The Saga of Tanya the Evil - Vol. 14 Ch. 39 - Trial by Fire V

[Robbini]

@duylinh

I was referring strictly to the invasion / landing of Normandy, which essentially was the first few days, though I might've come off as a bit too vague. As for the landings, I heard a few thousand killed, whereas for the airborne troops there's no real way of knowing, because they were scattered all to hell. On that note, how far inland did the battle ofNormandy actually count as the battle of Normandy?

@C3PO

Gallipoli went into a meatgrinder stalemate, not reaching any serious goals they had set out to achieve, while sustaining heavy losses, all the while they had been told that such an invasion was idiotic and wouldn't succeed, even by Churchill who had proposed it .
Normandy had a few setbacks, but they were on the offensive most of the time, and not losing vast amounts of troops in the same area over and over again to no gains.
Also like in my statement above, how far inland did it have to be to be considered as the battle of Normandy?

 

[Yautja]

Jesus, 70 fucking pages, Christ. While I love this manga, sometimes it feels like I'm studying something or facing a chore.

 

[duylinh]

@Robbini The number I gave, 4100 confirmed killed and 10000 casualties are for the first day of the landing ALONE. You weren't vague when you mention "A few thousand at most were wounded or killed on the allied side during Normandy". It is not a few thousand, it is 10000 casualties or more and I don't think that number takes into account the airborne casualties, only landing units casualties. What part of it is unclear? Compare to Gallipoli landing with total casualty of Anzac at 900 and Cape Helles at 6500 to a total of 7400 there's not much of a difference. Both campaigns have massive casualties because of the situation the men were put in. The key difference in the landings to me is the air power possessed in the Second World War to allowed for a successful landing whereas in Gallipoli there was no such solution.

 

[scripted]

Plus one for the Hearts of Iron fan here

and Zettour having Popeye arms

 

[nanaya]

@sdarkpaladin Carlo Zen plays Hearts of Iron lol

 

[quint]

in fact Carlo actually praised the tanya mod for HoI on twatter, i think.

 

[Robbini]

@duylinh

Fair enough, when I mentioned Normandy first, I had in mind strictly the landings .Which I had heard had a few thousand killed and more wounded, half of which were on Omaha or Utah.

As for the major differences between Normandy & Gallipoli, airpower is probably one, but number of troops, availability of reserves ,both in quality, quantity, location and time needed to activate them on the invaded side probably had a bigger role, as when in Normandy they got off the beaches, there were no secondary lines close to them nor reserves brought up to force them back quick enough, so when they got through those initial defences they were able to consolidate defence lines further inward which seriously decreased the risk for the further logistics.

From what I heard of Gallipoli , the troops had been taught and expected trench warfare and having none or very little previous experience with other types of warfare, and thus acted on it, therefore having no knowledge on what to do after breaking through, as they had not been taught to seize the opportunity (a problem found several times during WW1 and lead to troops being retrained for it), and the highest british command there has been... reputed to have been utterly rubbish or incompetent.

The difference in the troops is also evident, the germans at normandy as far as I heard were new recruits, foreign units in the wehrmacht (of foreigners) or otherwise understrength but possibly experienced. Rommel was a great commander, but he wasn't there on site at the time, so, and the reserves were not all available to him.
It had also been thoroughly trained and planned out for by the Allies.

Gallipoli was less thought out and they were confident in that the ottomans / turks were 2nd rate troops at best, and could up no real threat, so they weren't really prepared. And the logistical problems were large, whereas the ottomans were on homeground and one of their field commanders was Mustafa Kemal.

Also, most of the airpower during the initial landing other than the airborne troops (which were still scattered all over northern france, but did complete some objectives and otherwise caused lots of chaos) which was meant to destroy the beach defences MISSED them and dropped the bombs further inland, because they were so afraid of bombing their own troops.

 

[Fletchawk]

@Yuatja
Well, it's got to hold us over until the next chapter is translated. Personally, its length allows me to fully delve into the story.

 

[theo1996]

Thomas the war logistics train. On your [insert national children's TV channel] every SAT 10PM. Choo! Choo! Remember kids the empire did nothing wrong!

 

[mimicking]

tanya's memory of history is deteriorating?

 

[N0Mi0]

@C3PO @Robbini @duylinh

>D-Day and Gallipoli losses comparison

Laughs in Eastern Front of WWII losses

Seriously speaking, though, there's a reason why it's almost impossible to make a Russian acknowledge that other countries have made any significant impact on the Allied victory when compared to Soviet's input.

Though I personally despise this publicly enforced trend. I mean they literally teach you at schools around here that WWII was basically just Soviet-German War with all other countries chilling and waiting for Soviets to do everything themselves up until the D-Day, which is unironically called in history books as "The opening of the Second Front of World War II." Sick, huh? So from an ordinary Russian's point of view, up until 6th of June, 1944, it was just USSR vs Nazi Germany (which are called exclusively fascist here). The founding for this opinion? "WOULD YOU LOOK AT THE SOVIET LOSSES, YOU AMERIKAFAG?" So even if you somehow start a real discussion you would be asked why do you like US so much? Cold War? It never ended here. All bad comes from the West lead by 'Америка.'

..Well, you need someone to blame for all those economical and cultural problems, huh?

Just a random insight into one of the world's most profound propaganda examples. I emphasize: to this. Very. Day.

@mahtan
>Are we supposed to see what Tanya is doing as wrong here?

We aren't supposed to see it in any way. It's a grey chronology of WWI-like events, and the author does his best to portray it as such. Though the number of people calling Arene a war crime when it clearly was not is a little bit sad. It's as if for some people the mere fact of non-combatants dying is a sin.

 

[Robbini]

@N0Mi0
They called D-day the 2nd European Front, not the 2nd front entirely in WW2. Though that's also debatable considering Africa before that, Sicily and then Italy.
Though I can't recall ever going into WW2 Eastern Front casualties here ,I do usually admit the USSR did most of the heavy lifting of WW2 if discussing it, although the material support from the other Allies was pretty big, and the whole fact that the Germans had to keep a pretty sizable amount of luftwaffe planes against Britain, losing a portion of it as well and then keeping many afterwards there did probably make things easier for the Soviets and the whole Italian and French invasions later on did help things along as well.

That's not to say they couldn't have won entirely on their own,but if the Axis were allowed to redeploy all their forces in Europe against the USSR, without having to worry about anyone else, it would've been an even more brutal and longer war.

As for how the public opinion of it is... Cold War and the fact that the western allies are just that much better at information manipulation & control and propaganda + the USSR not really covering things up afterwards but not really having a lot of media, books or whatnot about their side during the war... well, it was inevitable really.

Cultural differences also have a role probably, but the fact of the matter is that the USSR was fighting for it's survival, and it was doing so in a way that showed they cared very little for their own soldiers' lives. It won. And it might've won quicker and cheaper than if they had cared, but they didn't, and guessing what might've happened is never really provable.

 

[Ahan1899]

Regarding the recorded footage, thank god they haven't invented video editing software yet

 

[MarquisBlack]

That François BSOD was equal parts hard to read and similarly satisfying. When you play with militias and legal interpretations of their combat status, you play with fire.

 

[Liquidxlax]

@Ahan1899 good thing they don't have pictures like us because photoshop has basically existed since the expose based pictures. You can overlap photos add different things just by exposing areas selectively on the photopaper. There is that famous picture of Stalin and his men and over the years the picture was modified taking out a couple of guys here and there or changing details.

Wondering if the dino ref about the concord had to do with the concord being basically the best commercial plane out there (minus efficiency) and simply went extinct due to noise pollution and cost to run

 

[ZelousR2]

Why is this happening?! You let this happened when you USED the civilians as SHIELDS! instead of EVACUATING them as you SHOULD have done you dipshit😑

 

[Morihere]

OwO

 

[KeiB]

Top lel. Weiss just casually joking about having Tanya comfort him.

 

[SotiCoto]

Typical capitalist trash.
Fight economic wars instead of literal ones?
Fuck that shit. What kind of sadist would rather force people to suffer in poverty en masse than to be euthanised and end their suffering?
Physical violence is always preferable to financial violence.

 

[Xian_Sama]

Violence is not the answer, But a question in which you say "Yes"