More Amazon Anime and Manga bans. Japan now very worried.

[Mr_Detective]

Question is, who's really responsible for this? Jeff is probably too busy to care about manga stuff. Some dumb managers? Some "college-educated" woke overseers? Some overly sensitive jackass in the board of directors?

But then again, Japan is a first-world country. Surely they have something that can compete with an American company. People will simply buy manga elsewhere. Vote with your wallet, my fellow товарищи.

 

[NodiX]

First of all, the video OP posted a video that talks about anime censorship because Tencent and China, the part where mentioning Japanese government, which Amazon has nothing to do with it.

Second, I reckon people over-reacting by bringing a whole culture and country with this issue. Amazon has been removing books from their platforms with vague or no reason for years, not just Japanese light novels. And when they do they usually won't tell you the reason. This is why many indie authors prefer to going "wide", not publishing exclusively on Amazon, on fears that Amazon would cut their primary source of incomes with their random book removals.

Third, in this case the reason of removals are pretty clear; sexualization of underage characters. Amazon is being pretty vague with their rules that even books that doesn't show graphic nudity or even any sort of eroticsm has been removed in the past. I'd say, for general rules, avoid submitting books that have loli characters to Amazon Kindle.

Four, the recent drama of book removal involved YenPress. Even though Kadokawa, a Japanese company, has 51% share in it, YenPress still a company that operates in the US. Japanese government unlikely to interfere even if YenPress is going down.

Five, yes, Amazon has been a tyrant when operating their trillion dollar platform empires. The only way for publishers to get away with this is for the book to be as popular as A Song of Ice and Fire or Fifty Shades of Grey. Otherwise, go to other ebook platforms or deal with it.

 

[crazybars]

*edit 2: Which media outlet is saying the Amazon delistings are about Underage nudity? Why does this keep popping up? You can read the amazon delisted titles list yourself and google their covers and you would know instantly there's almost no underage nudity. Who's spreading that piece of false info, I'm really curious.

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@Cyberbeing

I don't really think it's underage nudity, that's a lie. Amazon is delisting a lot of the mainstream titles and niche titles like a random shotgun. If Bakarina and No Game No Life count as underage nudity, then I'm a giraffe.

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Amazon delisted items and pre-orders from:

Bakarina (Like wtf is offensive in this? Foreheads?)
No Game No Life
Grimgar of Fantasy and Ash
The Greatest Magicmaster’s Retirement Plan
I Shall Survive Using Potions
How Not to Summon a Demon Lord
Clockwork Planet. (Yeah.... this is literally a character story on a clockwork planet)


https://forums.j-novel.club/topic/3391/books-preorders-missing-from-amazon
https://old.reddit.com/r/GGdiscussion/comments/hqw3sk/jnovel_club_amazon_delists_some_light_novels/
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2020-07-15/publishers-comment-on-amazon-kindle-delisting-of-at-least-15-light-novels-manga/.161872

Anyone have the Amazon delisted Yen Press title list or a Yen Press thread on the topic, post it please.

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Oh and while I have your attention, Infinite Stratos Volume 3 got delisted off Amazon. The rest of the series did not.........yeah, Amazon took the dumb dumb juice here too. I would not put much trust in Amazon's competence to avoid dumb ideas.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07CQ8JX41?ref_=series_rw_dp_labf

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@NodiX

Tencent, China? This vid is mostly about twitter posts and reactions. And your third point makes no sense from what I can see, see above for a short example list of titles Amazon delisted. It's really tame stuff mostly.
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*edit2: 7/20/20
*edit 3: Trying to reword. No flamewar.

 

[NodiX]

@crazybars

Wtf are you talking about? The vid is mostly about twitter posts and reactions.

I talking that because this thread seems to point to Japan vs Amazon as country vs company. My first point mostly reaction for the first post in this page.

And ur third point makes no sense, see above titles Amazon delisted.

I guess you're not familiar with how Amazon operates. Even contents with romance beyond holding hands with characters below 18 most likely not safe from Amazon's ban hammer.

In addition to user report and manual screening, the company is also using algorithm to catch offending contents. In case a book is falsely pulled from their platform, authors/publishers usually can contact Amazon through email and if they are lucky they can get it back online after a few editing and republishing. Most authors who contact them only get vague answers though.

EDIT:

*edit 2: Which media outlet is saying the Amazon delistings are about Underage nudity? Why does this keep popping up? You can read the amazon delisted titles list yourself and google their covers and you would know instantly there's almost no underage nudity. Who's spreading that piece of false info, I'm really curious.

It doesn't have to contain underage nudity for Amazon to pull books.

 

[crazybars]

@NodiX

Yeah, but why Tencent China?


Ah booo. So the Amazon listings are reviewed and delisted by these people with no concrete rules?? Damn, that's disappointing

 

[NodiX]

@crazybars

Yeah, but why Tencent China?

Because in the video the only time Japan gets mentioned as country (government) when the youtuber talks about Tencent expansion in earlier part of the video.

Ah booo. So the Amazon listings are reviewed and delisted by these people with no concrete rules?? Damn, that's disappointing

Many indie authors stopped publishing exclusively through Kindle Select because Amazon is infamous for this.

 

[crazybars]

@NodiX

Was talking about Japan's general public, specifically the Anime Manga industry. Japanese gov not involved, though from the extreme angry and worried twitter activity from Japan's Anime Manga industry, that will probably change in the future,

 

[NodiX]

@crazybars

Was talking about Japan's general public, specifically the Anime Manga industry. Japanese gov not involved, though from the extreme angry and worried twitter activity from Japan's Anime Manga industry, that will probably change in the future,

I doubt this case is industry scale problem, even. Amazon doesn't seem targeting manga or light novel specifically, since many still up in their search page. A few novels caught in Amazon's book pulling spree is already happened a few times in the past. It's because the publisher is a big shot in international light novel community (YenPress) getting involved instead of indie authors without backing that people are more vocal about it.

Likewise, Amazon Kindle is not the only platform that sells digital books. If YenPress couldn't manage to get their delisted books back to Kindle store, they can still going wide by publishing pulled books on other retailers.

 

[MangaMonger]

The thread title is an exaggeration. I've seen Japanese tweets with a few hundred retweets that point out this controversy, but the reaction of Japanese people is "lol" or "ah yes, foreigners are really restrictive about sexual things / characters who're minors". In fact, the one retweet I saw had misinformation, probably because the person who shared this news can't read English well.

My opinion: Like others have said, protest with your wallet, and buy from other sites. Don't jump to conclusions. Maybe these incidents have more to do the influence of payment processors, who have certain complex attitudes regarding content that could be considered pornographic due to things like a high rate of chargebacks, than these sites themselves disliking Japan's culture. Above all, I hope that Japan doesn't let this controversy stifle their creativity. Listen to smart people like Akamatsu and treat your manga industry with care. Trust me, the foreigners actually like it, and are just being tsundere.

 

[crazybars]

@NodiX
@MangaMonger

Well, context is everything. It doesn't seem linked or important to us, but the Industry itself is already lobbying heavily against censorship within Japan. When this shit happens repeatedly and then censors them in America >>>

https://boundingintocomics.com/2020/02/02/for-second-time-funimation-promises-uncut-release-of-tsugumomo-delivers-censored-version-instead/
https://boundingintocomics.com/2020/02/18/funimation-edits-joke-to-remove-light-sexual-humor-in-bofuri-i-dont-want-to-get-hurt-so-ill-max-out-my-defense/
https://boundingintocomics.com/2020/03/06/sentai-filmworks-changes-dialogue-to-explicitly-reference-misogyny-in-dub-of-to-love-ru-anime/
https://boundingintocomics.com/2020/06/03/square-enix-censors-maams-martial-artist-outfit-for-upcoming-dragon-quest-adventures-of-dai-mobile-game/


You get people like Ken Akamatsu who's the mangaka of Love Hina testifying in the Japanese diet House of Councilors his concerns over manga censorship dictated by foreign governments.

https://boundingintocomics.com/2020/07/07/love-hina-mangaka-warns-about-a-future-where-japanese-works-are-regulated-by-foreign-standards/
https://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2020/06/29/love-hina-manga-creator-discusses-mangas-freedom-of-expression-with-japanese-government

"This month, I was invited to participate in a House of Councillors witness questioning session, but instead, a member of the DIET [Japanese government] asked me, 'What measures are needed for Japanese manga need to survive in the world?' I replied, "First and foremost, freedom of expression. Compared to other countries, Japan's forte is its freedom of creativity. However, with foreign platforms becoming more and more dominant, I would like to avoid a situation where Japanese works are regulated by foreign standards.'"

I've been watching this for 2 months, there's been a constant stream of whacky anti- Manga/ Anime merch and media censorships moves from the American companies like Funimation, Viz and now Amazon. Oddly, a lot of it is also from Australia, so wtf. But as the article says, the Japanese diet has already agreed to begin planning for a manuscript storage to fight censorship. *shrug.


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-------------------------------For the curious, Note on biases
There's more material on Clownfish tv. They're kinda my go to guys on rumor news for Media entertainment censorship because they always have their sources on screen for you to double check and I myself don't find insane Anti-Wokening ranting by Tim Poole effective. You gotta say why it's bad, not chant a useless slogan usually used like an insult.

And yes most of these articles and vids lean towards conservatism because they're all against self censorship over political correctness so unfortunately the coverage is skewed by political affiliation. Plus I'm lazy, Bounding into Comics usually backs their claims with tweets, sources we can double check etc.

 

[phoenix_eD]

@carbotaniuman
Random derail. But I see a new Red~
Must be one of the Symphony dev that's recruited recently, I reckon..

 

[NodiX]

@crazybars

Well, context is everything. It doesn't seem linked or important to us, but the Industry itself is already lobbying heavily against censorship within Japan. When this shit happens repeatedly and then censors them in America >>>

https://boundingintocomics.com/2020/02/02/for-second-time-funimation-promises-uncut-release-of-tsugumomo-delivers-censored-version-instead/
https://boundingintocomics.com/2020/02/18/funimation-edits-joke-to-remove-light-sexual-humor-in-bofuri-i-dont-want-to-get-hurt-so-ill-max-out-my-defense/
https://boundingintocomics.com/2020/03/06/sentai-filmworks-changes-dialogue-to-explicitly-reference-misogyny-in-dub-of-to-love-ru-anime/
https://boundingintocomics.com/2020/06/03/square-enix-censors-maams-martial-artist-outfit-for-upcoming-dragon-quest-adventures-of-dai-mobile-game/

While context is everything, I don't know why a company that probably has little clue on all this rage about becomes the main spotlight for this thread's title. Some people here already misled into thinking that Amazon really hates anime. Though on another note, it's probably a valid concern if foreign companies distributors like Funimation do have the final say to deliver the cut of censored edition. (But again, if a studio or an author don't want for foreign entity to interfere with their works, they can just avoid publishing with third party known to regulate their peers' works.)

 

[crazybars]

@NodiX

My bad, I will add this in the initial post. Amazon did this 4 months ago.

amazon-removes-various-anime-figures-including-hatsune-miku-and-kaito-tenshi-twin-angel-from-storefront-claiming-items-promote-child-exploitation

https://boundingintocomics.com/2020/03/05/amazon-removes-various-anime-figures-including-hatsune-miku-and-kaito-tenshi-twin-angel-from-storefront-claiming-items-promote-child-exploitation/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeOCPVZ0YQM

 

[carbryvietia]

@phoenix_eD ye I just show up red even when I'm not speaking officially. Not like reddit mods where they can toggle lol.

 

[Highlander]

Wait, those removed items contained real life children that were being exploited?

 

[Halo]

@Highlander
It works like this https://youtu.be/usYJqg4O3LU except with every banned weeb book, a child gets released from exploitation.

 

[precognicent]

God, why does discussion about "censorship" and the Anime community always have the worse track record.

@crazybars, I understand you actually see your biases but why post "Anti-SJW" youtube content as a source but not only that post stuff from the Gamergate Discussion subreddit, a suspicious "news" website like "boundingintocomics" and "J-novel" forum with nearly 30 replies. Man, you aren't looking at unbiased sources at all; at least get a source that isn't that biased.

Partaking in the discussion here, What annoys me when talking about "censorship" with the anime community is that it often leads to misinformation, fabrication and mob mentality. I get it. Censorship is a touchy subject but man, we suck at discussing it in a reasonable fashion. When onlookers view the anime community and see Elementary School girls depicted in a lewd fashion we defend it to our dying breath instead of being introspective with the media we view. Like some of the LN/manga de-listed by Amazon are questionable to say the least. You can't tell me with a straight face that NGNL, How Not to Summon a Demon Lord, Eromanga Sensei and Oreimo isn't fucking suspect. People clamor about Westernization and shit but isn't it better to shed a more critical view on the media even from foreign countries and get more gems instead of the shitty "Insanely long light novel title with a nonsensical appeal to whatever is somewhat popular to adolescent males" we have been receiving.

How about we actually analyze the media we partake instead of defending the shitty parts to the death. I will defend to the death the fact that Oreimo and Eromanga Sensei is shit anime, though.

 

[crazybars]

@precognicent

Believe it or not, most of the people who first cared enough to notice and post articles were conservative, which means the coverage will likely be conservative. What I would like even better is a big news company Kron 4 or ABC backing the article so I don't have to explain anything about the bias, but not happening sadly, it's too niche so I feel like I need to.

I cited Bounding into comics because they post the twitter and source links within itself you can double check. You can do the same on Clownfish tv by checking the websites on their screen.

These incidents are not really getting much mainstream coverage. I would prefer a slightly biased website (with REALLY biased comments) over digging links out of a useless biased opinion article by oneangrygamer etc.
--------------------------------
Look at what I have to work with for sources lol.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Amazon+Removes+Various+Anime+Figures+&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b

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Reddit
*lol. Useful but not on it's own.
-----
Ann
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2020-01-03/the-worst-anime-of-2019-and-our-mega-poll-results/.155020
* You think I would trust a site that said best seller Tate no Yuusha was worst anime of 2019 and plays politics all the time?

https://old.reddit.com/r/shieldbro/comments/glzgnh/so_according_to_ann_shield_hero_has_the_worst/

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https://nyannet.com/
*Wow, didn't know pornhub took down stuff too. But this is probably politically conservative yeah?

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https://animemotivation.com/amazon-removes-j-novel-clubs-light-novel-manga/#search-lightbox
https://animemotivation.com/anime-woke-culture/
*.... same right? Biased similarly to Bounding into Comics

At least I found this gem. A thread on official Amazon.com from sellers who were not happy the 1st time this happened.
This is a primary source. It's as good as I can get easily. T_T
https://sellercentral.amazon.com/forums/t/amazon-has-now-identified-all-anime-as-kiddie-porn/588120?page=2

 

[Halo]

Out of all New Game characters, this normie clown used Ko 😬

 

[firelight]

Man, you aren't looking at unbiased sources at all; at least get a source that isn't that biased.

Waaah anything I don't like is biased!
Completely ignored the normal anime figures that Amazon removed.