Tatoeba Ore ga, Champion kara Oujo no Himo ni Job Change Shita to Shite - Vol. 2 Ch. 11

[theshet]

Why is this dude trying so hard to get rid of him? Faction power shit?

 

[Empyrial]

Since you plan to fix it, here's a list of other typos that I've seen in this chapter:

2: Geat -> Great
13: beacuse -> because
13: beause -> because
14: pleaseant -> pleasant
27: alot -> a lot

Plus the aforementioned Colloseum -> Colosseum on pages 2, 8 (twice), 9, 29, 32.

Fortunately all just misspellings, there's no issue with the actual language used. Thanks for getting back to this series.

I believe I've corrected everything. Thanks for pointing those out.

 

[Skydaz]

1. Rigging your own match to lose is cheating what the fuck????

2. I hope the other 7 fighters aren't just going to be similar to weekly shounen villains to fight considering the pacing of this manga. I dont want to hear about their exposition if their existence only revolves around him and then disappear just serve no purpose than be a mosquito

3. The current trajectory for this manga is saddening. I have hopes on it still turning around

 

[Wyrm]

One rigged match (rigged for him to lose at that) after years of being the strongest champion and suddenly that ONE match makes him not strong enough?

It's true.
But it's also very human. Even in real life, there are many cases where one mistake overshadows a lifetime of good deeds.
One's public reputation can be very fragile.

 

[Wyrm]

1. Rigging your own match to lose is cheating what the fuck????

Yes, it can be. Rigging the odds, then losing on purpose with an agreement that you still get to pocket some of the gains.
That's not the reason the champion lost that match. He wanted to raise his entertainment value. WWE-style, basically.

But that's likely not what the upset noble meant. I'm quite sure he wants to say that his rigged matches were the ones he won so his strength is not real. Which will be easy enough to debunk. But we'll see that next chapter.

 

[Wyrm]

The MC is getting a little repetitive though. I understand that his strategy is to copy his opponent's style and take it a step further than the original fighter. It does show that he's overwhelmingly better than his challenger at their own style. (Except in the eyes of stupid watchers who don't understand how difficult it is to 1. mimic someone's style with a few minutes of real-time combat and 2. immediately overwhelm the person who specifically trained in this technique for a long time.)
This is particularly pointless once he already copied an opponent's style and is meeting them again.

Although that was useful for building his own strength and repertoire of techniques, I'd like to see him get yet one step further. Mix and match techniques from different styles to target specific weaknesses of his opponent's style. (Or create his own original style based on what he learned from all these different schools he copied. But I don't think that would match his character concept.)

That said, I understand why all these gladiators love to fight him, even as they keep losing. The little princess said it earlier: he's demonstrating what their own styles can become when pushed to their extreme. But, at the same time, he doesn't point out what their weaknesses are. He doesn't show them how they can be completely vulnerable to different schools or weapons. It doesn't help them grow outside of a duel with - basically - a mirror of their own ability.

 

[booterror]

Bruh, you sure are talking a lotta shit about a man in spear range. You sure you wanna run that game with a man who can run yo pockets without opening his eyes?

 

[ddulz]

Whoa that's desperate lmao.

Does MC really have to copycat his opponent, can he be creative or at least use someone else skill other than his opponent? If his fight all like this, it might be boring for a battle manga.

 

[pab101]

Thanks for the chapter.

 

[pab101]

If rigging for your own loss is cheating lmao i really dunno what cheating is anymore

It's still cheating. But usually teams do it for money.

 

[Gudachiz]

It's still cheating. But usually teams do it for money.

he didn't so he didn't exactly cheat, the money he got paid if anything was shit

 

[pab101]

he didn't so he didn't exactly cheat, the money he got paid if anything was shit

Intentionally failing is cheating regardless of whether money is given or not.

 

[Gudachiz]

Intentionally failing is cheating regardless of whether money is given or not.

it isn't, the very meaning of the word cheat contradicts that.
for something to be considered a cheat you need to have gained something from it
, if you don't gain anything from it, you got CHEATED ON
its not you doing the cheating if you literally gain nothing
in this case he literally lost and got people hating on him regardless if he won or lost, he also didn't gain anything monetary, so it's more like the matches were rigged against him and he was used by the organizers. this is why the princess taking him in and making him realize his worth hit stronger for him.



cheat
verb
gerund or present participle: cheating

1. 1.
   act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination.
   "she always cheats at cards"
   
   
2. 2.
   avoid (something undesirable) by luck or skil

 

[Wyrm]

it isn't, the very meaning of the word cheat contradicts that.
for something to be considered a cheat you need to have gained something from it
, if you don't gain anything from it, you got CHEATED ON
its not you doing the cheating if you literally gain nothing
in this case he literally lost and got people hating on him regardless if he won or lost, he also didn't gain anything monetary, so it's more like the matches were rigged against him and he was used by the organizers. this is why the princess taking him in and making him realize his worth hit stronger for him.



cheat
verb
gerund or present participle: cheating

1. 1.
   act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination.
   "she always cheats at cards"
   
   
2. 2.
   avoid (something undesirable) by luck or skil

As I see it, if you're the one acting in order to alter the result, you're cheating.

You can have any of a wide selection of reasons, and this case doesn't involve money but fame. Champion MC cheated with the expectation that he would become more interesting to the public if there was a stain on his record. His invincible copycat style was apparently not popular with the public so he was made to believe that removing the "invincible" part of it would help boost interest.

Of course, that wasn't the problem. The problem was that the public was too stupid to realize how amazing it is to beat someone at his own specialty, even more so when you encounter it for the first time. Plus the prejudice against "jobless". Being invincible was never the issue.

So he did cheat. The fact it failed to bring the expected gain is besides the point.

(You can add many other nuances, but the basic idea is that "gaining an advantage" can take many forms.)

 

[Gudachiz]

As I see it, if you're the one acting in order to alter the result, you're cheating.

You can have any of a wide selection of reasons, and this case doesn't involve money but fame. Champion MC cheated with the expectation that he would become more interesting to the public if there was a stain on his record. His invincible copycat style was apparently not popular with the public so he was made to believe that removing the "invincible" part of it would help boost interest.

Of course, that wasn't the problem. The problem was that the public was too stupid to realize how amazing it is to beat someone at his own specialty, even more so when you encounter it for the first time. Plus the prejudice against "jobless". Being invincible was never the issue.

So he did cheat. The fact it failed to bring the expected gain is besides the point.

(You can add many other nuances, but the basic idea is that "gaining an advantage" can take many forms.)

Did you see what he was doing? MC was lead to believe that losing would help, when it really didn't.
I really don't get how you're trying to justify the actions of the organizers whoe were clearly treating him like shit for being "jobless" and not losing, his living conditions weren't even that of a champion, his face was so unkept too and even during his fights which only later did he find out he enjoyed too(when his living conditions were better) did he realize what disservice to himself he did..

Also the mc wasn't a saint, we know for a fact that the only reason why he was in the arena was to survive since no other place would take a "jobless" like him due to the disdain the profession had. It's also why the princess being there had an even bigger impact since everyone else treated him like shit no matter what he did

Being tricked,manipulated and cheated on by someone literally means you are the victim not the other way around
also the main point of the other dude mentioning it to the princess is more than likely a false assumption that he was "rigging the matches" for himself, this is manga remember and this is a battle manga, its common for people to use the words "he was rigging his fights" as him rigging it to his advantage to win, since the latter being monetary or living well isn't even a reason, if he didn't get the desired result and still did it which we know he did there's no advantage there to even consider it a cheat

 

[Naian]

"Yeah I rigged my latest watch in the colosseum to lose because I was bored of wining against lesser than me, and then I left. What about it?"

 

[Wyrm]

Did you see what he was doing? MC was lead to believe that losing would help, when it really didn't.
(...)
Being tricked,manipulated and cheated on by someone literally means you are the victim not the other way around

It's still cheating if it fails to bring the result you expected.
It's still cheating if you also get cheated.
None of these points changes the fact that he lost on purpose.

Let's say, in poker, that you use a card you hid in your sleeve to get a full house.
Your opponent also uses a hidden card to get a royal flush.
You lose the round, but you still cheated. You got cheated, but you still cheated.

I'm not excusing the organizers, but I don't excuse him either. He let down both himself and his rivals.
Once again, as I mentioned above, the fact that it failed to bring the expected gain is besides the point.

 

[Gudachiz]

It's still cheating if it fails to bring the result you expected.
It's still cheating if you also get cheated.
None of these points changes the fact that he lost on purpose.

Let's say, in poker, that you use a card you hid in your sleeve to get a full house.
Your opponent also uses a hidden card to get a royal flush.
You lose the round, but you still cheated. You got cheated, but you still cheated.

I'm not excusing the organizers, but I don't excuse him either. He let down both himself and his rivals.
Once again, as I mentioned above, the fact that it failed to bring the expected gain is besides the point.

This is going on a loop,
The requirement for a cheater to cheat is GAIN not loss, if someone is manipulated and coerced to lose on purpose making things harder for the person in this case mc that isn't him cheating, its him being manipulated and coerced to lose on purpose
This isn't rocket science, you need to GAIN something to consider something a cheat which is really the simplest way of putting it, also the target audience is SHOUNEN which means the author wouldn't go so far as to expound on the meaning of the word or this twist that you're somehow trying to pull,

but in any event you're literally saying that the VICTIM of MANIPULATION is still cheating despite there being nothing to GAIN on his side of the fence when the VERY DEFINITION OF THE WORD HAS THE GAIN PART as a REQUIREMENT, he CLEARLY GOT CHEATED ON AND WAS MANIPULATED, this is very clear, you can't say he did it for riches or whatever since he wasn't rich, if he actually got rich from that he wouldn't feel too bad the way he is, the impact of the princess coming to his life wouldn't be as strong

You fail to realize that the GAIN IS THE POINT for it to BE A CHEAT, go back and please read the meaning of the word
also even if you use the second meaning which is to avoid something undesirable by luck or skill, it wouldn't fly either since he didn't avoid the undersirable thing it was still to his detriment
congratulations not one of the words say that "it doesn't matter if one didn't gain something or not" that's trying to make your own definition of a clearly defined word in the dictionary


this is literally what you're saying so despite mc not
1. gaining anything
in this case neither money, respect, prestige, a better life or what have you

2. not avoiding any undesirable outcomes
people hating him, people treating him like shit, him being miserable, him losing respect for himself
you're still arguing that the clear victim of the whole back story CHEATED do you realize how stupid that is? The word was already defined by the goddamn dictionary and you're coming up with your own meaning out of nowhere trying to make it make sense when it clearly doesn't

 

[Wyrm]

This is going on a loop...

Yes, we'll continue to disagree.

For me, cheating is breaking the rules with an expectation of gain.
So, if you broke the rules, you have cheated regardless of the outcome. You might or might not have obtained what you expected, but you broke the rule either way.

For you, cheating is obtaining something by breaking the rules.
So, if you obtained nothing, you haven't cheated.

I find your definition very flawed, and game or sport arbiters will disagree with you. Because your motivation will not matter to them, only the fact that you broke the rules. (This goes for most laws too. Attempting a crime can still get you charged and convicted even if you fail.)

But we can stop this discussion because I can't see how I can convince you at this point.
I hope for you that you never have to defend yourself from accusations of cheating with such a poor excuse.

 

[Gudachiz]

Yes, we'll continue to disagree.

For me, cheating is breaking the rules with an expectation of gain.
So, if you broke the rules, you have cheated regardless of the outcome. You might or might not have obtained what you expected, but you broke the rule either way.

For you, cheating is obtaining something by breaking the rules.
So, if you obtained nothing, you haven't cheated.

I find your definition very flawed, and game or sport arbiters will disagree with you. Because your motivation will not matter to them, only the fact that you broke the rules. (This goes for most laws too. Attempting a crime can still get you charged and convicted even if you fail.)

But we can stop this discussion because I can't see how I can convince you at this point.
I hope for you that you never have to defend yourself from accusations of cheating with such a poor excuse.

Pretty sure even if you take it into court the legal argument would be "what is the motive for cheating?" in this case you can't really say any motive, motive is important, if it turns out the motive is something that will be detrimental to the person wouldn't the courts see that as a manipulated victim then?

In this case he also didn't really break the rule since the organizers themselves told him to lose on purpose, bribery can't be used, he wasn't bribed, promises of fame can't be used, he was hated regardless of what he did, BECAUSE OF HIS CLASS that was the whole point of it all, he knew that the audience would hate him no matter what because of class, his hope was for one person to acknowledge his strength but that didn't arrive until the princess saved him from his sorry state

An example of a clear cut case of jail time rule break is if you're bribed to lose, see in fights like the boxing ring you're still getting your pay out in a large sum, he didn't.
also even if we go by your definition, what was there to gain for him? what did he EXPECT TO GAIN? when he knew he would gain NOTHING hence the face

I am very sure that whatever "expectations" of gain he had, were shattered the moment he stepped into the ring, saw that his loss literally did nothing for his cause or case, people didn't like him more, people didn't praise him more, they saw that he finally lost but not like he gained anything either way
so i don't know what you are really on about, the organizers didn't respect him any more, that's why the princess saw him in such a sorry state, if he had ANY expectations after the first loss, then I really doubt he would be in the state we found him as readers