Mezametara Saikyou Soubi to Uchuusenmochi Datta node, Ikkodate Mezashite Youhei toshite Jiyuu ni Ikitai - Vol. 9 Ch. 41.1

[electro_neanderthal]

Thanks for the translation!
I forgot this bit, but the world operates on dollar than yen, so big money really feels big which is nice. Not like one million is actually 10k

My only issue with the value of money in this manga is how cheap ships are. Like, everything else is about 1:1 with the US dollar, or within range of it. But new mother ships costing in the 30M enel range make no sense.

Now, ships IRL and ships in this story shouldn't be directly compared, because they are very different in terms of scope and scale per the label they're given. Krishna, for example, is smaller than a military corvette (as large as a civilian small class can remain in the civilian small class, even though in military terms the corvette is a small class ship). But their new mothership is larger than a military corvette; most likely larger than an IRL aircraft carrier, and the Gerald R. Ford class costs are expected to settle into the $8-10B range.

But they're also not produced in volumes approaching what a space-faring galactic empire produces—nowhere close.

With that said and taken into consideration, I would expect a mothership like the one they kit out to be at least 100M enel; 80M with discounts.

Why does everyone say “hum” and “hoe” all the time

I don’t think you’re aware that either of those are words that mean things, but they are

Imagine it like a culturally different "hmm" and "eh". Different cultures currently share some in-between sounds, but often have their own unique ones.

...

Imagine the tech is black-boxed so the scans are meaningless. That'd be top comedy

It's not that it's literally black-boxed, and there are only 2 components that make the krishna as unique as it is, both of which are so complex that they couldn't be reproduced. Everything else in the ship, thanks to it all getting scanned while in good condition, can be re-manufactured. Though to be fair, a good engineer can often figure out the original specs of a broken part.

...

Meanwhile, what Mimi knows about courtly manners is more "stay outta the way of nobles, they can strike you down without warning for any perceived slight"... Like most commoners, she has little functional knowledge of how to interact with the nobility.


Fortunately for all concerned, given that Hiro gives precisely ZERO craps about all of this blue-blood noise, the noble they're most likely to interact with is the shockingly-tolerant Serena.

Legally speaking, Mimi isn't wrong. There's a good enough reason for this fear, as not every noble is as tolerant as Serena, but its rare enough to say she is overreacting a bit.

Ya know. This is the exact point I tried to make for that chapter but was overwhelmingly told that I was full of it and completely wrong.

"only police/military force have that right"

One thing I would like to point out here:

The WN author, from this arc onwards, forgets a lot of previous details he created and accidentally retroactively changes things—for the worse—often enough that there are plot holes. It's been a bit since I read through this in the WN, so I don't know exactly what the space scans were doing, but it's totally possible for something to not make logical sense but still be accurate to the story.

Like, for example, security could set their laser guns to the lowest setting and start shooting the incoming dwarves without endangering their lives but still making the point. Like Hiro did in the 3rd chapter.

Or the WNs reason for the overhaul: it needs to be overhauled even though all systems are green. That's the only reason we're given, and this manga improved upon that.

I am confident enough to say the scans the dwarves were giving Krishna were more in-depth than the normal pirate/systems scan, which may be ill advised to do on a military vessel that has some secrets hidden about. No need to have the space FBI kick in your door if it can be helped.

On a prototype ship, it's more the risk of getting sued should you get caught selling the same design, even if it is different on the inside. But it wouldn't be illegal in that case.

 

[saredesu]

My only issue with the value of money in this manga is how cheap ships are. Like, everything else is about 1:1 with the US dollar, or within range of it. But new mother ships costing in the 30M enel range make no sense.

Now, ships IRL and ships in this story shouldn't be directly compared, because they are very different in terms of scope and scale per the label they're given. Krishna, for example, is smaller than a military corvette (as large as a civilian small class can remain in the civilian small class, even though in military terms the corvette is a small class ship). But their new mothership is larger than a military corvette; most likely larger than an IRL aircraft carrier, and the Gerald R. Ford class costs are expected to settle into the $8-10B range.

But they're also not produced in volumes approaching what a space-faring galactic empire produces—nowhere close.

With that said and taken into consideration, I would expect a mothership like the one they kit out to be at least 100M enel; 80M with discounts.

I like to think it's an effect left over from the game or the universe culture. Like how in games you can buy swords with copper coins but in modern real life such long blades are not easily obtainable you have to commission workshops and it'll cost way more. Besides, spaceships are common necessity and one can make one with scraps which most space pirates do. Minerals and metals are abundant and considering the setting, there must be cheap space alloy available bringing the price further down, like synthetic latex versus real latex situation in real life.

The real expensive goods in the universe are fresh biological goods like meat, wood and living plant. In the novel, they made note the sign of wealth of the count is not the size of the ship but the furnishing inside, with wooden antiques and potted plants. Or how crazy expensive the resort planet is because of the sea and doing bbq (!) is something only people who are stupid rich do.

My problem with Isekai is much simpler, I just don't like them scaling the money with yen like 100 copper is 100 yen etc etc, so when they got millions it doesn't feel like they actually gained millions, you see.

Author is clearly a PC gamer and I respect that, he takes on aspects usually seen in wrpg, unlike many Japanese LN novelists who just play DQ/piles on MMO skills (then proceed on cheating).

 

[CapnAndy]

Imagine it like a culturally different "hmm" and "eh". Different cultures currently share some in-between sounds, but often have their own unique ones.

If they’re making noises, they should be making noises. Not saying actual words out loud. That’s my entire point.

 

[Iamcheater]

Bullying Mei into asking forgiveness...sick bastard... New fetish unlocked

 

[TiaoAK47]

Hoe is like this

Thank you for blessing us with this information.

 

[TiaoAK47]

I find it fascinating how in an earlier chapter he was literally told that the scanning wasn't illegal so there wasn't anything he could do about it, and this chapter the people called "the authority" are saying that it is illegal.
Wasn't it the chapter that they arrived in this system and everyone was scanning his ship, the elf said it wasn't illegal?

It's not illegal but a breach of manners when out in space. It's a bit more clear in the web novel because once they land in port, they complain to the port authority.

Basically Hiro tells them he's important and here to make a big purchase and is reconsidering it due to the rude ships. Port authority assures him they'll take care of it. Hence why security is arresting these idiots for trying to scan his ship.

 

[electro_neanderthal]

I like to think it's an effect left over from the game or the universe culture. Like how in games you can buy swords with copper coins but in modern real life such long blades are not easily obtainable you have to commission workshops and it'll cost way more. Besides, spaceships are common necessity and one can make one with scraps which most space pirates do. Minerals and metals are abundant and considering the setting, there must be cheap space alloy available bringing the price further down, like synthetic latex versus real latex situation in real life.

The real expensive goods in the universe are fresh biological goods like meat, wood and living plant. In the novel, they made note the sign of wealth of the count is not the size of the ship but the furnishing inside, with wooden antiques and potted plants. Or how crazy expensive the resort planet is because of the sea and doing bbq (!) is something only people who are stupid rich do.

My problem with Isekai is much simpler, I just don't like them scaling the money with yen like 100 copper is 100 yen etc etc, so when they got millions it doesn't feel like they actually gained millions, you see.

Author is clearly a PC gamer and I respect that, he takes on aspects usually seen in wrpg, unlike many Japanese LN novelists who just play DQ/piles on MMO skills (then proceed on cheating).

I guess I should have made it clear that I'm also happy the author didn't do a direct to yen money thing, it's definitely a major plus for this series. I never understood why so many other authors just don't think at all about the money value.

I think you make an interesting point about how the alloys and such are much cheaper, which is why I said 80-100 million enel for a large civilian ship that's kitted out like a war ship. IRL, that size and armament would be $8 billion minimum. $13 billion was what the flagship cost IRL (the USS Gerald R. Ford).

Ask what capability your average space pirate needs, ask how much that would cost if Hiro's new near-military mothership is only 30 million enel, then ask if that lines up with the oft repeated fact that space pirates can't afford better ships despite the black market money and connections they have. And as far as I know, they don't actually build their own, either, so the manufacturing isn't that easy.

If you still disagree, that's fine, I can agree to disagree here. It's still only a minor hiccup, really.

If they’re making noises, they should be making noises. Not saying actual words out loud. That’s my entire point.

With all due respect, those are called "speech" bubbles. They're filled with things that people say. People say sound effects to intentionally and unintentionally express their emotions all the time. Thus, speech bubbles are used to convey sound effects when characters speak those sound effects.

 

[saredesu]

I guess I should have made it clear that I'm also happy the author didn't do a direct to yen money thing, it's definitely a major plus for this series. I never understood why so many other authors just don't think at all about the money value.

I think you make an interesting point about how the alloys and such are much cheaper, which is why I said 80-100 million enel for a large civilian ship that's kitted out like a war ship. IRL, that size and armament would be $8 billion minimum. $13 billion was what the flagship cost IRL (the USS Gerald R. Ford).

Ask what capability your average space pirate needs, ask how much that would cost if Hiro's new near-military mothership is only 30 million enel, then ask if that lines up with the oft repeated fact that space pirates can't afford better ships despite the black market money and connections they have. And as far as I know, they don't actually build their own, either, so the manufacturing isn't that easy.

If you still disagree, that's fine, I can agree to disagree here. It's still only a minor hiccup, really.


With all due respect, those are called "speech" bubbles. They're filled with things that people say. People say sound effects to intentionally and unintentionally express their emotions all the time. Thus, speech bubbles are used to convey sound effects when characters speak those sound effects.

You need to less military roleplay and more vidya man, this ain't war thunder forum. Games economy is not 1:1 to irl. Do you sperg when Fallout use caps? I don't get why you suddenly tearing (multiple) people apart when people just want to enjoy Japanese Han Solo manga.
K bye.

 

[electro_neanderthal]

You need to less military roleplay and more vidya man, this ain't war thunder forum. Games economy is not 1:1 to irl. Do you sperg when Fallout use caps? I don't get why you suddenly tearing (multiple) people apart when people just want to enjoy Japanese Han Solo manga.
K bye.

Well, for the record, I have no intention of tearing anyone apart. I saw your comment, a thought popped into me head, and I geeked out.

My latest response was more of the same, just explaining my logic. I even said we could agree to disagree because I don't think my view is the only legitimate one.

I apologize if any of my replies to you felt like I was saying you're wrong. That certainly isn't the case and I'll take the time here to say you could be right. Speculation is just that: speculation.

Also, the story gets better after this arc, so there's definitely more fun space mercenary stuff ahead.

 

[Me]

Legally speaking, Mimi isn't wrong. There's a good enough reason for this fear, as not every noble is as tolerant as Serena, but its rare enough to say she is overreacting a bit.

Oh, she's definitely not wrong. Just that the contrast with miss definitely-not-a-noble-no-sirree Elma is striking.

Of course, the only time any grumpy stuck-up noble ACTUALLY tries it around Hiro, it ends EXTREMELY badly for them. Not sure exactly how bad, but given the ladies in Hiro's company at the time... I'm pretty sure leaving his fate to law enforcement was actually cruel.

(Yeah, I'm trying to not spoil the comics-only readers with my stack of boox. It is hard!)

 

[electro_neanderthal]

Oh, she's definitely not wrong. Just that the contrast with miss definitely-not-a-noble-no-sirree Elma is striking.

Of course, the only time any grumpy stuck-up noble ACTUALLY tries it around Hiro, it ends EXTREMELY badly for them. Not sure exactly how bad, but given the ladies in Hiro's company at the time... I'm pretty sure leaving his fate to law enforcement was actually cruel.

(Yeah, I'm trying to not spoil the comics-only readers with my stack of boox. It is hard!)

Hmm... I don't recall Hiro leaving anyone to the authorities. Are you talking about sometime after chapter 464? I'm not sure if I'm reading the WN or the LN, but that's the latest translated chapter available to me at this time.

 

[Me]

Hmm... I don't recall Hiro leaving anyone to the authorities. Are you talking about sometime after chapter 464? I'm not sure if I'm reading the WN or the LN, but that's the latest translated chapter available to me at this time.

LN volume 7, chapter 11. Hiro takes a walk with Elma and a distant cousin of Mimi's. They get accosted by Elma's ex, who has hired goons attack the party after casting aspersions on Hiro and his guest. The goons and the ex are disabled non-fatally, and the police take them away after Hiro and his guest both give statements to the police.


It looks like it may be an LN-only chapter that didn't happen in the WN. It would've landed around the 190s, and I'm not seeing it.
Manga adaptations usually follow the LN when there's differences, so... something to look forward to I guess?

 

[electro_neanderthal]

LN volume 7, chapter 11. Hiro takes a walk with Elma and a distant cousin of Mimi's. They get accosted by Elma's ex, who has hired goons attack the party after casting aspersions on Hiro and his guest. The goons and the ex are disabled non-fatally, and the police take them away after Hiro and his guest both give statements to the police.


It looks like it may be an LN-only chapter that didn't happen in the WN. It would've landed around the 190s, and I'm not seeing it.
Manga adaptations usually follow the LN when there's differences, so... something to look forward to I guess?

Thanks for letting me know. I'm not exactly surprised it's only in the LN: when Hiro takes Mimi's

Spoiler

second cousin

to see some sights the WN glosses over it and I read a comment about how the LN explored that bit.

 

[Carn109]

Punished Mei

 

[welcome2atlantis]

Nice hotel room. Where's the mini bar?

 

[DanYHKim]

That hotel lobby!
I live in New Mexico, and went back to California for a family funeral. We are a bit of the 'country cousins' in my family, and were a bit out of place with the hotel that had been arranged. It was unsettling, but the hotel was fine with us as long as our money was green.

 

[CountryMage]

should've made Mei watch while he did his "nightly duties" with his crew imo

She's recording those anyway, it's not a punishment having her collect the data with the sensors on her face.

 

[mitchconner]

My only issue with the value of money in this manga is how cheap ships are. Like, everything else is about 1:1 with the US dollar, or within range of it. But new mother ships costing in the 30M enel range make no sense.

Now, ships IRL and ships in this story shouldn't be directly compared, because they are very different in terms of scope and scale per the label they're given. Krishna, for example, is smaller than a military corvette (as large as a civilian small class can remain in the civilian small class, even though in military terms the corvette is a small class ship). But their new mothership is larger than a military corvette; most likely larger than an IRL aircraft carrier, and the Gerald R. Ford class costs are expected to settle into the $8-10B range.

But they're also not produced in volumes approaching what a space-faring galactic empire produces—nowhere close.

With that said and taken into consideration, I would expect a mothership like the one they kit out to be at least 100M enel; 80M with discounts.

The LN does touch on lightly about space ship prices and manufacturing over the course of the story, Hiro has said the cheapest space ship a mercenary can buy is a Zubaton which is 500k +/- (exact prices were never given) ener, specced out is 2 million minus insurance.

Mei cost him 470k ener, her base was 75k ener for comparison.

in the context of the story there are some assumptions like space ship engines are perpetual energy machines or really fuel efficient because fuel is never mentioned in the story.

Hiro has said space mercenaries base their ships on three sizes, military ships have few more sizes.
small ships (krishna)
medium (pirate missile ships repurposed civilian cruise ships) (black lotus is medium sized since its like 300m length wise)
large battle ships (cruisers, battleship like the Lestarius (Serena space ship) i think it was like 2km long.

LN vol 2 chapter "The Pirate Hunting unit" (imperial military classifications)
(using Hiro mercenary sizing)
corvettes (medium)
cruisers (large)
destroyers (large)
battleship (ex large)

Also space ship manufacturers typically build their colonies in material rich star systems so raw resources are cheap import compared to our world where it's energy intensive to transport steel for example, they also have replicators and maintenance bots to build their ships.

pirates rarely run old surplus military space ships unless their from well funded pirate organizations or certain galactic empires, they use frankensteined civilian ships or cruise ships with maxed out weapon slots.

Spoiler: Cost breakdown of the lotus per English LN

The most expensive of the weapons was the large EML, which was 1.2 million Ener. The lasers were 100,000 each, and since we got twelve, they came out to 1.2 million Ener as well. One seeker missile pod was only 60,000 Ener, making a total of 600,000 for ten of them. Altogether, this cost us three million Ener.

By the way, here’s a breakdown of the Skithblathnir: The frame, including the two hangars, was about eight million Ener. The three-tiered shield generator was four million, and the military-grade laminated plating was five million. The class-six high-output generator was 4.5 million; the high-performance recovery drones, and transportation, including hyperdrive, FTL drive, and thrusters came out to 2.5 million Ener. The cargo division, including a cargo maintenance system, was one million. Other specific furnishings and weapon concealment all added two million on, bringing us to a total of twenty-eight million Ener. With the weapons, a grand total of thirty-one million.

 

[electro_neanderthal]

The LN does touch on lightly about space ship prices and manufacturing over the course of the story, Hiro has said the cheapest space ship a mercenary can buy is a Zubaton which is 500k +/- (exact prices were never given) ener, specced out is 2 million minus insurance.

Mei cost him 470k ener, her base was 75k ener for comparison.

in the context of the story there are some assumptions like space ship engines are perpetual energy machines or really fuel efficient because fuel is never mentioned in the story.

Hiro has said space mercenaries base their ships on three sizes, military ships have few more sizes.
small ships (krishna)
medium (pirate missile ships repurposed civilian cruise ships) (black lotus is medium sized since its like 300m length wise)
large battle ships (cruisers, battleship like the Lestarius (Serena space ship) i think it was like 2km long.

LN vol 2 chapter "The Pirate Hunting unit" (imperial military classifications)
(using Hiro mercenary sizing)
corvettes (medium)
cruisers (large)
destroyers (large)
battleship (ex large)

Also space ship manufacturers typically build their colonies in material rich star systems so raw resources are cheap import compared to our world where it's energy intensive to transport steel for example, they also have replicators and maintenance bots to build their ships.

pirates rarely run old surplus military space ships unless their from well funded pirate organizations or certain galactic empires, they use frankensteined civilian ships or cruise ships with maxed out weapon slots.

Spoiler: Cost breakdown of the lotus per English LN

The most expensive of the weapons was the large EML, which was 1.2 million Ener. The lasers were 100,000 each, and since we got twelve, they came out to 1.2 million Ener as well. One seeker missile pod was only 60,000 Ener, making a total of 600,000 for ten of them. Altogether, this cost us three million Ener.

By the way, here’s a breakdown of the Skithblathnir: The frame, including the two hangars, was about eight million Ener. The three-tiered shield generator was four million, and the military-grade laminated plating was five million. The class-six high-output generator was 4.5 million; the high-performance recovery drones, and transportation, including hyperdrive, FTL drive, and thrusters came out to 2.5 million Ener. The cargo division, including a cargo maintenance system, was one million. Other specific furnishings and weapon concealment all added two million on, bringing us to a total of twenty-eight million Ener. With the weapons, a grand total of thirty-one million.

Well, first I'll thank you for taking the time to reply and write this much.

Fuel is mentioned once, but its importance is never shown or told, so I'll go along with the assumption that it's so cheap it might as well be free.

At this point the issue for me is believing production is that cheap on such a large ship, even in the distant future. And we might just have to agree to disagree until better evidence is provided one way or the other.

300 meters is around the same size as the Nimitz class or Gerald R Ford class of aircraft carriers. It's longer than the Queen Elizabeth class of carriers (280 meters).

A new Zubaton costs 25% of what the current cheapest private jet costs new.

But, staying in-universe with known facts for comparison:

Their fancy food maker cost 45,000 enel. And it's not a replicator... I don't think they have that technology in this universe since they are still mining the materials and food is printed from cartridges stuffed with blended ingredients and specific spices.

Beyond that, we know AI have dedicated themselves to not taking jobs from humans/dwarve/elves/etc. in the empire.

So ship building, resource collection, etc. is likely done similarly to real life, with people controlling machines and using tools.

And in that case, I have an easier time believing a luxury stove can cost $45k than a 300 meter military ship costing only $30 million.

The kicker is, technically, while the series shows the prices working similarly to the USD, it tells us that the conversion is supposed to match JPY, which means Black Lotus would currently cost $210,800 USD. Ship prices in Yen are extremely high compared to this—in the trillions for something that large.

That's my perspective. I won't say it's the only logically correct one, especially since the author—at least in the WN; I hope the LN fixes them—becomes more inconsistent and forgetful of previously established facts and lore (and characterization in some cases) and the prices are what they are even if I'm not convinced the ship prices make any sense.

 

[mitchconner]

Well, first I'll thank you for taking the time to reply and write this much.

Fuel is mentioned once, but its importance is never shown or told, so I'll go along with the assumption that it's so cheap it might as well be free.

At this point the issue for me is believing production is that cheap on such a large ship, even in the distant future. And we might just have to agree to disagree until better evidence is provided one way or the other.

300 meters is around the same size as the Nimitz class or Gerald R Ford class of aircraft carriers. It's longer than the Queen Elizabeth class of carriers (280 meters).

A new Zubaton costs 25% of what the current cheapest private jet costs new.

But, staying in-universe with known facts for comparison:

Their fancy food maker cost 45,000 enel. And it's not a replicator... I don't think they have that technology in this universe since they are still mining the materials and food is printed from cartridges stuffed with blended ingredients and specific spices.

Beyond that, we know AI have dedicated themselves to not taking jobs from humans/dwarve/elves/etc. in the empire.

So ship building, resource collection, etc. is likely done similarly to real life, with people controlling machines and using tools.

And in that case, I have an easier time believing a luxury stove can cost $45k than a 300 meter military ship costing only $30 million.

The kicker is, technically, while the series shows the prices working similarly to the USD, it tells us that the conversion is supposed to match JPY, which means Black Lotus would currently cost $210,800 USD. Ship prices in Yen are extremely high compared to this—in the trillions for something that large.

That's my perspective. I won't say it's the only logically correct one, especially since the author—at least in the WN; I hope the LN fixes them—becomes more inconsistent and forgetful of previously established facts and lore (and characterization in some cases) and the prices are what they are even if I'm not convinced the ship prices make any sense.

The English LN is a way better read than the manga/WN, the web novel is a really rough draft, Ryuto (Author) retcon's and retools plot points starting around Tournament arc.

I think in the context of the "story/universe" the spaceship pricing is based on what mercenaries can afford.
That only mercantile fleets and well funded mercenary fleets can afford Motherships or larger vessals.

Based on Elma's Imperial space force fine mentioned in "vol 7 ex chapter"

Spoiler: Elma's Galatic Swan fine

37 million ener

She was two million short and a 5 year silver ranked veteran.