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Oh please do, Villainness tag will be a life saver!
Please Add "Villainess" tag to Themes
- Thread starter Solistia
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@NixenSya In halo's defense, I did actually post a link in our discord server people could easily click and not have to type out 😂But I thank you for your support and having the love of Villainess to have you type out the URL to come here and voice your opinion!
As for the Reijou tag, "Akuyaku Reijou" is Villainess, very specifically: evil-role Noble girl (shortened to Villainess). Reijou allows you to drop the akuyaku (evil-role) part and have not strictly Villainesses in a somewhat Villainess-common setting, despite not being painted as a Villainess (which the specific Villainess tag would require). And again, I do like that, but like I spoke about in an earlier comment, Reijou just doesn't have the trope power that Villainess does (see earlier comment for me going more into detail, I don't want to retype it XD). So while there is merit in the form of a broader category, there's also demerit in that it doesn't have the holding power that the term Villainess does, and Reijou just isn't catching on like Villainess did.
As for the Reijou tag, "Akuyaku Reijou" is Villainess, very specifically: evil-role Noble girl (shortened to Villainess). Reijou allows you to drop the akuyaku (evil-role) part and have not strictly Villainesses in a somewhat Villainess-common setting, despite not being painted as a Villainess (which the specific Villainess tag would require). And again, I do like that, but like I spoke about in an earlier comment, Reijou just doesn't have the trope power that Villainess does (see earlier comment for me going more into detail, I don't want to retype it XD). So while there is merit in the form of a broader category, there's also demerit in that it doesn't have the holding power that the term Villainess does, and Reijou just isn't catching on like Villainess did.
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@Solista, regarding the
because you called for people who are most likely pro new tag (readers of what would be part of it), majority of answers would obviously say yes, and that skews the answers since it increases the amount of people that would agree than if people just naturally find this forum.
Because of the existence of a "rejection" answer, it makes the results of the poll look like more people want the tag than think it's useless, but it was already rigged from the start.
A poll would just have either one option (if that's even possible), or "i just want to see the result" as a second.
As for my opinion, well I don't actively search for it, so I see no use. I would think "female protag" (not a current tag, but what would be added) + fantasy + romance would work, but then again, some villainess stories have no romance, (isekai is also just optional, there are some where it's just people there that treat the world like an otome game).
sure it is becoming a trend, but so is "slow life" or "kicked out of hero ____" or whatever, should we add a tag for all trends?, i think more broad ones that you use in combination with others would work better
TL
R not a poll cause of objection option, leading to skewed results. and i would prefer a female protag tag over villainess, Reijou works better imo too.
If it was, it wouldn't have the opposing option of "I don't think we need one".
because you called for people who are most likely pro new tag (readers of what would be part of it), majority of answers would obviously say yes, and that skews the answers since it increases the amount of people that would agree than if people just naturally find this forum.
Because of the existence of a "rejection" answer, it makes the results of the poll look like more people want the tag than think it's useless, but it was already rigged from the start.
A poll would just have either one option (if that's even possible), or "i just want to see the result" as a second.
As for my opinion, well I don't actively search for it, so I see no use. I would think "female protag" (not a current tag, but what would be added) + fantasy + romance would work, but then again, some villainess stories have no romance, (isekai is also just optional, there are some where it's just people there that treat the world like an otome game).
sure it is becoming a trend, but so is "slow life" or "kicked out of hero ____" or whatever, should we add a tag for all trends?, i think more broad ones that you use in combination with others would work better
TL
R not a poll cause of objection option, leading to skewed results. and i would prefer a female protag tag over villainess, Reijou works better imo too.
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@Solistia I know that Piggy Duke qualifies for the type of storytelling you're specifying for the Villainess/Reijou tag. My point being, making a Villainess/Reijou tag just means staff are going to have to either change this or make a new tag later on when the same style of story with male MCs becomes popular. Make it more generalized the first time and get two bird with one stone.
https://mangadex.org/title/24206/buta-koushaku-ni-tensei-shitakara-kondo-wa-kimi-ni-suki-to-iitai
https://mangadex.org/title/24206/buta-koushaku-ni-tensei-shitakara-kondo-wa-kimi-ni-suki-to-iitai
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@Halo you also have to count the people that mis-demographic titles just because they "seem shoujo", but actually run in Seinen or Josei magazines (I've seen that a lot sadly and correct them when I find them). There's also plenty of new titles of Villainess that haven't gotten into mangaupdates yet that I see in the Seinen magazines I get every month (since they aren't translated, less attention is paid to getting them a MU entry). And actually, I just realized a few are shounen, cause Gfantasy is a shounen magazine 😂(but even it has Villainess). Take https://www.mangaupdates.com/series.html?id=161897, it's labeled shoujo, but it's shounen, because it runs in a shounen magazine (Gfantasy). many are mislabeled just because people use their own judgement "it's girly so it must be for girls" when the demographic is chosen by the magazine.
@JJTheWeeb It forced me to have two options, or I would have only had the one...if I'm able to change it, should I just make it "just clicking to see vote count"?
@JJTheWeeb It forced me to have two options, or I would have only had the one...if I'm able to change it, should I just make it "just clicking to see vote count"?
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@Solista this
It's just a personal distaste for things that can influence someone's opinion subtly/without stating it outright. The reason is as it is, i wanted to see the result but didn't care to vote yes or no, so I just chose what I would've (but in reality, i couldn't really care less what tags are added, since i barely use them).
If this was like Youtube polls where I can add and remove as I please, then I wouldn't have an issue.
EDIT: fixed the formatting, forgot the / before my quote lol
It's just a personal distaste for things that can influence someone's opinion subtly/without stating it outright. The reason is as it is, i wanted to see the result but didn't care to vote yes or no, so I just chose what I would've (but in reality, i couldn't really care less what tags are added, since i barely use them).
If this was like Youtube polls where I can add and remove as I please, then I wouldn't have an issue.
EDIT: fixed the formatting, forgot the / before my quote lol
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@justforthelulz wait, so "misleading" isn't another form of lies?
@Solistia my point is still standing. there are some stories with actual villainess used for plot which might need the tag you propose, as the lady actually doing some evil. while the other just use the pretense of villainess without any evildoing whatsoever, if you want them to use this tag you propose, you should propose another tag of "mislead" for it.
@Solistia my point is still standing. there are some stories with actual villainess used for plot which might need the tag you propose, as the lady actually doing some evil. while the other just use the pretense of villainess without any evildoing whatsoever, if you want them to use this tag you propose, you should propose another tag of "mislead" for it.
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@JJTheWeeb Spoke to mods, the poll can't be changed by them...but if Holo's around he might be able to do it? They pinged him, so time will tell if the second option will be changed (or removed). My brain was on auto pilot when I was making the thread, so when I made the poll option and it said "no you have to have at least two options", my brain went "duuuuuuuur I guess if one is for the other should be against??" Not thinking far enough ahead to be like "oh I can make some bullshit answer to pad the count to two" 😭I'm sorry for my brain
I just want to find my Villainess manga more easily through a tag rather than keeping tabs on all the translation groups that tend to pick them up.
I don’t really use the Shojo/Shonen/.ect tags anymore because recently I’ve found them to be obsolete.
As for this Reijou tag being thrown around, I don’t support it in the slightest. Why? Because I haven’t the slightest clue what it is and if I ever saw it as a tag I would probably just ignore it. It’s not easily identifiable. From a direct translation it seems to do with the rejection part of the villainess trope. However, that also works for all of those “rejected from hero’s party” stories as well and those give a completely different type of story from villainess ones.
As JJ mentioned I think a Female Protagonist tag would be wonderful and very much appreciated. If I can’t have that I would happily take a Villainess tag. Otherwise, in a perfect world I could have both.
TLDR: I would like a Villainess and Female Protagonist tag. Shojo is no longer a helpful tag. I hold no support for a Reijou tag.
Edit: Don’t mind me. Just a random lurker who likes villainess manga with a few random thoughts.
I don’t really use the Shojo/Shonen/.ect tags anymore because recently I’ve found them to be obsolete.
As for this Reijou tag being thrown around, I don’t support it in the slightest. Why? Because I haven’t the slightest clue what it is and if I ever saw it as a tag I would probably just ignore it. It’s not easily identifiable. From a direct translation it seems to do with the rejection part of the villainess trope. However, that also works for all of those “rejected from hero’s party” stories as well and those give a completely different type of story from villainess ones.
As JJ mentioned I think a Female Protagonist tag would be wonderful and very much appreciated. If I can’t have that I would happily take a Villainess tag. Otherwise, in a perfect world I could have both.
TLDR: I would like a Villainess and Female Protagonist tag. Shojo is no longer a helpful tag. I hold no support for a Reijou tag.
Edit: Don’t mind me. Just a random lurker who likes villainess manga with a few random thoughts.
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+1, so I can blacklist it
@Solistia fair enough I guess 😅 Still, it's always a personal choice whether to go and vote or not, regardless of how easily accessible a link might be, and most people usually don't bother. The rest of the points still stand.
No, I'm aware of the translation. What I meant is that in the end "Villainess" is probably the best term for this sort of category, even if the protag might not fit the strict definition of the term, because it's easily understandable and also the one most people are familiar with I even saw some sites with it already in use, when I was looking for manga/hua/hwa of the sort, and so it'd be good to keep in line with what's already out there. "Reijou" would be far too general imo, we'd end up with pretty much anything related with medieval fantasy or royalty stories on the tag.
@Halo, a quick search of "Villainess" on the site and then filtering out by demographic will give you several results for each already, even though works with it on the title are only a small portion of the available ones (so as you can guess, if we had a proper tag for this genre you'd find a lot more). But yes, usually you can tell the difference due to the amount of violence portrayed, how much emphasis is given to the romance portion of the storyline, if there's sexual content (even if it's just alluded to) and how it's dealt with, the way the characters deal with the situations, the level of darkness in general of the work itself, the relationships depicted between characters, the publisher itself, etc. (Edit: just saw your last post and I can think of at least several off the top of my head that are missing in the Seinen/Josei demographics from the MU lists you pointed out.)
@JJTheWeeb I don't think you can put in more than one option on a poll, and adding one to just see the results would not allow people to vote later since (afaik) you cannot change your vote. I do agree that the results will be a bit skewed since the most attention comes from lovers of the genre, but it's not like we can add something on every non-villainess manga to tell people to come and vote. Forum-wise, statistically it's more likely for people who DON'T read the genre to be around and see this thread listed than those that do, anyway.
I definitely would be in for a female protag tag, way too often I need to filter with such a tag on other sites so that I can find the sort of manga that I want instead of filtering by female-oriented demographics (which can be fairly restrictive and remove several of my female-led favourites). And you DO have a point that we can't simply add a tag for every trending genre, but consider that the Villainess trend is (from what I've seen) a lot more common than the other examples you pointed out, and also that other "trends" such as Gyaru and Aliens and so on are tags, and aren't particularly common. As an example, the Gyaru tag has 104 entries, without any other filters. "Villainess" as a title search alone (which, as I've pointed out before, is only a portion of the available works since we have no reliable method to look it up), has 49 by itself. It's not a reach to say that in total it's likely to have at least the same amount of works as that tag, or that it will soon if it doesn't already. Just take a look at any of the main groups translating this sort of works, they have a crazy amount of works of this genre on each of their pages.
No, I'm aware of the translation. What I meant is that in the end "Villainess" is probably the best term for this sort of category, even if the protag might not fit the strict definition of the term, because it's easily understandable and also the one most people are familiar with
I even saw some sites with it already in use, when I was looking for manga/hua/hwa of the sort, and so it'd be good to keep in line with what's already out there. "Reijou" would be far too general imo, we'd end up with pretty much anything related with medieval fantasy or royalty stories on the tag. @Halo, a quick search of "Villainess" on the site and then filtering out by demographic will give you several results for each already, even though works with it on the title are only a small portion of the available ones (so as you can guess, if we had a proper tag for this genre you'd find a lot more). But yes, usually you can tell the difference due to the amount of violence portrayed, how much emphasis is given to the romance portion of the storyline, if there's sexual content (even if it's just alluded to) and how it's dealt with, the way the characters deal with the situations, the level of darkness in general of the work itself, the relationships depicted between characters, the publisher itself, etc. (Edit: just saw your last post and I can think of at least several off the top of my head that are missing in the Seinen/Josei demographics from the MU lists you pointed out.)
@JJTheWeeb I don't think you can put in more than one option on a poll, and adding one to just see the results would not allow people to vote later since (afaik) you cannot change your vote. I do agree that the results will be a bit skewed since the most attention comes from lovers of the genre, but it's not like we can add something on every non-villainess manga to tell people to come and vote. Forum-wise, statistically it's more likely for people who DON'T read the genre to be around and see this thread listed than those that do, anyway.
I definitely would be in for a female protag tag, way too often I need to filter with such a tag on other sites so that I can find the sort of manga that I want instead of filtering by female-oriented demographics (which can be fairly restrictive and remove several of my female-led favourites). And you DO have a point that we can't simply add a tag for every trending genre, but consider that the Villainess trend is (from what I've seen) a lot more common than the other examples you pointed out, and also that other "trends" such as Gyaru and Aliens and so on are tags, and aren't particularly common. As an example, the Gyaru tag has 104 entries, without any other filters. "Villainess" as a title search alone (which, as I've pointed out before, is only a portion of the available works since we have no reliable method to look it up), has 49 by itself. It's not a reach to say that in total it's likely to have at least the same amount of works as that tag, or that it will soon if it doesn't already. Just take a look at any of the main groups translating this sort of works, they have a crazy amount of works of this genre on each of their pages.
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I've been campaigning for this tag to be added since MD started (well, Otome Isekai, but Villainess just as well). For those concerned with Reijou not necessarily including villainesses, a "Nobles" theme tag would suffice (and be inclusive of other fantasy works outside of mainly shoujo/josei; or, include works like Cold Game which is villainess-adjacent but not necessarily so). And to show just how many damned Villainess-themed works there are, here's a list with almost 600 works (manga, manhua, manwha) that contain the theme.
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@Solistia
I also meant it, that not every heroine is seen as the antagonist by her peers / surroundings, nor was she reincarnated into the role inside the world of a game/book/manga/ero-doujin/whatever. That's my main way to distinguish such stories, as most "Villainesses" can only be called that in name, not in actual actions anyway. A true "Villainess", that TRULY embraces the role is a rare sight.
So at least for me:
Villainess - is either seen as one due to misunderstandings, or was reincarnated into the role (and almost never acts according to it).
Reijou - some noble lady in a historical / fantasy setting. Might or might not be a reincarnator.
Basically all villainesses are reijous, but not all reijous are villainesses.
Anyhow.
You're probably right in the end. "Villainess" is the more recognizable term, especially, that most translated titles use it.
I also sometimes forget, that not all manga readers have been thoroughly corrupted, and that there is still hope for them xD
I also meant it, that not every heroine is seen as the antagonist by her peers / surroundings, nor was she reincarnated into the role inside the world of a game/book/manga/ero-doujin/whatever. That's my main way to distinguish such stories, as most "Villainesses" can only be called that in name, not in actual actions anyway. A true "Villainess", that TRULY embraces the role is a rare sight.
So at least for me:
Villainess - is either seen as one due to misunderstandings, or was reincarnated into the role (and almost never acts according to it).
Reijou - some noble lady in a historical / fantasy setting. Might or might not be a reincarnator.
Basically all villainesses are reijous, but not all reijous are villainesses.
Anyhow.
You're probably right in the end. "Villainess" is the more recognizable term, especially, that most translated titles use it.
I also sometimes forget, that not all manga readers have been thoroughly corrupted, and that there is still hope for them xD
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@NixenSya - Haha, glad you can use it! I've been steadily compiling it over the last year or so both help other and prove just how much this genre has grown. We're not even counting works that haven't been scanlated yet to English in that list, or future works that are yet to be adapted (as web/light novels are far more numerous than drawn works, as the progenitor of the genre)!
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