Orenchi ni Kita Onna Kishi to Inakagurashi Surukotoninatta Ken - Vol. 4 Ch. 27 - Young hero

[cor3zone]

@WillLi Getting real snippy there, watch it.

First task: introducing new caretakers/observers increases the contact points, thus the risk of a breach. Dangerous.
Second task: the entirety of chapter 18 hammers home the risk of unknown pathogens. If she starts a rampage, maybe she kills a few thousands before they bring her down. If she's carrying diseases that spread, you're looking at a possible extinction-level event. A few thousand vs. all of humanity. There's a risk either way, they chose the lesser evil.

 

[bladestorm91]

@WillLi

The second is refereeing to whether or not the government depicted is acting with good sense

Ok, now I get what you are saying, but what is the point of this though? Do we want governments in stories to act in good sense? It would make some arcs in some stories really mundane.

There could be an argument to write such good sense governments so they can be shown to anyone as a best case example of how things are supposed to be run, but I don't think a series for a young-ish audience is the best place to write such governments in. Maybe it is so it gives a good impression to young people, but I don't find it necessary as that's not the focus of this particular series (at least not yet).

 

[WillLi]

@cor3zone
First one; inadequate answer, because I said they coudl've replaced someone from the start, so still had it at 3. No 'new' contact points.
Second Answer; this is also a failure, but cause I am not talking about releasing her from quarantine, in fact I have specifically said there is no problem with that.

0/2 go back to school and try again.

@bladestorm91 There is no 'point' in it. I specifically said I wasn't going to argue about it cause I already know this author doesn't write sensible governments, so it was no surprise to me, you guys came at me wanting me to justify myself.

 

[cor3zone]

@WillLi They needed those three for specific tasks, or they wouldn't be chosen. For a mental health specialist, they would have needed to add someone. Replacing is less than ideal, since then you have someone not doing work, but can't be released because of quarantine.
No problem with releasing her from quarantine? Do you understand the concept of quarantine? As soon as she was deemed no-risk, she was released. The second question was:

the second is to explain how pissing of the person that could potentially have superhuman powers that could result in your nation's destruction is not risking your nation's people. You keep saying that it's a danger, but you have yet to show how.

Pissing her off is a risk, but lesser than letting her out. I proved the danger, with a source I might add.

Now you're the one wilfully ignoring my post.

Sidenote: Why do you demand the author to write "sensible governments"? The governments in our world could hardly be called sensible most of the time.

 

[WillLi]

@cor3zone so now you're making the assumption that absolutely no one was qualified to take care of emotional health as well as do their job. Yeah that's a really good way to answer the question, a baseless unprovable assumption. Second, I said there was no problem -with- the quarantine, not with releasing her, actually read my statements. Never once have I suggested to let her go free, everything I have suggested has been 'during quarantine' even if you misread that one post, how can you come to the conclusion I'm talking about letting her go free? So try again.

 

[cor3zone]

@WillLi So any nurse or doctor is also trained in psychology? Any therapist is also a trained nurse or doctor? And they're all familiar intimately with the scientific process of observing an alien with possible world-ending powers, right? Right, no problem. I'm amazed they haven't cured all illnesses, mental and physical, if everyone is so competent.

cause I am not talking about releasing her from quarantine, in fact I have specifically said there is no problem with that.

The way you worded that makes it seem like you see no problem with releasing her. Sorry for misunderstanding a vague sentence, I guess.

 

[WillLi]

@cor3zone no not -any- nurse is trained in both, but you're making the assumption that -none- are qualified to do both jobs. It's also not as if they need all 3 to be familiar with tee process, they only need one to be familiar and explain what to do each day. We only need 1 person to be used, and honestly going from 3 to 4 people isn't that big a deal, but it is much more likely that one of the 3 can be replaced, either because the knowledge they have can be conveyed, or their skills are redundant, or someone has their skills and a new set of skills, than it is likely that they have 3 absolutely unreplaceable people.

And you wouldn't have misunderstood the sentence if you were busy trying to understand what I'm saying and not trying to prove me wrong. I'm not even sure you actually understand what it is that I am proposing at this point.

 

[cor3zone]

@WillLi I take what you write word-for-word. It's not my job to understand what you actually meant, but didn't write. You're the one who should make your point clear, and not crack down on misunderstandings caused by your words.

Like I said, the country took the decision knowing the risks. The would have chosen the people most suitable for the task, very carefully. I doubt they would bring in one researcher and 2-3 nurses/doctors. All would be highly trained professionals. They chose not to bring in a therapist, because to them she's not a person. She's a dirty bomb, with WMD powers. Adding 1 more person is an straight up 33% increase in risk of extinction.

Also, I notice you ignored my question about "sensible governments". Very interesting tactic.

 

[WillLi]

@cor3zone The post you yourself quoted from me shows me saying it isn't the quarantine I'm talking about that was inhumane. I just emphasized how important that was. You're taking all these logical leaps and assumptions with your defense, but you can't even assume that my own argument is consistent when a statement that can be interpreted two ways shows up.

As for your second paragraph. Yes they all would be trained professionals, no one is debating that. The question is are they -irreplaceable- . Yes they were careful in who they chose, but we can already tell from what happened they did not include mental care into their criteria. I am simply proposing the likely scenario that if they tried to find someone for mental care, they'd have found someone with at least a little ability to do it with a skill still sufficient to replace one of the 3. It doesn't have to be a fully trained therapist to be -better- than what they had. This is where your binary thought pattern falls short. The problem here is that there is zero effort put into humane treatment. I am not saying they should be perfect, but there is no apparent effort at all, that is what makes the government senseless. If there was an attempt at it and it still failed, that wouldn't be 'senseless' that would just be "they failed at it. So any measure of improvement warrants a better standing with them even if not perfect.

And I didn't ignore your statement how about you once again read my post to blade, I answered that in the last post I made to him.

 

[criver]

@cor3zone
Disclaimer - I am not presenting those so we can have a debate over them, since I am sure you will come up with various reasons to defend the manga - it's just that those reason will not be in the manga itself, but will be your conjectures or whatever. If you can factually disprove them - as in they are not in the manga, then sure - go ahead.

Chapter 1:
Weak exposition consisting of just writing out minimal details to present the setting and forced interactions, cliche developments. Could be improved upon through "show don't tell", and obviously fixing the interactions.
First few pages: Irrelevant filler details regarding the current weather (which has no impact on the story) - introducing his summer vegetables could haven been omitted, it was already mentioned that he quit his job to become a farmer.
Page 10 and on: The interactions feel forced, artificial and rushed. You can argue that this is subjective or chalk it up to her being "an alien" I don't mind either way. From her perspective she supposedly tells some peasant her actual name (if he knows she's a noble, she can be held for ransom), age, and military information just because he asked. And obviously he questions nothing, and she warms up to him in a matter of 3 panels.
Obvious cliche bath scene, and him barging in - that's as low effort as it gets in terms of tropy and cliche developments. Note that nothing really happens for about 10 pages, and the whole buildup is really to that one scene.
The culmination of the chapter seems to emphasize the self-control of our MC, implying that he's achieving some kind of feat by not raping her.

Chapter 2:
The first few pages are ok.
Then we're fed more of "the MC is a gentleman" in a pretty blatant manner - nothing wrong with that except maybe the boring execution.
Surprisingly she's not in a rush to continue on her journey and convey whatever she was tasked with, but rather leisurely has breakfast and chats with the MC.
It's almost as if she's there only so that there would be a "beautiful exotic young woman" for the MC, because let's be fair - that's the bread and butter of the manga (yes, it is a stupid premise,
the issue here is that it is coupled with unimaginative and poor execution).
I can't really buy the fact that she's like a kid in a candy shop, and we see no worry or rush while she's eating - she's more preoccupied with the chopsticks and itadakimasu than her missions, resulting in no feeling of urgency. Which should be there - the manga is simply logically inconsistent in that regard.
The chapter culminates with... her eating...
Pretty anticlimatic and inconsistent considering what we were presented with in the exposition.

Chapter 3
Suddenly she remembers she has to go to the capital - after about 1 day of entirely ignoring her mission.
She's somehow not bothered going without her armour and weapon to where she was attacked by orcs.
The teleportation scroll is introduced post factum, to somehow explain how she appeared in this world.
She confirms she has been using magic to speak with him, which clearly illustrates that she had no reason to trust him as much as she does in the first place.
Unless you want to argue that somehow in her world people do not ever have disputes with each other, and neighbouring countries all get along extremely well (we're talking about medieval times to boot).

Chapter 4:
Literally a filler, unless you consider the first two pages to be the whole chapter.
I am sure that vegetables are a key plot point, that one cannot get without - basically it's as boring as it gets. I am sure there are better sources to learn about vegetables too.
We also can make a conclusion about what seems to be becoming a recurring theme throughout the manga - about how "amazing" modern society and Japan is. Which to be fair doesn't
add much to the story - it's the same thing over and over - show the heroine something new, watch her reaction, rinse and repeat.

I'll stop here since chapter 5 is a cooking filler chapter, with more of the same, and I simply don't feel like I have to continue on to make my point.
What's more interesting, is that after the author apparently ran out of filler vegetable, cooking, and driving chapters, he went onto full bs chapters.
Starting at chapter 17, we have the epic government arc. If you go back to the comment sections of this arc, then you'll find my comments where I've explained in a lot of details why the government reaction is unrealistic, and why our MC's decision is stupid. The tldr is that basically no country would ever let some new "technology" like magic get out of their grasp - the stakes are
simply too high. And before you go on to argue that they will - do consider human history - where human rights have been trampled over when the stakes were a lot lower.
Other people have also presented various reasons why the chapter was simply unrealistic and inconsistent - the author simply didn't think it through, or didn't have the capacity to do so in the first place.

To sum it up. The author chose a stupid premise, and coupled it with his lack of talent for writing. If you can't go without some logical inconsistency over the span of 20 pages, then there's certainly some kind of issue. An even bigger issue seems to be that he doesn't have any direction, and doesn't really know where he wants the story to go, resulting in a multitude of fillers. And it's not like I expect the author to be Kafka, or write me some GoT or LoTR clone. I just want some consistent writing, but it seems that's too much to ask for. I can name manga that have had more development (and a more consistent and realistic development) in one chapter, than this one has had over 10 chapters. So this is below average even for manga.

 

[cor3zone]

@WillLi You didn't answer my question. I wasn't talking about the writing itself being sensible or not, I'm wondering why you demand a sensible government in fiction when there has never been such a thing in reality.

The quarantine was a byline in my argument, the main point was she's dangerous. I don't know why you refuted my point about her being dangerous with 'quarantine isn't a problem'. I assume nothing, I take things word-for-word. If you change your opinion on something, should I assume you haven't because you have old posts reflecting your old opinion?

Like I said, they chose the people intentionally. Meaning they never cared about her mental health in the first place. Why are we still discussing this? They didn't care. She's a danger, not a person. If she lashed out because of poor treatment, she would prove their points as far as they are concerned.

 

[cor3zone]

@criver A lot of the flaws you point out in the early chapters can be refuted with a single tag this manga has: Slice of Life. Like you said, you can't expect Kafka or GoT, because it was never intended to be that. A flaw isn't a flaw if it's intended, after all.

I agree, the writing went to absolute shit after the first chapters. I never meant that it was quality writing, I just wanted an actual discussion with actual arguments being made. At first it was mostly mud-slinging from a lot of us, me included. 'This is shit writing!' or 'You're dumb!' is not quality debate after all.😊

I hope I didn't upset you too much, and thank you for engaging me as an equal.

 

[WillLi]

@cor3zone that is the second to last post to blade this is the last one

There is no 'point' in it. I specifically said I wasn't going to argue about it cause I already know this author doesn't write sensible governments, so it was no surprise to me, you guys came at me wanting me to justify myself.

I'm not demanding anything. I am stating a fact, the government is 'senseless' and I no longer expect the author to write a sensible one. You are the ones who have demanded me to justify that statement. Now you are essentially asserting that that statement is true, and thus wasted my time by pestering me about it.

Second I din't refute your point with "quarintie isn't a problem" I refuted with "I'm not talking about letting her go", yes in the same post you misunderstood I said I'm not talking about letting her go. This is why I'm cracking down on your misunderstanding. Because the very post itself says that isn't what I'm talking about.

Your third point. The crux of my whole thing is that it is senseless to -not- care. Because that adds unneeded risk. Hence the government is acting senselessly. That also proves it was 'inhumane' which I was saying before. Literally all I've done is state facts that you agree with, and for some reason you take this as an attack because you don't like me using the word senseless.

Unless you can say that the way they acted can not be improved, with little to no risk increase and with reliability, then they acted senselessly, "like humans would" maybe, but humans can be senseless. And all I'm saying as a method to improve it would be simply to have a little effort put into her mental care at least. It's not 'needed' according to you, but it'd have lowered the risk by your own admission because you admit pissing her off would increase the risk, which they did indeed do, she jsut isn't the type of person to go off.

 

[Homelander]

Such BS. She could be dead or a prisoner.

 

[suryaiyer13]

Wao this comment section is filled with just 3 ppl talking😮

 

[CountryMage]

@WillLi you don't understand human nature, or the scientific approach there. On the one hand, she is an unknown object showing still strange properties, they should isolate it, poke and prod it, to learn as much as they can about it, before it breaks. They cleared out the hospital, to reduce casualties, either from infection, or murderous prison break. On the other hand, she seems like a reasonable person that speaks their language, they can assume that she will follow the stated rules, and behave as they would, if specifically told to do something by an authority figure. So they poke and prod, looking for a breaking point, or the source of the fire, and they expect her to sit there and take it, because a normal person would, if told to do so. It makes no sense, people don't always make sense.

 

[cor3zone]

@WillLi First point. Skimmed that bit. Very sorry.

Second point. 'Quarantine isn't a problem', and 'not letting her go' are the same in this context. Quarantine is right, ergo don't talk about letting her go. You asked me to prove pissing her off was not a risk. I did this by proving that the quarantine in itself, regardless if she reacted negatively, was the lesser risk overall. You refuted this by saying quarantine didn't matter, 'cuz it's no problem.

Third point. You've ceded the point that government is senseless. Why expect them to act sensibly? If they are senseless, it makes sense to expect senseless decisions.

Fourth point. I'm not saying there is no absolute way to improve, or reduce risk. I'm saying in the context of the story, from the government's perspective, they did the best they were able to.

 

[WillLi]

@countrymage We're not arguing human nature or the scientific approach, we're talking about 'sensible decisions'. Also, most of what you said is just irrelevant. Actually go read my posts before trying to 'school' me on something. No one has said they shouldn't have conducted their research. No one has said they shouldn't have isolated her. The only thing I am stating is that their approach was inhumane (which is true) and that any sensible government would've added into there some concern for her mental health, even if only because of fear of her turning on them and wanting to minimize risk. Unless you can tell me that at least a -little- concern for a mental health would've increased danger, just don't say anything and save your reputation. Because -that- is the crux argument.

@cor3zone

Third point. You've ceded the point that government is senseless. Why expect them to act sensibly? If they are senseless, it makes sense to expect senseless decisions.

My initial post in this thread was literally saying I -don't- expect them to act sensibly, which is why I wasn't surprised by what happened this chapter, and I was more interested in the horse.

As for your second point I didn't say quarantine wasn't a problem my literal words were "I'm not talking about quarantine" and then the statement that confused you. It was not "it didn't matter cause I said it was no problem" I prefixed my statement by saying I was never talking about the quarantine itself when saying they messed up. Which should make it clear, I'm not criticizing that, why would I in the same sentence then go on to say "In fact, I criticized it before"

 

[CountryMage]

@WillLi no they wouldn't have, as I said, they are treating her as an object to be studied, and ultimately destroyed; as well as a rational person that can be reasoned with, that will obey.

 

[WillLi]

@Countrymage And that is a senseless decision because of the power she holds and also what they were unaware of at the time. Studying her is fine, but increasing the chance that she will turn on you is bad. Becuase despite what you think, the government did not know her personality when she got there. All they had was an oral report by someone who had seen her a little bit. You are thus saying that banking the safety on japan, on the lady's interpretation of her personality, and the assumption that she doesn't have more powerful magic that she didn't show; is a sensible decision. That is what you are saying right now.