Sousou no Frieren - Vol. 4 Ch. 32 - Orden Family

[Ulfhednar]

@TheOneWhoPlays
Seems you misunderstood me. I was speaking about standard German, and only mentioned the northern dialects as an example for dialects that do devoice. Though I've yet to hear any other dialect do that.

@KleinerGruenerKaktus

you've missed the "standarddeutsche" Part.

Not the case. You might want to re-read that sentence - it's about northern Germans pronouncing standard German words (with standardized spelling, I assume) different from everybody else. To put it simpler, it's about northerners not being able to speak properly.

The far southerners (Austria, parts of Bavaria, Switzerland and Südtirol) are the weird ones and outliers

Does your idea of "far south" start at Köln? Because even up there, I've never heard people use final devoicing in regular (standard-German) conversation. Only in the far north (near the coast) and north east (Brandenburg, Berlin).
In fact, many of the central German dialects do the exact opposite, with pronouncing k as g for example. And as you'd expect, some people will do the same in standard German - yet nobody would claim that "Wecker", for example should be pronounced "Wegger".

click the sound button for weg you'll hear a /k/ sound at the end.

Funnily enough, it sounds like a g to me, and completely different from a k or ck. That's what I was referring to before. Perhaps it's a difference in hearing, like Japanese not being able to tell R from L (since they only use a sound that's in-between).
Anyways, I guess I was wrong about the Duden being a reliable authority for German - even just searching for what the Aussprachewörterbuch says on Auslautverhärtung, the first result was duden.de claiming a final "ig" should always be pronounced as "ich". Not only would this conflict with the claim that German always devoices final g to k, it's also obviously wrong. Nobody would think Honig was pronounced Honich, for example.
...Want to bet somebody here will claim that all Germans do pronounce it like that, and just don't notice it?
https://www.duden.de/sprachwissen/sprachratgeber/Zweifelsfalle-bei-der-Aussprache
If even Duden gives conflicting information, I guess it's impossible to find any proven answer.

 

[Kromwulf]

Dang why must Fern be so pretty?

 

[KleinerGruenerKaktus]

@Ulfhednar
I'm just guessing here, but to me it seems you never had anything to do with this stuff.
You're mixing up different phenomena that don't have anything to do with final devoicing, you still get spelling and pronunciation mixed up, you don't quite understand what you're reading, and you think you know better than linguists who are experts at phonetics/phonology.

They aren't making stuff up. You can measure and record which sounds someone produces when they are speaking. For example one way to test whether a sound is pronounced voiced or unvoiced is to put your hand against your voice box. It'll vibrate noticeably when a sound is voiced. So checking whether a speaker uses final devoicing is super easy. Please have a look at the physical process of speaking and how different body parts work together to produce sounds.
The -ig thing is not contradictory at all, as the cluster -ig is it's own special thing. The pronunciation [ˈhoːnɪç] for Honig can and has been just as easily proven by observing what a speaker's body does when they say that word. And it's not a rare or special.
You don't have to rely only on your ears. Which brings us to you, because you are relying only on your ears although you don't even know what you have to look for. And from your faulty observations you conclude that the linguists must be wrong and nobody really knows. How conceited can one be?

 

[Ronanovsky]

Darn I didn't expect to learn some German in this comment section, but I still have no idea which one is acceptable as answer.

 

[DragonRider45]

GOD DAMN!!! She's Gorgeous AF.

 

[chris49ford]

@chieftanin @UnChosen and Kirei Cake thank you for these chapters

 

[chieftanin]

@chris49ford it's my pleasure, kind stranger

 

[lauermeer]

cute cute!

 

[Solipsist]

It's crazy how much this manga feels like a storyboard for an anime.

 

[Roknor]

In this chapter: Mama Frieren pimping out her kids for some quick cash.

 

[Ulfhednar]

Looks like we're taking over this thread. So I'll probably stop after this

@KleinerGruenerKaktus
>Don't rely on what you actually hear, rely on what a few linguist claim you should be hearing
Nice troll. Actually fell for it at first, but answering arguments with insults gave you away. As did this:

one way to test whether a sound is pronounced voiced or unvoiced is to put your hand against your voice box

To bad that this whole discussion was about what's called "final" or "terminal" devoicing, aka turning lenis into fortis. That's not actual devoicing, it's just commonly called that way in English. Something you'd know if you had any in-depth knowledge of the matter, or even just checked Wikipedia ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final-obstruent_devoicing ):

the term devoicing may be misleading, since voice is only an optional feature of German lenis obstruents. By contrast, the German term for the phenomenon, Auslautverhärtung ("final-sound hardening"), refers to fortition rather than devoicing.

Lesen bildet.

The pronunciation [ˈhoːnɪç] for Honig can and has been just as easily proven

At least now, you've shown beyond all doubt that you've either got no clue how German words are actually pronounced, or can't tell the difference between dialect (northern dialects again, btw) and standard German. And yes, "Honig" is a good example for final devoicing - it was written (and probably pronounced) "Honec" or "Honic" in the medieval ages, then softened to "Honig" since. Both in spelling and in Pronunciation.

Not going to bother replying to your assumptions about me, btw. That level of discussion should stay on the chans.

@Ronanovsky

Darn I didn't expect to learn some German in this comment section, but I still have no idea which one is acceptable as answer.

Scientifically, the matter has been pretty much settled since Sütterlin (who I'm sure someone will claim wasn't actually an expert at anything, though he's probably the one linguist every German has heard of at some point):
Final devoicing ("Auslautverhärtung" in German) was common in the medieval ages, and only survived in northern Germany. Almost all scientific studies, Wikipedia (both English and German) and the one recent book on the topic I'm aware of (Variantenwörterbuch des Deutschen) agree, and the few studies that disagreed were all proven to have made either scientific mistakes (such as only testing people from one region of Germany, yet claim their results were true for all regions) or be not reproducible.
As to why some people here disagreed, my best guess is that they assumed the "devoicing" in "final devoicing" has the same meaning as the literal translation ("stimmlos machen"), which isn't the case. Or that they were just trolling.

But for the matter at hand, it's not all that relevant, since we don't know what transcription system the author uses. If it's one that assumes that a final "d" should be written as ト, and "l" as ル rather than ゥ, knowing that he's wrong won't help.

 

[kokeko]

DO YOU THINK A YOUG MAN WHO HAS REACHED ADULTHOOD COULD EVER ATTEND ONE ALONE?
FUCK

 

[Scrabbleman]

Stark's family was such a dick to him, that seeing a different warrior family treat their own kindly really shocked him. There are many paths to strength.

 

[Tearsax]

Mama LOL

 

[Darketower]

I got hooked on this manga because of the introspective journey that Frieren has been on, and her realization that “you don’t know what you’ve got until it’s gone” with regards to Himmel. But these days, I’m all about the slow-burn Fern-Stark love story. The more it unfolds, the more I feel like Fern with Stark is basically Frieren if she’d taken the Himmel route.

Also, I love that holiday image with Chibi-Himmel kissing Frieren on the cheek (and Mama Frieren holding her babies, Fern and Stark).

 

[ThemBo]

thanks for the update!

I loved that they kept calling Feren his mom and no really denied it, lol. Its also pretty sweet to see the relationship between the father to his son as contrasted with his own experences

 

[IaBot]

The Christmas panel is so beautiful, thanks for the chapter

 

[Iroha73]

Great Chapter! The whole group looks really gorgeous. I don't mind it too much but, I still hope there isn't any forced romance in this between Fern and Stark. If there is, it should be done carefully.

 

[AceTheBase]

@Iroha73
Me too, although i hope they just remain as friends or have that sibling relationship. I dont see why they should get together, cant even picture since they are so different

 

[HyoEden]

Loved this chapter, also, Frieren mama 😂