Shinju no Nectar - Vol. 6 Ch. 22 - Yashimano
- Thread starter MangaDex
- Start date
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2018
- Messages
- 3,134
@Exile I'm not a fan of families and bloodlines, magic becomes too much like the power-set of a superhero at that point, it's so...rigid, I much prefer flexible magic systems that reward skill and creativity, and expand for a character the more they learn and grow(D&D).
@Vasqueztion
I consider myself agnostic, so definitely not an atheist, but that guy seems to be an anti-theist(someone who opposes the belief in any deity and religion and believes they're harmful to the individual, society, and scientific progress).
Atheism is the lack of belief and faith in God, gods, a committed Atheist would scoff at the concept of a soul, and therefore afterlife, for them if there's hard evidence, it exists, if not it doesn't.
I know it's a minor, borderline irrelevant nitpick, but the distinction mattered enough to me to type this down lol
@Vasqueztion
I consider myself agnostic, so definitely not an atheist, but that guy seems to be an anti-theist(someone who opposes the belief in any deity and religion and believes they're harmful to the individual, society, and scientific progress).
Atheism is the lack of belief and faith in God, gods, a committed Atheist would scoff at the concept of a soul, and therefore afterlife, for them if there's hard evidence, it exists, if not it doesn't.
I know it's a minor, borderline irrelevant nitpick, but the distinction mattered enough to me to type this down lol
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2018
- Messages
- 2,982
On the one hand, I fucking hate this designated asshole countries who are overtly racist and mysoginistic and I thought the dark elves already filled the edgy nation quota.
On the other hand, I'm surprised the author gave that role to the not!Japan country, considering they tend to be depicted in a postive and almost idealized manner. I'm also surprised he apparently based it not on feudal Japan but rather what seems like WW2 Japan, considering how the japanese tend to avoid even mentioning that period other than bringing up weapons, gunships, etc and the nukings.
On the other hand, I'm surprised the author gave that role to the not!Japan country, considering they tend to be depicted in a postive and almost idealized manner. I'm also surprised he apparently based it not on feudal Japan but rather what seems like WW2 Japan, considering how the japanese tend to avoid even mentioning that period other than bringing up weapons, gunships, etc and the nukings.
@gaigous, I just pointed one example were there is no set rules for casting, some settings are very restricted and others are very open.
But in the end, its about costs ... I havent played D&D in decades now but looking at the d20SRD page I am seeing costs in the thousands, a wand of fireball is Spell level × caster level × 750 gp, 11,250gp for the basic wand with 50 charges, this is not insignificant costs.
The reason why technology is better is because unlike magic everyone can use it (even were magic is common, its still requires a degree of training) and its not reliant on mages to persists, permanent effects are not something that can just happen, if a mage casts fire it will burn out after a while and not burn forever, to keep a furnace fueled there would be the need of mages around the clock to keep it going and at this point the costs would be too high, on the other hand technology can keep the furnace fueled around the clock with a fraction of the cost, its the same as the idea of using magic to turn a dynamo ... it would still require mages around the clock and its far easier and cheaper to just use water pressure to turn the dynamo. Magic is about creating a effect immediate as science is knowing how to create and maintain a effect, a bullet moves due to natural laws as a magic missile is simply a pebble being speed up by a magical effect ... it might look the same but its easier to teach someone to use a rifle that teach someone to cast magic missile.
But in the end, its about costs ... I havent played D&D in decades now but looking at the d20SRD page I am seeing costs in the thousands, a wand of fireball is Spell level × caster level × 750 gp, 11,250gp for the basic wand with 50 charges, this is not insignificant costs.
The reason why technology is better is because unlike magic everyone can use it (even were magic is common, its still requires a degree of training) and its not reliant on mages to persists, permanent effects are not something that can just happen, if a mage casts fire it will burn out after a while and not burn forever, to keep a furnace fueled there would be the need of mages around the clock to keep it going and at this point the costs would be too high, on the other hand technology can keep the furnace fueled around the clock with a fraction of the cost, its the same as the idea of using magic to turn a dynamo ... it would still require mages around the clock and its far easier and cheaper to just use water pressure to turn the dynamo. Magic is about creating a effect immediate as science is knowing how to create and maintain a effect, a bullet moves due to natural laws as a magic missile is simply a pebble being speed up by a magical effect ... it might look the same but its easier to teach someone to use a rifle that teach someone to cast magic missile.
Fed-Kun's army
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2018
- Messages
- 388
@Acolytus
I'd say that the model is Meiji Japan, rather than WWII Japan, though. A faraway country that is surprising everyone by getting up to date with the latest technology in only a few years? A recently created new modern army? Mention of some rebellion and a campaign in the north? Asking this universe's Not!Britain for military advisors? Yep, it all sounds Meiji to me. The whole setting seems very 19th century, which is also another reason the themes about racism and imperialism fit.
I'm positively surprised by this too. So used to depictions of Not!Japan as this peaceful and nice country targeted by insidious foreign powers, a Not!Japan that suffers from classism, sexism and racism, and who is trying to manipulate foreign intervention for their own benefit, is refreshing.
I'd say that the model is Meiji Japan, rather than WWII Japan, though. A faraway country that is surprising everyone by getting up to date with the latest technology in only a few years? A recently created new modern army? Mention of some rebellion and a campaign in the north? Asking this universe's Not!Britain for military advisors? Yep, it all sounds Meiji to me. The whole setting seems very 19th century, which is also another reason the themes about racism and imperialism fit.
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2018
- Messages
- 4,268
@acolytus @misticsan When i read that they where going to a Not!japan , i was ready for some idealized version of the country, but when i see those assholes going all "dont touch me inferior race" and "you serve only to procriate, woman" i have to say my respect for the author rised, its obvious that we will discover that the hasas are made of the opressed races and are trying to topple the tiranny of the ONI OVERLORDS, but i do like Gil Gara and his wife ( forgot her name ), and more important than anything they have a not!katja as their leader so i was sold some chapter ago.
For those of you that are craving for some inventive magic system with a good story and art, i sugest you guys read witch hat atelier, because man that is a manga for the ages.
@misticsan have to say that is some awesome profile pic.
For those of you that are craving for some inventive magic system with a good story and art, i sugest you guys read witch hat atelier, because man that is a manga for the ages.
@misticsan have to say that is some awesome profile pic.
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2018
- Messages
- 3,134
@Exile I was just expressing my dislike of magic systems based on bloodlines and families in fiction and love for D&Ds, I did not mean to start a magic VS technology debate.
@Misticsan @alacaelum @Acolytus
I find it fascinating that we all thought something similar, we're so used to them praising the "eastern island nation" in various Manga, that it's refreshing to us when one just focuses on the world's setting.
@Misticsan @alacaelum @Acolytus
I find it fascinating that we all thought something similar, we're so used to them praising the "eastern island nation" in various Manga, that it's refreshing to us when one just focuses on the world's setting.
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2018
- Messages
- 3,134
@alacaelum Same, Batoto's comment sections were pure fun, such open-discourse among fans was an awesome thing to experience.
Fed-Kun's army
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2018
- Messages
- 388
@gaigous @alacaelum Yeah, I'm loving the choices for the setting in that regard. Of course, it's not just Japanese fiction; the tropes "creator provincialism" and "Eagleland" exist for a reason. It's also noticeable in other countries that are not "Japan". Check many anime and manga, and the "good" nation tends to be this country that is peaceful, isolationist and neutral. Meanwhile, the great foreign superpowers plot evil things for them because they covet their land, resources or are just dicks.
Interestingly, the Not!Japans rarely cross into Imperial Nostalgia territory. You know the drill: there will be a vaguely Germanic Empire/Kingdom/Authoritarian power with aristocratic paraphernalia. Sure, they may be power-hungry aggressors, but they are COOL. And their characters talk a lot about honor, duty, loyalty, etc. Well, they may commit crimes sometimes (or very often), but, hey, since they have some sympathetic characters, we shouldn't judge them too harshly. Wars are bad, right? And warring countries do bad things, including the "good guys" sometimes. Ergo, it means that as long as the war ends everything is fine and nobody should think of pesky questions such as "who started it", "why they started it", "who committed war crimes" and "who should pay war reparations".
Bonus points if the democratic powers in the setting are presented as equally evil or morally bankrupt, and if the moral is that the Empire would be the best and most efficient country in the universe if only the "right" person was in charge.
This setting seems a bit more self-conscious in its treatment of geopolitics, so I'm moderately optimistic. This very chapter points out that the "good guys" still remain agents of another foreign superpower who wants to increase its influence in the region. It's just that they are more benevolently pragmatic about it than the opposition.
And yes, I also miss Batoto comments
Interestingly, the Not!Japans rarely cross into Imperial Nostalgia territory. You know the drill: there will be a vaguely Germanic Empire/Kingdom/Authoritarian power with aristocratic paraphernalia. Sure, they may be power-hungry aggressors, but they are COOL. And their characters talk a lot about honor, duty, loyalty, etc. Well, they may commit crimes sometimes (or very often), but, hey, since they have some sympathetic characters, we shouldn't judge them too harshly. Wars are bad, right? And warring countries do bad things, including the "good guys" sometimes. Ergo, it means that as long as the war ends everything is fine and nobody should think of pesky questions such as "who started it", "why they started it", "who committed war crimes" and "who should pay war reparations".
Bonus points if the democratic powers in the setting are presented as equally evil or morally bankrupt, and if the moral is that the Empire would be the best and most efficient country in the universe if only the "right" person was in charge.
This setting seems a bit more self-conscious in its treatment of geopolitics, so I'm moderately optimistic. This very chapter points out that the "good guys" still remain agents of another foreign superpower who wants to increase its influence in the region. It's just that they are more benevolently pragmatic about it than the opposition.
And yes, I also miss Batoto comments
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2018
- Messages
- 3,134
@Misticsan Now that you mention it, yeah, all of that crap is everywhere, the big empire is an outright bully, but it's okay because they have knights and chivalry, the kingdom is filled with greedy nobles and a useless king, but the princess is Jesus to the common folk, so all is forgiven, the democratic nation is just a parody of the US, and the merchants republic is portrayed as a bunch of thieves looking for the first opportunity to sell out, It's like, does everything have to be a caricature of itself these days?
I've been thinking about similarly frustrating habits with how villain protagonists are written, their backstory almost always involves some childhood trauma or sob story to shoehorn sympathy and serve as an "explanation" for why they do such things, when I would much prefer a character like Kira who has a goal they want to accomplish, or one like Lex Luthor who does everything for personal gain, collateral be damned, I mean, for the love of god, I have zero desire or need to sympathize with a villain, I just want to be entertained by them, if I wanted to connect with a character, I would read some SOL.
The author is trying to give the world substance, it's an attempt to respect the reader's intelligence, it's a start, which is more than I can say about 70% of the other crap out there.
It's the same person who did Qwaser and Mai-Otome, so I expect the last 2-3 arcs will be pure awesome, balls to the wall greatness, etc.
I've been thinking about similarly frustrating habits with how villain protagonists are written, their backstory almost always involves some childhood trauma or sob story to shoehorn sympathy and serve as an "explanation" for why they do such things, when I would much prefer a character like Kira who has a goal they want to accomplish, or one like Lex Luthor who does everything for personal gain, collateral be damned, I mean, for the love of god, I have zero desire or need to sympathize with a villain, I just want to be entertained by them, if I wanted to connect with a character, I would read some SOL.
The author is trying to give the world substance, it's an attempt to respect the reader's intelligence, it's a start, which is more than I can say about 70% of the other crap out there.
It's the same person who did Qwaser and Mai-Otome, so I expect the last 2-3 arcs will be pure awesome, balls to the wall greatness, etc.
Member
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2018
- Messages
- 715
Noticed that the finemang website is down guys. If the group is having difficulties please let the rest of us know if we can help. Anyway, thanks for still releasing the chapter regardless, looking forward to chapter 23 and hopefully with a direct download available. Thanks so much for your hard work, so please keep it up.
Member
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2018
- Messages
- 715
Hey guys, just so you all know the original scanlators site got taken down. Here are the links for the new site, until mangadex upgrades finemang's group page here.
finemangscans.wordpress.com
finemang.mangadex.com
finemangscans.wordpress.com
finemang.mangadex.com
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2018
- Messages
- 3,134
@KrimzonHawka That is unfortunate, thank you for the update!
