that may or may not be involved like you do.

when i say locals, i mean locals.
i travel to different cities, i visit different places, it's always random, and my encounters are also random, but the people i meet and talk to, are people from those cities usually, so locals.

don't get me wrong, i don't like the LGBTQ community.
or rather, the people who have been supporting each other or have been struggling with their sexuality that veered from what society views as normal, lesbians and homosexuals, have been fighting for acceptance for such a long time.
many out there are still struggling just coming to terms with it, with themselves.
i dislike this shoehorning of multiple, vastly different groups into one unit.
so yeah, for me, drag queens and nonbinaries and transgenders are not the same as lesbians and gays, that fight is an entirely different one, and so is the struggle.

stop grouping them together and diminishing their significance, stop assuming so many things about people you don't know, and stop forcing your western values on the rest of the world.

i enjoy reading your posts in yuri manga but this was a very poor showcase.

Okay, so. You are correct that the original meaning of Orientalism, specifically in an Academic context is an artistic and philosophical movement where westerners appropriate eastern culture. If you are in fact from that region of the world, then the label would not apply adequately to you. However. You have been dancing around precisely where you are from, which in the context of denying the baggage associated with Orientalism, came across as suspicious. In any event, you have made it clear you are not someone with permanent residency in Japan, which still means your ability to speak authoritatively on such a specific topic as Japanese Queer Culture is Limited At Best unless you have been specifically engaging with that subculture, which several context clues indicate you are not. Even if Orientalism is not an accurate word for you, you are still strawmanning, flanderising, and fetishizing the culture of Japan from a generally outsider perspective, so perhaps... Japanophile instead? Or would you perfer Weeb?

As such, your second paragraph in your reply is just you putting words in the mouths of Japanese people, speaking for them in precisely the manner you accuse me of doing. Projection much?

Yes, you may well talk to random people across the country, and how many of them confide deeply personal and intimate information with a stranger? A lot of queer people would not feel comfortable revealing that information in mixed company, much less give a dissertation on the local queer scene. You may have spoken with queer people without realizing it... or maybe not, but either way that doesn't give you some unique insight into "they don't do x" about anything, because you've talked to a handful of different people under what I can only gleam to be surface-level circumstances. I can't be sure because you continue to be vague as hell, but nothing you are saying indicates you have deep insights, more that you have shallow assumptions because you chat people up at the train station.

Ah, and here it is, the queerphobia at the heart of this. You're an idiot. You don't know queer history. Drag is a Performance Art that includes a mix of gay and straight performers, it has strong and historic connections to the broader queer community, but it's not a category of identity in the same way that gay or trans people are. Trans people have been part of the movement since the very beginning, not a new thing, the one who was being beaten up at the Stonewall Pub that inspired the riot there was a black transwoman, trans people have been part of queer activism and the queer community from the beginning, not "shorehorned in" later, it's just ignorant shits like you didn't know back then and apparently don't know now, for a variety of reasons too messy to go into right now, but these days trans people are more visible, bi people are recognized as existing, ace people as well because they suffer under the same psychotic insistance of "no, you must breed now, make more babies for god's army". The reason LGBTIQ people stand together, is because we need to, because we are weaker apart, and because we fundamentally want the same things, basic respect, and not being murdered by cops. That is a choice that WE made collectively, so speaking as a queer person, how about you shut the fuck up and stop telling us how to organize and who we should ally with?

This entire time, you have been acting as if your knowledge is greater than mine, but you are factually incorrect about extremely basic elements of queer history and culture, which makes me doubt you know a damn thing about the queer scene in Japan in general, much less how it differs from the western one.

 

[Prismatic-chan]

Okay, so. You are correct that the original meaning of Orientalism, specifically in an Academic context is an artistic and philosophical movement where westerners appropriate eastern culture. If you are in fact from that region of the world, then the label would not apply adequately to you. However. You have been dancing around precisely where you are from, which in the context of denying the baggage associated with Orientalism, came across as suspicious. In any event, you have made it clear you are not someone with permanent residency in Japan, which still means your ability to speak authoritatively on such a specific topic as Japanese Queer Culture is Limited At Best unless you have been specifically engaging with that subculture, which several context clues indicate you are not. Even if Orientalism is not an accurate word for you, you are still strawmanning, flanderising, and fetishizing the culture of Japan from a generally outsider perspective, so perhaps... Japanophile instead? Or would you perfer Weeb?

As such, your second paragraph in your reply is just you putting words in the mouths of Japanese people, speaking for them in precisely the manner you accuse me of doing. Projection much?

Yes, you may well talk to random people across the country, and how many of them confide deeply personal and intimate information with a stranger? A lot of queer people would not feel comfortable revealing that information in mixed company, much less give a dissertation on the local queer scene. You may have spoken with queer people without realizing it... or maybe not, but either way that doesn't give you some unique insight into "they don't do x" about anything, because you've talked to a handful of different people under what I can only gleam to be surface-level circumstances. I can't be sure because you continue to be vague as hell, but nothing you are saying indicates you have deep insights, more that you have shallow assumptions because you chat people up at the train station.

Ah, and here it is, the queerphobia at the heart of this. You're an idiot. You don't know queer history. Drag is a Performance Art that includes a mix of gay and straight performers, it has strong and historic connections to the broader queer community, but it's not a category of identity in the same way that gay or trans people are. Trans people have been part of the movement since the very beginning, not a new thing, the one who was being beaten up at the Stonewall Pub that inspired the riot there was a black transwoman, trans people have been part of queer activism and the queer community from the beginning, not "shorehorned in" later, it's just ignorant shits like you didn't know back then and apparently don't know now, for a variety of reasons too messy to go into right now, but these days trans people are more visible, bi people are recognized as existing, ace people as well because they suffer under the same psychotic insistance of "no, you must breed now, make more babies for god's army". The reason LGBTIQ people stand together, is because we need to, because we are weaker apart, and because we fundamentally want the same things, basic respect, and not being murdered by cops. That is a choice that WE made collectively, so speaking as a queer person, how about you shut the fuck up and stop telling us how to organize and who we should ally with?

This entire time, you have been acting as if your knowledge is greater than mine, but you are factually incorrect about extremely basic elements of queer history and culture, which makes me doubt you know a damn thing about the queer scene in Japan in general, much less how it differs from the western one.

you are wrong about most of what you said, because the culture you are so familiar with in the west, is not the same as the one in the east.
you keep calling me an orientalist, yet what are you, exactly?
you think you are a bigger authority on the japanese homosexuality culture than me?
have you been in the middle of it with them specifically and discussed these topics among others with them personally?
maybe you have, but i kinda doubt it.
and no, i don't have residency in japan, i never will, i don't like alot of things about japan, contrary to your ass-pulled beliefs.
i don't fetishize japan either, no idea why you keep making stuff up about me.
and who are you? why would i tell you where my parents are from specifically?
the fact that you demand to know where i am from specifically in itself, points to a certain phobia towards foreigners, and me not liking LGBTQ+ movements is not the same as disliking a certain type of people, so you're wrong about that aswell.
so far, you only made far-fetched assumptions about me, wrong on almost all accounts, and still couldn't tell me how i am wrong about homosexuality in japan.
they're accepted at the very least, but the way that japanese people accept something is not the same as in the west, the japanese are inherently different both mentally and culturally, but their acceptance of homosexuality goes way further back than that of the west, i can tell you that much.

i figured that you are part of the western LGBTQ+ movement because of how toxic and unaccepting and enforcing you are, and how you make grand assumptions about people you know absolutely nothing about, which again confirms my dislike of people such as yourself, with this kind of attitude.

i'll do the same as the other person and stop engaging with you, it's pointless.

 

[leviadragon]

you are wrong about most of what you said, because the culture you are so familiar with in the west, is not the same as the one in the east.
you keep calling me an orientalist, yet what are you, exactly?
you think you are a bigger authority on the japanese homosexuality culture than me?
have you been in the middle of it with them specifically and discussed these topics among others with them personally?
maybe you have, but i kinda doubt it.
and no, i don't have residency in japan, i never will, i don't like alot of things about japan, contrary to your ass-pulled beliefs.
i don't fetishize japan either, no idea why you keep making stuff up about me.
and who are you? why would i tell you where my parents are from specifically?
the fact that you demand to know where i am from specifically in itself, points to a certain phobia towards foreigners, and me not liking LGBTQ+ movements is not the same as disliking a certain type of people, so you're wrong about that aswell.
so far, you only made far-fetched assumptions about me, wrong on almost all accounts, and still couldn't tell me how i am wrong about homosexuality in japan.
they're accepted at the very least, but the way that japanese people accept something is not the same as in the west, the japanese are inherently different both mentally and culturally, but their acceptance of homosexuality goes way further back than that of the west, i can tell you that much.

i figured that you are part of the western LGBTQ+ movement because of how toxic and unaccepting and enforcing you are, and how you make grand assumptions about people you know absolutely nothing about, which again confirms my dislike of people such as yourself, with this kind of attitude.

i'll do the same as the other person and stop engaging with you, it's pointless.

My contention is that I know more about queer culture specifically than you. There are indeed likely significant differences about Japanese Queer culture I am not aware of, but given your extensive queerphobia, I very much doubt you know anything about Japanese Queer culture, because you seem disinclined to actually learn anything about Queer culture in general.

In light of that, my knowledge about the Queer half of Japanese Queer Culture seems more directly relevant than your claimed knowledge of Japanese culture as a generalist, knowledge that you have not adequately demonstrated in a capacity beyond a glorified tourist.

My view that you fetishize Japan is based on your fetishization of what you perceive to be a less "decadent" version of their queer culture than the west, which again seems to be largely based on ignorance than on demonstrated understanding of either eastern or western queer culture.

I don't really care about where you're from, beyond you being deliberately evasive about it while trying to use your supposed closeness with Japan as a cudgel to attack queer culture. I have readily admitted that I do not know everything about Japanese queer culture... but for someone asking me to prove knowledge, you have proven fuck-all yourself.

Nice projection buddy, you can't rock up here with queerphobia and then act as if I'm the asshole for calling out your bigotry. The fact that you will openly admit to hatred towards LGBT+ people cedes any moral highground to talk about how "toxic" I am. Turns out, if you say you hate someone, then they are within their rights to tell you to fuck off.

 

[Prismatic-chan]

My contention is that I know more about queer culture specifically than you. There are indeed likely significant differences about Japanese Queer culture I am not aware of, but given your extensive queerphobia, I very much doubt you know anything about Japanese Queer culture, because you seem disinclined to actually learn anything about Queer culture in general.

In light of that, my knowledge about the Queer half of Japanese Queer Culture seems more directly relevant than your claimed knowledge of Japanese culture as a generalist, knowledge that you have not adequately demonstrated in a capacity beyond a glorified tourist.

My view that you fetishize Japan is based on your fetishization of what you perceive to be a less "decadent" version of their queer culture than the west, which again seems to be largely based on ignorance than on demonstrated understanding of either eastern or western queer culture.

I don't really care about where you're from, beyond you being deliberately evasive about it while trying to use your supposed closeness with Japan as a cudgel to attack queer culture. I have readily admitted that I do not know everything about Japanese queer culture... but for someone asking me to prove knowledge, you have proven fuck-all yourself.

Nice projection buddy, you can't rock up here with queerphobia and then act as if I'm the asshole for calling out your bigotry. The fact that you will openly admit to hatred towards LGBT+ people cedes any moral highground to talk about how "toxic" I am. Turns out, if you say you hate someone, then they are within their rights to tell you to fuck off.

thank you again for showcasing the actual toxicity of your western way of enforcing of beliefs.
you even continued with your assumptions, and went as far as to call me things i am not, slandering me for things that i am not, everything bad you say about me is entirely based on assumptions, because for you, only your way of thinking is correct, and everything else is bigotry and false.

that is exactly why i condemn western queer communities that are just like you.
the true gay and lesbian communities regardless of west or east also don't want to be affiliated with you and your type.
you people are toxic, and you have showcased that plentyfully.
the only difference between the japanese community and your community, is the fact that they don't insult others for difference opinions, and they don't enforce their way of thinking onto everyone else, like you do.
that's the only difference, and it does make all the difference.
i'm not phobic toward any sexual orientation or gender, i am only opposed to toxic enforcers such as yourself.
now get the memo and stop replying to me, i hate to engage with you, especially after all the insults and assumptions i had to endure from you ...
the irony is strong here.

 

[leviadragon]

thank you again for showcasing the actual toxicity of your western way of enforcing of beliefs.
you even continued with your assumptions, and went as far as to call me things i am not, slandering me for things that i am not, everything bad you say about me is entirely based on assumptions, because for you, only your way of thinking is correct, and everything else is bigotry and false.

that is exactly why i condemn western queer communities that are just like you.
the true gay and lesbian communities regardless of west or east also don't want to be affiliated with you and your type.
you people are toxic, and you have showcased that plentyfully.
the only difference between the japanese community and your community, is the fact that they don't insult others for difference opinions, and they don't enforce their way of thinking onto everyone else, like you do.
that's the only difference, and it does make all the difference.
i'm not phobic toward any sexual orientation or gender, i am only opposed to toxic enforcers such as yourself.
now get the memo and stop replying to me, i hate to engage with you, especially after all the insults and assumptions i had to endure from you ...
the irony is strong here.

"You are making assumptions."

"so that fully justifies me hating queer people"

Piss off mate, you can try to intellectualize it all you like, but I am responding to the energy you are putting out there, if you don't like that, then maybe don't rock up with queerphobic shit and then act as if your bigotry is not in fact bigotry because "trans people don't count" or "I don't hate you, I just think x y or z that mean I see you as less human" or whatever other casually wrong shit you have rattling around up there.

Hating """the culture""" and not the minority itself is the same kind of cognitive dissonance loophole lie that anti-semites and "hate the sin not the sinner" homophobes alike have been using for generations. I would honestly have more respect for you if you admitted outright that you hate queer people without trying to hide it behind this respectability politics bullshit.

If you say you hate my existence, then I owe you precisely Zero civility, in fact I am well within my moral and legal rights to tell you to go fuck yourself.

Newsflash hotshot, this isn't about you and how polite you find queer people, no-one cares about getting your approval, this is about us not wanting to be fucking murdered by governments or lynch mobs, lets all keep in mind the context in which queer culture evolved in many countries, and that somehow, that threat is still relevant today in most of them.

What's next, are you going to criticize black people for not liking slave owners? Exactly what value does it have to anyone to be servile and submissive to people like you who hate us? You're not going to like the people you hate either way, so complying with your wishes and making ourselves easier to ignore, just makes it easier for the people who are slightly more active in their hate than you to justify murdering us.

Also, the remarkable double-standard of you acting as if the "true" queer community in the east and west don't want to be involved with me, when you were the one complaining about how the true nature of the western queer community was bad... remind me again, where are you drawing that knowledge base from? Do you have even the slightest clue about these things, a single direct source, have you spoken with a person you knew was queer, have you read queer literature, attended a seminar, done a humanities course in school, or are you just assuming you're right? Don't answer that, I can tell you have already constructed the "model minority" version of queer people in your head, that are quiet, obedient, inoffensive to you, and utterly fictional.

So... when it comes to "enforcing" things, the only thing I am interested in enforcing is that clueless dipshits like you don't spout off as if you know things you clearly don't without recieving a rebuttal for your troubles. Have whatever bad takes you like, just don't try to speak for all the queer people in Japan, okay cupcake?

 

[OWhatever00]

Any "yuri" with a bi love interest is destined to be so toxic and cuck, the mc is so dumb in a realy annoying way. I hate ppl with low self-esteeme as much as i hate ppl with huge ego

 

[Prismatic-chan]

"You are making assumptions."

"so that fully justifies me hating queer people"

Piss off mate, you can try to intellectualize it all you like, but I am responding to the energy you are putting out there, if you don't like that, then maybe don't rock up with queerphobic shit and then act as if your bigotry is not in fact bigotry because "trans people don't count" or "I don't hate you, I just think x y or z that mean I see you as less human" or whatever other casually wrong shit you have rattling around up there.

Hating """the culture""" and not the minority itself is the same kind of cognitive dissonance loophole lie that anti-semites and "hate the sin not the sinner" homophobes alike have been using for generations. I would honestly have more respect for you if you admitted outright that you hate queer people without trying to hide it behind this respectability politics bullshit.

If you say you hate my existence, then I owe you precisely Zero civility, in fact I am well within my moral and legal rights to tell you to go fuck yourself.

Newsflash hotshot, this isn't about you and how polite you find queer people, no-one cares about getting your approval, this is about us not wanting to be fucking murdered by governments or lynch mobs, lets all keep in mind the context in which queer culture evolved in many countries, and that somehow, that threat is still relevant today in most of them.

What's next, are you going to criticize black people for not liking slave owners? Exactly what value does it have to anyone to be servile and submissive to people like you who hate us? You're not going to like the people you hate either way, so complying with your wishes and making ourselves easier to ignore, just makes it easier for the people who are slightly more active in their hate than you to justify murdering us.

Also, the remarkable double-standard of you acting as if the "true" queer community in the east and west don't want to be involved with me, when you were the one complaining about how the true nature of the western queer community was bad... remind me again, where are you drawing that knowledge base from? Do you have even the slightest clue about these things, a single direct source, have you spoken with a person you knew was queer, have you read queer literature, attended a seminar, done a humanities course in school, or are you just assuming you're right? Don't answer that, I can tell you have already constructed the "model minority" version of queer people in your head, that are quiet, obedient, inoffensive to you, and utterly fictional.

So... when it comes to "enforcing" things, the only thing I am interested in enforcing is that clueless dipshits like you don't spout off as if you know things you clearly don't without recieving a rebuttal for your troubles. Have whatever bad takes you like, just don't try to speak for all the queer people in Japan, okay cupcake?

you missquoted me, i'll fix it.
' that is exactly why i condemn western queer communities that are just like you. '
i dislike people like you, for reasons you have showcased quite often now, but you are none the wiser still, which is funny.

but at the end of the day, it's also perfectly in line with how americans tend to be.
they are always right, and everyone else is always wrong.

pathetic.

 

[thewomanliest]

"You are making assumptions."

"so that fully justifies me hating queer people"

Piss off mate, you can try to intellectualize it all you like, but I am responding to the energy you are putting out there, if you don't like that, then maybe don't rock up with queerphobic shit and then act as if your bigotry is not in fact bigotry because "trans people don't count" or "I don't hate you, I just think x y or z that mean I see you as less human" or whatever other casually wrong shit you have rattling around up there.

Hating """the culture""" and not the minority itself is the same kind of cognitive dissonance loophole lie that anti-semites and "hate the sin not the sinner" homophobes alike have been using for generations. I would honestly have more respect for you if you admitted outright that you hate queer people without trying to hide it behind this respectability politics bullshit.

If you say you hate my existence, then I owe you precisely Zero civility, in fact I am well within my moral and legal rights to tell you to go fuck yourself.

Newsflash hotshot, this isn't about you and how polite you find queer people, no-one cares about getting your approval, this is about us not wanting to be fucking murdered by governments or lynch mobs, lets all keep in mind the context in which queer culture evolved in many countries, and that somehow, that threat is still relevant today in most of them.

What's next, are you going to criticize black people for not liking slave owners? Exactly what value does it have to anyone to be servile and submissive to people like you who hate us? You're not going to like the people you hate either way, so complying with your wishes and making ourselves easier to ignore, just makes it easier for the people who are slightly more active in their hate than you to justify murdering us.

Also, the remarkable double-standard of you acting as if the "true" queer community in the east and west don't want to be involved with me, when you were the one complaining about how the true nature of the western queer community was bad... remind me again, where are you drawing that knowledge base from? Do you have even the slightest clue about these things, a single direct source, have you spoken with a person you knew was queer, have you read queer literature, attended a seminar, done a humanities course in school, or are you just assuming you're right? Don't answer that, I can tell you have already constructed the "model minority" version of queer people in your head, that are quiet, obedient, inoffensive to you, and utterly fictional.

So... when it comes to "enforcing" things, the only thing I am interested in enforcing is that clueless dipshits like you don't spout off as if you know things you clearly don't without recieving a rebuttal for your troubles. Have whatever bad takes you like, just don't try to speak for all the queer people in Japan, okay cupcake?

Just read this whole thread because I've seen you in quite a large amount of other forums & thought I'd be able to find some interesting reads from your page and wanted to say I'm so sorry you have to deal with these types of people LMAO. It's crazy how we can't escape bigotry & trivialization even in what are supposed to be our own spaces. I haven't touched the yuri or any other lesbian or queer subreddits in ages for this reason haha.

 

[leviadragon]

you missquoted me, i'll fix it.
' that is exactly why i condemn western queer communities that are just like you. '
i dislike people like you, for reasons you have showcased quite often now, but you are none the wiser still, which is funny.

but at the end of the day, it's also perfectly in line with how americans tend to be.
they are always right, and everyone else is always wrong.

pathetic.

ALL western queer communities are like me? nice broad sweeping generalization there jackass. So either they aren't, and thus don't deserve the bile you have been directing at ALL western queer voices from the start of this argument, or you are claiming that all Western queer communities are bad in the way you think I am, which considering how you have interpreted "was rude to a self-admitted bigot that just pretends their bigotry is valid" as unforgivable conduct I'm not gonna particularly trust your judgement on what makes a toxic queer community.

I will remind you again, you lost this argument outright when you effectively said that Trans people "don't count" that they should be viewed and treated separately to other queer people, which both ignores the documented history of queer liberation movements, (trans people were in the trenches since the beginning) and is indistinguishable from right-wing tactics that try to divide queer communities to weaken us and make us easier to destroy, if you didn't hate trans people, or indeed queer people more broadly then you would accept that you were wrong, that you were unwittingly aiding in right-wing dehumanization and eliminationist rhetoric, but you didn't, you either displayed the cowardice of silence, or doubled down because other queer people getting fucked over would be an acceptable sacrifice to you if trans people were treated even worse. This is no different to someone saying "well women should get the vote but not black people" and is exactly as morally bankrupt, either all marginalized people stand together, or we all die alone.

See that's the thing, I'm not buying your "I don't hate queer people just this kind of queer person" because you are describing (checks notes) calling out obvious bigotry, and having stories with themes in them, which are some incredibly basic entry-level stuff. If you see something shitty that someone is doing, you call it out, that is a basic part of the social contract, I'm not inflicting bodily harm on you over here, I'm using words to say you're wrong, and I only got hostile to you after you said blatantly hateful and/or colossally ignorant things.

Every single story that is created by humans has themes in it, that's just part of storytelling, it's an emergent process even if you don't intentionally set out to do it, the unconscious biases of an author will slip into the place where themes go even if they are intending to be "apolitical" So your starting premise that the gay story doesn't have gay themes in it is so redundantly wrong as to be blindingly obvious.

Funnily enough, I'm not actually American, but just like you with the East, I'm not obligated to say what part of the West I'm from. I am also in active contact with multiple queer people who are American residents, as well as having engaged with anthropological texts published by American and Non-American Academics on queer history and other topics, so unlike you who has spoken to random people you refuse to describe, I have directly pertinent information from personally involved parties on these topics.

Also, I don't think I'm always right, I just have receipts to prove that you in particular are wrong, based on your own rock-brained claims in this thread, and my knowledge of History.

 

[Prismatic-chan]

ALL western queer communities are like me? nice broad sweeping generalization there jackass. So either they aren't, and thus don't deserve the bile you have been directing at ALL western queer voices from the start of this argument, or you are claiming that all Western queer communities are bad in the way you think I am, which considering how you have interpreted "was rude to a self-admitted bigot that just pretends their bigotry is valid" as unforgivable conduct I'm not gonna particularly trust your judgement on what makes a toxic queer community.

I will remind you again, you lost this argument outright when you effectively said that Trans people "don't count" that they should be viewed and treated separately to other queer people, which both ignores the documented history of queer liberation movements, (trans people were in the trenches since the beginning) and is indistinguishable from right-wing tactics that try to divide queer communities to weaken us and make us easier to destroy, if you didn't hate trans people, or indeed queer people more broadly then you would accept that you were wrong, that you were unwittingly aiding in right-wing dehumanization and eliminationist rhetoric, but you didn't, you either displayed the cowardice of silence, or doubled down because other queer people getting fucked over would be an acceptable sacrifice to you if trans people were treated even worse. This is no different to someone saying "well women should get the vote but not black people" and is exactly as morally bankrupt, either all marginalized people stand together, or we all die alone.

See that's the thing, I'm not buying your "I don't hate queer people just this kind of queer person" because you are describing (checks notes) calling out obvious bigotry, and having stories with themes in them, which are some incredibly basic entry-level stuff. If you see something shitty that someone is doing, you call it out, that is a basic part of the social contract, I'm not inflicting bodily harm on you over here, I'm using words to say you're wrong, and I only got hostile to you after you said blatantly hateful and/or colossally ignorant things.

Every single story that is created by humans has themes in it, that's just part of storytelling, it's an emergent process even if you don't intentionally set out to do it, the unconscious biases of an author will slip into the place where themes go even if they are intending to be "apolitical" So your starting premise that the gay story doesn't have gay themes in it is so redundantly wrong as to be blindingly obvious.

Funnily enough, I'm not actually American, but just like you with the East, I'm not obligated to say what part of the West I'm from. I am also in active contact with multiple queer people who are American residents, as well as having engaged with anthropological texts published by American and Non-American Academics on queer history and other topics, so unlike you who has spoken to random people you refuse to describe, I have directly pertinent information from personally involved parties on these topics.

Also, I don't think I'm always right, I just have receipts to prove that you in particular are wrong, based on your own rock-brained claims in this thread, and my knowledge of History.

after i corrected you, you got it wrong again.
you remind me of that pirate guy who completely got the meaning of 'stopkillinggames' wrong and on top of that, threw out insults and doubled down on being wrong.

you just did the very same thing! that's kinda funny.
you called me an orientalist, but you are very american-coded, which yet again is another pleasant irony.

stop responding to me, you've done enough damage, as entertaining as it was, you won't be digging yourself out of that deep hole anymore.

 

[leviadragon]

after i corrected you, you got it wrong again.
you remind me of that pirate guy who completely got the meaning of 'stopkillinggames' wrong and on top of that, threw out insults and doubled down on being wrong.

you just did the very same thing! that's kinda funny.
you called me an orientalist, but you are very american-coded, which yet again is another pleasant irony.

stop responding to me, you've done enough damage, as entertaining as it was, you won't be digging yourself out of that deep hole anymore.

Pirategames is indeed a shithead yes, however that is irrelevant to you pretending to not be a shithead and acting offended when I point it out that transphobia (as the most obvious example) is in fact shithead behavior.

You may not be an Orientalist, but you certainly appear to be a Japanophile (derogatory).

As to me being "American-coded" America and Australia do have some cultural similarities to be sure, but considering that you are getting all pissy about me pointing out your transphobia and other, marginally subtler queerphobic takes, I don't think that whatever idea you have in mind of "America-coding" is the kind of burn you think it is.

You could stop responding at any time if you're tired of this, but if you're petty enough to want to get the last word, then I won't be giving you the satisfaction.

Your holier than thou claim to be gaining entertainment from this also doesn't really scan with your actions up to this point, and if I'm in a deep hole to you, then I will happily keep digging down deeper to get further away from your idiocy.

I do not need or want your respect, I want you to admit that you are just a bigot that is currently trying to pretend your preferred flavor of hate isn't, at least have the cajones to admit you hate trans folk (and queer people who don't prostrate themselves at your mercy) rather than pussyfooting around it, because that is what it means to suggest that trans people don't deserve to be involved in the struggle for human rights, or that queer people in general need to bow to your asinine demands of being unceasingly polite to people who want to murder us, do you have the slightest idea how insane and entitled that is on your part?

 

[Prismatic-chan]

Pirategames is indeed a shithead yes, however that is irrelevant to you pretending to not be a shithead and acting offended when I point it out that transphobia (as the most obvious example) is in fact shithead behavior.

You may not be an Orientalist, but you certainly appear to be a Japanophile (derogatory).

As to me being "American-coded" America and Australia do have some cultural similarities to be sure, but considering that you are getting all pissy about me pointing out your transphobia and other, marginally subtler queerphobic takes, I don't think that whatever idea you have in mind of "America-coding" is the kind of burn you think it is.

You could stop responding at any time if you're tired of this, but if you're petty enough to want to get the last word, then I won't be giving you the satisfaction.

Your holier than thou claim to be gaining entertainment from this also doesn't really scan with your actions up to this point, and if I'm in a deep hole to you, then I will happily keep digging down deeper to get further away from your idiocy.

I do not need or want your respect, I want you to admit that you are just a bigot that is currently trying to pretend your preferred flavor of hate isn't, at least have the cajones to admit you hate trans folk (and queer people who don't prostrate themselves at your mercy) rather than pussyfooting around it, because that is what it means to suggest that trans people don't deserve to be involved in the struggle for human rights, or that queer people in general need to bow to your asinine demands of being unceasingly polite to people who want to murder us, do you have the slightest idea how insane and entitled that is on your part?

i told you from the start, toxic and self centered people like you are the type i genuinely hate and dislike.
LGB community does not stand on the same terms as the rest, it's also about time you finally accepted that.
that's not even for human rights, because trans people have received more support in such a short time compared to lesbians and gays, it's not even funny anymore.
trans people weren't executed and coordinated and taken out, no, they instead received support and somehow were allowed to be more entitled than any other group in the entire world.
do not put trans people on the same pedestal as the rest, and do not do the same with nonbinary people, they are not the same, and never will be.
trans people are their own community without ANY of the struggle that homosexual people had go to through to get here.

it's high time you understood this.
calling people who disagree with you bigots and other insults is pathetic.
and trans people struggling to stay alive? they only kill themselves because they have mental problems, no one is executing them or seeking them out to kill them.
get a grip on reality you despicable, toxic, unlikable individual.
almost forgot .. i compared you to piratesoftware because you are the one in the wrong here, not me.
trying to turn that around somehow was such a pathetic attempt, almost as pathetic as the rest of your nonsense.
seriously, seek help.