Ryuu to Ayumu Nariagari Boukensha-dou ~Youzumi toshite S-Rank Party kara Tsuihou Sareta Kaifuku Majutsushi, Suterareta Saki de Saikyou no Shinryuu o …

[Eighty-six]

Why do you guys like slavery so much?

You quoted me making reference to the cruelties of slavery, and you think it's appropriate to ask me why I like slavery?

This is the exact thing I meant in my comment. You made that logic jump because you're peacocking. You're doing so very inefficiently, but you're doing it all the same.

Because you view yourself as "against slavery", and you see me criticizing you at all, you take my opposition to you to mean that I'm "for slavery"-- and not, as my words convey, frustrated with the lack of dimensionality in this discussion on the topic despite people discussing the topic and what could have been done instead while retaining this aspect of the setting. Also, I was slightly amused by your perceived peacocking in response to the narrative making Dion peacock (which I don't deny is happening).

"I'm out to buy a slave but I need to make sure I get a GOOD one and not a CRIMINAL" Now watch as super benevolent Dion saves this slave's life while ALSO getting a good DEAL.

But as far as they're aware at the time, it wasn't a good deal for them. Dion was sure that he set out to heal an emaciated child (who couldn't be expected to do much even if she were well), without even knowing if he could do so, and before said emaciated child was his responsibility. And even after healing said child, he still didn't buy her and yet A) chose to do so, and B) elected to pledge to achieve the means to manumit her (i.e. there is a process of manumission that costs money, and he presumably can't just set her free without her just being captured and either returned or put up for sale again).

"But this is just the world he lives in." Every body of power knows the wrong they are committing for the sake of their own betterment. Slavery isn't bad now just because its the current year.

Nor did I claim that slavery is only wrong because it's the current year. But you're not taking into account the complexities and potential for contradictions in moral codes in general, and you might take certain topics as necessarily more related than they are.

At any rate, in a premodern society where chattel slavery is fundamentally allowed with state sanction, to persist as an institution, and without any broadly accepted religion or culture that prompts cognitive dissonance, even the "bad" that they may view it as is bound to be different, and what they consider to be "good" in proximity to the institution is also going to be different. The ancients had the empathy to know that slaves often suffered, and had the basic knowledge to know that slaves had diminished rights compared to the free man. Everyone that had a voice in their society decided to perpetuate this system for numerous generations, nonetheless. They understood slavery to be "not good" but also "part of the way the world works", and they had all sorts of entrenched rationalizations for it. In some societies, they reasoned that the slaves were a cosmic underclass. Slaves presumably frequently believed the same, while still believing that they were suffering. Despite this, they still readily had concepts such as love, virtue, mercy (acceptable and otherwise), et cetera.

We don't have such "divine order" ideas, not least of all because we live in a society where social mobility is far more possible than it was for those ancients. We largely understand slavery to be "very not good" partly because A) we have religions whose ethical codes created cognitive dissonance about the institutions for centuries, and B) we've had generations of people born into a world where there are more efficient means of production than raw manpower, which positions slavery as a thing that the average person (keeping in mind A)) can only really view as "unnecessary sadism".

This isn't about "slavery is good" and it isn't about "I like slavery". It's about "assess the morality of these characters, in the world that they live in, where slavery is an entrenched institution, because the premodern societies the author patterns this world after often featured an entrenched institution of slavery (beyond the prison system)". It's about "assess what slavery is"-- premodern societies experienced it as an actual part of their societies, and you often couldn't just manumit a slave by your own will. It's about "relevance"-- as in, I relate with the consternation better when it's just an isekai'd modern Japanese schoolboy that shouldn't be able to get behind something like slavery with how they've been raised, but participates in it without hesitation or circumstantial coercion.

Dion not slaying the people that attempted to murder him doesn't have to have much to do with how he views the institution of slavery. Those are two different concepts that implicate his apparent mercy and forbearance in different ways, by nature of what they are-- and those virtues are intelligible within the context of slavery, however diminished or twisted they are according to either of our moral frameworks (my moral framework, at least on this topic, reflecting an ethical code that I hold to be objectively true and all-valuable).

Think about it this way: in their context, can it not be construed as "mercy" that Dion, with his moderately meager means, takes this child out of this dank, dim, underground dungeon, places her in their new house, assures her care (let's be for real, she could be a complete loafer and he'll still take care of her) and promises to raise money for her manumission? Given Dion, would he not do the same for whichever person he bought? He can't buy every slave there. He doesn't want to buy or manumit criminals. He can't free the slaves by force in a society where slavery is sanctioned (talk less of doing so while discriminating for non-criminals). He can not participate in the institution, but then that child (or whoever else he could have bought) will continue to be in that dank, dim, underground dungeon and probably nobody else would care to buy her or even hypothetically have the means to dispel her curse (this is part of the point of the chapter's title and last page, interestingly).

Because it should be used as a cheap way to show us how good our protagonist is but its used to get people (mostly woman) to trust (mostly fall in love) with our protag by doing the bare minimum.

Yeah. I don't disagree with that. Same as it ever was, seeing that harem manga and anime in the aughts was all about this. At least three women trying to jump one Japanese highschooler's bones by any means necessary just because he handed her a test sheet with a smile and didn't Batista Bomb her off the school rooftop when she was being bullied. Or said that her feet didn't stink when everyone else was telling her that her feet stank (because they did). Or because they're childhood friends that made an errant promise to marry each other before they knew what "marriage" was. Or because they're cousins, and the three year old him said he wanted to marry her.

 

[_hng_]

Its so dumb. Its not the fact that slavery exists it the participation of it all. I really needed this slave chapter to tell me that Dion isn't like those other slave owners and he's super good. trash.

Tbf this is not Isekai, Dion is just a habitant of this world thus his mindset and values are heavily influenced by this world's culture.

I have more issue with how "buying slave" is the default option instead of hiring people for services. I posted something similar in another Isekai manga, that such economy is heavily skewed, with slaves outcompete normal service providers, thus forcing people into slavery, creating a loop that put most of a population in low-skill indentured labour. Such a society would be heavily unsustainable.

 

[aveney41]

Slavery. Why is it always slavery

 

[Scipo0419]

Technically being 26 years old while having the body of a child is a bit concerning

She explained, she's still a child by Elven standards. She hasn't hit "elven puberty" yet.

 

[Scipo0419]

Though if you want to get really into it, even if she physically changes to an adult at 30, to elves she's still a child, but humans see her as an adult, and consider her as an adult since she would be 30 years old.

Technically, she said their bodies rapidly mature around 30 (puberty equivalent) and they're considered full fledged adults at 50 (varies by country/culture, but 18-21 are pretty standard, rarely it's 16) If we use the average age for puberty of 11 (it's 8-13) and Japan's standard of 18 for legally an adult, then the ratio is 0.36 for the human:elf age where 1 human year = 0.36 elf years (11/30 and 18/50 both = ~0.36) then she's effectively 9.62 elf years old at 26 human years old.


She's literally a child

 

[AMicrowave]

Could be a sign of malnourishment. But yeah and i am not a fan of a slave market all of a sudden

she stated that elves have the body of a child till 30

 

[Moody0_0]

And they went there........ fuckin great

 

[Selfisch]

Slavery existing almost always existing in these fantasy manga is one thing, but why does it lead to the MC buying a slave so often 😭 😭

 

[Tomzai]

Its so dumb. Its not the fact that slavery exists it the participation of it all. I really needed this slave chapter to tell me that Dion isn't like those other slave owners and he's super good. trash.

You just dont get it, there NEEDS to be a slave buying arc to show how GOOD guy our john mc is. Also please ignore the fact that slave is always female and some rare race or has special mcguffin powers because that is so never ever ever done before!
Did I mention how GOOD GUY the mc is yet?

 

[Iskarioth]

I find it hilarious how certain people with an agenda a shifting the defintion of adult and child back and forth, as if Dions preparing to bend her over the table any minute now. You a suggesting an outcome that's not even on the table. He just wants a housekeeper, not a sex slave, you freaks!
All of you seem to be forgetting that an adult is largly a social construct ( yeah yeah I already know you gonna get out the pitchforks and you can shove em right up your rear ends because I am not making a morality statement). Mature or adult is just what society or at least the majority of said people agrees on at the time.

PS: there are tiny flat chested women of legal age in real life, I met them. And for some reason you realllllly want them to be children to some how own other people for the sole reason of wanting to feel morally superior, once again. Go after real pedos with my blessing but this is just pathetic.

 

[RobDog]

So basically 4 years then she gonna be badonka donk or smth...

 

[DexDK]

The reason MC's heal worked on her is called "Plot Armor".
Also, LMAO for people in the comment section trying to use modern day logic and values to judge the behaviour of people from a medieval fantasy-like fictional world with different story, races, technology and magic... Heck, even in our own world, if our past was different, we too would probably have completely different worldviews than we do right now...

 

[Apep23]

4 years to go lads, lets wait

 

[HawkGoggles]

You quoted me making reference to the cruelties of slavery, and you think it's appropriate to ask me why I like slavery?

I quoted you because you quoted me. This isn't about me, I made my comment about the story and nothing but the story. If you think me saying, I think the way this story shoved in slavery as a way to introduce a character and show how benevolent Dion is, is weird; I think that says something about you. I don't need a lesson on slavery because I know this text isn't going to be that deep. Because if you were really thinking about the text you'd know that this story isn't going to be deeply concerned about the social and monetary economics of slavery. Dion gave the most basic "nice guy who still buys a slave" lines and that's probably where this is all going to end.

You talk about the hypocrisy and complexity of a slavery but if our characters don't make notice of it, that lies on use the reader to and the only person to place that hypocrisy on is the over all text and author. This is still a story written for people of today and our Hero is supposed to be likable. So yes I'm going to judge Dion by my "modern sensibilities", because how does, Dion buying a slave make me think better of him?

There's a complete lack of self awareness here, like most modern stories that feature slaves have. I'm not going to give this one the benefit of the doubt to dig deeper into that subject because if it wanted to we wouldn't be here buying a slave in the first place. As you omitted form your string of replies "MY bare minimum isn't to not have slavery in my works, its for my characters to not participate in it." To not have my stories bend themselves backwards to prop it up. Because 90% of them have nothing to say about say about and lack the self awareness to handle it with care.

 

[lesseffective]

If shes a slave he doesnt have to pay her and can instead take care of her needs. Also Im assuming the collar is a magical form of ID which might deter ppl from messing with her

 

[Fuzaki]

I'm never a fan of these "slave" plots. Also for all intents and purposes she's still a child. People need to understand that maturity among other creatures need to be translated into "human years".

 

[Eighty-six]

I quoted you because you quoted me.

It's like you can't read sufficiently. Did I criticize you for quoting me? No, I criticized you for quoting what I said and then making a response that ignores what you quoted me saying.

You talk about the hypocrisy and complexity of a slavery

...no, I talked about the reality of hypocrisies and complexities inherent to the moral code of any individual, and then I generally explained how this highlight was relevant to how the ancients perceived the institution of slavery across cultures in history. My exact point is that there's nothing that's been established in this setting-- like a dominant religion that insists on the ontological equality of all human beings-- to prompt the cognitive dissonance that serves as the premise of any moral noticing that we're familiar with. Again: the non-slave ancients obviously knew slavery was something they personally wouldn't enjoy, and that by itself didn't stop the institution because their cultures accommodated the institution by whatever philosophical means (such as, an idea of a divine order that classifies slaves as a cosmic class). They also could still conceive of a concept of "righteous living", "virtue", "love", and whatever else.

This is still a story written for people of today and our Hero is supposed to be likable. So yes I'm going to judge Dion by my "modern sensibilities", because how does, Dion buying a slave make me think better of him?

But you're not the only person reading this. You're not even part of the primary audience-- and I don't mean "the primary audience is Japanese otaku", but specifically "Japanese otaku that are into fantasy stories with the kind of setup this one has". The one that at least takes it as a given that a scenario like this is bound to occur, as some twist on the "save the cat(girl)" event. The one that probably does take this as "the usual for the setting", and takes note of the fact that the slaver is presented and treated by other characters in a derisive manner.

Again, your argument-- and your insistence on applying foreign standards-- would be more apropos if we were talking about an isekai protagonist.

As you omitted form your string of replies "MY bare minimum isn't to not have slavery in my works, its for my characters to not participate in it." To not have my stories bend themselves backwards to prop it up.

I didn't omit it for any surreptitious reason. I didn't bother to respond to it because I didn't especially care and there's nothing there that prompts an on-topic response.

---

Also for all intents and purposes she's still a child. People need to understand that maturity among other creatures need to be translated into "human years".

If we have to run that conversion for people that have lived for 26 years, despite them having 26 years of life experience, then they're not merely children-- they're mentally disabled children and we shouldn't pretend that this conversation matters.

I don't know why that other guy even attempted to do the math on this one, as if somehow "maturity" is a process that can be comparatively established by direct relations.

 

[GetRekdm8]

The reason MC's heal worked on her is called "Plot Armor".
Also, LMAO for people in the comment section trying to use modern day logic and values to judge the behaviour of people from a medieval fantasy-like fictional world with different story, races, technology and magic... Heck, even in our own world, if our past was different, we too would probably have completely different worldviews than we do right now...

Because tourists are idiots. We JUST got introduced to this character and they already assume everything that will ever happen ever based off preconceived notions.

Is there a reason why the slave contract can't be voided right now? (Often is the case in these fantasy isekai stories)

Does she even have somewhere to return to if he does release her right now?

"She's a kid", so releasing her in a medieval setting, effectively abandoning her, isn't good either.

Nah F that, DOOM GLOOM I'M LEAVING! DID I SAY I'M LEAVING?!?!?! UMMMMMMM I'M LEAVING?!?!?!?! TAKE ME SERIOUSLY TAKE ME SERIOUSLY. TAKE. ME. SERIOUSLYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR



Clown shit, man. The west should not have had access to anime & manga, I regret ever wanting these mediums to become popular in the west. Too much brainrot and performative morality to ever discuss anything in English communities, disregarding how many dumbasses in English communities openly cheer for censorship and whatnot, too.

 

[KuroeNekumi]

"i have purchased you" "i will set you free one day".

Have we seen anyone deal with slaves before at any point in the series, to have some basis for how they're seen? It feels weird that Dion, out of all people, is this ok with playing ball with the concept of owning someone else.

Maybe it could just be something about the TL coming with wording that's stronger than the intended meaning, but still - i would bet she would have helped with the chores if she was being taken care of ON TOP OF being healed of her curse that was eating away at her senses, slave contract or not.

And no, the rationale that "a slave would work better at keeping our things safe, and be cheaper than a high-class caretaker" doesn't work when Dion is such a softie, and we have no reason to believe that getting someone who could be a live-in worker that took care of the house (maybe a struggling single mother or widow or something) wouldn't be something he'd do before thinking of getting a slave for it.

And that really is the crux of the issue: we've had it insisted upon that he's kind-hearted to a fault, if less trusting now. But not to the point he'd go full-on Naofumi for crying-out loud (as in, take in a slave because he's become too untrusting in the world)! I can't believe there's either an in-world or in-character explanation for why he would get a slave before trying some other cheaper labour alternative - or even if he got one, that he wouldn't free them from being a slave immediately and instead told them they'd pay a wage and let them stay in their house as long as they worked as the caretaker for it (besides some magical or legal bullshit that would have been explained upon her purchase, like stories attempting to justify the purchase/ownership of slaves do).

 

[Tsumi]

If we have to run that conversion for people that have lived for 26 years, despite them having 26 years of life experience, then they're not merely children-- they're mentally disabled children and we shouldn't pretend that this conversation matters.

I don't know why that other guy even attempted to do the math on this one, as if somehow "maturity" is a process that can be comparatively established by direct relations.

Mental maturity is a process that involves both life experiences and biological processes controlled by hormones. There are various brain development phases that occur during puberty and don't complete until young adult. A species that matures slower is not inherently disabled and is wrong to think of it as such. If she has the body and brain development of a child, she's a child and should be treated as such regardless of physical age. That is the proper way of treating species with vastly different lifespans, and the author absolutely deserves to be called out for implementing something they haven't thought through fully.

I think it's also fair to say that the author burned through much of the readers' goodwill with that dungeon boss fight that went on and on forever. Dion was a dumb meathead for most of that arc as well, which didn't help anything. The story moving forward will be looked at with a much more critical eye, and all the plot holes will be scrutinized harshly. It's honestly surprising that this manga is maintaining as high of a rating as it is.