PEEP - Ch. 4 - Sin and Trash

[wizard_mouse]

Sin and trash??....more like... SIN AND PEEP.... cuz this manga is TRASH....Bad joke, I know, badly written....... JUST LIKE THIS MANGA

 

[beep_repair]

I think you still don't understand that I don't care if the manga keeps with the tag or not, I just care that this should be done in a public vote, and not behind closed doors in the blink of an eye.
And, that there's no reason to remove my power to change titles, as I didn't change anything to troll. This tag debate is happening only now.

No way in hell. Public vote? Nothing on MangaDex is done by public vote, nor should it be. That would politicize and wreck the warning system, rendering the tags arbitrary and basically useless.

The present system is fine. Uploaders are responsible for tags, but staff will step in to make final decisions when questions, complaints and/or conflicts arise. That's a good solution.

Their site, their rules, and they know best how to apply them.

 

[awkwardusername]

All I wanted was a public vote for these tags...
And now, I lost even my power to edit Hajimete no Gal.
Great.View attachment 4582

wym its still there in featured kekw

 

[beep_repair]

Disagree on a couple points...

...I think sexual violence was ambiguous before this chapter. someone having a depraved fantasy when they are clearly too restrained to ever act on it isn't sexual violence in my eyes. just intrusive thoughts.

The red tags are not meant to describe what "really happens" in a given story. Instead, they exist primarily as warnings about the types of image content readers should expect to encounter. This helps people who are averse to certain types of content make safe, informed decisions. In that context, it doesn't matter that the images in question are fantasies within the narrative. Their visible presence alone justifies the tag.

At the end of the day we're westerners arguing about content policies from Japanese publishers. Those sensibilites should be taken into account instead of going "butt? Erotica" or "forced kiss? Sexual violence"

Some MangaDex tags attempt to replicate the categorizations applied by Japanese publishers. Examples include the Magazine Demographic tags and Filter tags like Doujinshi and 4-Koma. But most MD tags don't work that way. Instead, they try to efficiently inform English-literate readers about art and story content. In that context, the hypothetical habits and sensibilities of Japanese publishers and readers are irrelevant.

 

[beep_repair]

He was removing both tags for the sake of getting the series visibility to go up, causing an edit war to occur. He even acknowledged it was erotica, but was still removing the erotica tag.

If this is true, the uploader 100% deserved to lose editing privileges and should be thankful they're not banned.

 

[kn4ll]

Their site, their rules, and they know best how to apply them.

Sites like this are dependant on the contributers though, and making unfair rules tend to turn people away.
Having said that, their decision on being strict has to do with what you wrote about people avoiding content, but also to avoid getting mangadex banned in countries because of explicit content on the front page.
Even though I don't always agree on their decisions, and I think they're too strict in a lot of cases and it unfairly decreases the visibility of a lot of manga, at least they've given some valid points to why they're strict.

 

[beep_repair]

Sites like this are dependant on the contributers though, and making unfair rules tend to turn people away.
Having said that, their decision on being strict has to do with what you wrote about people avoiding content, but also to avoid getting mangadex banned in countries because of explicit content on the front page.
Even though I don't always agree on their decisions, and I think they're too strict in a lot of cases and it unfairly decreases the visibility of a lot of manga, at least they've given some valid points to why they're strict.

I strongly believe that "visibility" should never be considered when selecting tags. Uploaders must put that thought aside and apply tags objectively based on content. If you really can't tell whether or not a given tag is appropriate, then ask for staff guidance -- and accept the advice you get.

But this isn't even an edge case. Based on the first couple chapters of this series, anyone with half a brain should know that the Erotica and Sexual Violence tags are required here. I mean, there's an obvious rape scene in chapter one, and chapter two is full of lewd sex play with censored genitals.

Deliberately falsifying tags to improve visibility and then whining about being oppressed when the consequences arrive is just sad.

 

[azuremirage]

To the comments I went and they did not disappoint 😭

No cap tho I hope you don't get banned - public discourse is super important to the accessibility of information. If you get banned I'd have to question why I support mangadex with bread to begin with

 

[kn4ll]

To the comments I went and they did not disappoint 😭

No cap tho I hope you don't get banned - public discourse is super important to the accessibility of information. If you get banned I'd have to question why I support mangadex with bread to begin with

He's probably not going to be banned from uploading, but I don't think he's going to get editing rights for title entries back. At least based on what the mods have written.

 

[ysil69]

Yeah this is not the only manga where it got weird tagging, erotica is dubious as it doesn't shows anything despite the story being sexual in nature, but SV?? Where???

Chapter 1?? Chapter 4??

Just because it's imaginary (the entire manga is, its made up) doesn't mean that the drawings on the page don't depict SV.

 

[catsdontsmile]

All I wanted was a public vote for these tags...
And now, I lost even my power to edit Hajimete no Gal.
Great.View attachment 4582

Did they straight up import the mods from Reddit?

 

[raze2012]

they exist primarily as warnings about the types of image content readers should expect to encounter.

So a fantasy in a fantasy that vaguely depicts what can be interpreted as sexual assault out of context.

is "image content"? I disagree in two ways

1. Context matters for sexual assault. A kabedon can be romantic or threatening and without context we shouldn't just refer to it as SA by default.

2. SA can be much more subtle than "image depictions". Someone describing their experience with only abstract depictions (e.g. Beastars) can still be triggering. So the words contained can and should be taken into account

In that context, the hypothetical habits and sensibilities of Japanese publishers and readers are irrelevant.

Idk if it's true, but it's a horrible idea. That's how we get culture classes like an Asian family charged for bathing with their children. Or trying to pretend sushi is a hamburger.

If you're going to read Asian works. You need to be at least vaguely aware of their sensibilities and culture.

Most people who contribute here are "translating" 95+% of the time, not "localizing". Localizing would take the destination culture into mind and change content based on the intended audience. Translation does minimal changes and strives to deliver what the source means and intends.

 

[beep_repair]

A kabedon can be romantic or threatening and without context we shouldn't just refer to it as SA by default.

True. But the romantic/threatening ratio for rape is a bit lopsided.

So the words contained can and should be taken into account

Also true. They're usually pretty small tho.

That's how we get culture classes like an Asian family charged for bathing with their children. Or trying to pretend sushi is a hamburger.

I'm not sure that English fan translation tagging deserves all the blame for bathing and hamburger.

 

[Strela]

Chapter 1?? Chapter 4??

Just because it's imaginary (the entire manga is, its made up) doesn't mean that the drawings on the page don't depict SV.

I don't see it, just like reincarnare. Tagged with erotica and sv for whatever reason. The erotica tag got reverted now but the sv stayed, I don't get the logic behind these taggings.

 

[raze2012]

the romantic/threatening ratio for rape is a bit lopsided.

Sure, I argue that's true even in western media. At this point I think it's just based how many advertising bucks they spend convincing an audience that it's fine. And given that this isn't even available in official English (like most manga), manga doesn't get that BOTD as often.

There's definitely a cultural aspect to all content ratings. If nothing else I think that's why you shouldn't punish over disagreements on such stuff, especially so early in the story.

 

[Akule]

I don't see it, just like reincarnare. Tagged with erotica and sv for whatever reason. The erotica tag got reverted now but the sv stayed, I don't get the logic behind these taggings.

You read chapter 2 and don't understand the erotica tag?

 

[K_Takuya]

is... is this not an erotica with sexual assault done by the female protag?
Like... I'm genuinely asking. So far it seems like a clear-cut case to me

 

[ysil69]

I don't see it, just like reincarnare. Tagged with erotica and sv for whatever reason. The erotica tag got reverted now but the sv stayed, I don't get the logic behind these taggings.

Then you're blind? Erotica is anything with actual sexual content.

Chapter one, he imagines pinning her to the fence and having sex while she says stop, no, and don't. This is sexual violence.

Erotica. Check. Sexual violence. Check.

 

[wallsg]

Oh god, another one of those pathetic masochist MCs... I do not love this.

This guy is going to end up a chastity-caged virgin slave watching his "girlfriend" have sex with other men while serving them refreshments, and this woman is going to be the one to do it to him.

 

[Xel-naga]

Thanks for the chapter!

IMO tags are correct.
Mangadex decide what the ruled for tags is, moderators enforces this decisions when needed.
I a user repeatedly remove the tags set by the moderator, well, that is a big mistake.