Tensei Shitara Ken Deshita - Ch. 81 - Greed

[goro-goro]

The Ancestor in darkest dungeon opening a portal from the horror beyond just because curiosity are more less-pointless than whatever the bad guy just monolouguing there

 

[flannan]

I disagree. We remember far more heroic myths than villainous ones.

If I were to name the one [villain] most known in the world right now, I would pick a certain rejected painter. That guy existed barely a single generation or 2 ago (using proper generations where someone must have lived out a lifespan, and not the real definitions for the word), super recent.
If I were to think about the oldest ones I can think of, I probably get quite a few still, like trickster-gods or assholes like zeus. But even those are just ancillary to the actual heroes (illead, herakles, etc), or at the very least just one among many (as loki is to the rest of that pantheon). And arguably those myths aren't even about villains, but merely powerful assholes.

Returning to actual heinous villains (and not just mean-spirited gods that aren't actually performing evil en-masse so much as just causing a tiny localized tragedy), I can only think of some inbred royalties merely hundreds of years ago. Beyond that I am drawing blanks.

So no, when it comes to being remembered through prosperity, the "good" guys are in a clear majority. Even if only because the story is through their own eyes (or someone near them) while what actually makes it noteworthy enough to have been remembered was their sheer power/feats (aka the story & storytelling).

Most likely, the oldest outright villain we can remember is Herostratus. Remembered for burning down Library of Alexandria. His thought pattern was exactly like that of Zelize.
There is also that merchant from ancient Babylon who sold really shitty copper.

But far more people know who Archimedes is. Because he is forever part of school lessons. Heracles and Odysseus are more famous than Herostratus too, and we aren't even sure they were real.

i can think of someone that meets our current understanding of the concept of Villain and is significantly less contemporary then the Angry Mustache Model: Vlad Tepes III, aka Dracula.

And he wasn't a villain. Just a brave rebel who fought against imperial assaults of his homeland. But the Westerners cannot accept a Slav fighting for his freedom. So they used their propaganda machine to turn him into a vampire.

 

[flannan]

Can a LN reader please spoil for me how long until this arc is over with?

Spoiler: minor spoiler for this arc

After this fight, there is going to be the climatic fight with this arc's boss. Probably worth at least 4 chapters. And 1 more chapter for the aftermath, I guess. And that would be the end of the arc.
This night is the biggest fight I have seen in this novel, and things should be less dramatic for several LN volumes.

Fran was also discriminated against and persecuted, but look at how she grew. A far cry from this villainous scum.

More like, she is cute, so she gets away with torturing random criminals for information. And would have got away with murdering that noble everybody hated, if guild master didn't manage to save him in the nick of time.

Feels like they’re speedrunning his tragic villain backstory because they’re going to kill him soon

Spoiler: minor spoiler for this arc

No.

 

[Kakadu47]

Thank you for translating this chapter.

Whatever the evil villain says or does, the answer is always to cut in half all problems. With a sword.

 

[feha]

Senator Armstrong Funny Valentine Claude Frolo Vergil

What?

Also just say Hitler :l

It is more funny to refer to him by traits everyone knows.

 

[feha]

Most likely, the oldest outright villain we can remember is Herostratus. Remembered for burning down Library of Alexandria. His thought pattern was exactly like that of Zelize.
There is also that merchant from ancient Babylon who sold really shitty copper.

NGL, I have no idea who herostratus is (though I know of the burning of alexandria). I get that you mean that it is the oldest villain with proper records (or stories, if it is a fictional char) which is honestly an interesting subject too (so thanks for the info), but in this chapter it was more about what people remember (as in what is taught to everyone as children), rather than what there are records of (or the 3 heroes he mentioned would not be considered forgotten by him).

But far more people know who Archimedes is. Because he is forever part of school lessons. Heracles and Odysseus are more famous than Herostratus too, and we aren't even sure they were real.

Maybe I should have read entire comment before I replied I see that you seem to have constructed the flow to prove the point that oldest villains are forgotten (even when the action is remembered), while the "heroes" (at least in math and physics) are remembered eternally, even by name.
Unless you were saying archimedes was a villain?

And he wasn't a villain. Just a brave rebel who fought against imperial assaults of his homeland. But the Westerners cannot accept a Slav fighting for his freedom. So they used their propaganda machine to turn him into a vampire.

The vampire stuff was invented centuries later, and not the propaganda machine but just a singular author. I think?
But I was including fictional villains and heroes, so that is why I counted the impaler as one (because yes, it was his enemies he impaled, afaik. not his allies.)

 

[flannan]

NGL, I have no idea who herostratus is (though I know of the burning of alexandria). I get that you mean that it is the oldest villain with proper records (or stories, if it is a fictional char) which is honestly an interesting subject too (so thanks for the info), but in this chapter it was more about what people remember (as in what is taught to everyone as children), rather than what there are records of (or the 3 heroes he mentioned would not be considered forgotten by him).

I mean, these two are the villains I could recall from memory, and I only needed to check if I wrote herostratus' name correctly (because I only know Russian transliteration of his name).

Unless you were saying archimedes was a villain?

No. I mean that no amount of martial heroism is comparable to the fame of a scientist who became the foundation of modern life. No matter how evil Hitler was, he'll never be as well-known as Volt.
And Zelise, as an alchemist, had all the chances of getting this kind of fame.

 

[CraniumAmbiguity]

 

[onipuck]

And here we have an example on how to overcome that troublesome high defense problem.
Just hit it really REALLY hard.

 

[GreC_89]

Well there's a bugger who you should always purposely misremember his name.

I say he should be forgotten. Completely.

best fate to give him is to erase hes name and only talk about those who stopped him and those who died because of him

imma write zelis name wrong on purpose to make him irritated lmao. and i'll definitely forget him when our MC defeat him and found a new villain-of-the-arc

I have the right tool for the job

 

[Anothis]

i can think of someone that meets our current understanding of the concept of Villain and is significantly less contemporary then the Angry Mustache Model: Vlad Tepes III, aka Dracula.

Vlad is a Hero not a Villian. Sure he did terror tactics but to the people of Wallachia he is 100% a national hero.

Bram Stoker's book has very little to actually do with the actual historical figure and we shouldn't conflate fictional works by an author with the real person.

 

[Anothis]

Isn't that just Chinese SOP?

CCP ya.

 

[toapat]

Vlad is a Hero not a Villian. Sure he did terror tactics but to the people of Wallachia he is 100% a national hero.

Bram Stoker's book has very little to actually do with the actual historical figure and we shouldn't conflate fictional works by an author with the real person.

i can understand those facts and still recognize even with the obligation of defending the nation Vlad was extreme. Hell, i made one of the national leaders in a group worldbuilding process essentially Vlad Tepes III as God Emperor of Mankind turned into a magical girl, and shes pretty much the only sovereign of a "Good" nation in the setting, everyone else either being at best a good person at the head of a mad society, tyrannical imperialists, or insane

 

[Hounder]

I disagree. We remember far more heroic myths than villainous ones.

If I were to name the one [villain] most known in the world right now, I would pick a certain rejected painter. That guy existed barely a single generation or 2 ago (using proper generations where someone must have lived out a lifespan, and not the real definitions for the word), super recent.
If I were to think about the oldest ones I can think of, I probably get quite a few still, like trickster-gods or assholes like zeus. But even those are just ancillary to the actual heroes (illead, herakles, etc), or at the very least just one among many (as loki is to the rest of that pantheon). And arguably those myths aren't even about villains, but merely powerful assholes.

Returning to actual heinous villains (and not just mean-spirited gods that aren't actually performing evil en-masse so much as just causing a tiny localized tragedy), I can only think of some inbred royalties merely hundreds of years ago. Beyond that I am drawing blanks.

So no, when it comes to being remembered through prosperity, the "good" guys are in a clear majority. Even if only because the story is through their own eyes (or someone near them) while what actually makes it noteworthy enough to have been remembered was their sheer power/feats (aka the story & storytelling).

Not to worry, we got another one in the making right here in the US. An orange-skinned guy with a unique hair-style.