Sono Bisque Doll wa Koi o Suru - Ch. 106

[lowarctic]

honestly I’m surprised the author didn’t have Non didn’t explain that she wanted to cheer Gojo up and was sad and jealous when he left, that’s the normal kind of miscommunication resolution you would expect in a romance manga

 

[Santouryuu]

I'd love to be wrong. That's why I'd at least read to the end of this arc. But I don't think the author even understands that the relationship they're portraying is a toxic one and that something needs to be done to correct it.

This may actually be true. I think the author intended for the Haniel cosplay to be the final cosplay costume arc, for now at least. Given the intensity of this cosplay, anything else coming afterwards would feel not up to the mark. However, she seems to have had no idea how to make that play out organically, so all this stuff about Marin realising Gojo's true dream being ignored, or her father talking about the lack of payment etc seems more like a desperate excuse to stall the cosplaying and focus on on the character drama, instead of a proper reckoning of the toxicity in their relationship.

Drama never was the series's strong point, and I totally understand the scepticism. Hopefully the way this goes is that Goujo realises he likes cosplay as much as he likes Hina Dolls, if not more. This esp makes sense since we now know his obsession with Hina dolls was for the most part a coping mechanism to deal with the loss of his parents. Then, he starts to do cosplay stuff with the other girls maybe or something? That's the only way I see this working properly. But will the author allow her fav Marin to "lose" like this? Doubtful

 

[BadChase]

(I posted this in the Church of Potteto's version of this chapter as well, but I prefer Tonikaku Scans' translation, so I thought I might as well post it here as well. Broadly the same, with an addendum regarding further thoughts on this chapter at the bottom)

I've been ruminating on the last couple of chapters since they came out, and have kinda changed my mind about Marin and Gojou's relationship, especially after reading some of the comments people left. It has become increasingly clear that this honestly isn't healthy. For either of them. They're codependent, with Gojou enabling Marin's lack of responsibility and emotionally selfish nature. There's a lot of wailing about the drama and people wanting a return to wholesomeness but if you take a step back, this doesn't feel wholesome at all. A relationship, especially a romantic one, should be mutually beneficial. Is this that?

Ask yourself; what does Gojou do for Marin? He makes her costumes, forgoing sleep, study, and even his own ambitions to do so. He cooks for her. He acts as a social bond to another cosplayer that can't stand Marin herself. He spends what must at this point be hundreds of hours and tens of thousands of yen to make her as happy as she can possibly be in her hobby.

What does Marin do for Gojou?

...

No, honestly, what does Marin do for Gojou? What interest does she actually show in him, as opposed to what he can do for her? Because as far as I can recall, Chapter 103 - in volume fucking 14 - is the first time the two of them went out and did something purely related to Gojou's interests and desires. Everything else is a result of or preparation for something that Marin or her friends wanted to do. She's "nice" to Gojou in that she doesn't immediately make fun of him for having a slightly weird hobby, but that's not some amazing feat - that's table stakes for being a decent human being. She has about as right to be considered a good partner as those interminable harem protagonists who get the girl because they are the only males in their stories who treat the romantic interests with basic respect.

"Oh, but he's gotten better at making hina dolls since he started helping her." "Oh, he met that other friend as a result of his interest in prop-making." "Oh, the class has a better opinion of him since he helped do her makeup." If that's your response, you completely misread the question. I asked specifically what Marin actively chooses to do to for the purposes of helping Gojou out with his life.

See, a lot of people pointed out to this being a self-insert fic from the author, and I can see it. This story revolves around the interests of the female lead, and everything that the male lead wants or feels is sublimated to that. He wants to be a hina doll artist? Well, helping the female lead with her costumes makes him better at that! He wants to make friends and connect to the people around him? Well, joining the female lead's social group is how he does that! At no point does Marin actively reach out and try to aid him; she's a passive recipient to his efforts and the universe (read; the mangaka) rewards him for sacrificing everything to her.

You know you fucked up your romance when Nagatoro, the girl whose first encounter with her romantic partner ended with him in tears, ends up a healthier, more balanced, and more giving partner than your female lead. At least Nagatoro - who I remind everyone started out as NTR-bait emotional abuse porn on twitter - was aware of and concerned about the inner life of her partner!

You have to feel sorry for Gojou. He's been placed in a universe where he'll never win, will never find true happiness, except in subservience to anothers' whims. The manga even says so - Chapter 94. "Wakana, too... As long as he lives, I don't think he'll find satisfaction. So, Marin-chan, please make sure to praise the things that Wakana makes." Hell, even though during the last cosplaying arc with Haniel Gojou was actually into things for his own reasons, the way it got presented - with Gojou on his knees begging Marin for forgiveness for being "selfish" enough to ask her to cosplay as a character she told him she wanted to cosplay as - positions him as a supplicant to Marin.

And taking that line, that this isn't a romcom centered around an ecchi gyaru with a love of cosplay but instead a dramedy about a toxic relationship with that gyaru, actually puts their earlier interactions in a new light. Marin's strongest character trait, from the very beginning, was that she didn't care what other people felt. She didn't care if they thought she was rude, or if she was weird for openly talking about porn, or anything. Remember all that kinda pervy stuff from those early volumes? How uncomfortable Gojou felt every time she gave him stuff to watch or he had to measure her for costumes? Remember how she never cared at all about trying to make him feel more comfortable (or, hell, maybe compromising in the smallest possible way so that he didn't feel that way)? How she didn't care that exposing his skill as a tailor or makeup artist might scare him or alienate him from the class (you might say "she knew it wouldn't result in anything bad - but we NEVER see her reassure him about that! That seems like a great moment of caring and friendship that this manga just... never bothers with)?

Marin never compromises on what she wants. Compromising your desires is for Gojou.

I mentioned Marin being akin to a Manic Pixie Dream Girl; you know the trope. Super-bubbly extroverted "quirky" girl who meets a shy, introverted, inexpressive loner and slowly breaks down his shell with irrepressible energy. It's a common enough male fantasy in media. Except this is more the flipped version of it, the female fantasy. She's a teenager with basically no self-control (she spent thousands of dollars on a DSLR camera because it's model name started with the same letter as her own!), no ability to manage her life (shown by her eating habits), no thought towards social norms or niceties (framed as her being straightforward, but that's not really consistent with her absolute reticence regarding Gojou. A more consistent explanation is that she just doesn't care about offending or discomforting others), and ends up dumping all of the emotional and physical labor of their relationship onto Gojou.

This is coming off as more mean-spirited than I intend. Sure, she's way too nonchalant about how much she asks or expects from her partner. She's 15, though. And an only child. The only real, deep relationship she would have at this point is that to her parents, where she would be the passive recipient of all of their love and attention. That's how she acts in this relationship too; she's more like Gojou's child than his girlfriend. Of course she doesn't have the emotional maturity to actually give equally to a partner. And no one would expect her to. I'm not making a value judgement of her - just pointing out how unfair this whole situation is to him.

The longer this goes on, frankly, the less I want this romance to continue. Gojou gives so much, so readily, desperate for any scrap of acceptance. He's still mentally that orphan, scared of the world and dependent on a calcified shell to protect him from it. Closed, afraid to reach out and ask for help, to let anyone know that it's too much for him. He deserves someone who'll reach over, who'll tell him it's okay to rely on her for a while, that his needs matter too. A person who can say "we" instead of "I".

Because Marin sure as shit won't.

Hell, at this point I think Non would make a better pairing. At least in this chapter she treats Gojou as someone whose feelings matter and that she has to talk to when they have problems, rather than Marin's fundamentally cowardly and self-centered solution of just walking the fuck away whenever the risk of being vulnerable rears up.

ADDENDUM: So this chapter's ending can kind of be seen as Marin compromising, giving up on her goals to support Gojou. But if that's the case, if that's how it's meant to be perceived, the problem is even worse than I originally thought. Even for teenagers, this is painful to watch. Imagine that this happened to you. Imagine you had a friend who introduced you to a hobby - say, rock climbing or something else you were nervous about doing publically because of self-image issues, and introduced you to a friend group through it, and you've spent a bunch of time and energy with them enjoying this hobby together.

Then you try to introduce your friend to something you're interested in and you're kind of shy about. Maybe you're a high-level esports player trying to go pro and mention how much time it takes to practice your skills. You know, the kind of thing that friends talk about; the situations in their lives and the struggles they're going through. This is the first time you've opened up like this, after like half a year of friendship.

And then that friend, immediately afterwards, straight up ghosts you. That's kind of weird, you think, so you go to their house to see what's up, and that friend, before you can even finish asking about plans to go rock climbing next weekend, says that they never want to go rock climbing with you again. And their excuse is that obviously you care so much about being a professional esports player that you have no time for the hobby they introduced you to.

Do you understand how shocked and hurt and betrayed you'd feel at that moment?

This is not a romance. I'm sorry, it just isn't. Neither of these characters treat the other as a romantic interest. Gojou definitely doesn't see Marin in a romantic light - he doesn't even see her in an erotic way any more! He spent the night at her house, hopped up on aphrodisiac energy drinks, and thought nothing of it. And Marin doesn't even treat Gojou as a friend, let alone a potential boyfriend. She treats him like a simp. Where other girls might have a guy like him saved as "Free Lunch" on their phones, he's "Cheap Costumes". AND HE ALSO MAKES HER LUNCH! The only hint that she sees him as anything greater was her promising herself she would confess to him three arcs and two years ago. And then... nothing.

I am sorry but I have so many things to add here in which you are just remembering things completely wrong!

1.) Marin has always been paying and stood for the costs of all the Cosplay. It was so from the start, and she even said so just a few chapters ago when her Dad visited Gojou!

2.) Gojou forgoing sleep for the outfits? So far has happened twice, and once because of a misunderstanding and once because of HIS obsession. She has never asked him to do that, and in fact as far as I know she also thought that because he never said anything that was because he had the time for it. Also can you really say that all the work he has put in cant be used when making Hina dolls? Even the grandfather a while back said that it was/could be good training.

3.) Did Marin ever ask Gojou to make food or Bento? Actually it even started with her making Bento for him because of she was thankful for everything he done. For Gojou though, is it really such a pain for him to make food or bento for her? I mean think about it, he was already making food for himself and his grandfather and probably the bentos too, so adding 1 person is actually not that labor intensive. It might cost a bit, but that is something the grandfather is okay with so what is the problem?

4.) You kind of are writing as if Gojou is not enjoying all the activities that he gets up to when he is with her. Like when they went to the festival, he had a really good time. He saw things he had not seen with his own eyes before. He is also slowly opening up and healing the wounds he got as a small kid. I mean he has a trauma as well having become introverted, of course there is going to be some uncomfortable situations or him not being able to open up. Yet he still is there, why? Isnt because he wants to?

It is so weird, you remember how Gojou felt he was forcing but he really wanted Marin to wear the costume and took it to be something so negative, or what the Grandfather said about never being satisfied with his creations. Never thought that him doing that to Marin was a big step for him? It was something HE wanted her to DO, and nothing as you complained earlier "she forcefully had him do her whims", which is also not true. It was inspiration that hit him, and what he felt out of it is something we no longer know. We should know by now how good this Manga is at hiding what is the actual truth, like with Akira and her "dislike" for Marin.

Also which cosplayer does apparently hate being around Marin again? You said there was one, but I mean not even Juju-sama does actually dislike her. If she did, she wouldnt pick up the phone when Marin calls her. Akira? Nah, she is the "princess" super fan.

I really think a lot of people here are reading too much into all this. I mean remember, they are kids and at that age hormones run rampant and one can easily get swept away in them. That is what is happening here. And though I do agree it might be a little one sided sometimes, it is not even close to how one sided that you think. Also if you really think Gojou is not sexually attracted to Marin, then what is all the moments we have seen with him blushing.

I think some of you need to re-read this manga to get your facts straight and try and see the whole picture instead. Though I do hate the upcoming "misunderstanding" arc. Really hope it is 1 chapter at most...

 

[fight2live]

just. fucKING. COMMUNICATE LIKE A NORMAL PERSON GDI

i swear if next chapter Gojo asks "why" and Marin doesn't give explanation i will fucking drop this

 

[Endominus]

I am sorry but I have so many things to add here in which you are just remembering things completely wrong!

So this is a good example of what I meant about the magic circle. To people in the magic circle, all the points raised by those outside it seem minor and irrelevant, or even wrong, because they still extend the author that good faith. It is only when that good faith is no longer offered that these problems become glaring issues.

1. Gojou also pays for studio costs. Maybe you should reread a few chapters? And yeah, she pays for the materials. Materials are the cheapest parts of a costume. She's getting hers for a bargain compared to what he could get for selling his skills on the open market, and given that she's certainly looked at the costs of professionally done commercial costumes before, there's no way she doesn't know this.
   
   
2. It happened twice, the first time because of a misunderstanding that she apologized for. And then when it was happening again, she said and did nothing to prevent it. She just let it happen, despite her apologies before. She knows he gets like this, and chooses to ignore the deleterious effects this hobby has on him. She even knows that he has trouble expressing to others when their requests bother him or create undue strain - it was literally the point made in their very first conversation, and yet she has no problem taking his silence for acceptance when it benefits her.
   
   And take her actual words seriously when it does happen, when she sees him obsessing and losing sleep over the costume she asked him to make. She's more frustrated that he's paying more attention to the costume than her than concerned that he is in basically a fugue state. "He won't listen to me at all!"
   
   
3. No, she didn't. It was just another piece of labor that he silently took on without being asked, because they are codependent. He thinks nothing of feeding her, because his role in their relationship is closer to her mother than her friend. That was my point. Not that she is specifically asking him to take on these burdens, but that she takes advantage of his emotional vulnerability and need for acceptance and approval by letting him do all the heavy lifting in their relationship.
   
   
4. Is it because he wants to and is healing, or is it because he's in a toxic relationship and feels like he needs to have Marin's approval? Marin is not good for Gojou. She is not making him independent of her, she's just allowing him to exist in her orbit as long as he gives her stuff. As soon as that well looks like it's drying up she fucking ghosts him. Other people, people who are emotionally available and support him as he supports them, would be better for him.
   
   The best example of her complete disregard for his emotions, comfort, and sheer human limitations is the school festival arc, actually, where she just volunteers him out of the blue to do her costume and makeup. Because that's the one time I can absolutely say she forced that on him, without his knowledge or consent, against his (unspoken because he is terrible at voicing his discomfort but very obvious) wishes, and then she offered no reassurance, no understanding, and no interest in his opinion of the matter. When he points out that he'll have even less time than his first cosplay to do all the things she wants, how does she accomodate that struggle? "That sounds like we're so fucked, lol." It's everyone else in the class that stands up for him, telling him not to worry about building the stall and just focus on the cosplay. Marin, the extroverted one that's probably good friends with half the class, never says a word to ease his burden.
   
   
5. Yes, Juju is the one who doesn't like Marin very much. She hangs up on Marin immediately when she gets asked for things. She has no actual interest in Marin - she only talks to her because of the connection with Gojou.

Finally, I never said in that post that Marin was forcing Gojou to do anything. She's not blackmailing him or threatening him. The thing I mentioned, the thing that I went on and on about, is that she contributes nothing to their relationship and sacrifices nothing, not even her psychological comfort, for it's benefit. Every thing they do together is something that she wanted to do and would likely have done without him. Whereas everything he does, he does out of attention to her.

The most poignant thing to rebut the argument I gave, and the simplest, is to answer that initial question - what does Marin do for Gojou, solely for Gojou, out of affection and care for him?

 

[Billzilla2000]

(I posted this in the Church of Potteto's version of this chapter as well, but I prefer Tonikaku Scans' translation, so I thought I might as well post it here as well. Broadly the same, with an addendum regarding further thoughts on this chapter at the bottom)

...

Ask yourself; what does Gojou do for Marin? He makes her costumes, forgoing sleep, study, and even his own ambitions to do so. He cooks for her. He acts as a social bond to another cosplayer that can't stand Marin herself. He spends what must at this point be hundreds of hours and tens of thousands of yen to make her as happy as she can possibly be in her hobby.

What does Marin do for Gojou?

...

No, honestly, what does Marin do for Gojou?

What does Marin do for Gojou? Well, she has drawn him out of his dark quasi-hermit embarrassed existence. She also loves him, has fallen for him completely - and can't express it properly (like a thousand MCs I could list), is now worried she's taken advantage of him unfairly and is confused and angry with herself. I'm not saying that's a satisfying turn of events for those of us who've been along for the ride since the early days, but you purposely sidestepping her repeated freakouts over her paralytic affection for him in your extremely detailed and lengthy post seems to me like you're doing some logic gymnastics to arrive at a conclusion that she's just plain selfish and awful (which she now thinks she is).

What Gojou doesn't do for himself or HER is express himself in any way or make himself emotionally available or even, sometimes, approachable. In fact, he repeatedly demonstrates a lack of any emotional response to her clearly wanting to be around him (including non-cosplay outings). Other than popping a boner when she was on top of him you'd never even know he liked women that way. He's obsessed with his work, be it Hina Dolls or costume making. He loses himself in it. Not exactly a personal flaw but it's going to be up to Marin to find him in there and meet him, draw him out. She has to be bold and let go of her self-doubt. That's what the story is trying to say, that she is devastated that she now feels she's probably wasted his time - not that she's actually that selfish and horrible. Her 'mistake' was in assuming Gojou reciprocated her affections and would be receptive to her clearly flirting with him - again, repeatedly, this making all his hard work for her worth it for him, because she wants to be with him. For her it was never really about her fame or success (which she already has), but was doing something she loved and sharing it (and herself) with him. Without her pouring her energy and affection out to him like she has, he would never have discovered this whole new world, meeting new people, experiencing new things and places - and most importantly, learn to appreciate his own talents as he has - at least not the way she made it possible.

 

[Billzilla2000]

tl;dr as a relationship Marin and Gojo is messed up. Gojo works himself to the bone for Marin’s hobbies and in return Marin does… nothing.

Except bring him out of his self-imposed exile, make him aware of a broader sense of his talents, flirt like crazy, introduce him to lots of different and fascinating people, show him there's a beautiful and sexy world out there. Yeah, nothing at all.

 

[Endominus]

What does Marin do for Gojou? Well, she has drawn him out of his dark quasi-hermit embarrassed existence.

...

... bring him out of his self-imposed exile, make him aware of a broader sense of his talents, flirt like crazy, introduce him to lots of different and fascinating people, show him there's a beautiful and sexy world out there. Yeah, nothing at all.

Did you stop reading my post at the point you stopped quoting it? Because I continued. "If [this good thing has happened as a coincident result of Marin is] your response, you completely misread the question. I asked specifically what Marin actively chooses to do to for the purposes of helping Gojou out with his life."

Marin was never interested in the cause of his isolation - she just asked him to make costumes for her when she learned he could sew. Marin's flirting made him viscerally uncomfortable for a long time, but she never tried to address that or moderate her behavior to accomodate him. Marin never tried to introduce Gojou to any of those people. She never even tries to include him in the rest of their class. Juju sought him out because she noticed the quality of his work. Subaru they met coincidentally when they helped him out.

This is exactly what I was talking about when I said that the good things that happen to Gojou as a result of their relationship are gifts from the mangaka, not the result of Marin or anyone else actually trying to help him resolve his issues. "At no point does Marin actively reach out and try to aid him; she's a passive recipient to his efforts and the universe (read; the mangaka) rewards him for sacrificing everything to her."

you purposely sidestepping her repeated freakouts over her paralytic affection for him in your extremely detailed and lengthy post seems to me like you're doing some logic gymnastics to arrive at a conclusion that she's just plain selfish and awful (which she now thinks she is).

I ignored them because they were irrelevant to the point. If she is so paralyzed by her affection that she cannot provide emotional support to someone who needs it, then that is not, practically, different from being just plain emotionally absent. The fact that she feels all these things on the inside, that we get to see because we have privileged perspectives as an audience, is irrelevant to the truth of the characters on the ground. It does not change the nature of their relationship, except possibly make it more tragic that she cannot actually be a good partner for the person the mangaka assures us she is desperately in love with.

 

[nidaime]

(I posted this in the Church of Potteto's version of this chapter as well, but I prefer Tonikaku Scans' translation, so I thought I might as well post it here as well. Broadly the same, with an addendum regarding further thoughts on this chapter at the bottom)

I've been ruminating on the last couple of chapters since they came out, and have kinda changed my mind about Marin and Gojou's relationship, especially after reading some of the comments people left. It has become increasingly clear that this honestly isn't healthy. For either of them. They're codependent, with Gojou enabling Marin's lack of responsibility and emotionally selfish nature. There's a lot of wailing about the drama and people wanting a return to wholesomeness but if you take a step back, this doesn't feel wholesome at all. A relationship, especially a romantic one, should be mutually beneficial. Is this that?

Ask yourself; what does Gojou do for Marin? He makes her costumes, forgoing sleep, study, and even his own ambitions to do so. He cooks for her. He acts as a social bond to another cosplayer that can't stand Marin herself. He spends what must at this point be hundreds of hours and tens of thousands of yen to make her as happy as she can possibly be in her hobby.

What does Marin do for Gojou?

...

No, honestly, what does Marin do for Gojou? What interest does she actually show in him, as opposed to what he can do for her? Because as far as I can recall, Chapter 103 - in volume fucking 14 - is the first time the two of them went out and did something purely related to Gojou's interests and desires. Everything else is a result of or preparation for something that Marin or her friends wanted to do. She's "nice" to Gojou in that she doesn't immediately make fun of him for having a slightly weird hobby, but that's not some amazing feat - that's table stakes for being a decent human being. She has about as right to be considered a good partner as those interminable harem protagonists who get the girl because they are the only males in their stories who treat the romantic interests with basic respect.

"Oh, but he's gotten better at making hina dolls since he started helping her." "Oh, he met that other friend as a result of his interest in prop-making." "Oh, the class has a better opinion of him since he helped do her makeup." If that's your response, you completely misread the question. I asked specifically what Marin actively chooses to do to for the purposes of helping Gojou out with his life.

See, a lot of people pointed out to this being a self-insert fic from the author, and I can see it. This story revolves around the interests of the female lead, and everything that the male lead wants or feels is sublimated to that. He wants to be a hina doll artist? Well, helping the female lead with her costumes makes him better at that! He wants to make friends and connect to the people around him? Well, joining the female lead's social group is how he does that! At no point does Marin actively reach out and try to aid him; she's a passive recipient to his efforts and the universe (read; the mangaka) rewards him for sacrificing everything to her.

You know you fucked up your romance when Nagatoro, the girl whose first encounter with her romantic partner ended with him in tears, ends up a healthier, more balanced, and more giving partner than your female lead. At least Nagatoro - who I remind everyone started out as NTR-bait emotional abuse porn on twitter - was aware of and concerned about the inner life of her partner!

You have to feel sorry for Gojou. He's been placed in a universe where he'll never win, will never find true happiness, except in subservience to anothers' whims. The manga even says so - Chapter 94. "Wakana, too... As long as he lives, I don't think he'll find satisfaction. So, Marin-chan, please make sure to praise the things that Wakana makes." Hell, even though during the last cosplaying arc with Haniel Gojou was actually into things for his own reasons, the way it got presented - with Gojou on his knees begging Marin for forgiveness for being "selfish" enough to ask her to cosplay as a character she told him she wanted to cosplay as - positions him as a supplicant to Marin.

And taking that line, that this isn't a romcom centered around an ecchi gyaru with a love of cosplay but instead a dramedy about a toxic relationship with that gyaru, actually puts their earlier interactions in a new light. Marin's strongest character trait, from the very beginning, was that she didn't care what other people felt. She didn't care if they thought she was rude, or if she was weird for openly talking about porn, or anything. Remember all that kinda pervy stuff from those early volumes? How uncomfortable Gojou felt every time she gave him stuff to watch or he had to measure her for costumes? Remember how she never cared at all about trying to make him feel more comfortable (or, hell, maybe compromising in the smallest possible way so that he didn't feel that way)? How she didn't care that exposing his skill as a tailor or makeup artist might scare him or alienate him from the class (you might say "she knew it wouldn't result in anything bad - but we NEVER see her reassure him about that! That seems like a great moment of caring and friendship that this manga just... never bothers with)?

Marin never compromises on what she wants. Compromising your desires is for Gojou.

I mentioned Marin being akin to a Manic Pixie Dream Girl; you know the trope. Super-bubbly extroverted "quirky" girl who meets a shy, introverted, inexpressive loner and slowly breaks down his shell with irrepressible energy. It's a common enough male fantasy in media. Except this is more the flipped version of it, the female fantasy. She's a teenager with basically no self-control (she spent thousands of dollars on a DSLR camera because it's model name started with the same letter as her own!), no ability to manage her life (shown by her eating habits), no thought towards social norms or niceties (framed as her being straightforward, but that's not really consistent with her absolute reticence regarding Gojou. A more consistent explanation is that she just doesn't care about offending or discomforting others), and ends up dumping all of the emotional and physical labor of their relationship onto Gojou.

This is coming off as more mean-spirited than I intend. Sure, she's way too nonchalant about how much she asks or expects from her partner. She's 15, though. And an only child. The only real, deep relationship she would have at this point is that to her parents, where she would be the passive recipient of all of their love and attention. That's how she acts in this relationship too; she's more like Gojou's child than his girlfriend. Of course she doesn't have the emotional maturity to actually give equally to a partner. And no one would expect her to. I'm not making a value judgement of her - just pointing out how unfair this whole situation is to him.

The longer this goes on, frankly, the less I want this romance to continue. Gojou gives so much, so readily, desperate for any scrap of acceptance. He's still mentally that orphan, scared of the world and dependent on a calcified shell to protect him from it. Closed, afraid to reach out and ask for help, to let anyone know that it's too much for him. He deserves someone who'll reach over, who'll tell him it's okay to rely on her for a while, that his needs matter too. A person who can say "we" instead of "I".

Because Marin sure as shit won't.

Hell, at this point I think Non would make a better pairing. At least in this chapter she treats Gojou as someone whose feelings matter and that she has to talk to when they have problems, rather than Marin's fundamentally cowardly and self-centered solution of just walking the fuck away whenever the risk of being vulnerable rears up.

ADDENDUM: So this chapter's ending can kind of be seen as Marin compromising, giving up on her goals to support Gojou. But if that's the case, if that's how it's meant to be perceived, the problem is even worse than I originally thought. Even for teenagers, this is painful to watch. Imagine that this happened to you. Imagine you had a friend who introduced you to a hobby - say, rock climbing or something else you were nervous about doing publically because of self-image issues, and introduced you to a friend group through it, and you've spent a bunch of time and energy with them enjoying this hobby together.

Then you try to introduce your friend to something you're interested in and you're kind of shy about. Maybe you're a high-level esports player trying to go pro and mention how much time it takes to practice your skills. You know, the kind of thing that friends talk about; the situations in their lives and the struggles they're going through. This is the first time you've opened up like this, after like half a year of friendship.

And then that friend, immediately afterwards, straight up ghosts you. That's kind of weird, you think, so you go to their house to see what's up, and that friend, before you can even finish asking about plans to go rock climbing next weekend, says that they never want to go rock climbing with you again. And their excuse is that obviously you care so much about being a professional esports player that you have no time for the hobby they introduced you to.

Do you understand how shocked and hurt and betrayed you'd feel at that moment?

This is not a romance. I'm sorry, it just isn't. Neither of these characters treat the other as a romantic interest. Gojou definitely doesn't see Marin in a romantic light - he doesn't even see her in an erotic way any more! He spent the night at her house, hopped up on aphrodisiac energy drinks, and thought nothing of it. And Marin doesn't even treat Gojou as a friend, let alone a potential boyfriend. She treats him like a simp. Where other girls might have a guy like him saved as "Free Lunch" on their phones, he's "Cheap Costumes". AND HE ALSO MAKES HER LUNCH! The only hint that she sees him as anything greater was her promising herself she would confess to him three arcs and two years ago. And then... nothing.

You’ve overlooked the bread man.

Gojo, in the moment he was asked about making cosplay costumes for Marin was emboldened by her VERY WORDS to opt the fuck out if he didn’t want in. He opted in. He wants to make her happy. I know that can be a foreign concept to some but to completely fabricate this one sided relationship as if Gojo has even remotely hinted at it being a fraction of what you’re talking about is nuts.

We are privy to a lot of their thoughts on things but where in the hell are we getting this spin that Marin is DRAGGING Gojo along here? Who has expressed or implied it? What actions or scenes show Marin willfully talking advantage of Gojo? Which panels express Gojo having second thoughts about making cosplays?

Don’t just dump a wall of text, SHOW YOUR WORK.

P.S. I wasn’t even going to entertain this novel since you mentioned Gojo being a go between for Akira in the present tense which A) no one asked him to do and B) Marin gave two shits about when revealed to her, but I took it in good faith you meant that in the past tense.

 

[ponygobyebye]

Astute criticism, and well founded. I especially like the mention of the genderbent "manic pixie dream girl" trope, that has been this manga to a T from the beginning. People often accuse this series of appealing to the male gaze, some sort of sexist ecchi bait. Fair enough, if you only read surface level and look at the visuals (usually the anime watchers, they're the typical suspects). The series is written by a female author as a sort of wish fulfillment, Gojo being really an ideal man. Competent, stoic, unphased, dedicated and determined. Marin is what the author wished she was in HS, and likely what a lot of girls wish they were. Unreproachable, independent and free spirited. The addition of Romcom elements has fucked up the ecchi cosplay dynamic. I really would like to know what the author thinks they're cooking here. Has this been the intention the whole time? I think there must be some sort of editorial oversight due to the success of the anime.

I was today years old when I learnt the mangaka is female. And the self-insert going from Gojou (cos really, most normal people would NOT want to be in his situation) to Marin makes soooooooo much sense.

Like many others, the drama was getting quite taxing, but this comments section really did shatter the glass on just how toxic (however unintentional) their relationship is.

Okay, first off, this comment makes me wanna try Nagataro, though it's premise always put me off. Secondly, I think your points are quite valid. Their relationship has for the most part been stagnated, and the drama elements are just too sparse and incomplete, with the author basically stalling any major progression for quite a few volumes. And funnily enough, even that stalling was shown more through Marin's pov of feeling blueballed.

Point though is, I am not sure if the current developments are the correct way to deal with it. The series always has been subtle with the drama, and it's always been accompanied by slice of life stuff. Their cosplay getting super-popular out of the blue was a perfect opportunity to really solve some of these issues without any of the somewhat tropey drama being done now. Gojou doesn't get enough credit, enough compensation, or enough of anything really for all his help in Marin's cosplay. His feelings about making cosplay costumes are not given enough attention. The success of this recent cosplay was the perfect trigger for them to start introspection without deviating from the manga's vibe and tone till now. I mean ideally this all should have started ages back, but still.

What we are instead getting is out of place drama, with both the characters randomly starting to avoid each other instead of actually processing everything through normally after the explosion of their cosplay, which had a lot of buildup leading into it

I too started off with the Nagatoro anime and the first episode was super rough. A mate of mine told me "just give it a chance" and it became really good. Now is the perfect time to start the manga, as the last chapter releases today.

 

[Billzilla2000]

You’ve overlooked the bread man.

Gojo, in the moment he was asked about making cosplay costumes for Marin was emboldened by her VERY WORDS to opt the fuck out if he didn’t want in. He opted in. He wants to make her happy. I know that can be a foreign concept to some but to completely fabricate this one sided relationship as if Gojo has even remotely hinted at it being a fraction of what you’re talking about is nuts.

This is where you literally separate the men from the boys in these forums. Those familiar with the actual experience of being in a love-love attraction with another person you find highly desirable understand there doesn't need to be this juvenile quid-pro-quo in a relationship. If I'm with a beautiful person that completes my life with their energy, little things they say and do, then I couldn't care less if the 'scales of who does what for whom' are off-balance. Such a primitive, missing-the-point conceptualization of a relationship (even one that has not yet graduated to physical intimacy) is purely the realm of - let's be honest - the neverlaids and whatever permutation of inshells or angry jilted self-appointed 'alphas'... Whatever they call themselves these days.

 

[Meth0d]

This is where you literally separate the men from the boys in these forums. Those familiar with the actual experience of being in a love-love attraction with another person you find highly desirable understand there doesn't need to be this juvenile quid-pro-quo in a relationship. If I'm with a beautiful person that completes my life with their energy, little things they say and do, then I couldn't care less if the 'scales of who does what for whom' are off-balance. Such a primitive, missing-the-point conceptualization of a relationship (even one that has not yet graduated to physical intimacy) is purely the realm of - let's be honest - the neverlaids and whatever permutation of inshells or angry jilted self-appointed 'alphas'... Whatever they call themselves these days.

And you can guarantee that, from what has been shown up to this point, we are in the realm of a love-love attraction? These characters are teenagers, and at that age I'd been in relationships where I compromised 'the scales of who does what for whom' (Who are you quoting, by the way? Yourself? Genuine question.) for the sake of love. Drawing boundaries and having respect for yourself does not make you an incel, and it's really gross that you would throw that word around over something this trifling. Now, if Wakana Gojo (the character) wants to help her out of his own volition he is well within his rights, but that doesn't change the fact that if these were real people their dynamic is founded on some dodgy ground. I'm not saying that's right or wrong, I'm saying it doesn't change the fact. Ultimately the characters are written to be human, and people aren't perfect. Both people need to grow, but as the story is presented Gojo has done a whole lot for her (and a lot of other people) and has received very little from anyone else. Thats why I hope the author will in some form address this, and we can see a satisfying resolution of the current conflict. But as things stand (and I have my own opinions on the points raised by you and Endominus) all I see in this comment specifically is you drawing a harmful equivalence of hurt people with experience being used and immature douchebags, neither of which have much to do with an unrealistic miscommunication arc in a series that fell tf off.

 

[Meth0d]

You’ve overlooked the bread man.

Gojo, in the moment he was asked about making cosplay costumes for Marin was emboldened by her VERY WORDS to opt the fuck out if he didn’t want in. He opted in. He wants to make her happy. I know that can be a foreign concept to some but to completely fabricate this one sided relationship as if Gojo has even remotely hinted at it being a fraction of what you’re talking about is nuts.

We are privy to a lot of their thoughts on things but where in the hell are we getting this spin that Marin is DRAGGING Gojo along here? Who has expressed or implied it? What actions or scenes show Marin willfully talking advantage of Gojo? Which panels express Gojo having second thoughts about making cosplays?

Don’t just dump a wall of text, SHOW YOUR WORK.

P.S. I wasn’t even going to entertain this novel since you mentioned Gojo being a go between for Akira in the present tense which A) no one asked him to do and B) Marin gave two shits about when revealed to her, but I took it in good faith you meant that in the past tense.

You tell them to show their work when they have direct quotations and chapters embedded in their responses. No shade, but I find that pretty interesting.

 

[Billzilla2000]

And you can guarantee that, from what has been shown up to this point, we are in the realm of a love-love attraction?

Neither you nor I are arbiters of exactly what the actual thoughts of the characters are. We can only interpret. Maybe, after the series is done, we can know for sure, but based on Marin's unfiltered and amazed feelings regarding her own depth of love for Gojou, the implication is pretty obvious. She isn't shy expressing herself - to herself. In that sense, she's a lot like (as I said) your typical manga romcom male MC. Not that I present myself as some kind of manga historian, but I have been reading these things (and been alive) for a lot longer than most folks that frequent this site.

These characters are teenagers, and at that age I'd been in relationships where I compromised 'the scales of who does what for whom' (Who are you quoting, by the way? Yourself? Genuine question.) for the sake of love.

I'm not knowingly quoting anyone but me.

Okay, but are you maintaining that in this context Marin does absolutely nothing whatsoever for Gojou? That is the point I'm taking issue with. I welcome nuanced and thoughtful discussion about her track record beyond that very simplified take, though. And everyone is entitled to their views, of course.

Drawing boundaries and having respect for yourself does not make you an incel, and it's really gross that you would throw that word around over something this trifling. Now, if Wakana Gojo (the character) wants to help her out of his own volition he is well within his rights, but that doesn't change the fact that if these were real people their dynamic is founded on some dodgy ground.

Drawing boundaries and having respect for yourself is fine. I would argue that isn't the same as pounding the pulpit as some others are doing, indicting Marin's motives and actions with such emphatic condemnation. Gojou would, and probably will, claim he went into the arrangement with open eyes and heart and make at least a few of the points I already did (that she drew him out of the depressing emotional and physical isolation to experience life, friends, his own talents, the wondrous and weird world outside complete with Manga Cafes, beaches, Comiket and such) and, in doing that, may come to realize Marin's feelings - and his own - at least with more clarity than before.

I'm not saying that's right or wrong, I'm saying it doesn't change the fact.

But what fact, exactly?

Ultimately the characters are written to be human, and people aren't perfect. Both people need to grow, but as the story is presented Gojo has done a whole lot for her (and a lot of other people) and has received very little from anyone else. Thats why I hope the author will in some form address this, and we can see a satisfying resolution of the current conflict. But as things stand (and I have my own opinions on the points raised by you and Endominus) all I see in this comment specifically is you drawing a harmful equivalence of hurt people with experience being used and immature douchebags, neither of which have much to do with an unrealistic miscommunication arc in a series that fell tf off.

I'd argue that Gojou did more for the others without 'compensation commensurate to his work' (for lack of a more fleshed-out analysis) because of what Marin has done for him, some of it perhaps incidentally - but not all.

I accept your point about conflating immature d-bags and people who've been taken advantage of and concede I could have done a better job differentiating those theoretical critics. I appreciate your thoughtful response.

 

[Endominus]

People were mad because after he put in all that unhealthy obsessive effort for her sake, when he then stood there watching from the sidelines as everyone fawned over her, they didn't think he was happy enough for her.

It kinda sucks that that's just the norm with how people interpret relationships in media. Princess syndrome is a son of a bitch.

Astute criticism, and well founded. I especially like the mention of the genderbent "manic pixie dream girl" trope, that has been this manga to a T from the beginning. People often accuse this series of appealing to the male gaze, some sort of sexist ecchi bait.

I might not have made the connection actually were it not for some anime review channel praising the anime this manga got and some others for "breaking through" as romance-focused series that appealed to male viewers or that subverted the male gaze. I can't recall the name precisely because I prefer to download videos that I think are going to pollute my recommendeds with culture war bullshit. It was interesting to reconsider that in light of my own reexamination of these characters' interactions with each other.

Drama never was the series's strong point, and I totally understand the scepticism. Hopefully the way this goes is that Goujo realises he likes cosplay as much as he likes Hina Dolls, if not more. This esp makes sense since we now know his obsession with Hina dolls was for the most part a coping mechanism to deal with the loss of his parents. Then, he starts to do cosplay stuff with the other girls maybe or something? That's the only way I see this working properly. But will the author allow her fav Marin to "lose" like this? Doubtful

That could be the case, and it would be an interesting to actually explore their relationships with other people in their social circles. It would be nice for Gojou to learn that he can get validation from other people too, and for Marin to maybe get the emotional space and clarity to actually express herself to him. But I'm in agreement that I don't see the mangaka taking that step. Especially because I can definitely imagine a lot of people crying bloody murder that the ship was sinking and accusing the manga of trying to introduce a last-minute relationship switch with another girl.

She isn't shy expressing herself - to herself. In that sense, she's a lot like (as I said) your typical manga romcom male MC. Not that I present myself as some kind of manga historian, but I have been reading these things (and been alive) for a lot longer than most folks that frequent this site.

She acts like a Showa-era MC. As I said, we're now in the Reiwa - we've learned to expect better. And as a side-note, however old you are, slinging mud about people's sex lives when you don't have something substantial to add to the discussion does not befit anyone mature. I have not insulted you by posting my thoughts on this series. You don't need to call people who don't agree with you virgins and incels.

 

[Astroflowershop]

Man, just logged in to say that I was rereading the manga, and realized something.

We're here because Haniel arc is the bad ending version of the school cosplay arc.

Gojo had his self doubt, his panic, and everything else. But Marin reached out to check in on him, even when he was breaking down with everyone watching as he was about to do her makeup. She also gave him credit for the cosplay on stage.

Haniel arc? Nothing. No reaching out, no credit, not even the simple "Gojou-kun, are you okay?" that she asked him in chapter 61 or 62, I don't remember which exactly.

Author is literally giving us a bad ending version of something that HAS happened before. That's why it sucks so much, because by all means it shouldn't have happened, we've been through this before.

 

[madzai]

Author is literally giving us a bad ending version of something that HAS happened before.

Not only about school school ark, BTW. This situation is mirroring Gojo staying the night at Marin home. But that was a comical ark (was it though, in context of current situation), and now it's not.

First of all Marin misunderstood Gojo intent completely. Out of the blue - like she was complaining that Gojo don't see her as a girl at all - and suddenly she decided that he is buying condoms. From 0 to 100 instantly? When she decided not to talk about it and just "get ready". When she just silently suffering without showing it to Gojo, who is completely clueless to the issue, for a good reason, since, it's Marin herself, that made Gojo think their relationship are of friends and cosplay-making (and this didn't change in any way to the last chapter). And in the end, when she thinks "the thing" is near she just chicken out. And now she's just feeling miserable. While doing nothing, breaking her character of straightforward, even pushy person who always prefer to talk about issues on hand.

 

[nidaime]

You tell them to show their work when they have direct quotations and chapters embedded in their responses. No shade, but I find that pretty interesting.

No they did not. At all.

He’s listing his interpretation of events to back his opinions. The one quote he lists he is using it as a bat to beat Marin over the head as if SHE is responsible for a core fucking tenet of Gojo’s personality. Him never being happy has NOTHING to do with cosplay, he’d feel the same with hina dolls! The reading comprehension on these forums is poor.

They have boiled their entire relationship down to who does what for who and that’s total and utter bullshit that has not even been remotely hinted at being a one sided parasitic relationship.

Marin tells Gojo “learn to say no” and asks for help with cosplay >> he says yes, even remembering her words (at no point does Gojo revoke this and as a matter of fact reaffirms MULTIPLE TIMES that he is am active participant and enjoys it immensely)

Gojo cooks for Marin >> this was offered to her willingly and she is not a homeless child (at no point does Gojo complain about this arrangement)

Gojo asks Marin to cosplay for him >> yes because that’s what you do when you want someone to do something for you, you know like Marin did? He cannot assume she would be good with just cosplaying for him directly, although we 100% know she would have in a heartbeat

Look, everyone’s opinion is a valuable as a $3 bill but that post is just over analyzed with no basis in anything besides a very generous reading of events. Painting Marin as selfish after reading how absolutely fucking crushed she was when she realized Gojo pushed himself to the limit to get the first cosplay out due to gross miscommunication requires creative blinders indeed.

She even came by the house to check on him due to his uncle being sick, I mean come the fuck on guys what are we doing?

 

[TanyaV]

It's Gojoever

 

[Konrad2]

Thanks for the scanlation.