@ShadowofOblivion
While I acknowledge the fact that my bringing up fujoshis was a simplistic take on a complicated argument, I want to point out how you failed to acknowledge the other points in my previous post. You’ve kept repeatedly linking wikipedia articles on this matter, and while they are good at informing people, often times wikipedia posts do not capture the complexity of an issue. This is why I invite you to read the following works so that you can understand and see how your view of yaoi as not equivalent to the content you desire is a dated, and untrue, opinion.
“Queer Comics and LGBT in Comparative Perspective” by Helis Sikk (2020) and “Japanese gay men’s attitudes towards ‘gay manga’ and the problem of genre” by Thomas Baudinette (2015). The two papers also have a long reference list that you can read should you become more interested.
Yes, yaoi came to be as a feminist critique of the male-dominated manga industry and as a way for women mangaka to challenge the long-held female tropes in Japan. This is why characters in the genre did not admit to being gay or bi. This was true in the late to mid 90s and during the “yaoi wars” (a discursive clash between yaoi authors and gay men).
However, as technology improved and perusal of this media became wide spread, this has since become a misconception. Yaoi, Bara as well as Gei-Komi, are now seen as parts of broad category of what’s classified as “gay manga.” And here, I want to quote Hikk’s own words: “… recent scholarship has found that young gay men today find BL [yaoi] more realistic because it focuses on romance and allows them to be more vulnerable and passive.”
Hikk cited Baudinette’s study to support their statement. In Baudinette’s paper, they conducted a study and found that, while yaoi (BL) and gei-komi differ in style, they are viewed by the LGBT community both inside and outside of Japan as a “valid yet fantastic depiction” of queer relationships. Here are two direct quotes from the study:
“[Participants of the study] each stated that they believed BL and geikomi depict two different yet ultimately fantastic and complementary discourses of gay desire and identity.”
“The stylistic differences found between BL and geikomi were reported as presenting two equally valid depictions of gay/gei subjectivity.”
I want to add that, in Baudinette’s study, while Gei-Komi was found to have been used as a masturbation tool by gay men more often than Yaoi has been, it wasn’t because it was “more authentic” than the other. Rather, it was simply because the physical appearances of the characters were easier for the participants to relate to, so this may have just been the participants’ preferences coming into play. Additionally, consuming these two forms of media allowed them to have “two different yet equally valid understandings of same-sex desire.”
Anyway, the fact that yaoi, bara, ang gei-komi are not seen as distinct forms but rather as parts of queer/gay manga allows authors to mix themes, topics and style. This echoes by the dynamic and multilayered nature of queer manga readership which this negates your belief that yaoi can only be for heterosexual women, by heterosexual women. Additionally, with technology, people from various cultures have been able to consume yaoi and other queer types of comics. This resulted in definitions between categories/genres getting blurred.
In summary: Yes, yaoi started out as a media for heterosexual women, but this changed over time. LGBT individuals have begun to see it as a media that is able to represent their experiences and thoughts. Audiences (LGBT members included) outside of Japan have also come into the picture, became influenced by it, and shaped it into their own (that is to say, they mixed yaoi and gei-komi concepts together to create queer content) so that the definition of yaoi isn't so clear-cut. Yaoi is no longer just a medium for women to explore sexual themes that were previously restricted to them. Also, Gei-Komi is still viewed by most as the more explicit form of yaoi and with a preference for a more masculine type of aesthetic (muscular, big build, more hair). It has a reputation of being made by gay men for gay men, yes. But this does not make it the one exclusive genre for people in the LGBT community to read.
This is your opinion. It is not fact. It is not even a widely-supported opinion. Meanings can change and the subjective meaning of words, especially those used to classify a genre, can change. Non-Japanese speakers are also limited by language in this regard. But as gay men themselves decide how to view, understand, and use yaoi texts, it is apparent that the conventional definition of yaoi (that it is only for heterosexual women) is no longer true.
Again, I invite you to read the two papers I mentioned. They're rather short and they make a more compelling argument than I ever could.
Homophobia will not go away just by the implementation of a new a tag system to your liking. And you yourself have admitted that you can’t think of a way to implement the tagging system you desire. Lastly, your admission that heterosexual females can also draw Bara/Gei-Komi makes it difficult since Gei-Komi is supposed to be (by your understanding) a genre by gay men. In fact, it just hammers in how difficult it would be to create this tag system you envision.
So, if you really desire to be spared from content that isn't to your liking: use MangaUpdates, read reviews, look for recommendation lists.
While I acknowledge the fact that my bringing up fujoshis was a simplistic take on a complicated argument, I want to point out how you failed to acknowledge the other points in my previous post. You’ve kept repeatedly linking wikipedia articles on this matter, and while they are good at informing people, often times wikipedia posts do not capture the complexity of an issue. This is why I invite you to read the following works so that you can understand and see how your view of yaoi as not equivalent to the content you desire is a dated, and untrue, opinion.
“Queer Comics and LGBT in Comparative Perspective” by Helis Sikk (2020) and “Japanese gay men’s attitudes towards ‘gay manga’ and the problem of genre” by Thomas Baudinette (2015). The two papers also have a long reference list that you can read should you become more interested.
Yes, yaoi came to be as a feminist critique of the male-dominated manga industry and as a way for women mangaka to challenge the long-held female tropes in Japan. This is why characters in the genre did not admit to being gay or bi. This was true in the late to mid 90s and during the “yaoi wars” (a discursive clash between yaoi authors and gay men).
However, as technology improved and perusal of this media became wide spread, this has since become a misconception. Yaoi, Bara as well as Gei-Komi, are now seen as parts of broad category of what’s classified as “gay manga.” And here, I want to quote Hikk’s own words: “… recent scholarship has found that young gay men today find BL [yaoi] more realistic because it focuses on romance and allows them to be more vulnerable and passive.”
Hikk cited Baudinette’s study to support their statement. In Baudinette’s paper, they conducted a study and found that, while yaoi (BL) and gei-komi differ in style, they are viewed by the LGBT community both inside and outside of Japan as a “valid yet fantastic depiction” of queer relationships. Here are two direct quotes from the study:
“[Participants of the study] each stated that they believed BL and geikomi depict two different yet ultimately fantastic and complementary discourses of gay desire and identity.”
“The stylistic differences found between BL and geikomi were reported as presenting two equally valid depictions of gay/gei subjectivity.”
I want to add that, in Baudinette’s study, while Gei-Komi was found to have been used as a masturbation tool by gay men more often than Yaoi has been, it wasn’t because it was “more authentic” than the other. Rather, it was simply because the physical appearances of the characters were easier for the participants to relate to, so this may have just been the participants’ preferences coming into play. Additionally, consuming these two forms of media allowed them to have “two different yet equally valid understandings of same-sex desire.”
Anyway, the fact that yaoi, bara, ang gei-komi are not seen as distinct forms but rather as parts of queer/gay manga allows authors to mix themes, topics and style. This echoes by the dynamic and multilayered nature of queer manga readership which this negates your belief that yaoi can only be for heterosexual women, by heterosexual women. Additionally, with technology, people from various cultures have been able to consume yaoi and other queer types of comics. This resulted in definitions between categories/genres getting blurred.
In summary: Yes, yaoi started out as a media for heterosexual women, but this changed over time. LGBT individuals have begun to see it as a media that is able to represent their experiences and thoughts. Audiences (LGBT members included) outside of Japan have also come into the picture, became influenced by it, and shaped it into their own (that is to say, they mixed yaoi and gei-komi concepts together to create queer content) so that the definition of yaoi isn't so clear-cut. Yaoi is no longer just a medium for women to explore sexual themes that were previously restricted to them. Also, Gei-Komi is still viewed by most as the more explicit form of yaoi and with a preference for a more masculine type of aesthetic (muscular, big build, more hair). It has a reputation of being made by gay men for gay men, yes. But this does not make it the one exclusive genre for people in the LGBT community to read.
This is your opinion. It is not fact. It is not even a widely-supported opinion. Meanings can change and the subjective meaning of words, especially those used to classify a genre, can change. Non-Japanese speakers are also limited by language in this regard. But as gay men themselves decide how to view, understand, and use yaoi texts, it is apparent that the conventional definition of yaoi (that it is only for heterosexual women) is no longer true.
Again, I invite you to read the two papers I mentioned. They're rather short and they make a more compelling argument than I ever could.
Homophobia will not go away just by the implementation of a new a tag system to your liking. And you yourself have admitted that you can’t think of a way to implement the tagging system you desire. Lastly, your admission that heterosexual females can also draw Bara/Gei-Komi makes it difficult since Gei-Komi is supposed to be (by your understanding) a genre by gay men. In fact, it just hammers in how difficult it would be to create this tag system you envision.
So, if you really desire to be spared from content that isn't to your liking: use MangaUpdates, read reviews, look for recommendation lists.
