Magan no Akuyaku ni Tensei Shita no de Oshi Chara o Mimamoru Mob o Mezashimasu - Ch. 4.2

[finalm]

My money on the author. It indeed normally impossible for her of being not aware of their engagement and relationships. As well as having good-natured personality and act such childishly. Author just need a tragic backstory and never thinked too deep about it.

Damn, but can you imagine if this is the explanation the author actually went with? I could see a great spinoff series out of that - in which the big sister scrambles to avoid a coup by the majority of the aristocracy, all of them beyond pissed at having such an important thing withheld from them for all those years? Have a few of them explain their motivations - like suddenly finding themselves in a faction that is soon going to mean almost nothing or vice-versa: having their simple manouvers to cozy up to someone for some resources suddenly land them in bed with the extended family of a new royal, while of course, being nowhere near ready for taking on the consequences and enemies that follow! I'd read that!

 

[finalm]

Yeah, this is bad for long-term prospects because it's disrupting the plot and Luxe will likely have to account for a long chain of ripple effects when he's predicting the future based on the plot now.

But also, it ain't so easy to stand by and let a character you like just...suffer because the plot said so.

Now that I think about it, isn't letting someone develop a complex or otherwise suffering just so she'll fall in love with someone repairing that trauma later on kinda...grooming? For someone else in this case, but still...
Like, there's a difference between the fantasy that speaks to peoples' hero complexes of saving a maiden and actively allowing someone to come to emotional or bodily harm just so someone else can swoop in to look like a hero.

I think you're heavily exaggerating as to the "suffering" part. The girl was hit by the reality that her crush has no interest in her and is already taken. Pretty much everyone has at least one similar experience in their life, it can very well be considered part of growing up. She'd be fine. As an adult, the MC has to be aware of this, so his choice to intervene is mainly for the sake of getting closer to her.

Grooming is a long-term process with the goal of changing the child in question to your liking. Her sister wanting to ditch "the tail" so she can have some alone time with her lover simply does not qualify. Especially since setting her up with company should mean that she's too occupied to spy on them and witness anything unpleasant (turned out not to work, but still). As for the MC, too soon to tell, but the very fact that an adult-in-mind seems not to regard her as a child raises concerns.

 

[jump90008]

Bruh , he’s stalker now

 

[nueee]

Thank you

 

[mahtan]

Look at me, look at you
Take my revenge, that's what I'm gonna do
I'm a warrior, baby, what else is new?
And my blade's gonna tear through you, bring it
'Cause, baby, tonight
The creeper's tryna steal all our stuff again
(Gather your stuff, yeah, let's take back the world)

 

[JustSomeGuyOnHisPhone]

Ah yes, we finally got the failed at being a mob right away lol

 

[Psychronia]

I think you're heavily exaggerating as to the "suffering" part. The girl was hit by the reality that her crush has no interest in her and is already taken. Pretty much everyone has at least one similar experience in their life, it can very well be considered part of growing up. She'd be fine. As an adult, the MC has to be aware of this, so his choice to intervene is mainly for the sake of getting closer to her.

Grooming is a long-term process with the goal of changing the child in question to your liking. Her sister wanting to ditch "the tail" so she can have some alone time with her lover simply does not qualify. Especially since setting her up with company should mean that she's too occupied to spy on them and witness anything unpleasant (turned out not to work, but still). As for the MC, too soon to tell, but the very fact that an adult-in-mind seems not to regard her as a child raises concerns.

Well firstly, I was talking more broadly than this specific case. Whether it's saving someone from bullying early or helping them with some other complex they're developing.
In this case, it would be the latter instead of heartbreak, which is part of puberty and perfectly natural. An inferiority complex that builds up more and more over the years with a persistent sense of self-hate.

Hmm. I was talking about essentially seducing a girl in her impressionable childhood years so that she's dependent. Is that not the right term for it?

 

[finalm]

Well firstly, I was talking more broadly than this specific case. Whether it's saving someone from bullying early or helping them with some other complex they're developing.
In this case, it would be the latter instead of heartbreak, which is part of puberty and perfectly natural. An inferiority complex that builds up more and more over the years with a persistent sense of self-hate.

Hmm. I was talking about essentially seducing a girl in her impressionable childhood years so that she's dependent. Is that not the right term for it?

That's the thing, I'm not really convinced it's an infiriority complex that's at fault. She easily lumps it together with her other grievances, but it's not like this ever was a competition and if it was so in her mind, then she wasn't even competing - what with trying to keep tabs on her sister's dates? Do also note, that even if she considers herself inferior in all things, only this little incident broke her down.

Well, yeah I suppose. With regards to whom are you pointing this out?

 

[Psychronia]

That's the thing, I'm not really convinced it's an infiriority complex that's at fault. She easily lumps it together with her other grievances, but it's not like this ever was a competition and if it was so in her mind, then she wasn't even competing - what with trying to keep tabs on her sister's dates? Do also note, that even if she considers herself inferior in all things, only this little incident broke her down.

Well, yeah I suppose. With regards to whom are you pointing this out?

Wait, what? She wasn't under the impression that this was her date, and clearly there's a lot of other small events before this building up to the moment we see. It's just the last straw that broke the camel's back. It doesn't have to be a competition for there to be comparisons either.

For specific examples, I'm thinking of mainly Villainess stories since those are the ones with a pre-written plot most of the time. Stuff like Bakarina, Heretical Last Boss, Survive as the Hero's Wife, and kinda Mobuseka. These aren't examples of willful manipulation, mind you, but that's the general area of "interfering in canon developments" or "willfully trying to avoid disrupting canon developments even if it means the party suffers" where it amounts to a mentally older person trying to decide on the course of someone else's love life.

I guess the most blatant example I can think of would be Rudeus and Sylvie from Mushoku Tensei.

 

[finalm]

Wait, what? She wasn't under the impression that this was her date, and clearly there's a lot of other small events before this building up to the moment we see. It's just the last straw that broke the camel's back. It doesn't have to be a competition for there to be comparisons either.

For specific examples, I'm thinking of mainly Villainess stories since those are the ones with a pre-written plot most of the time. Stuff like Bakarina, Heretical Last Boss, Survive as the Hero's Wife, and kinda Mobuseka. These aren't examples of willful manipulation, mind you, but that's the general area of "interfering in canon developments" or "willfully trying to avoid disrupting canon developments even if it means the party suffers" where it amounts to a mentally older person trying to decide on the course of someone else's love life.

I guess the most blatant example I can think of would be Rudeus and Sylvie from Mushoku Tensei.

She knew her sister was going to meet up with the prince, she said so herself. What other reason could she think of for a woman to meet with her fiancee? What I'm getting at is that it wasn't the realisation that she's inferior that got her in that state, though it might be how she rationalized it right then.

Out of those I've only read Mobuseka and I don't see it fitting. The MC's "decision on the course of someone's love life" was limited to avoiding being part of said love life, which is a decision anyone is entitled to, no matter the circumstances. He didn't do anything to set up anyone, even though he thought that the story unfolding as it should have would be for the best. As for acting to avoid suffering, yeah he did but the stakes could not have been more different between those situations. It's teenage angst versus death or a life of exile. Not to mention, a large part of his decision to act was the fact that someone else has already irreperably screwed up the story...

 

[Liar]

Honestly, it would be hard not to raise a flag if I was in that situation too. I can't stand it when others are sad. I would always try to help cheer them up somehow.

 

[Psychronia]

She knew her sister was going to meet up with the prince, she said so herself. What other reason could she think of for a woman to meet with her fiancee? What I'm getting at is that it wasn't the realisation that she's inferior that got her in that state, though it might be how she rationalized it right then.

Not a date. She explicitly didn't think they were together and it's implicit she's naive enough to not know what they were doing alone together. Complain about the believability of her not knowing if you'd like, but that's what the story says. I'd agree that she was funneling her emotion into the inferiority complex for the breakdown here, but that issue was still brewing even before this incident.

Out of those I've only read Mobuseka and I don't see it fitting. The MC's "decision on the course of someone's love life" was limited to avoiding being part of said love life, which is a decision anyone is entitled to, no matter the circumstances. He didn't do anything to set up anyone, even though he thought that the story unfolding as it should have would be for the best. As for acting to avoid suffering, yeah he did but the stakes could not have been more different between those situations. It's teenage angst versus death or a life of exile. Not to mention, a large part of his decision to act was the fact that someone else has already irreperably screwed up the story...

That's why I said "kind of" and explicitly said this isn't a case of willful manipulation.
The fact remains that the MC there knew a future event and was hoping to send Olivia on her various trials so she would be saved by the love interests. This topic does not apply to Angie because he willfully broke the plot at the point he helped her. Unless you mean the exile/death was for him, in which case I don't think that was a concern at that point in the story.

The point I've been making from the start is that when you have foreknowledge of an original plot, leaving it alone and letting suffering happen so it can reached a pre-determined outcome (as far as you know) is ethically suspect. Which is why good people would intervene even if it disrupts "the plot".

 

[finalm]

Not a date. She explicitly didn't think they were together and it's implicit she's naive enough to not know what they were doing alone together. Complain about the believability of her not knowing if you'd like, but that's what the story says. I'd agree that she was funneling her emotion into the inferiority complex for the breakdown here, but that issue was still brewing even before this incident.


That's why I said "kind of" and explicitly said this isn't a case of willful manipulation.
The fact remains that the MC there knew a future event and was hoping to send Olivia on her various trials so she would be saved by the love interests. This topic does not apply to Angie because he willfully broke the plot at the point he helped her. Unless you mean the exile/death was for him, in which case I don't think that was a concern at that point in the story.

The point I've been making from the start is that when you have foreknowledge of an original plot, leaving it alone and letting suffering happen so it can reached a pre-determined outcome (as far as you know) is ethically suspect. Which is why good people would intervene even if it disrupts "the plot".

Well, I have no choice but complain about the believability, if that's how you put it. Because it's basically zero - this engagement has been going on for years and the girl, while still a child, is not young enough to be clueless about what that entails. Unless she's delusional to the point of rejecting reality, it's simply not possible for her not to know. Also, why would she insist on tagging along, to the big sister's chargin, if she already didn't suspect what was up?

To be specific, he was more concerned that intervening would mean that the conditions for saving the kingdom (i.e. kill the unkillable monsters) would not be met. The game stated that what was needed was the "power of love" between the heroine and the love interests. This turned out to be false, but it's understandable why he'd seriously hesitate, even when he was already convinced the guys in questionj were no good. No one gets to be happy if everyone dies, after all.

Yes, it's the wrong thing to do if the only reason is some personal gain for you. However, I think the stakes need to be considered and these two stories are a nice contrast. As I've said before, in Mobuseka it's a question of death or a miserable life for Angie (and she wasn't directly tied to the final battle in any way), while in Olivia's case the plot was already derailed by a third party, so leaving her alone would likely have worse consequences than acting. In this story you have the option of helping a teenager wrestle with her emotions, which might be nice, but you already know that even if you don't do it, she'll be fine shortly. Said teenager is a key part of the plot, like Olivia was, so there's no telling what will happen if she grows attached to you now. What is certain is that your plan to "be a mob" will be about as realistic as Leon's - you're choosing to get deeply involved.

 

[Psychronia]

Well, I have no choice but complain about the believability, if that's how you put it. Because it's basically zero - this engagement has been going on for years and the girl, while still a child, is not young enough to be clueless about what that entails. Unless she's delusional to the point of rejecting reality, it's simply not possible for her not to know. Also, why would she insist on tagging along, to the big sister's chargin, if she already didn't suspect what was up?

To be specific, he was more concerned that intervening would mean that the conditions for saving the kingdom (i.e. kill the unkillable monsters) would not be met. The game stated that what was needed was the "power of love" between the heroine and the love interests. This turned out to be false, but it's understandable why he'd seriously hesitate, even when he was already convinced the guys in questionj were no good. No one gets to be happy if everyone dies, after all.

Yes, it's the wrong thing to do if the only reason is some personal gain for you. However, I think the stakes need to be considered and these two stories are a nice contrast. As I've said before, in Mobuseka it's a question of death or a miserable life for Angie (and she wasn't directly tied to the final battle in any way), while in Olivia's case the plot was already derailed by a third party, so leaving her alone would likely have worse consequences than acting. In this story you have the option of helping a teenager wrestle with her emotions, which might be nice, but you already know that even if you don't do it, she'll be fine shortly. Said teenager is a key part of the plot, like Olivia was, so there's no telling what will happen if she grows attached to you now. What is certain is that your plan to "be a mob" will be about as realistic as Leon's - you're choosing to get deeply involved.

Well, going off the assumption that she doesn't know whether you like it or not, she obviously went simply because she liked the prince and wanted to see him herself.

Sure.

It's the other way around in this case, isn't it? Because there's no particular mention of Eliza's love being critical to the plot here, refraining from comforting her just so she'll fall in love with the other party is just as much of an active decision when the road to get there involves leaving her to wallow in misery.
It sacrifices the mob plan, but it's needlessly cruel to stand by and do nothing when a very preventable pain is happening to someone you like (as a character) right in front of your eyes.

 

[finalm]

It's the other way around in this case, isn't it? Because there's no particular mention of Eliza's love being critical to the plot here, refraining from comforting her just so she'll fall in love with the other party is just as much of an active decision when the road to get there involves leaving her to wallow in misery.
It sacrifices the mob plan, but it's needlessly cruel to stand by and do nothing when a very preventable pain is happening to someone you like (as a character) right in front of your eyes.

She's supposed to be part of the hero party, who'll go around solving this world's problems (and yes, I do agree that the world should get it's shit together and solve it's own problems rather than relying on a bunch of kids, but we all know this is not how it works in these type of stories). Will she, after befriending him? Who knows, I'd assume she'd be more eager to if not already having someone very close to her. What I'm saying is: the MC is being highly irresponsible by intervening at a whim, for a non-critical reason, while still trying to later back off and hope the mess sorts itself out. I'd have no trouble with it if he decided that for the sake of this girl he will get involved as long as necessary, which probably would require joining the heroes along with her. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I'd definetly wouldn't do as he did, it's easy to be an armchair strategist but humans get fickle when actual emotions are involved. I'm saying I wouldn't decide this lightly and not without adjusting my future plans.

 

[Psychronia]

She's supposed to be part of the hero party, who'll go around solving this world's problems (and yes, I do agree that the world should get it's shit together and solve it's own problems rather than relying on a bunch of kids, but we all know this is not how it works in these type of stories). Will she, after befriending him? Who knows, I'd assume she'd be more eager to if not already having someone very close to her. What I'm saying is: the MC is being highly irresponsible by intervening at a whim, for a non-critical reason, while still trying to later back off and hope the mess sorts itself out. I'd have no trouble with it if he decided that for the sake of this girl he will get involved as long as necessary, which probably would require joining the heroes along with her. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I'd definetly wouldn't do as he did, it's easy to be an armchair strategist but humans get fickle when actual emotions are involved. I'm saying I wouldn't decide this lightly and not without adjusting my future plans.

I wasn't under the assumption that he was going to try to back off later here, but maybe you read farther than I did. It would certainly be a flaw in the writing if he assumes he can just do this without the plot changing dramatically, but being willing to double-down and tackle the plot himself out of a love for a character in his favorite game felt like a good moment to me.

 

[pousaylova6]

thats not how mob act do dawg, you lied to us man, you lied

 

[exxeld]

bro saved this girl while accidentally raising a flag lmao good on him