The Politics Megathread

[Mielly]

@readingsit

global GDP is a good way of recognizing how much better off humanity is as time moves on since it its the average of all human wealth

Just stumbled upon this thread and I'm happy to give you the monthly award of the stupidest statement. Not only did you boldly show everyone you have no idea what you're talking about, considering that GDP measures a flux and wealth is a stock. But you also gifted us with one of the most insanely idiotic mouthpieces we could ever hope to hear, as in even an mildly clever highschooler could tell you that GDP accounts for a lot of activities that are net negatives to human life, and that all the GDPs and wealth still don't change anything to the suffering caused by poverty worldwide. Congratulations!
PS: I know you didn't expect anyone here to catch you in your little act, but turns out you can both read Baki and economics studies.

 

[wowfucktron]

@mielly

Just stumbled upon this thread and I'm happy to give you the monthly award of the stupidest statement. Not only did you boldly show everyone you have no idea what you're talking about, considering that GDP measures a flux and wealth is a stock. But you also gifted us with one of the most insanely idiotic mouthpieces we could ever hope to hear, as in even an mildly clever highschooler could tell you that GDP accounts for a lot of activities that are net negatives to human life, and that all the GDPs and wealth still don't change anything to the suffering caused by poverty worldwide. Congratulations!
PS: I know you didn't expect anyone here to catch you in your little act, but turns out you can both read Baki and economics studies.

t. Communist "intellectual"

 

[M0NST3R]

@readingsit
Lol it's fine, though I feel like that would require a mute function to be something people can use. I'm sure there are lots of times where people just don't want their notifications blown up.
Kaldrak would probably be first in line to ask for that as I'm fairly certain at least five different people were tagging them at one time.

 

[readingsit]

@Mielly
listen im not an economist so ill just list what a website of economists say about it

Gross domestic product tracks the health of a country's economy.

so if the worlds GDP goes up then the worlds economy is healthier

It represents the value of all goods and services produced over a specific time period within a country's borders.

so if it goes up on a worlds-wide scale then the entire world is producing better value goods

all the GDPs and wealth still don't change anything to the suffering caused by poverty worldwide

worldwide? no. in the places that cause this shift in worldwide GDP? yes. the poorest person in a free-market capitalist nation lives like a king compared to the poorest person in a controlled market socialist nation

 

[Mielly]

@wowfucktron
Take a hike waifushit, if you can't argue economic theory I'd rather not get any useless notification.
@readingsit
The quotes are indeed correct, but you're wrong on the conclusions you draw. An increase in GDP could indeed mean production of more good of better value, but not always, due to how GDP is counted. War increases GDP, rebuilding after a war increases GDP, and so on. See the picture ? I don't mean to sound patronizing or just "own" you for the lulz since you admitted you didn't study econ. If you're curious about learning it yourself, especially if you're from a technical background, I'd advise you to start with Steve Keen's Debunking Economics. Hope posting a link isn't bannable: http://digamo.free.fr/keen2011.pdf .
Otherwise, I'll just tell you to read up on the times when the US actually had a free market capitalism-based society: the robber-barons era. A whole lot of wealth, but so little prosperity.

 

[M0NST3R]

@Mielly If you have any other ones you would recommend I would go ahead and list them but I've seen some concerning stuff said about Steve Keen. There a way you would recommend reading his book or just read it normally?

 

[readingsit]

@Mielly

times when the US actually had a free market capitalism-based society

capitalism is a tool just like any other. just like how a saw can be use to make a chair or to administer aid it can be used to destroy and maim.
robber-barons era may be a time where capitalism was the latter. however to try and claim that america isnt "a free market capitalism-based society" holds no bases in reality

free market- an economic system in which prices are determined by unrestricted competition between privately owned businesses.

based off what i looked up the only controlled prices in the USA are
the 'Granger Laws' of Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, and Illinois all of which controlled railroad and grain elevator prices. the railroad industry is dying everywhere so i wont blame them in specific but i doubt it helped
and California controls the prices of electricity which genius economist Thomas Sowell has blamed for the electrical outages they always seem to face

capitalism- an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state.

correct me if im wrong but the the only industries that the US government owns is:
education(as a person that has seen both the private and public versions i can cay confidently private is better even if expensive)
and mail(USPS isnt great, if you want mail faster and/or safer then people use somthing else for good reason)

if you engage in business that isnt involved in the above then it works under free market capitalism

as for Steve Keen he doesnt really seem to be a reliable source for economic ideas. if i got more into economics id probably look more into Friedrich Hayek or Thomas Sowell

 

[M0NST3R]

@readingsit

Don't forget there is technically a control on onions. It's illegal to trade onion futures in the market.
Plus rent control, which does exist in several areas still.

List of federally owned enterprises
Commodity Credit Corporation (CCC)[1]
Corporation for National and Community Service (AmeriCorps)
Corporation for Public Broadcasting
Export-Import Bank of the United States[2]
Federal Agricultural Mortgage Corporation[3]
Farm Credit Banks[4]
Federal Crop Insurance Corporation (FCIC)
Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC)
Federal Financing Bank (FFB)[5]
Federal Home Loan Banks[6]
Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation (Freddie Mac)
Federal National Mortgage Association (Fannie Mae)
Federal Prison Industries (UNICOR)[7]
The Financing Corporation[8]
Gallaudet University[9]
Government National Mortgage Association (Ginnie Mae)[10]
Legal Services Corporation[11]
Millennium Challenge Corporation (MCC)
National Cooperative Bank[12]
National Corporation for Housing Partnerships (NCHP); Washington, D.C.
National Credit Union Administration Central Liquidity Facility (CLF)
National Endowment for Democracy[13]
National Fish and Wildlife Foundation (NFWF)[14]
National Park Foundation[15]
National Railroad Passenger Corporation (Amtrak)
Neighborhood Reinvestment Corporation[16]
Overseas Private Investment Corporation
Pennsylvania Avenue Development Corporation; Washington, D.C.
Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation
St. Lawrence Seaway Development Corporation
Securities Investor Protection Corporation[17]
Tennessee Valley Authority
YRC Worldwide [18]
USPS

 

[Mielly]

@M0NST3R
You can read Debunking Economics pretty normally from start to end. It's a bit technical for a newbie, but it's well paced, with the first chapters debriefing what the 2008 crisis and who did and didn't see it coming. Then it explains the base tenets of neoclassical economics along with the epistemic problems they exhibit, and after that there's a nice opening about the "heterodox" currents of economics. It's all in all a great introduction if you're the scientific type. His specialist work, like Minsky's models, is a lot less easy to study.
@readingsit

genius economist Thomas Sowell

My jaw and stomach still hurt from the burst of laughter you gave me, thanks. On a more serious note you seem more concerned with confirming your biaises than learning anything, so I won't bother much further than this: Sowell is a complete idiot who hasn't ever published anything significant from a scientific standpoint. He's just a lazy propagandist and an all-around paid clown who will happily reverse facts and rewrite history to suit his dumb mouthpiece. There's a reason this piece of trash never accepted any serious peer discussion. Hayek, although obsolete, had a few good leads and was decent for his time.
Meanwhile Keen, among others like Roubini, accurately modeled, predicted and explained the 2008 financial crisis as early as 2005, while Sowell . As someone with a scientific academic background I prefer to judge scientists on the merit of their theory, but it seems that just isn't your main criteria.

 

[Mielly]

Oh by the way, I don't mean to bully readingsit any further for his ignorance, but I just wanted to use his mention of California's energy problems to warmly recommend a documentary about it: "Enron: the smartest guys in the room". It has everything you want: a well-researched telling of the origins of the deregulation of the energy sector, crazy Wolf of Wall Street shenanigans, and even Arnold Schwarzenegger !

 

[readingsit]

@M0NST3R
thank you i was looking for a list but all i kept getting was businesses owned by politicians

@Mielly
as a person who isnt an economist when it comes to questions of the economy i go to people who are able to explain things in ways i think makes sense. when i want to live to eat another day i save up my money so when i hear concepts from Keynesian economics of spending oneself out of crisis i find it idiotic. so the guy that argues against him is more attractive i.e. Hayek. and on a similar vain when everyone i consider credible says that Thomas Sowell is a genius economist i have to take them at their word for i am not an economist.

you on the other hand have not been able to go a sentence without flinging insults or writing as if your the end-all be-all of economic thought. so forgive me if i do not put you in a category of credible source.

 

[M0NST3R]

@Mielly

My jaw and stomach still hurt from the burst of laughter you gave me, thanks.

Oh by the way, I don't mean to bully readingsit any further for his ignorance,

Talking like this doesn't make you look smart or like you are interested in friendly discussion. Keep it civil.

 

[Tamerlane]

Even though I'm really far behind because I slept away the time I was meant to get caught up, my Thomas Sowell sense is tingling and I sense strawmen abrewin'!

Also I still identify myself as someone on the left, as an FYI @Immortalartisan

At least, the 90s to late 200s left-winger, with a little bit of hippie and Jimi Hendrix-style individualism mixed in there. I generally lean left in terms of social and cultural issues, or at least, I did before that was retroactively deemed not enough

 

[wowfucktron]

@mielly

if you can't argue economic theory

t. Reddit Communist “intellectual”

 

[EOTFOFYL]

The true answer lies in the Norse school of economics!

 

[Teddy]

With the transgender and transracial idea. Can someone be Transjeffbezos thus be treated as Jeff besos and possess all of their stuff? Like I assume there isn't a precedent. There might be identy theft charges...but what if you really believe and identify with a celebrity per say? What would the legal ramifications be I wonder?

 

[immortalartisan]

I’m pretty sure the most genuinely believing your someonelse could get you is maybe a reduced sentance for identity theft as in any legal precedent has shown in the pass no intent to harm is still not enough to avoid charges.

 

[Hornyturtle]

The rules aren't written to screw over the ones in control. @teddy.

 

[Tamerlane]

@Hornyturtle

Taoism has taught me seeking interpersonal power dynamics between average people is probably something that can only result in misery. Taoism raises the point that in order to be within the natural ebb and flow of the natural world, that you have to be able to let go of things like concern over how you look to your peers or how much concern you have over what they think, but instead to live your own life in concordance with the Tao, and embracing change as it comes, knowing that things like power and wealth are always temporary and liable to change

When someone asks you to respect them or their identity, it is an exercise of power based on good faith that you would want to be treated the same, but that charity can be taken advantage of by bad actors seeking to spread their ideology by believing themselves to be marginalized, and so will, in their view, tip the scale in their favor. But the issue with human nature is you always want more and to see how far you can push before you’ve pushed too far. That’s why I know when and where to draw the line based on my principles.

@wowfucktron

Imagine shitting on Thomas Sowell after telling everyone to know economic theory when he literally wrote the book on Basic Economics. He’s probably one of the most influential economists of the past half century for his ability to explain Economic principles alone.

 

[wowfucktron]

@tamerlane
History has proven time and time again that when you give an inch, they will absolutely take a mile.

If you give a mouse a cookie, so to speak.

>bad actors relying on emotional arguments
It’s always safe to assume that anyone relying on emotional reasoning only has themselves in mind when it comes to their own agenda.