Please Add "Villainess" tag to Themes

[Halo]

@Solistia

Also is rape technically already a tag, considering the sensitive content tag?

Some works have very strong presence or revolve around rape, others have only slight elements of rape. Although, you're not wrong. "Villainess" is technically already a tag, considering the shoujo tag.

It doesn't matter if they wrong or false, the fact still stands - you called for people to vote for your cause. You also can't guarantee the authenticity of their votes and opinions. You're a scanlator that provides them with their drug, of course some of them have enough shame to just drop by and give it a "+1". They're not doing it for the tag, but for you who wants this tag.

 

[ABCsOfLife]

You know.. I only took a glimpse at the thread...
Which make me confuse to why there is comments about rape tags and stuff??

 

[bigtiddyoneesan]

@BestBoy

Not sure what you mean by "taking the story in a different direction." Care to expound upon that?

They become sexy vampires and try to rule the world. I've seen it happen a million times. You'd think people would get tired of it, but judging by its popularity, it seems like they all want more of the same.

 

[hazzack]

@ABCsOfLife it's the usual "comparison of an existing tag to a nonexisting tag"

 

[BestBoy]

@bigtiddyoneesan Are you talking about male-oriented villains? Because that's what I was asking about. Just to be clear.

 

[Solistia]

@Halo Ah see, that's the problem, and it was brought up in a previous comment. Villainess is not only Shoujo. it's also Josei and Seinen. It's a trope that belongs to multiple demographics, not just aimed towards young girls. i.e. "The Villainess' Slow Prison Life Began with a Broken Engagement" is very much Seinen and promoted towards a male audience, and there are plenty more than run in seinen magazines.

And like I said in my previous comment, it's less a vote and more a petition. Each vote is like an endorsement signature. Don't people blast petitions they've made wherever they can to gather signatures for their cause? That's not brigading. If you want me to run an online petition instead with virtual signatures, I'll do it 😂 The point is to get the attention of the mods/admins that this is something people actually want. That's what a petition does. This isn't for something already existing and I'm calling in the brigades to take it down cause reasons, it's merely showing a count of how many people want this to happen to give mods/admins a more accurate picture of how wanted this tag is.

@ABCsOfLife Halo is being a contrarian and trying to point out flaws in my argument by changing words :3 You can ignore it if you don't want to participate in his conversation~

 

[Duainfey]

+1 support for villianess tag

 

[bigtiddyoneesan]

@BestBoy
By 'male-oriented', do you mean 'BL' type 'male-oriented' or just in general? Regardless, while I have an idea of what Solistia meant, it's better if he/she explains themselves.

@Solistia
How do male villian types lead stories in different directions than female villians?

 

[BestBoy]

@bigtiddyoneesan Just in general, I think. Basically the same question you asked just now.

 

[CowardlyBanchou]

@Miffness
It's actually just called r/OtomeIsekai
Hope this helps!

 

[Solistia]

@bigtiddyoneesan Let me see if I can put it into words well (I'm sure someone else can do a much better job than me XD). I feel like when we have the male Villain protagonist, they're actually a villain (granted they tend to do good things with their villainy, like picking up lost souls to add to their harem group/party, and improving places that have been left to rot by their main foe). Villainess is almost always (95% of the time), a misunderstood, misinterpreted, or used to be but sudden personality change and now isn't, and isn't actually a villainess, they are just painted as a villainess by the "heroes" for either A) actions taken way out of context, B) outright lies about what the villainess has done, or C)the villainess actually did it, but the original villainess is not in the body anymore and it's a transmigrated person now who is not vilanous.
Some run with it and act villainous. but in most cases it's just amusing for readers because it's not true villainy, just simply bullying that doesn't even actually bully the protagonist (take "The Daughter of the Albert House Wishes for Ruin" for example), while most just try to do good things despite their Villainess label.

I dunno, does that make sense?

 

[Alamut]

@Solistia
Yup, that's exactly what I mean!

Just now, I've stumbled over this series:
https://mangadex.org/title/46679/i-want-to-escape-from-princess-training

It has all the tropes, we usually associate with a "Villainess" story:

- Fiancee of the crown prince
- Girl's unhappy about the arrangement
- Prince "annuls" the engagement

But the girl's not a "Villainess". She's neither arrogant, nor does she get accused of anything. She's just a tomboy who had enough of the etiquette and discipline dictating every aspect of life in the royal palace.
Villainess? Not really.
Reijō / Reijou? Certainly!

To be honest, 1/3 of the heroines of the "Villainess Anthology" you guys are translating also falls more into the "Reijou" category.

 

[bigtiddyoneesan]

@Solistia
Yeah, I see what you mean now. I haven't read manga in the villianess category so I don't really know my stuff lol. Thanks for explaining! As a token of my appreciation, you can have this borgar.

 

[hazzack]

...isn't actually a villainess.

you said it yourself.

you don't put ninja tag when there's a main character claiming to be one while he's not in a manga.
same thing, putting this tag to that kind of manga would be... some kind of lie, i don't know the word for it.

 

[Solistia]

@Alamut While I wouldn't mind a "Reijou" label, because as you said it does encompass more stories that fit the same tropes that people like, Villainess is a well-known and well-lauded term, whereas if you're not weeb enough, you won't understand what "Reijou" means (and "Noble Girl" just falls flat I feel because it feels like the theme would be more about nobility when it's not, and Nobles is already a tag).
As far as the labeling of Villainess in the Anthology, while you're not wrong, the thing about Villainess is, unless they're acting as a character of a Villainess, the term is something others use to describe them because of their actions (or how more nefarious individuals want people to view our poor villainesses as villainesses with their lies). Villainess is not usually a term they use to describe themselves (unless they became the Villainess character of a game, but that only applies to Otome Game Reincarnation-style Villainesses), but one thrust upon them to portray them as the bad guy (when in reality they are usually not).
For one like volume 2 chapter 1, and volume 3 chapter 1, certain actions taken by our female protagonists are seen of as traits of a Villainess. V2c1, she chases off all the girls coming after her man with her superior skills, a trait of a villainess who tries to keep girls away from her man. V3c1 her warning the baron girl friend was starting to be taken as her bullying the girl, a trait of a villainess often employs to keep girls away from her man. So those that aren't suddenly thrust into the role of a Villainess because they took over a Villainess character, can be made to be seen as a Villainess because of actions they've taken (or actions people lie that they've taken), otome game character or not.

 

[Halo]

@Solistia

It's a trope that belongs to multiple demographics,

It's a fair point, but could you please provide more examples to solidify it? To me it looks more like an exception than a rule.

It's brigading. In your credits, you didn't ask for "sign this petition if you support it", but "voice your support" with very clear instructions and the outcome you wanted to achieve. Admins lurk this forum and would have noticed this thread either way. Except now if they adopt your suggestion, this is going to set a precedent where a single person with an audience can push for a change on this site.

 

[NixenSya]

I was just originally going to vote and go (I'm not really an active participant in forums) but there's some seriously weird comments against the tag on here. Like, what sort of logic is that lmao, just say you don't like the trope and go.

@Halo there IS a rape tag, it's the Sexual Violence one, so you can stop going on about it now. Loli is ALSO a tag. I'm all for slavery being one too. When there's such a large amount of works featuring a certain kind of content, it only makes sense to create a tag for it for ease of both finding those works or filtering them out. If MangaDex were the kind of site that didn't allow you to filter very specific themes such as Gyaru or Aliens (as opposed to just the general genre), then I'd say it shouldn't be a tag. However, it is and it does, and given the sheer amount of works for Villainess-type stories and their popularity, it only makes sense to include one, for the sake of both the people who love it and also those who'd rather not see it.

Also, "massively coordinated online voting"? Are you kidding me? The only thing the group did was point towards the forum where the discussion was happening, because a good portion of the users aren't exactly keeping tabs on this section of the site. It wasn't even a link - if you were actually interested on the issue, you had to type it by hand, which only shows the readers' interest. No one forced us to come here and vote, if we were against it we'd have come in and vote against it out of spite anyway, and besides it's not like the absence of the tag would stop translators from doing their thing, especially since as OP said they've tried to bring in this tag before 😅
We're asking for a tag to be added. This is not a ranking system about which tag should be added (in which case the groups interested in the contending tags would likely ALL have posted an advertisement on their translations, let's be real), and so this poll is not in detriment to any other tags or users. Neither is this about reviews or ranking or anything else of the sort. Can't really call it "vote brigading" in such a case.

Also @Solistia, I agree that "Reijou" as a term would lean more towards the trope expectations, however it would very easily also be adopted for every other story with a non-villain female noble protag. "Akuyaku Reijou", maybe? Personally I think "Villainess" is the most self-explanatory one, and also the one most people would be familiar with.

 

[justforthelulz]

@hazzack

putting this tag to that kind of manga would be... some kind of lie, i don't know the word for it.

You're probably looking for 'misleading'. I don't think it quite reaches 'disingenuous/deceptive' levels.

 

[Solistia]

@hazzack but let's assume there were hundreds (and if you include syosetu, thousands) of stories and manga/hwa/hua where the main point of the story was that the ninja wasn't actually a ninja but actually XXX that people referred to as Ninajaess (I'm sorry I'm bad at names). That's Villainess. The trope is so common now, not only does it have its own very recognizable name, and most know what comes with that name, it's big enough to almost be its own category because of the sheer amount of stories that use this now commonplace trope.

 

[Solistia]

@Halo If Villainess was a tag, I could easily filter out the Seinen and Josei ones and show you 🤣