The Politics Megathread

[M0NST3R]

@wowfucktron and @Tamerlane, if you haven't read the essays written by Mussolini and Gibraldi(?) then that may help to make my point a bit more clear, I'm not gonna sit here and claim to necessarily effectively communicate it in full as I'm not great at putting my line of thought into words.

Fascism is an extension of Marxist though and inherently collectivist by nature, hence my argument that fascism and socialism aren't necessarily opposite ends. Both on an economic perspective tend to be allies more than enemies. It tends to be on societal grounds that you tend to have the division pop up. If anything I would argue fascists are disaffected socialists.

 

[Tamerlane]

I think we all agree on that to varying degrees, though I'd argue different strains of Fascism probably are more left or right of one another because Fascism is primarily concerned about authority above all. @M0NST3R

 

[wowfucktron]

@tamerlane
“Wuh, what do you mean facism isn’t whatever the Republicans do?” /s

Spoiler

Apple’s autocorrect autocorrected fascism to racism after I typed Republicans, hmmmmm...

Facism is weird. It’s a hybrid version of socialism and militant authoritarianism utilized not for the public good but for national self interest.

Socialism isn’t a good system, it does nothing but spread over dependence on the government. It assumes there is no such thing as a correlation between inflation and population growth and spits in the face of basic economics.

Facism understands that there is no such thing as infinite resources, but it goes about resource acquisition via forceful seizure.

You’d think the people who demonize fascism would actually love it as it does nothing but involve power projection and corporate punishment.

And yes just like you said, it’s like every other utopian, overly idealistic ideology that only works in theory.

Honestly if I could find a way to label my dream ideology without using the words indirect, elective, and monarchy, I’m ninety nine percent positive it would be widely popular.

 

[Tamerlane]

@wowfucktron

What's even more notable is that fascism is not synonymous with Nazism, which people often confuse. Franco and Mussolini were less concerned with ethnicity and more concerned with their national supremacy, whereas the Nazi ideology specifically blamed ethnic groups. It's not much better, but it's surprisingly that unlike normal rhetoric, the Fascists aren't unified under that umbrella

It's still despotic and terrible, though

 

[wowfucktron]

@tamerlane

What's even more notable is that fascism is not synonymous with Nazism, which people often confuse

I think I said it a few pages back, but the Nazis were/are the ultimate propaganda machine for the US.

No one really cared or even knew about the Nazis domestically (outside of American Nazi Party members, Henry Ford et al.) until our supply boats were hit, then the American propaganda machine went on overdrive.

Over eighty years later, that propaganda machine is still paying dividends. Soft radicalizing Americans for generations into believing we are peace keepers who love freedom.

And the larping neos are used as a bastardized parody of the Black Panthers because it’s easier to anonymously radicalize/inflame socially disaffected young white men online than it is to convince black federal agents to radicalize other blacks into becoming terrorists.

It’s ironic and sad that Americans demonize one thing but ignore, most likely willingly, another.

 

[Denrick19]

@wowfucktron

Why do you (and everyone) think I was arguing for communism? I was arguing that wanting to die than have to live in a communist country is dumb.

>he doesn’t know that communism needs walls to keep people in

it depends on the time period, you could be in early communist Russia where they 100% didn't have walls covering the borders, then you could just simply, leave. Now if I had more to work with then " I would rather die then blah blah blah" then you might have had a point here.

Look, I'm nothing close to a fascist but I would definitely rather live through fascism than die trying to fight it. You only have one life and I sure haven't lived it enough yet. And there's a lot of things you can do alive during fascism to help people affected by it then you can dead trying to fight it.

Now when it comes to communism I'm actually open to trying it out, might be pretty cool who knows. Probably won't even put in much effort against it to be honest if I'm not negatively affected by it, and if I am it's time to run.

 

[Tamerlane]

@Denrick19

In my defense, I didn't really say that you were, as much as I was pointing out the argument the message was laying out, though we're probably both reading too deeply into it

@wowfucktron

When I was volunteering for the Holocaust museum ran by a local survivor, she always stressed the importance of forgiveness and reform, and that to hold all this hatred and contempt for the Nazis only gave them more power. I think she saw the demonization and dehumanization of the Jews when she was growing up, and she saw first hand where that lead to, and so tried to embody the antithesis of those values.

In many ways, I fear that modern politics is starting to look like the start of the rise of Nazi Germany, with the storming of the Capitol seeming like the burning of Reichstag in that it is surrounded by misinformation and facilitaties many power grabs, stripping on human rights, and systematic processes meant to disenfranchise everyone who wants reform or change in the system. What makes me concerned is not only polarization and the fact people view the other side as less than human because of some perceived moral repugnancy, but the actions being taken because of it, which seems to be setting up similar scenearios and patterns that have been echoed before.

 

[EOTFOFYL]

@Denrick19
The rise and fall of the Soviet Union is rather fascinating; You have a third rate power rapidly transform into a modern state, then overtaking its neighbors and becoming a super power.

 

[wowfucktron]

@tamerlane

I fear that modern politics is starting to look like the start of the rise of Nazi Germany

I'm glad I'm not the only one noticing the beginnings of a disturbing parallel.

@denrick19
If you want to try communism for a few months, move to one of Berlin's many occupied apartment complexes in the art district or, if your Jewish, one of Israel's Kibbutzim. You work nonstop while everyone else freeloads while the entire thing is kept afloat by a hedge fund manager's kid.

Bernie Sanders was kicked out an American communist commune because he didn't want to do anything beyond freeloading.

If you want to try it without moving, donate all of your money and future paychecks to a charity without saving any for yourself and then only acquire food from food banks. Don't worry about rent, think of being homeless as a metaphor for not having a functional country.

 

[Teddy]

@richman
Never heard of the term before. I initally thought it was literally robotic overlords til I googled it.

My question is why don't we have twchnocracy as a standard? Particularly for Ministers of theirs specifc areas. Like Minister of Health should be require to be a doctor with decades of experience or a an architect for minister of infrastructure

 

[wowfucktron]

@Teddy
Technocracy has a lot of flaws.

Mainly who designs said AI system (corporations or government), will lawmakers understand how said AI system works (lawyers, doctors, and scholars sure as hell won't), will it be immune to hacking (answer: no, it won't), what happens if it makes counterproductive decisions only a machine would enact (think population control)?

It's also over reliant on a strong control over flow of information heavily utilizing mass censorship, you can argue we're already under technocracy to a degree.

 

[EOTFOFYL]

@Teddy
The last guy who ran the FCC (Ajit Pai) worked for telecomm company as a lawyer or whatever shit. Fuckwit repealed net neutrality then tried to look cute on camera with his dumb-ass mug.

Fuck A-Shit Hat, thank god he's gone now.

 

[pandascepter]

@EOTFOFYL
you're out of character. Calm down, there'll be a @duck with you.

 

[hazzack]

@panda oh come on dude, i deliberately avoided this place. shits makes me evil. don't just ping me here out of no reason.

 

[pandascepter]

@duck you need to make EOTFOFYL to calm down..... he needs some help. Its your mission to destroy it. You have to become the purest duck.

 

[EOTFOFYL]

Few hours later (NSFD):

Spoiler

 

[Tamerlane]

Every day, we edge closer to this Rush song, which may or may not be the left wing version of Ayn Rand's Anthem.

 

[2SpiritCherokeePrincess]

Turtle Island (later mistakenly called America): a communist land until 1492.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primitive_communism

Do walls have something to do with communism? Then I guess Trump is a communist & Biden is an anti-communist. https://www.opb.org/article/2021/01/21/president-joe-biden-executive-orders-trump-border-wall/

@EOTFOFYL (Seeing picture) Ajit Pai looks like a heavy drinker.

It's so funny when right wing propaganda mills accuse the real media of being biased. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoZnHYuROXs

 

[wewuz]

Durrrrr blame Russian bots and Huawei for all your problems. Incredibly immature. In China a large part of the economy is still state controlled. Private companies often have to compete with state owned ones.

 

[wewuz]

I bet Iraq thoroughly enjoyed getting its infrastructure bombed to pre-industrial levels. Not to mention the devastation of Iraq's middle class after the 2003 invasion.