Sayonara Mangadex, putting down our rose colored glasses.

[Vengeance22]

Well I guess I will have to readd my old aggregator besides MD now, no biggie.

 

[Echo13243]

@ZenithStar Correct me if I'm wrong but things like booru hosts raws which people can put text over already (though not implemented as fully)

The thing is that MD already has a feature to direct traffic to websites; delayed releases. If groups want traffic for a page, then they can set a delay on the release for MD. Readers can wait a while for the MD release, or they can go straight to the site. Hell, I don't know if there's a delay limit but if they really wanted site traffic they could just max it out so people never end up reading on MD and have to go to their site.

Edit: Max is 2 weeks

Hosting raws is basically just piracy at that point (it's not super legal at the moment, but it's miles more justifiable than straight raws)

That said, these changes won't do anything for these groups because even now they're being given a lot more power over their releases on MD compared to other sites, and yet they're still not happy.

 

[ZeroMomo]

correct me if i am wrong please
to make a quick summary of what i understood here:
>groups got hate for having a delay for releases on MD
>groups got mad that MD staff didn't do anything about those haters
>some retards harassed groups that didn't upload on MD or left MD while deleting all their work
>holo said that JBs decision of not uploading to MD is irrational and that people should contact him for comments and or criticism (which makes sense cause they can't change anything about JBs decision)
>someone feels like they were forced to use MD instead of their own sites (even tho some of them already had 2 week delays which is pretty much ''forcing'' people go to their site already)
>in their rage they confuse themselves and get emotionally hurt that MD will go legal if the possibility is there
>they get mad that if MD would really go legal they would hire the good groups for translation (why do they get mad about that)
>some rant about how they want to stay at the situation of having all of the stories for free (some comparison to fakku, a hentai site that went from fan translations to a legal pay to view system)
>some long ass text about them deleting all their work from MD (which they were always able to do btw so nothing special tbh)
>a list with all the people quitting MD too

and now (if this lemming train gets bigger) the pleb reader needs to either have 50 sites bookmarked again or use some cancer aggregator with ads pushed into your face
so the only one profiting from this are aggregator sites that no one likes
btw i support what holo said there, it's irrational to not upload to MD when the only other big library sites you have are cancer and if you don't wanna upload to anywhere aside from your own site no one stops you from doing that?
MD staff didn't force them do remove their 2 week delay on MD afaik, the people just got mad that they had to wait for so long on MD (which i don't understand but hey that's how they are)
so i don't really get what problem they have with MD now tbh
i guess they want 0 criticsm, or something idk

 

[Gambino]

people will go follow your scanalated series on another site which doesn't even credit you, great job :^)

 

[ScanBack]

When the DDOS doesn't work I guess you've got to try another tactic to get your ad revenue back...

 

[Greg_no_Gregory]

 

[Vengeance22]

@Azebu Can you even load their site? I had to aquire the exact link to their latest releases page to actually be able to read something over there as their bloody site takes about an hour to load up it's so full of crypto-coinminers. But I guess now that Firefox implemented the cryptominer ban function it should load faster, but they will prolly just implement some other trick to get your processing time.

 

[Zinstrel]

lol bye. Meraki scans and Retard_ are shitheads anyways.

 

[Serenata]

Aahhh I think all this hate started with the manhua series and the death treats from some users who are too retarded, but is that MD fault? no, you got more attention now and that calls for a bunch of shitty ungrateful readers, and I bet you were like "enougha this horseshit" and I don't blame you, some readers here are really ungrateful...But all of this *gasp* m-mangadex is going to betray us!" I don't buy it... If they're using you for their benefit to eventually leave then you guys used them to get more popular and now you're leaving, taking a big portion of readers with you, including the shitty ones.

Well anyway, this is sad... Is sad that the ultimate winner is the copy/paste websites like rock

Edit: Also, I think they got mad that even if they could put delays on their work and ignore the haters or block them, because they don't have the right to "own" series, other group could take their place here.

 

[Holo]

Let me tell you an actual secret, guys. We added the 2 week delay specifically for JB. The max delay is usually one week.

We have bent backwards so much to accommodate groups that you can practically hear our spines breaking.

 

[YoroShie]

Nice~

It's okay if the team uses Patreon. Team buy raws and it wasn't cheap. It also helps to pay for site cost and sometimes other staffs. Also it's the readers way to help the team and saying their appreciation for the team. Nothing's questionable and mocking on that if the team has Patreon, if you call it profit I guess they deserve it coz they put effort and time on it for the sake of their readers. Also haven't MD has Patreon too? 🤷

 

[_StackTracer]

The scanlators side:
- Afraid that Mangadex goes legit and tosses everyone to the trash bin
(That could be the case if Mangadex really goes legit as Mangadex will claim all of the popularity from the scanlators work, but Holo did say their end goal is to be legit from the beginning.)
- But makes profit from commissions
(Really? seriously guys?)

Mangadex side:
- Going legit would mean having majority of the existing library available with licenses, which is likely not going to happen
(Hearing that make me feel relieved. Otherwise a legit Mangadex is no different than Crunchyroll.)
- Holo going passive aggressive on the reply
(Understandable when being caught on fire like this. But yeah, it's not good for your image)

 

[Echo13243]

@YoroShie

If Mangadex has a patreon why don't you link it..........

 

[ZenithStar]

@Echo13243 idk haven't used those sites in ages. Just briefly took a look but couldn't find an image with translations attached.

The directory option is currently only for those sites that promise to host here eventually.

AFAIK, hosting any scanlation, regardless if it's raw or translated, is already legal-grey-area. Laws are basically: "if it's not prohibited, it's allowed" and there's currently not enough enforcement power to prohibit the international community from running a site like this.

 

[Holo]

@YoroShie

Yeah I admit I probably went over the top when I posted that image, but I was pretty angry considering how much we have gone out of our way to help some of these groups.

I personally have no problems with groups getting money to pay for their servers and raws, as I have said elsewhere before.

The tipping point is when the need to profit leads to drama like this.

 

[BestBoy]

I feel like this is blowback from the credit pages and banners drama dressed up as something else.

 

[ThiccEarth]

Thank you for the wonderful comedy. Now I will kindly sit here with my quality mangas, and wait for the ignorant groups to crumble under this

 

[gormadoc]

It has to be pointed out that there's no way Mangadex is trying the not-at-all real Microsoft strategy of the 90s. That would require them to expand into every corner of the weebsphere and then dominate it all. It was never a thing before and even if it were tried now it could never be sustainable. During the big lawsuits between the USFG and MS, MS the groups accusing MS of predatory practice were their competitors, in the common vein of calling for regulation against your competitors. NetScape, which was far bigger (16x) than MS in their market, was a central figure here. It's all about the money. NetScape played on fears in the Justice Department over MS becoming bigger than Standard Oil ever was, just like JB (I presume it's JB leading this chicanery) is now claiming MD is going to dominate all of scanlation. They don't believe it; all they need is for us to believe it. Admit that you want money and pull your chapters off if you like, but pretending to have the moral high-ground here is sophistry.

EDIT: Like it or not, the only long-term solution to the scanlation community's myriad problems is some eventual legitimization. Everything that gets fucked up is classic "tragedy of the commons". Sniping wouldn't be possible with some from of licensing. Worrying about lost or unsteady income would be better as well. Obviously there'll be some growing pains and problems (like in countries with bad free speech/expression laws or very small countries) but there'll still be scanlation for the rest of our lives. Locking down the US/EU market would be a good first step.

 

[TheGTF]

The going legit issue is a long ways off and still merely a pipe dream based on what has been publicly said regarding it- I feel like it's absurd to even act like that is a present day thing to pitchfork about. Licensing is not a small issue considering it's long and short a country by country problem- and of course all the illegal scanslations would have to leave as no sane JP publisher would extend licensing rights to a venue that is also hosting pirated reproductions of other parts of their catalog. And that's not even accounting for how married the largest publishers are to the likes of Viz and Yen Press- Dex is not poaching any of Shueisa's cash cows out from under Viz for example. Thus I find it incredibly hypocritical for some of these groups to act like they have some moral high ground when their 'business model' is to steal from Weekly Shounen Jump, a legally English licensed publication by Viz that has a cheap subscription and offers a large back catalog. Dex becoming a legitimate publisher has a million other issues, like quality control, that are not so easily addressed too- groups that publish through them would in theory become paid contractors to Dex, whose reputation takes all the hits for product failure. I don't mean to be throwing shade and singling groups out but it's the most immediate example that comes to my mind: "Mairimashita! Iruma-kun", what Wicked House releases for that would be laughed out of a professional industry were that to be published as an official release as is. As much shit as I give Yen Press for their goofs, they're not as bad as the pile of releases on Dex (in a general sense, no longer specifically picking on Wicked House, thank you for being my punching bag for a moment) that read like they were run through Babelfish and proofreaders and typsetters said "good enough"- even NISA's Ys 8 launch script reads better.

What I am seeing thus far is a few groups with giant egos but incredibly thin skin. Based on what I read here and recent events, this appears to be largely stemming from the Dex staff refusing to be a nanny for these groups when they're getting criticized by the users or by other groups, especially considering how much OP harps on that and thanks the haters for 'opening their eyes'. And the most recent brouhaha appeared to heavily involve a side that openly disclosed they were doing it for the salt, so way to let the terrorists win guys. I get it, this is a hobby people do for free for the benefit of others; real life comes first and releases get delayed and ungrateful leechers will get pissy...but that's all they are, ungrateful leechers. Same goes for asshats who want to give others shit for asking for donations, fuck em, why does what they think matter so much to you? It's the fucking internet, it's a cesspool of entitled, toxic assholes, grow the fuck up and act like a god damn adult, don't unironically become part of that and insist you're better somehow. Dex's stance is they are merely a platform and do not want to get involved in bickering between groups or between groups and their readers- I don't see a problem with this line in the sand as I do not believe a manga aggregator should be an administratively enforced hugbox, they can have that on their own sites and Discord channels. I'm not saying I think it should be a lawless wasteland, but I expect groups run by grown ass adults to act like them and not cry about haters while insisting dealing with them is everyone else's responsibility. Should Dex be a more clear on the "be civil rules" and more consistent with enforcement of it? Yeah, I think that would be good, as would a way for a group to report the more belligerent assholes for more flagrant behavior (of course that requires a more decisive definition on what that exactly is). But I just don't think even that should be some sort of bubble to insulate everyone from mean things being said at them.

Regarding the donation thing, I understand wanting those to offset hosting costs, and material costs for raws. Sure, I really do get that and don't have a problem with it in of itself, I'm not morally opposed to groups politely asking their fans to chip in and help subsidize the cost of a product they are enjoying. But there comes a point where if you won't and/or can't do your hobby unless others pays for it, it stopped being a hobby and is now a job. And if that's the case, then such groups should put their big boy pants on and treat it like one- which would include legally acquiring licenses to produce and digitally distribute the work (and I say that knowing we all get that's not a thing you can just casually do). It would be like somebody need Patreon support in order to keep building 4K miniatures, or better example: full time live streamers, that's now their job and donations are no longer generous gratuities, it's just their ordinary gross income- the internet era street performer.

But what do I know? I'm just a reader- why care what any of us have to say since apparently our two cents are invalid and we're just dick sucking sheeple if we don't side with the signatories...or we're giant babies and greedy shills if we side with some point they make on some principle...I feel like it's lose-lose chiming in at all right now.

 

[Inverness]

From reading the thread it seems to me that the MangaDex staff have done nothing wrong. In fact they have done a lot of good by crediting scanlators where other sites don't. They also let those scanlators have control of their work where other familiar sites just steal it.

At the end of the day I have little time to read manga and no interest in managing bookmarks to tens of manga sites. MangaDex is where I'm going to read manga and if some groups decide to pull out that will just mean I can tackle more of my backlog.