Onii-chan Is Done For! - Vol. 9 Ch. 83.9 - Minato-kun is Done For? (Full Version)

[Narehate]

ill take the bait - who are you talking about?

also man this turned into a twitter thread lmao

If you read enough crossdressing/GB manga you’ll know him eventually.

 

[olivetho]

Yeah she's even more trans than Mahiro somehow. Mihari get her some juice

while I'm still firmly in the camp of mahiro being a guy since we haven't seen anything from him explicitly saying otherwise (at least not around people who know about his true identity), i still think that calling mahiro "trans" is enby erasure.

I've met and I know both enbies and trans people, and i can tell you for a fact that if mahiro being a guy is out of the equation, then his behaviour  much more closely resembles that of an enby than that of a trans - the (rather violent) back-and-forth between mahiro doing middle-school girl things and mahiro insisting on showing his manly side is a perfect testament to that fact.

however, more than either of those, the most dominant "lgbt" perspective in this story so far (and one that I've somehow yet to see get mentioned before) is actually that of mahiro being used as a mere vessel to represent the experience of a mostly-closeted trans  guy if anything, but with the whole thing being done in such a way that avoids the whole "trans" label - and the backlash that comes with it.


just my 2 (3?) cents on this whole thing though

 

[dy4y]

i still think that calling mahiro "trans" is enby erasure.

Nonbinary people are trans though so...
Also, Mahiro's experiences align 100% with the experiences of some binary trans women. The insistence on being a man for instance is something I used to do all the time when I was younger

And personally I don't really think the story works as a metaphor for transmasc people. The story explicitly shows Mahiro's life becoming happier and better after they started living life as a girl which is kind of contradictory with the whole transmasc experience.
Though it's still a valid interpretation of the story. Just not one I personally agree with

 

[manabi]

Also, not to put words in your mouth, but "Getting aroused by yourself dressed as a girl disqualifies you from self-identifying trans" is also dangerously close to the toxic autogynephilia narrative. (especially since one would be surprised how common it is for cis AFAB people to experience something similar)

And then you went ahead and put words in my mouth anyways, making it seem like I said something toxic. I don't appreciate that, thus my strike reaction. I think it makes it clear you're not discussing this in good faith, hoping for an echo chamber instead.

I think the largest source of moderately inappropriate fun could be had from it being a cross dressing fetish, though, so that's probably where it'll go.

I do think that's the most likely intention, especially since Nekotofu's not made Mahiro trans even though we're up to 83+ chapters. Mahiro still thinks of himself internally as a boy, even though he's clearly enjoying being both a girl and underage again. (Like his happily asking for New Year's money from the families of his friends in chapter 83.)

 

[olivetho]

The story explicitly shows Mahiro's life becoming happier and better after they started living life as a girl

i think that has more to do with the "living life" part than with the "as a girl" part lmao.

it looks to me as if it was most likely meant as a jab/wakeup call aimed at the neet (or neet-like) demographic - which is probably a majority of the audience lol

 

[smolbaka]

1 trans girl shows up in this manga and immediately people start suggesting she's a crossdresser.

Bruh. It's like trans girls can't just find out they are transgendered without someone thinking she's just crossdressing.

---

See it goes both ways.

If people want to currently view Minato as a trans girl, cool.

If people want to currently view Minato as being a GNC boy, cool.

No need to be so negative.

"Omg a crossdressing male character who likes crossdressing? Yeah that's totally a trans woman in denial!!!"

Gender role's biggest enforcer.

 

[smolbaka]

If you read enough crossdressing/GB manga you’ll know him eventually.

You're obsessed with me, just admit it... You love me so much you stalk my twitter account or something

But sorry I'm not interested

 

[AverageDudeWithAveragePenis]

Mahiro is a conundrum of a character. It doesn't matter to me how you feel about him or what you think he is to you. Trans rep included. But I do not know how you could describe Minato as "trans-y" or whatever, considering how he doesn't ever utter any mention of wanting to be a full fledged female.

I think people's lack of experience with otokonoko culture is showing. There are men who like crossdressing and being feminine in this world, that doesn't make them a trans woman. This is a often misconception that I constantly see and I don't get it.

Being feminine and dressing like a girl doesn't make someone a woman.

How hard is that to understand?

 

[Narehate]

You're obsessed with me, just admit it... You love me so much you stalk my twitter account or something

But sorry I'm not interested

I just want you to out on that dress over there and fuck me, pretty boy.

 

[smolbaka]

I just want you to out on that dress over there and fuck me, pretty boy.

Pls stop talking to me. I will be ignoring your attempts to bait me into replying to you from now on.

 

[Narehate]

Pls stop talking to me. I will be ignoring your attempts to bait me into replying to you from now on.

I like it when you play hard to get.

 

[MidnighTea]

And then you went ahead and put words in my mouth anyways, making it seem like I said something toxic. I don't appreciate that, thus my strike reaction. I think it makes it clear you're not discussing this in good faith, hoping for an echo chamber instead.

I apologize if I came off a little strong. I'm not arguing in bad faith -- I don't know who you are, I can only go by what you say. That's just what it looked like you were saying; that the presence or absence of boners should factor into self-identification. If you agree that's a toxic argument, I think we're on the same side.

I might be a touch sensitive from having to deal with truscum in the past. You never know when they'll show up. Thankfully they're much rarer these days. (they were almost ubiquitous online at the turn of the millenium)

 

[MidnighTea]

"Omg a crossdressing male character who likes crossdressing? Yeah that's totally a trans woman in denial!!!"

Gender role's biggest enforcer.

I actually agree with you on this. The trans community has a tendency to create and cling to certain narratives for dear life. (it doesn't help the world often demands they account for their own existence thus necessitating cohesive narratives)
The problem is that often the narrative can leave a LOT of people out in the cold or unrepresented. Including otokonoko and general enbies.

A major narrative I've always disliked is the whole... "egg awaiting to hatch" concept, where the existence of their ideal gender identity is pre-destined. That can be true for a lot of people but it's not a x=1 y'know? It wasn't true of me, anyway.

I'll definitely concede that it's textually more interesting for this gender bender manga to have one gender bender character (Mahiro) and one otokonoko (Minato). That said if people enjoy the idea of Minato as a nascent trans girl, I can definitely see it and hope they're not too disappointed when the canon isn't likely to go that way. Not because I don't think an otokonoko can't be a great way to explore that liminal gender identity space (hello Bridget) but because Onimai just isn't the kind of work that dives deep into identity.

 

[Kingkhalil001]

Indubitably would

 

[Niko200104]

I want him to run into mahiro so mahiro can tell him that he will keep it a secret while striking a slightly lewd pose (like always)

 

[Fed-Kun]

I swear, half of this comment section is literally something about "Cross-dressing", "Trans", or something gender related and arguments.

I came looking for funny comments, didn't think I'll see this shit.

 

[Izuma95]

Here comes the whole trans vs non- trans debate again. Honestly, can we all just acknowledge how cute Minato is without being too political about the whole thing. I guess some people just want to incite something and like to get into a political debate about gender while here I'm just trying admire Minato cuteness.

 

[heavyisdead]

its joever

 

[himi-cat]

I do think that's the most likely intention, especially since Nekotofu's not made Mahiro trans even though we're up to 83+ chapters. Mahiro still thinks of himself internally as a boy, even though he's clearly enjoying being both a girl and underage again. (Like his happily asking for New Year's money from the families of his friends in chapter 83.)

I don't think that reading of Mahiro is really justified - Mahiro hasn't fundamentally changed, so the argument can definitely be made that there's been no change in gender identity, either . . . but taking that to mean Mahiro is clearly masculine presupposes that Mahiro was always cis-gendered, and there's no particularly strong reason to believe that (at this point). Yes, statistically speaking it may be a reasonable assumption, but looking at Mahiro as an individual I don't think it's necessarily a good one.

Mahiro was assigned male at birth, and clearly grew up accepting and internalising that, but at the same time it's pretty clear there was never any careful consideration behind it. Being genderbent forced that consideration, but being genderbent forcefully actually made that consideration harder, because it's natural to push back against being forced into something like that. But Mahiro adjusted pretty quickly - in fact, it ended up making very little difference early on, and it was only when social challenges came along that physical versus mental gender expression had any significance. Even then, Mahiro quickly got very comfortable with presenting as feminine . . . even though there's also still a definite tendency towards the old stereotypically masculine behaviour and patterns of thought. And I don't think you can say Mahiro has ever shown any particular discomfort with being either a girl or a boy - it just doesn't seem to be that important. Given all that, at the moment I'd be inclined to say that non-binary would be the best description - neither one nor the other, with no clear preference, and a significant amount of fluidity. Maybe that will change, but for now I think it's really hard to say that there's a clear preference one way or another.

All that said, if you asked Mahiro right now "are you a girl or a boy?" I expect the answer would be "a man!", and . . . . well, that's generally what matters most. But if instead you asked "would you prefer to keep living as a girl, or go back to your old life?" I think you might get a different response; at the very least I expect you'd get a long pause before getting a response, and I'd probably give fifty/fifty odds on which answer you'd get.

Which is a large part of why I think Mahiro's gender identity is mostly irrelevant, rather than being central to the story - the genderbending is there to break Mahiro's old life open, rather than as a specific challenge to anyone's gender identity, and the story is really about breaking out of the unhealthy mindset that was ruining Mahiro's life.

Minato's side story might end up being a real consideration of gender identity, though, which would be a nice adjunct to the main story . . .

 

[TanyaV]

THE DOUJIN BECOME CANON