The Rising of the Shield Hero - Vol. 25 Ch. 101 - Yggdrasil Elixir

[Eighty-six]

An example is a scene where Rap in the LN killed a dude, while in the anime the killing is done by Naofumi,

Raphtalia's previous owner? In the anime (season 1, ep.15), Naofumi had her reconsider her original intent to kill him by asking if killing him would give her closure. She relents while declaring that her killing him would make her no better than him, the slaver tries to attack Raphtalia, Raphtalia hits the guy with her spirit sword in self defense, he backs away, trips over his whip, and falls through the window to his death. Naofumi has nothing to do with that entire sequence beyond him chiming in to focus Raphtalia.

there are also missing changes so the whole story have a less emotional impact. This is surely done to not offend the western audience and decrease the rating.

There are several reasons why details are dropped or altered in an adaptation, that have nothing to do with censorship for the sake of a peripheral audience like the American one (that won't even buy the Blu-Rays or other merch).

Same with Goblin Slayer anime, is watered down in violence, scenes are missing and there are warnings that people can find it offensive, this is what i mean by watering down content, another word is censorship

If you're talking about the censorship of violence, that's certainly done because of Japanese television standards. Anyhow, studios regularly issue uncensored episodes in their Blu-Rays, which is what is worked with by default when they're licensed and localized stateside. In the first place, this story is presumably marketed towards older teens and young adults (this manga, in particular, runs in a seinen magazine).

Americans are less squeamish about raw violence than they are of sex or things like slavery. In fact, if there was any consideration of American audiences, they would have retained Raphtalia directly killing her former owner instead of diffusing responsibility on other circumstances like his clumsiness and the whip he dropped (which is still vaguely karmic).

anime of both Shield Hero and GS are censored. Censorship is created for this purpose, for a global audience, changing the source material to be more palatable, less violent, otherwise there is no need to do so if the target is only the fanbase.

When you say "global", do you just mean "wider"? As in, "beyond the confines of the fanbase formed prior to the anime adaptation"?

 

[Nick86]

Raphtalia's previous owner? In the anime (season 1, ep.15), Naofumi had her reconsider her original intent to kill him by asking if killing him would give her closure. She relents while declaring that her killing him would make her no better than him, the slaver tries to attack Raphtalia, Raphtalia hits the guy with her spirit sword in self defense, he backs away, trips over his whip, and falls through the window to his death. Naofumi has nothing to do with that entire sequence beyond him chiming in to focus Raphtalia.

There are other examples, i do not bother to post here and i do not have the time to do so, read synopsys on reddit in the light novel sub-section regarding the differences with the anime adaption.

There are several reasons why details are dropped or altered in an adaptation, that have nothing to do with censorship for the sake of a peripheral audience like the American one (that won't even buy the Blu-Rays or other merch).

You can indeed remove some useless dialogues but not scenes important to the story or make them less important or altering them to feel better confortable. This is what i call watered down content or censorhip.

If you're talking about the censorship of violence, that's certainly done because of Japanese television standards. Anyhow, studios regularly issue uncensored episodes in their Blu-Rays, which is what is worked with by default when they're licensed and localized stateside. In the first place, this story is presumably marketed towards older teens and young adults (this manga, in particular, runs in a seinen magazine).

This is a reason indeed, tv standards, but also to appeal to a global audience, in the past when anime were less known, censorship were much less too, with full violence, nudes on tv too and much less global propaganda. This is a fact that anime nowadays are more watered down and censored compared to the past and have added a certain agenda narrative content that isn't in the source material.

When you say "global", do you just mean "wider"? As in, "beyond the confines of the fanbase formed prior to the anime adaptation"?

Wider indeed, outside Japan. Foreigners have different standard and morals, if they want to sell anime to a foreign country with questionable content, they are forced to: censor questionable scenes for western standards, watering down and alter the story and dialogues, add certain global agenda elements. This is what they do to anime nowadays, this is blatant and i'm surprised some people don't get it (and sometimes even BDs are still censored).

 

[Eighty-six]

Nope, you can indeed remove some useless dialogues but not scenes important to the story or make them less important. This is what i call a bad adaption.

What I'm saying is that whatever you have problems with in the adaptation, are likely NOT the product of wanting to "water things down" for an American audience. You don't even have hints from production that this might have been the case-- you only have the allegation that things were watered down, and you attribute that impression to production wanting to appeal to a global audience. You give zero rationale for this conclusion, despite the myriad reasons outside of that, that adaptational deviations may be made for any work.

By your logic, they should be watering down the localizations of the manga and LN-- but you've only been speaking of adaptational deviations in the anime, and you've presumably been comparing the anime to your impressions of the English localization of the LNs.

This is a reason indeed, tv standards, but also to appeal to a global audience, in the past when anime were less known, censorship were much less too, with full violence, nudes on tv too

On television? Well, that's just not true.

What's changed in recent times is that anime has become more known in America. Still, the American market is dwarfed by (and is younger than) the Korean, Chinese, Southeast Asian, Latin American, and even French markets-- all of which have always had their own cultural, broadcasting and general media standards (the Chinese being notorious for theirs). All those places have different and sometimes even more "bland" standards that the Japanese pop culture industries-- if they cared-- would be more inclined to pander to before pandering to stateside interests. Yet, the Chinese or Singaporean markets clearly haven't been stifling Japanese creativity.

As a matter of fact, it's been relatively recently that Americans have tapered down their censorship of Japanese media-- it used to be far worse in the 80s and 90s, despite the current controversy of localizers messing with scripts to insert their sociopolitical agendas. At any rate, if they were so inclined, American publishers have censored Japanese media themselves-- as opposed to Japanese producers pulling punches for some peripheral audience.

You're seriously overestimating American relevance.

This is a fact that anime nowadays are more watered down and censored compared to the past and have added a certain agenda narrative that aren't in the original content.

This makes no sense. The issues you're talking about in anime should be in their source material all the same, especially if they're both being produced in the same era.

 

[Nick86]

What I'm saying is that whatever you have problems with the adaptation, are likely NOT the product of wanting to water things down for an American audience.

They did beforehand the production begin, is the committee that decide if an adaption can be faithfull or need changes to please a more wider global agenda. If the author refuse the anime will not be made.

By your logic, they should be watering down the localizations of the manga and LN

They already did, western publishers censor manga and light novels, blatant example is Mushoku Tensei but there are many others like Classroom of the Elite and so on, the list is long, they toned down sexual content and change dialogues, also censor panels.

On television? Well, that's just not true. I also suspect you're conflating "non-erotic" with erotic nudity.

Nope, was speaking about regular anime adaptations, nudity and violence were much more a thing, the censorship and moralization of tv anime began around 2010 or so, when anime medium became more and more popular.

As a matter of fact, it's been relatively recently that Americans have tapered down their censorship of Japanese media-- it used to be far worse in the 80s and 90s, despite the current controversy of localizers messing with scripts to insert their sociopolitical agendas. At any rate, if they were so inclined, American publishers have censored Japanese media themselves.

Because there is no need to censor anime in the west anymore since is the creator studio that now censor directly in Japan (see above, the committee) and adapt the work for a wider global audience.
I watch anime since mid 80 and censorship is now so bad compared to the past that is very depressing, indeed only a log term anime follower can understand such remarkable differences, because censorship is gradual, step after step, year after year.

 

[Eighty-six]

They did beforehand the production begin, is the committee that decide if an adaption can be faithfull or need changes to please a more wider global agenda.

The deliberations they make in that phase are far more expansive and nuanced than that, and more than likely are not concerned with a "global audience" because-- again-- the Japanese, even now, are typically more concerned with their domestic market. They judge success based on success in the domestic market-- any overseas market success is normally perceived as a happy accident.

They already did, western publishers censor manga and light novels, blatant example is Mushoku Tensei but there are many others like Classroom of the Elite and so on, the list is long, they toned down sexual content and change dialogues, also censor panels.

These practices aren't consistent across American publishers-- in fact, they're not even consistent practice within American publishers. You've given two examples from the same one publisher that's notorious for excessive liberties taken in localization, but I'm asking about the publishers relevant to the material at hand.

Nope, was speaking about regular anime adaptations, nudity and violence were much more a thing, the censorship and moralization of tv anime began around 2010 or so, when anime medium became more and more popular.

Violence and nudity are still very much things in anime, even anime imported stateside.

I watch anime since mid 80 and censorship is now so bad compared to the past that is very depressing, indeed only a log term anime follower can understand such remarkable differences, because censorship is gradual, step after step, year after year.

Are you sure you're not just conflating changing trends in anime with censorship?

 

[Nick86]

The deliberations they make in that phase are far more expansive and nuanced than that, and more than likely are not concerned with a "global audience" because-- again-- the Japanese, even now, are typically more concerned with their domestic market. They judge success based on success in the domestic market-- any overseas market success is normally perceived as a happy accident.

Shield hero is co-produced with CR, so is not a japanese thing anymore, and more western companies do this now, censorship is created beforehand according to western standards. This is why the manga is not affected, the source material is still in the hands of the japanese publisher.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Crunchyroll/comments/y7gaa9

These practices aren't consistent across American publishers-- in fact, they're not even consistent practice within American publishers. You've given two examples from the same one publisher that's notorious for excessive liberties taken in localization, but I'm asking about the publishers relevant to the material at hand.

But they did, is not an isolated case, there is another publisher that did the same, do not remember the name, this is unfortunately a trend.

Violence and nudity are still very much things in anime, even anime imported stateside.

BDs or some download pay services only, CR and other digital publishers do, expecially if they invest into them (co-production).

Are you sure you're not just conflating changing trends in anime with censorship?

Both are connected, popularity mean compromises and homogenization to global standards, at least for now is only for anime, light novels and manga are censored in the publisher foreign country but not in the country of origin, so there is still hope.

 

[Eighty-six]

Regarding shield hero, is co-produced with CR,

And several other companies, with CR being the only non-Japanese one.

This is why the manga is not affected, the source material is completely in the hand of the japanese publisher only.

It's also in the hand of their designated regional publishers, which is why you can still talk about localizer failures like those that Seven Seas Entertainment is involved in. It's why 4Kids is notorious. It's why Funimation became notorious.

But they did, is not an islated case, there is another publisher that did thesame, do not remember the name, this is unfortunately a trend.

Even if it's not an isolated case, it's not a "trend" per se-- it's something that some American publishers of Japanese material do. Some others-- like Kodansha or Yen Press-- don't do it. Do you know if One Peace does it?

BDs or some download services only, CR and other digital publishers censor.

And Japanese television censors have always censored for their own domestic audience. The regulation on genital depictions alone has existed since at least the 1950s.

Both are connected, popularity mean compromises and homogenization to global standards,

If it's popular in the first place as is, then there's especially no need to conform to American standards.

The reason why localizers pull the stunts like what you were referencing isn't because they're trying to make it palatable to an American audience-- it's because those localizers are themselves failed writers trying to get their do-over by playing backseat writer with someone else's work, and the Japanese often aren't paying attention.

There's no reason to believe that a work that includes-- as a major plot device-- institutional slavery, was somehow watered down in its adaptation specifically for the sake of appealing to a global audience, especially when that major plot device continues to be used in said adaptation. Literally, the newest episode has Naofumi demanding a suspicious benefactor consent to having a slave crest affixed to them.

Meanwhile, the way that they remove Raphtalia's slave crest is fundamentally identical between manga and anime. In the anime, Naofumi and company are framed for killing soldiers (sent to assassinate Melty) by having video of that event altered to include blood to make it look like they were cut down in cold blood. Iron Maiden and Blood Sacrifice are... Iron Maiden and Blood Sacrifice. Are you aware of the kind of gore and nudity-- involving real people-- that gets featured in American film and television, despite America's sexual schizophrenia?

Putting aside your own preferences for the adaptation, what is being watered down that can even be reasonably assumed to be something done to appeal to an American audience, as opposed to it being watered down due to lack of directorial skill? A swath of American viewers didn't even like that Raphtalia didn't directly kill her former owner in the anime, and the "current agenda" would absolutely condone killing your slaver. That's the best example you have-- that's the one you went with before deciding that you didn't feel like going into whatever your other examples were.

 

[Nick86]

And several other companies, with CR being the only non-Japanese one.

Western publishers tend to censor, a lot, not eveything but a good part of it.

Even if it's not an isolated case, it's not a "trend" per se-- it's something that some American publishers of Japanese material do. Some others-- like Kodansha or Yen Press-- don't do it. Do you know if One Peace does it?

Unfortunately is a often overused trend to adapt to a wider audience (mean more money).

And Japanese television censors have always censored for their own domestic audience. The regulation on genital depictions alone has existed since at least the 1950s.

Guess only people of a certain age can understand how anime were in the past. I grow up with anime and manga, the industry changed a lot in these past 30 years, not for the good.

Putting aside your own preferences for the adaptation, what is being watered down that can even be reasonably assumed to be something done to appeal to an American audience, as opposed to it being watered down due to lack of directorial skill? A swath of American viewers didn't even like that Raphtalia didn't directly kill her former owner in the anime, and the "current agenda" would absolutely condone killing your slaver. That's the best example you have-- that's the one you went with before deciding that you didn't feel like going into whatever your other examples were.

Shield Hero is watered dawn and censored in the anime format cause CR, known to censor lot of anime in co-production works.T he more interference from western companies the more anime will be censored even in the country of origin.
But if you like as it now good for you, for me the anime is the worst adaption. The good thing is that CR abandoned some days ago manga digital maket because is not profitable.

 

[Eighty-six]

Western publishers tend to censor, a lot, not eveything but a good part of it.

But you've failed to demonstrate any evidence for the censorious pressure of Crunchyroll, specifically. Actually, you currently haven't demonstrated whether any of the changes are censorious in nature, to begin with.

You've only ever talked about a change that chafed a notable portion of American viewers, whose original iteration would have been more in line with the "agenda" you keep alluding to. My opinion on Naofumi's character in the adaptation probably isn't that popular for Americans who are at least aware of the manga, because a lot of people find it cathartic when he cuts loose and gets revenge against those who've wronged him (to the point that it's a misconception that this is generally a "revenge story"). There are multiple aspects of the narrative that existed and continue to exist in the adaptation, that run against the idea that there's a beholden-ness to American sensibilities-- and that's putting aside the American preference for violence as reflected in its own media. You're appealing to how American publishers exert this pressure or otherwise actively do the censorship themselves, and yet there are American publishers that don't.

Your way of trying to demonstrate your assertion has nothing to do with the relevant parties or even the outcomes that may be a product of such interference, but instead other companies entirely. You would think that someone that's apparently been in the anime scene since the 80s would know the difference between publishers and their contrasting behaviors, instead of just using the acts of some American publishers to inform themselves about all American publishers.

Guess only people of a certain age can understand how anime were in the past. I grow up with anime and manga, the industry changed a lot in these past 30 years, not for the good.

Entertainment scenes always change, almost entirely for domestic reasons rather than international. Even more so for a country so culturally self-concerned as Japan, and for businesses that are so preoccupied with domestic performance as Japanese businesses.

 

[Nick86]

But you've failed to demonstrate any evidence for the censorious pressure of Crunchyroll, specifically. Actually, you currently haven't demonstrated whether any of the changes are censorious in nature, to begin with.

I linked above the evidence, is official co-production. There is no more to add unless you post a statement where they claim nothing is changed.

You've ... businesses.

Wall of text, nonsense, they are part of the committee and they decide the content. Same fate for Goblin Slayer, today episode had a lot of watered down content, just read summary on reddit like for Shield Hero.

 

[Eighty-six]

I linked above the evidence,

Where's the evidence? All you've argued is CR's one of the producers.

is official co-production.

That's not evidence. That's association guilt. At best, that's reason to be suspicious and investigate further for concrete evidence. Did anybody in production indicate what you're claiming in any way whatsoever, even slightly?

It's also ignoring that there are at least seven co-producers, and Crunchyroll is only one of them. And does Crunchyroll not host lewd and/or violent material on their site?

There is no more to add unless you post a statement where they claim nothing is changed.

I'm not the one making a claim that things were changed specifically for American sensibilities while only being able to bring up an ambiguous example that didn't even particularly meet American sensibilities-- as in, people had a dislike for it without even knowing that it differed from the manga or the LN (it's even worse that you didn't correctly recount that sequence).

It's fine to have issues with the adaptation compared to the source material-- myself, I just said that I like Naofumi's representation in the anime versus the manga (and presumably LN, which irks me because I like to hold source material as supreme on principle, and would probably dislike the changes they made from the source material if I knew about the lot of them). That said, what you find to be the failures of the adaptation don't need to the product of globalization in entertainment-- especially when you don't have concrete evidence for it.

 

[Nick86]

Where's the evidence? All you've argued is CR's one of the producers.

I provide a link above, shield hero and goblin slayer are altered, you quoted me in the first place but you do not post any statement that they as part of the commitee do not alter anime content.

That's not evidence...

It is, they are investors so if they want to change content to be profitable for a more wider audience they can, infact they did.

 

[Eighty-six]

I provide a link above--

Of Crunchyroll being one of the producers for this anime. You then assume that any deviation that has been made thus far has been for their purposes-- specifically, censorious ones or other alterative ones meant to suit an American audience.

...despite the source material being fundamentally unchanged, and despite there being adaptational deviations that didn't generally go well with the American audience.

 

[Nick86]

Of Crunchyroll being one of the producers for this anime. You then assume that any deviation that has been made thus far has been for their purposes-- specifically, censorious ones or other alterative ones meant to suit an American audience.

...despite the source material being fundamentally unchanged, and despite there being adaptational deviations that didn't generally go well with the American audience.

Fine, prove me countrary with a official statement then i can believe you are right. But publishers do not care about deviations from source material even if fans get angry, they only care about ratings, revenue and offend less people possible to keep an image of political correctness, this is why they censor and change anime adaptions in the fist place.

 

[Eighty-six]

Prove me countrary with a official statement

In the first place, you were the one who made the specific positive claim that the deviations were for the sake of censorship and making the work more suitable to an American palate. Not only have you still failed to produce any potential examples for-- at least-- consideration, you didn't provide any official (or even unofficial) statement supporting your thesis. Even the example you did cite was incorrectly recapitulated.

Prove yourself with an official statement.

It's obvious that there's deviations from the source material. What's not obvious is why, because there are multiple potential and non-mutually exclusive reasons why. What's likely is that the changes didn't come from wanting to appeal to American sensibilities, given what's still in the adaptation, and given what was changed that probably wouldn't suit an American palate.

 

[Nick86]

In the first place, you were the one who made the specific positive claim...

Yes because i'm sure what i said is accurate, and after you quote me, i don't know who you are and why you defend CR to this degree, but you have to prove i'm wrong with a statement.

Prove yourself with an official statement.

The link i provide above is an official statement from the publisher.

It's obvious that there's deviations from the source material. What's not obvious is why, because there are multiple potential and non-mutually exclusive reasons why. What's likely is that the changes didn't come from wanting to appeal to American sensibilities, given what's still in the adaptation, and given what was changed that probably wouldn't suit an American palate.

Not american per sè but global, purpose is to watering down content for a global audience as a whole, to please as much people as possible, even not series fans or people not into anime at all.

 

[Eighty-six]

The link i provide above is an official statement from the publisher.

That's not an official statement that they changed anything to fit with American (or global-- whatever, non-Japanese) sensibilities-- it's an unofficial (but seemingly somewhat accurate) list that, among other things, notes they're a co-producer with Kadokawa for this anime.

You say you're sure, but I'm not, and you're the one trying to sell me on the idea that a practice as regular as adaptational deviation was done in this particular case for "global audiences" despite the most potentially objectionable material being kept intact and despite your sole narrative example being an inaccurate recapitulation of what was actually in the anime.

 

[Nick86]

That's not an official statement that they changed anything to fit with American (or global-- whatever, non-Japanese) sensibilities-- it's an unofficial (but seemingly somewhat accurate) list that, among other things, notes they're a co-producer with Kadokawa for this anime.

You say you're sure, but I'm not, and you're the one trying to sell me on the idea that a practice as regular as adaptational deviation was done in this particular case for "global audiences" despite the most potentially objectionable material being kept intact and despite your sole narrative example being an inaccurate recapitulation of what was actually in the anime.

Do not matter, they are investors so if they want to change content to be profitable for a more wider audience they can beforehand, infact they clearly did it otherwise there is no need to watering down content since both of them are late night show.
Publishers only care about ratings, revenue and offend less people possible to keep an image of political correctness, this is why they censor and change anime adaptions in the fist place. This is my personal opinion.

 

[Coldlight]

Well, well... seems Raphtalia has yet another rival in Atla. As if she didn't already have her hands full wrangling Sadeena-neesan.

Naofumi healed Atla and brought her back from the brink of death, this gave her another shot at life to the degree that she can even walk again, so her developing feelings for her savior is kinda understandable, and I wouldn't blame this girl for feeling that way. He is her miraculous hero from her POV.

 

[subwayeatflesh]

😭