SHY - Vol. 12 Ch. 103 - I Am Shy

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You could have just said you are Anti-Yuri instead of typing all that since that seems to basically what it boils down to. Any justification for your view for the gals not to be into each other.

The fact you earlier said you would rather Shy be with Daigo, a literal small child, instead of a person her age was already...odd enough.
1) I reread the entire manga because I thought I missed something else because I got the detail with Iko wrong. That's not someone looking for any justification. Regardless, it doesn't matter because it doesn't refute the argument or the references I have for why I believe what I believe. If there is fault with them, show it to me. I could just as easily dismiss you by saying you're pro-yuri and looking for any justification to put them together, which is why we have to argue about the material itself.

2) I would assume this would happen after they got older, and like I said it would be thematically appropriate. Like think of a chapter set after the main story like 10-15 years later that shows where everyone has end up.
Regardless, the criticism here is a needless attack on me morally in a conversation where it is not relevant. I could make up some framing to make it seem like your character is in question for reading a manga about teenagers-but we understand that's stupid and irrelevant to the point
 
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IEdit: For even more evidence on my sun and moon lesbians point, while Teru's name is in katakana (spelled テル), a quick look on jisho shows that Teru (spelled 照る) is a verb meaning "to shine." This contrasts nicely with Iko's new shadow powers.
The kanji for Teru's name is 輝 which the main meaning would be Shine which is also linked to her sister in some ways, there's some other stuff involving Shadow. Anyways, this confession is definitely framed as a confession, the line in Japanese is even clearer about that in my opinion. Just wait until people see how Iko reacts when...
Sekirara is flirting with Teru in future chapters, even more so because she's the only character reacting that way.

People reading this mainly for the romance will be fed some crumbs every few dozens of chapters. There are a ton of yuri banger titles being released to quell the thirst for those who want that but the characters in this manga are too busy saving the world for dating.
 
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If i'm not totally on-board with the yuri ending (even though i would be happy if there is one but it's a shonen after all), the fact that someone want the MC to end with a character that we don't even see after the first couple of chapter is beyond me. You could have say L'Arc, you could say Stardust, Nirvana or even Mian Long but you choose a character that have 0 presence outside of the first couple of chapters and so de facto have grown 0 relation to Shy/Teru, and most importantly, is a kid. Like you can have a het ship on this manga, i don't really mind because i don't think there will be any endgame ship but come on, at least take a realistic one.
 
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If i'm not totally on-board with the yuri ending (even though i would be happy if there is one but it's a shonen after all), the fact that someone want the MC to end with a character that we don't even see after the first couple of chapter is beyond me. You could have say L'Arc, you could say Stardust, Nirvana or even Mian Long but you choose a character that have 0 presence outside of the first couple of chapters and so de facto have grown 0 relation to Shy/Teru, and most importantly, is a kid. Like you can have a het ship on this manga, i don't really mind because i don't think there will be any endgame ship but come on, at least take a realistic one.
If you read the second post I made, I said it wasn't going to happen because it's pretty heavily implied its going to be Nirvana.

Like I said, the Daigo thing was more about coming full circle.
 
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If anything it's another one of Nirvana group that end up falling for Teru
 
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Nirvana is still carrying a torch for Mei, so unlikely.
At the very least there's a conflict there based on how flustered she gets with him, and her wondering to herself if this is what love feels like. (Chapter 84)

It could be interesting if as a parallel she falls in love with him but he doesn't rescind because he still has feelings for Mei. I can see story potential in it-though I haven't read ahead (I checked the later chapters in Italian but didn't read them, just looking for if there was stuff with Iko that I missed) and we don't know how exactly Mei still lives on-so if she's alive through Stigma he might learn to move on.

The...adult man?

Even if you mean "well obviously he'd wait til she's an adult"...that's still a major red flag for a character. Crimson flag.
He seems to be a little younger than her sister was based on some stuff from future. (Chapter 114) He's not an adult (he looks and acts like a teenager) and the age gap there isn't very large. Not to mention girls shy's age having crushes on older men isn't exactly unusual as women are attracted to men older than them.

If anything the trope of the girl having a crush on an upperclassman is pretty common, all things considered.

If anything it's another one of Nirvana group that end up falling for Teru
I haven't read very far ahead so it's more than possible. Like I said I made this assessment based on the information I have to hand. I haven't seen anything that shows beyond a shadow of a doubt to me that Iko is just really close with Teru-especially in comparison to how other romantic relationships in the manga are pretty explicit and on the nose.
 
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I swear every time their is a hint of wlw in any manga without the 'usual' tag for this (and actually not just Yuri, but anything with any hint of queerness), some people just lost their damn mind. Like, they can't their 'normal' manga can have any of these thing so they twist pretty much everything too fit their view and everyone else who disagree are just moron that can't see the truth.

Anyway since it's a shonen we will probably not get any real pairing until the very end since romance it's not the focus. I totally expect at worst a 'Up to interpretation' ending because we don't live in a world where editor of a shonen publication wouldn't try to shot down any explicit gay ending yet.
 
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Part of the issue is in japanese culture, homosexuality is seen as something people engage with in their youth and then grow out of- at least in more traditionalist circles. Which is why in japanese media you tend to see yuri and yaoi be things between like teenagers.

I don't agree with this perspective, but in order to understand a lot of the tropes in Japanese media, you have to understand the view that there's a prominent perception in Japanese culture that they're "just fooling around." Western Media luckily does avoid this trope generally, with gay characters staying gay, bi characters staying bi, etc. I think we could do more with characters learning they are another sexuality then they think and such, but that is because of the very western and liberal perspective we have. I don't know if it's fair to interpret foreign media similarly.
The basis of your argument of this applying to this series hinges on the assumption that the author is part of such traditional circles, who have become more and more of a minority in Japan. The publishers might be more conservative, but the same can't be said for the authors themselves.

If you've ever seen women interact, them calling each other cute or blushing at each other is fairly normal, and even things like hugging or holding hands is seen as not necessarily intimate.
My ship isn't happening based on her reaction to falling on Niravana in chapter 85. She like instantly is into him.
You just contradicted yourself here. Throughout the series, Teru reacts the same way to any unexpected intimate contact, by flustering and blushing furiously. No matter it's from Iko, from Nirvana, from Lady Black, from Spirits, from Pulse, from other minor characters. There was literally nothing that makes her reaction to Nirvana more special than the others. Frankly, Nirvana is one of the more unlikely ships among these, since whenever Teru thinks about Nirvana, the focus of her mind almost always seem to be on her sister and his relation to her instead of on Nirvana himself. And as others have mentioned in this thread, neither does Nirvana show romantic interest in Shy, and he'd honestly be a pedophile if he does.

I agree that Teru doesn't appear to be particularly romantically attracted to Iko, even in the latest Japanese raws, but that's because she doesn't appear to be particularly romantically attracted to anyone. She finds people hot regardless of gender, and her reactions in those situations always seem to be to admire the beauty of the person instead of wanting to develop a romantic relationship with them.

Your point of Iko not being a love interest revolves around Teru not considering her as a love interest, when that was not the relevant issue here. The point here is that Iko is narratively framed as a love interest. In harem manga with dense protags, the love interests are obviously love interests whether the dense protag realizes or not, because that's how the narrative frames them to be.

Taking care of someone while they're sick, sending someone off before they go to battle, these are all common tropes used to frame a character as a love interest. Yes, these things can be done between people who aren't romantically involved, but this is fiction, and when an author utilizes a certain trope in their fiction it conveys a certain message to the audience. Just because the use of the trope did not meet your own expectations does not mean the trope wasn't used.

In chapter 89 she says she's her best friend, not her romantic implication. This is from a ring that can read her heart and her thoughts, and if it was stronger for it to say "love interest," I'm pretty sure it would.
In the raws, the word Shadow used was "大事な人", meaning "important/precious person", or in other words, "significant other". So if you ask how strong her feelings for Teru is, I'd say it's pretty strong.


Ai already has a character who's implied to be her love interest in Tokimaru. Hence why he tracks her down everywhere and is very protective of her at all times to make sure she doesn't get hurt. This is different from Iko because you can see AI and Tokimaru arguing like an old married couple in chapter 34 and how she calls him an idiot, but is still very flustered by him according to her body language and generally just being a tsundere. Unlike Teru-who does good things out of a sense of obligation or duty-or Iko-who does it out of reciprocity-Ai has no incentive to be nice to Tokimaru and she's trained to repress her emotions, so her being flustered or doing good things for him like preparing him meals seems much more along the lines of being interested in him. He's wearing a scarf she gifted to him which she says in chapter 37 is like a second skin to him, and she gets notably flustered at this, and the fact he's half naked. Not to mention chapter 50 showing them to have a close bond since childhood. Narratively, the fact you ignored this is a big whole in your analysis and kinda shows your own biases. (Oh yeah and we know it's romance because AI OUTRIGHT SAYS HE IS in chapter 65)
Regarding this part about Ai already having a love interest in Tokimaru, remember that Tokimaru outright confessed to Ai in chapter 37 and while Ai has always acknowledged his feelings afterwards (e.g. chapter 65), not once did she show reciprocation for such feelings romantically. If the scarf she gave Tokimaru is as important to her as it is to Tokimaru, she wouldn't have forgotten about giving it to him in the first place.
You said Ai had no incentive to care for Tokimaru, but you also admitted that they have a close bond since childhood and they are comrades work towards a common goal. Wouldn't that be enough reason for her to care for him as, by your terms, Friends? Not to mention Tokimaru has worked as a bodyguard for her since long ago and a lord is expected to care for their servants, so the point about doing it out of obligation & reciprocity both apply to Ai in her care for him.
Not saying the pairing couldn't work— it's just that it doesn't really hold more ground to it than the pairing between Iko and Teru.


As I went through the story, I am steadily reminded of a CS Lewis quote:
The fallacy in your use of this quote here (or throughout your whole argument, really) is that, you seem to equate romance with Eros, or sexuality. Sitting side by side with each other and sharing a common view, bringing out the best of each other... these are all qualities that contribute to a healthy and long-lasting relationship, rather than the passions of the moment. Friendships don't have to be romantic love, but a healthy romantic relationship must be consisted of Friendship.

I mean, just look at the anime ep4 ending theme and its MV. It's obvious that Iko is meant to be the main ship for Teru.
 
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At the very least there's a conflict there based on how flustered she gets with him, and her wondering to herself if this is what love feels like. (Chapter 84)
She wondered to herself whether he was Mei's boyfirend, and wondered what would love feel like. This is in reaction to the idea of Mei having a boyfriend and not from seeing Nirvana as a potential partner. The story then introduces Sekilala, a character that represents romantic love and longing. This is a common writing technique, if you want to twist the narrative, do as you please.

He seems to be a little younger than her sister was based on some stuff from future. (Chapter 114) He's not an adult (he looks and acts like a teenager) and the age gap there isn't very large. Not to mention girls shy's age having crushes on older men isn't exactly unusual as women are attracted to men older than them.
He's... literally stated to be the same age as Mei in chapter 116...

I thought her getting with Iko's brother would just be good because it book ends the series by inspiring him like her sister inspired her, and would make her and Iko sisters in law.
It could be interesting if as a parallel she falls in love with him but he doesn't rescind because he still has feelings for Mei. I can see story potential in it-though I haven't read ahead (I checked the later chapters in Italian but didn't read them, just looking for if there was stuff with Iko that I missed) and we don't know how exactly Mei still lives on-so if she's alive through Stigma he might learn to move on.
Like, these ideas could make an interesting premise for a story and you're also welcome to write your own fanfictions of the series with them if you want. But it's another matter when you project them into the series itself as despite the evidence.
 
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Well tbf, there is some Spirits/Shy shipper and she is as old as Stardust.

(I'm more of a Pilse/Teru shipper but that's between you and me)
 
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The basis of your argument of this applying to this series hinges on the assumption that the author is part of such traditional circles, who have become more and more of a minority in Japan. The publishers might be more conservative, but the same can't be said for the authors themselves.
Yes. It is an assumption, but understanding that the mentality around sexuality in japan is different from America is important to understanding a piece of work.
You just contradicted yourself here
Not really. I can post the reactions of how she blushes normally vs how she interacts with Nirvana. It is really night and day. As I said, context and framing is important. The framing here is far more in timate with how she's on his chest and touching him, and how she blushes and reacts in terms of body language is very different.

Notice how I said "context is what is important here." The manga is all about the different connections people have with one another as a reoccuring theme, and that not all love is romantic or sexual. Pepesha saying her mother loved her the most, Teru's sister saying Teru's her most precious person, etc. Context is important.
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The fact she looks at a man and is instantly infatuated with him should indicate she's at least into men.



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Nirvana's presented as a man with a lot of natural charisma and her going instantly-albeit nervously-touch his face like that- and being that close does show some level of attraction.
Taking care of someone while they're sick, sending someone off before they go to battle, these are all common tropes used to frame a character as a love interest. Yes, these things can be done between people who aren't romantically involved, but this is fiction, and when an author utilizes a certain trope in their fiction it conveys a certain message to the audience. Just because the use of the trope did not meet your own expectations does not mean the trope wasn't used.
Which is why I brought up the context here and framing.

It's not shown to be intimate. Compare/contrast here for example:
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You can tell by the body language this isn't romantic or the kind of intimacy you would expect from a romantic encounter but is more of a sisterly kind of friendship. The fact Teru looks at her and thinks of her sister is more what you would expect from this. The most is Iko's enthusiasm when she offers to ride on her back again, but that seems more like playful teasing than anything sexual or romantic.

It also ignores that this story seems to be more like that of a girl learning to come out of her shell and make friends. If Iko is in love with Teru, it makes this less heartwarming because it diminishes the value of her learning that she can be normal and that Iko is acting out of kindness rather than her own desires.

Look at other manga for how this chapter contrasts
Compare this to the arc in Nagatoro when Senpai is sick.

When he's sick Nagatoro texts him because he's not in the club room, and when she learns he's sick her entire demeanor changes.
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And then she blames herself for it spreading to him.

She then shows up at his house uninvited and proceeds to try and take care of him.
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Do you notice the change in behavior when they're sick? The differences from the normal temperament?

Then there's how Nagatoro flirts with him. She goes to look for dirty magazines and when she needs to measure his temperature, she uses this opportunity to get intimate.
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Then when she goes to cook for him, he imagines her as his wife and even calls her by her first name.
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This is her reaction
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Do you see how the expression of shock is different from the standard blushing tone you'd expect?
She then threatens to kiss him when he's asleep.
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Do you see how the tone and atmosphere is discernably different? Do you see how the character's actions in comparison seem a lot more intimate and connected?


Taking care of someone while they're sick, sending someone off before they go to battle, these are all common tropes used to frame a character as a love interest. Yes, these things can be done between people who aren't romantically involved, but this is fiction, and when an author utilizes a certain trope in their fiction it conveys a certain message to the audience. Just because the use of the trope did not meet your own expectations does not mean the trope wasn't used.
A trope can be employed for various purposes. The sick episode isn't exclusive for romance but is pretty general, but is useful for showing an intimate connection between characters.

In other words, the logic is a non-sequitur because you can not conclude from it that which is definite, only that which is probable or drawing an inference from the text. However, if there is textual evidence to suggest otherwise, then it may not be as it seems.

In this case, given how the theme of this manga seems to be the various connections people have to one another, employing this trope not out of romance but out of sororal love seems to be more endemic of the large theme as a whole and makes their relationship as platonic life partners stronger.

In the raws, the word Shadow used was "大事な人", meaning "important/precious person", or in other words, "significant other". So if you ask how strong her feelings for Teru is, I'd say it's pretty strong.
How else is that phrased used throughout the text? Because if it's how Pepesha's mother describes Pepesha and how Nirvana describes Mei's relation to Teru, then I would say it's more related to the non-romantic but familial theme that's prevalent throughout the work. Same way how the term "Habibi" literally means "beloved" but can also mean "Dear friend" or "close person" rather than literal bonds.

Even then, I think of Sam and Frodo, Patroclus and Achilles, Gilgamesh and Enkidu, Hamlet and Horatio, etc. and think that it's a case of people misunderstanding how close people can be without being romantically interested.

(We will return to CS lewis in a moment)
Regarding this part about Ai already having a love interest in Tokimaru, remember that Tokimaru outright confessed to Ai in chapter 37 and while Ai has always acknowledged his feelings afterwards (e.g. chapter 65), not once did she show reciprocation for such feelings romantically. If the scarf she gave Tokimaru is as important to her as it is to Tokimaru, she wouldn't have forgotten about giving it to him in the first place.
He does not confess in chapter 37. That's straight up not what happens.
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She is clearly shocked, embarrassed and flattered by the fact he still has the scarf but she doesn't do what you said she does.
In chapter 65 she's doesn't reject him. She just says that his impassioned speech to Mai isn't something "the main character of a romance should say" and she's clearly moved by it. From that point on she refers to her being with her sister and Tokimaru as their destiny and no matter what happens the three of them will always be reborn again (chapter 68). In chapter 72 we see him blame himself for how Mai turned out and Ai says it doesn't matter that the three of them are back together again, just as Mai dies.

The last interaction Tokumaru has is when he goes into his tengu form and Mai's dying wish is for him to carry her off to eternity and for him to watch over Ai forever. Ai never acknowedlges his feelings directly. That is factually incorrect, and the fact it's Mai's dying wish for him to protect Ai forever kinda implies they do get together in some form if only because that would be the best way to protect her is to be always by her side.

You said Ai had no incentive to care for Tokimaru, but you also admitted that they have a close bond since childhood and they are comrades work towards a common goal. Wouldn't that be enough reason for her to care for him as, by your terms, Friends? Not to mention Tokimaru has worked as a bodyguard for her since long ago and a lord is expected to care for their servants, so the point about doing it out of obligation & reciprocity both apply to Ai in her care for him.
She had no incentive AT THAT MOMENT because SHE WANTED HIM TO GO AWAY.
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1/2
 
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I remind you he was fighting her a few chapters earlier. These two definitely sound like an old married couple as she nags him despite doing things to take care of him like trying to find a place for him to sleep and cooking him dinner. The fact she still does this despite not wanting him to be here does go beyond kindness, especially when you factor in body language. Could it be because of his background with her? Sure, but you have to admit there's chemistry working here especially with the whole "death bed confession" thing.

If Shine told Iko to stay by Teru's side forever, I would certainly say that's a big hint at them becoming a couple. The fact that he was paired with Iko and Teru as a threesome despite all the character work at putting them together shows you were people's heads are at.

The fallacy in your use of this quote here (or throughout your whole argument, really) is that, you seem to equate romance with Eros, or sexuality. Sitting side by side with each other and sharing a common view, bringing out the best of each other... these are all qualities that contribute to a healthy and long-lasting relationship, rather than the passions of the moment. Friendships don't have to be romantic love, but a healthy romantic relationship must be consisted of Friendship.
The quote is from CS Lewis's Four Forms of love which he cites in accordance similar to those of the Greek understanding of love. (Storge, Philia, Eros, and Agape)
Storge is the inherent empathy bond between family, such as between parent and offspring.

Philia is friendship, companionship, etc. This is the kind of love I am positing exists between Iko and Teru. David and Jonathan, Orestes and Pylades, Roland and Oliver, Amis and Amiles, etc.

"To the Ancients, Friendship seemed the happiest and most fully human of all loves; the crown of life and the school of virtue. The modern world, in comparison, ignores it".
Lewis considered this the most noble kind of love and the kind of love seen most as a virtue as it embodies loyalty and is not a built in mechanism for survival. Instead it's one that arrives as a result of human connectedness, shared values and profound respect for one another. You often see this in hero stories, be it with Peter Parker and Ned Leeds/Harry Osborn, Captain America and Bucky, Batman and Superman, Iron Fist and Luke Cage, etc.


Eros in this context IS NOT sexuality, but it is a part of it. Eros is romantic love in Lewis's work. Instead in this context, eros is more of a neutral force, which can turn into lust (which he calls Venus). Wanting women vs wanting a particular woman. It arises between the conflict between man as a rational animal and a creature of instinct.

His fourth kind was agape which is unconditional love-which Shy tends to represent through her perception of duty to humanity as a hero, as is seen in the earlier chapters.

Now, I don't expect you to have a fully developed understanding of things like the philosophy of love, how the greeks viewed love, or how CS Lewis viewed love. However, I do find it interesting that when I go to great lengths to differentiate the kind of love I think that exists between Iko and Teru, you accuse me of conflating the two without at least looking up the terms being used. It really does show a lack of charity.

He's... literally stated to be the same age as Mei in chapter 116...
Okay I stand corrected. I said he seemed that way but I made it clear I was operating on the information I had available to me. Even then if the age gap is the size of that between Teru and Mei, it wouldn't be as inherently creepy as the person I am responding to framed it as, nor does it refute the core of the point which is that if he's still a teen, the age gap there isn't going to be very large. It's well within the bounds of possibility within that point and trying to dismiss the idea a girl might be infatuated with a slightly older man because it's weird is nonsensical.

Like, these ideas could make an interesting premise for a story and you're also welcome to write your own fanfictions of the series with them if you want. But it's another matter when you project them into the series itself as despite the evidence.
Suggesting or speculating on future plotlines or future sources of conflict between characters is not "projecting them onto the series." It's literally what every writer does because writers are looking for the story in everything and how to make interesting character interactions and themes throughout the work.

Given I have gone to great lengths to document my evidence and reasons for thinking what I think, the fact you say I am working "inspite of" and not "because of" shows the lack of charity I am given and who you're dismissing the idea on its face regardless of what I think would be consistent with the story or narrative at large.

2/2
 
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Well tbf, there is some Spirits/Shy shipper and she is as old as Stardust.

(I'm more of a Pilse/Teru shipper but that's between you and me)
I don't care how old fictional characters people ship are usually. I'm not going to shame people if they want two characters to end up together. If someone wants Iko to end up with Teru it's fine, it just bugs me when people say you HAVE to want that relationship or you're denying canon or can't have any other interpterion of the characters.

Personally I'm more Piltz/Ming Ming because I think they have such different personalities that it ends up being kinda wholesome. Plus it's literally the "he said no pickles" meme.
 
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Yes. It is an assumption, but understanding that the mentality around sexuality in japan is different from America is important to understanding a piece of work.
Reminder that not everyone lives in the United States, it seems you ignored my point about your views on the mentality around sexuality in Japan is outdated.

Such mentality might still be influential in the publishing companies, which is why the author refrained from committing to any of Teru's ships, at least up to the current point in the raws. Which is why one could say that each ship is on a more or less equal playing ground, as none of them are explicitly canon.

An important thing to remember when shipping is to respect other people's ships, to respect the official material, and to respect the characters. If someone disregards the official material and force ships in out-of-character ways, it really makes one wonder why don't they just write their own independent story and bring their neat little idea elsewhere instead.
Now what did you do? You started off dismissing other people's ships as being narratively inferior to what you have in mind, and then goes on to present rarer pairings that either has barely any justification within the official material (Daigo) or has reasons against it within the official material (Nirvana), as the supposedly narratively "better" option. You complained about the lack of charity you were given, to which I apologize, but I already tried providing as much respect I could muster.
You seem to accuse me of denying your freedom to ship, when I explicitly stated that your ideas are interesting and could be turned into good stories. I was just saying that you don't need to stuff words into the author's mouth while doing so. They might just be some random musings or speculations to you, but if your view of the characters are too different from the way others view them, you can't blame people for being a little bit appalled.


For the following points, excuse me for omitting the quotes because the pics would clog up the message.
For Teru's first encounter Nirvana, that scene serves two purposes: The first is to highlight Nirvana's physical attractiveness, and the other is to lead into Teru's encounter with Sekilala, the actual focus of the chapter as seen from the chapter title and the much longer screentime. (If I really want to ship Nirvana with anyone it'd be with Sekilala, but I digress)
If Teru is as infatuated with Nirvana as you stated, why do we never see her express longing for him even in her internal dialogue, when we're seeing the story from her viewpoint most of the time?

For the part about Iko's interaction with Teru and your comparison to other media, as I stated, just because the characters didn't behave in the way you expect them during a certain situation does not mean the author did not intend for it to represent that certain situation. Especially when a significant portion of the audience do not agree with such views. I'm not saying that it's definitely what the author meant, but judging by how it's also the angle the anime staff working with the author is pushing for, I'd wager IkoTeru is probably one of the ships that the author expects the audience to support.

How else is that phrased used throughout the text? Because if it's how Pepesha's mother describes Pepesha and how Nirvana describes Mei's relation to Teru, then I would say it's more related to the non-romantic but familial theme that's prevalent throughout the work. Same way how the term "Habibi" literally means "beloved" but can also mean "Dear friend" or "close person" rather than literal bonds.
It is literally what it says, "improtant person", and what it means is completely up to interpretation. The Japanese like to define it as "a person one cannot live without", could be because of emotional attachment or simply because they're the one providing for their livelihood.

For the part about Ai and Tokimaru, I... absolutely cannot fathom how does Tokimaru stating the girl he likes (which is obviously the romantic kind in this context) being Ai herself not count as a cofession....
The three of them have familial love between them and Tokimaru has romantic love for Ai, this part is established, and this doesn't mean Ai is obligated to reciprocate his feelings. This might have been lost in the translation, but the "That's not what the main character in a romance novel should say" quote was originally "Even the main characters of modern romance novels wouldn't say corny lines like that". A servant isn't supposed to be in love with their master, so Tokimaru's feelings would've normally been taboo. Not reciprocating Tokimaru's feeling does not mean a rejection, she acknowledged Tokimaru's feelings and allows him to continue holding them despite the inappropriateness, but neither party expressed desire for their relationship to change beyond the current master/servant one.
The scene you presented as example of Ai being a tsundere is an interaction that's also often seen between siblings in manga and anime, yes it exhibits the tsundere trope, but that does not mean the parties are romantically involved. If Ai is such a tsundere and she also has romantic feelings for Tokimaru, why would she acknowledge his feelings so readily, and promptly move on to talk about Mai and her mission? If you haven't noticed, Ai cares for Tokimaru as a person, but what she actually concerns herself with are Mai and her mission as a ninja. (to save people, not following orders. which led her to Shy.)
The ship between Ai and Tokimaru can work, but it needs justification for Ai's familial love to be seen as romantic love, just like the way you claim Iko's love towards Teru does.

Okay I stand corrected. I said he seemed that way but I made it clear I was operating on the information I had available to me. Even then if the age gap is the size of that between Teru and Mei, it wouldn't be as inherently creepy as the person I am responding to framed it as, nor does it refute the core of the point which is that if he's still a teen, the age gap there isn't going to be very large. It's well within the bounds of possibility within that point and trying to dismiss the idea a girl might be infatuated with a slightly older man because it's weird is nonsensical.
He's currently 22 while Teru is 14.
There are indeed plenty of cases irl where girls became infatuated with older men, but actively seeking such plot in fiction... reminds people of a certain type of people among our society.


The quote is from CS Lewis's…… (omitted)
I wasn't directly disputing Lewis's argument, I was disputing your use of it. You're the one that conflated Eros with sexuality, what's with the way you demand sexual attraction as proof for romantic attraction and whatnot.
My point, on the other hand, is that if one desires a romantic relationship to be lasting, the relationship has to have Philia as a basis and not just fueled by Eros.
In this definition of romance, a certain pair of characters exhibiting Philia only makes them more suitable for a ship, instead of detracting from it.


Welp, I think I've spent too much time in this conversation so that'll be all from me.
Gotta work on the next chapters, and I won't be responding to further messages in this conversation.
 
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This argument is extremely stupid. Rather than projecting your feelings and wishes onto the story, let the story speak for itself. If it is yuri it will be shown. If it isn't, it will be shown. Hell, if it's meant to be ambiguous then it will be kept ambiguous. Arguing about interpretations in the middle is premature and stupid.
 
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the mangaka does yuri one-shots. It's GL. It's just a shonen so it's just going the traditional shonen route of Iko being first girl orihime/hinata/etc/etc/etc. anyone arguing otherwise and stretching like this is clearly doing it in bad faith lol. even the anime is hard focusing on the other girls with her. Like Iko got 'gf' status in the OP/ED.

Also the mangaka wants broad appeal and that ain't happening pairing the child with an adult man
 

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