Tsuihou Suru Gawa no Monogatari

[Ahdharr]

It's a 1 because the writing and characters are awful, the overall premise is lackluster and filled with badly used tropes, and the art doesn't even salvage it. There's nothing that can be pointed to that redeems the work.

We have countless series that would be amazing if serialized that end up being short one chapter promos for LN while this objectively bad work gets greenlit. It's not even something to be angry about, its one to find disappointing at minimum when there are supposedly not enough artists to work on other series far more deserving that get cancelled/hiatus.

Readers signaling dislike for this one is something the localization companies DO pay attention to. We see "official" groups linking to their paywalled stuff all the time on here. Giving it a 1 will signal to them this work is not one readers will buy or pay to read.

There's no valid case that this work is something that should be financially rewarded, and another creator would get their story picked up instead, helping good writers/artists being supported is another reason bad works like this should be rated poorly.

 

[Ghost-0]

Honestly this manga has one of the unique twist in your usual banishment plot.

Sadly, the execution are kinda piss poor.

 

[AB_17]

after so many time of reading manga on this website , i have just create an account now to give this crap a 1 star .
even though 1 is to much this nonsense, god this s*it made my blood boiling.

 

[Zans]

I am looking for the name of the original series this spinoff is based on. It follows exiled character from the story and has a more normal pace. I remember reading it a long time ago before this spinoff came out but have not found anything googling. It's been hard cause the original’s author seems to be different. It's really bugging me I can't remember the name. The main series was much better quality than this spinoff.

 

[Carpfoon]

TLDR: not bad, actually decent. If you can't bother to fully read my sparknotes version of it, you most likely didn't read past the 1st chapter and made an assumption based on what you read in chapter 1.

It's NOT THAT BAD. 4/10. People are so unnecessarily critical of "bad writing" when they haven't written a single story in their lives. People forget that 1 is the lowest score possible here, in which case I consider a blank manga to be a 1 - there is literally no content. Everyone jumping on the bandwagon and giving this a 1 because they think this manga "deserves it" and starts insulting the author because they probably sold their souls to the devil and have nothing but hate in their hearts. Relax.

EDIT: (spoliers): previous edit was made after reading halfway, and now after reading to the latest 28 chapters, I'd say this actually good manga is a 7/10. People seem to think that Est is the MC- he is not. Immediately after reading the 1st chapter, everyone started to assume everything. The manga literally focuses 90% on the original party that kicked him out. It shows a realistic counter perspective to the over-saturated "kicked from my party" manga. It shows how while yes, the "hero" that was kicked out, does get super strong with some ability, and yes, the party gets weaker- AND then the story goes into depth about each of the character's flaws.

Daru literally brought the team back together. Frey and Athena learned how to coordinate and work together. Daru was "holding back" due to the fact that he was in a previous party in which someone he really cared about died. The manga literally shows character development in each of them. Mirialia herself was holding back because she was happy just seeing Athena happy. But after Daru's involvement and the demon showing up, Daru's advice brought her strength out to actually do some shit to protect people she care about. Now only that, he made "evil Est" realize that they wanted to keep him safe rather than anything. Est finally realizes and no "revenge" happens, but instead his own character develops further.

Daru did NOT cuck Est. Stop getting your feelings hurt on behalf of a fictional character. Daru literally had to pick up this drunk ass girl and put her in bed. He noticed she was pretty but IMMEDIATELY thought "bruh I'm like 20, nah bruh". That was literally it.
Est literally has a fcking meltdown saying " I will show them how useful I am" and chapters later when the party literally gets stronger again with Daru's guidance, he says "why are they not pleading me to join back" with an expression on his face saying "y'all ain't shit without me, wth happened". Est is quite literally "white savior syndrome", and most of y'all got cucked from that so you start hating on this manga. Daru took Athena out on a "date" to clear her mind. Bro had literally 0 intention of romance. Guy is literally the mature adult here telling Athena to take a chill pill and relax.

If people actually read past chapter 5, it actually slowly explains and shows everything.

 

[Puck2]

It's NOT THAT BAD. 4/10. People are so unnecessarily critical of "bad writing" when they haven't written a single story in their lives. People forget that 1 is the lowest score possible here, in which case I consider a blank manga to be a 1 - there is literally no content. Everyone jumping on the bandwagon and giving this a 1 because they think this manga "deserves it" and starts insulting the author because they probably sold their souls to the devil and have nothing but hate in their hearts.

You are setting the bar for 1 extremely low. Most people don't have the time/ motivation to write a whole novel because they have a job. For an author writing is his/her job so people expect that he/she can do it. Just because people don't write stories themselves doesn't mean that they are not able to tell if it's good or bad. If I have my car repaired and the mechanic does a poor job I will complain. I won't stay silent because I don't know how to fix a car because it's his job not mine. For what the author "tried" to do in this case he did a very poor job.

People seem to think that Est is the MC- he is not. Immediately after reading the 1st chapter, everyone started to assume everything. The manga literally focuses 90% on the original party that kicked him out. It shows a realistic counter perspective to the over-saturated "kicked from my party" manga. It shows how while yes, the "hero" that was kicked out, does get super strong with some ability, and yes, the party gets weaker- AND then the story goes into depth about each of the character's flaws.

I disagree. People knew from the start that Est wouldn't be the MC but they expected the story to be about the banishing party. Considering this point the focus should have been either on the whole party or on the party leader, Athena, and not Daru. But the story is completely centred around him.

Spoiler

Best example is the final battle. It's not a joint party effort but in the end Daru will solo the demon. Even though nobody knew of his sealed powers everybody (including Est) believes that he will win. At this point it would make sense that Est joins the fight because he soloed quests and dungeons the "weak" party couldn't. But he gets benched with some lame excuse so that everybody can see how great Daru is. It doesn't make sense that everybody relies on Daru.

Chapters about other characters are just fillers and stay shallow. I don't see any depth in this manga. The characters don't act according to their personality, background or knowledge. They act according to what the author needs at one specific moment.

Daru literally brought the team back together. Frey and Athena learned how to coordinate and work together.

Frey wasn't an original member of the team, Est was. But Daru doesn't even care about clearing up the misunderstanding until it's too late reunite the childhood friends. Moreover, Athena will never know that there was a misunderstanding.

Daru was "holding back" due to the fact that he was in a previous party in which someone he really cared about died.

If you go with this interpretation it would mean that he doesn't care for Est.

The manga literally shows character development in each of them. Mirialia herself was holding back because she was happy just seeing Athena happy. But after Daru's involvement and the demon showing up, Daru's advice brought her strength out to actually do some shit to protect people she care about. Now only that, he made "evil Est" realize that they wanted to keep him safe rather than anything. Est finally realizes and no "revenge" happens, but instead his own character develops further.

No, the characters don't develop, they just change for plot reasons to get to a "happy ending" where everything the banishing party did wrong is forgiven. Daru's speech to protect people you care about should have come when Est nearly died. Banishing Est wasn't some wise decision of the "adult" Daru because he thought that Est and Athena would become stronger. At this point, especially if you have a look at how Est was banished, the only logical consequence would have been Est's demise/death. Est doesn't develop but just acts according to knowledge he doesn't have. Without any clarifying talk he just accepts everything that happened like water under the bridge. Furthermore, he also abandons all his feelings for Athena because he "developed". The author just wanted him out of the way for probable romance with Daru.

Daru did NOT cuck Est. Stop getting your feelings hurt on behalf of a fictional character. Daru literally had to pick up this drunk ass girl and put her in bed. He noticed she was pretty but IMMEDIATELY thought "bruh I'm like 20, nah bruh". That was literally it.
Daru took Athena out on a "date" to clear her mind. Bro had literally 0 intention of romance. Guy is literally the mature adult here telling Athena to take a chill pill and relax.

From the start it doesn't make sense to call Daru good or bad because he's not a real person but a fictional character. Furthermore, he's (like all the other characters) so shallow. The author wanted him to be the hero of the story whereas he behaves either stupid or indifferent with the consequence of hurting Est (but of course with good intentions).
Even though the "cuck-scenes" lead to no real romance the question is why they are even in the manga:

• picking up drunk Athena: Misunderstanding would have been enough to start angry Est plot. Why does Daru have to mention that she is cute. Scene would have been perfectly fine without this sentence.
• guild scene: what's with Athena's face after getting praised by Daru and getting hugged by him
• date: why does it have to be just Daru and Athena and not the whole party. Furthermore clothes-shopping where he tells her how beautiful she is (of course she's blushing), stroll through the city with repeatedly touching and a romantic night-sky with lanterns.

Even though it's true what you said about the rough content it really needs an tremendous effort to ignore the implications intended by the mangaka.

Est literally has a fcking meltdown saying " I will show them how useful I am" and chapters later when the party literally gets stronger again with Daru's guidance, he says "why are they not pleading me to join back" with an expression on his face saying "y'all ain't shit without me, wth happened". Est is quite literally "white savior syndrome", and most of y'all got cucked from that so you start hating on this manga.

The girl he loves kicked him out of the party in the cruelest way with the reason that he is weak. After he became strong he finds her in a compromising situation which hurts him even more. And even after he eliminated the reason for his banishment "his friends" didn't reach out to him but integrated a stranger into the party and just start small talk when they accidentally meet him. I admit, he behaves a bit extreme in the guild scene but they didn't even try to explain the real reason for his banishment (neither before, nor after). Daru passes to buck to Est because he doesn't get the "real"reason, though he should be the only one who knows why Est behaves like he does. (as already mentioned, he makes the situation even worse by hugging her in the scene).
He doesn't have "white savior syndrome" but he is enraged because he thinks that the real reason for his banishment was a love affair between Daru and Athena (as they didn't approach him when he became stronger). From his point of view absolutely understandable.
If they were really Est's friends they should have talked to him from the start and not assume that he would understand things on his own. If he still behaved like that you could make him the bad guy.
The immense lack of communication assuming that everybody would understand everything because they "develop" (although I don't see any development, Athena doesn't know anything to the end) is really one of the most annoying things in this manga. There is no (logical) development in the story.

It shows a realistic counter perspective to the over-saturated "kicked from my party" manga.

Not it doesn't. The plot isn't a counter perspective (which everyone expected). Starting with the banishment because of friendship between Athena and Est (the "compassionate" leader doesn't even try to understand his feelings to the end) it doesn't develop into a story of a weakened party becoming stronger (instead of relying on Est Athena now relies on Daru). It's all about showing the greatness of the "tragic hero" Daru.
This isn't what the readers "paid", thus the great disappointment (another MC power fantasy, but with very poor development), thus the low rating.

 

[Khri_na]

first time I see manga in 3 star

 

[mavk0229]

This is the worst I have ever read, and the MC is really a joke

 

[Argo_32]

Nah this is just an NTR story. Dude loses the girl and being the actual MC. If este died immediately they would.be all shoulders. 🤷‍♂️ 🤷‍♂️ 🤷‍♂️ 🤷‍♂️ 🤷‍♂️

Be like I knew he would die. Oh well. But the dude actually improved and distance himself and thrived.

Est is actually the one to root for. They didnt even try to help him. Immediately banished for fear of death despite he would probably adventurer anyways.

Without ESte Athena is weak. Is she banished no. Because she's the leader and she pretty. She gets help comfort and guidance because the whole time she was relying on este enchantments

Idiot Dur was just holding back the whole time because the plot demanded it (he literally could heal este) and gets a pseudo harem by screwing over a friend.

 

[Ahdharr]

I posted this in a spoiler tag a few months back after rereading this to try and find something salvagable, but this sums up this work perfectly IMO:

Spoiler: Prior explanation

Actually the worst "harem" work I've ever seen and there are some incredibly bad ones. Its one thing to be a copypasta plot similar to what others have done, but its another to be different for the sake of it and do almost everything wrong from start to end.

Its not about the reader wanting a certain set type of story, its the author overtly made it about him, and almost lecturing us using Est as a stawman for what he hates about "revenge/redemption" stories.

Even there its horribly executed in the most hypocritical way possible, and if that wasn't their intent (which is the only plausible explanation for it that makes any sense is that is completely what they were going for: Berating us, the reader, for pulling for Est instead of his self-insert pedasterous groomer Daru) they managed to do it even more poorly than even that.

It is indeed a 1, for a variety of reasons, but the sanctimonious author who uses Daru as a self-insert who is an awful person who gaslights and manipulates the girls (and Est) being the biggest reason of all.

Mfw someone says something like: "He brought the party back together" the dude legit gaslit Athena constantly and suddenly decided to show his "TRUE POWER (tm)" when he could've helped mentor Est the whole time. dude never made any effort at all before or after.

If he was scared about losing people in his prior party it shows how bullshit that line of thinking is, because they likely knew he wouldn't give up (and possibly die), Daru gaslit and preyed on Athena's concerns about Est to kick him out. dude showing Athena affection in front of Est shows what his motives are.

You don't gaslight Athena telling her how strong she is and ego boost her, and then go on a cozy romantic date platonically. You haven't read ANY harem manga at all if you really believe that. Est got cucked. Denying that is some weird sort of cope that makes no sense.

But its obvious what the story is Daru is the author's self-insert, that's cringe in the first place, and its horribly executed as well.

 

[MajinBOOST]

Nothing about this story made sense and at this point I'm convinced its the author's poorly disguised NTR fetish.

To begin with, the reason they kick out Est makes absolutely no sense at all. Athena, the leader of the party, kicks him out because she's scared that he'll get hurt because he's a support class. Seems pretty valid until you realize that he would just go into the dungeons ALONE ANYWAYS and potentially die there. And the way they break it to him is "you're weak, go home." So of course you're like wow, that was a pretty horrible way to let him go, but at least it makes sense.

Except when you read more you realize in fact that it DID NOT make sense at all??? Turns out that Daru, the real MC of the story, was holding himself back. So was the elf girl. So instead of protecting their support class like any sensible party, they basically let him get hurt so that Athena kicks him out of the party.

Anyways BIG SPOILERS from here, it turns out that this manga actually is a NTR fetish made around painting Est as the bad guy and giving Daru a harem as depicted in the novel.

TLDR; the art is good, the story isn't. If you were looking for a refreshing take on the fantasy "banished party member" trope, I suggest looking elsewhere.

 

[frantzxx]

I feel Bad for the boy. The author clearly prefers an old drunk dude to Ntr the Childhoods friends. The more I read the more I hate the old man. He seems like the greatest guy, but makes the childhood friends to separate more while saying I cheer for ya. (While trying NTr)

 

[Carpfoon]

You are setting the bar for 1 extremely low.

Rankings are subjective for a reason. There is no universal standard on something that is purely opinion based. A mechanic doing a "poor" job on your car has nothing to do with storytelling. The analogy doesn't work on subjective points.

I disagree. People knew from the start that Est wouldn't be the MC

Many comments before you contradict your statement.

Frey wasn't an original member of the team, Est was. But Daru doesn't even care about clearing up the misunderstanding until it's too late reunite the childhood friends. Moreover, Athena will never know that there was a misunderstanding.

He literally cleared it with Est. There has only been 28 chapters so far, and you expect everything to be "cleared" up? Give it some time. And if it never does, who cares? Is the entire story's rating based on 1 single misunderstanding that was never cleared? Seems like you focus more on hurt feelings more than the adventure.

No, the characters don't develop, they just change for plot reasons to get to a "happy ending" where everything the banishing party did wrong is forgiven.

That, is called character development.

From the start it doesn't make sense to call Daru good or bad because he's not a real person but a fictional character.

Then the entire story doesn't matter yet people are getting so upset over it. Hmm...

The girl he loves kicked him out of the party in the cruelest way with the reason that he is weak.

Were her intentions not explained by the author literally like the next chapter? Have you never had a real life scenario where you were painted as the bad guy because your "good" intentions lead to mistakes and people tend to judge based others on their actions but themselves by their intentions? Same situation here.

Not it doesn't. The plot isn't a counter perspective (which everyone expected).

It does. Name me 5 on-going manga that are translated that has the trope of banishment but the perspective is focused on the party and not the banished individual. Go on.

Furthermore, your 3 bullet points psychoanalyzing Daru and Athena seems to be bottom of the barrel attempts on making it NTR. Maybe it's really just not that deep. Maybe it's really not that serious. Being so critical over small details either prove that 1) the author is actually a good writer to make these small details notable for readers to see 2) you have confirmation bias. You thought of a obscure random point in your head and are looking for any morsel in which to "prove" you are correct.

 

[Puck2]

Rankings are subjective for a reason. There is no universal standard on something that is purely opinion based. A mechanic doing a "poor" job on your car has nothing to do with storytelling. The analogy doesn't work on subjective points.

The point was that the other person stated that you can't criticize a story if you aren't a writer yourself. So it works.

Many comments before you contradict your statement.

Apart from single statements what most people criticized was Daru being the MC and Est being (even if he isn't the MC) the only character you can sympathize with because Daru is so unlikeable.

He literally cleared it with Est. There has only been 28 chapters so far, and you expect everything to be "cleared" up? Give it some time. And if it never does, who cares? Is the entire story's rating based on 1 single misunderstanding that was never cleared? Seems like you focus more on hurt feelings more than the adventure.

As I stated again and again: too late. Moreover, to this point, Athena has no idea what happened (an probably never will). The characters behaving like idiots all the time is a major flaw of this manga.
I don't really get where you see an adventure in this manga. First there were a lot of misunderstandings and drama, a little bit of "training" and then on fight against a demon.

That, is called character development.

No it isn't. Character development means that you give a character a certain background, knowledge and character traits. From this point the characters should make decisions based on their personality etc. If a character acts according to knowledge he doesn't have and changes his personality to fit a certain scene it's not character development but bad writing.

Then the entire story doesn't matter yet people are getting so upset over it. Hmm...

Because the author tried really hard to portray him as the good guy but his actions are contradictory to that.

Were her intentions not explained by the author literally like the next chapter? Have you never had a real life scenario where you were painted as the bad guy because your "good" intentions lead to mistakes and people tend to judge based others on their actions but themselves by their intentions? Same situation here.

What I stated was that Est's actions and behaviour are understandable regarding how he was treated by her not that she had bad intentions. You make the same mistake like the author here because you don't differentiate between the different points of view. Est doesn't know the real reason why she kicked him out (later he understands it because of ... plot reasons).
What I don't like about Athena in this manga is that she portrayed as the victim here. She pushes her best friend away to "save his life", plays the part of the villainess to make it "easier" for him to start a new life, risks her career because she's weak without him and in the end she even gets insulted by him though she did everything "just for him" (in reality she rather stupid, forgets about him pretty fast and never even tries to understand his feelings).

It does. Name me 5 on-going manga that are translated that has the trope of banishment but the perspective is focused on the party and not the banished individual. Go on.

What kind of reasoning is this?! It's like saying: "'insert any manga' is a counter perspective to the typical banishment trope. Name me 5 on-going manga that are translated that has the trope of banishment but the perspective is focused on the party and not the banished individual. Go on."
So as long as I don't find 5 manga, every other manga is a counter perspective?
Maybe the author really intended to make such a manga but he got lost pretty fast and turned it into another MC power fantasy who happens to be a member of the banishing party. He was already OP before and the party is still weak.

Furthermore, your 3 bullet points psychoanalyzing Daru and Athena seems to be bottom of the barrel attempts on making it NTR. Maybe it's really just not that deep. Maybe it's really not that serious. Being so critical over small details either prove that 1) the author is actually a good writer to make these small details notable for readers to see 2) you have confirmation bias. You thought of a obscure random point in your head and are looking for any morsel in which to "prove" you are correct.

The scenes are not very subtle. Lying on a girl thinking that she's cute or a shopping date with lanterns in the night sky (typical setting in manga) are no small details. It's quite obvious what the mangaka tried to do except you intentionally close your eyes really really hard. It's no good writing.

The concept for a counter perspective is not very hard. Take a strong party, kick out the party member who actually made the party this strong and show how the party becomes stronger again. Even tough I personally know no manga which had this concept (that's why I had high expectations for this manga) there are at least some which had a likable banishing party (like The impregnable demon king's castle).
What the author did: kick out the party member, leave him in the manga and make him be in love with the party leader, create some misunderstandings to raise grudge, a lot of unnecessary drama with no benefit for the story (more like a soap opera) and a little bit of training with no results, because in the end MC beats enemy alone while everybody's watching (even OP banished person).

 

[lagua123]

i expected too much from japanese manga
maybe i should stick with porn game like kyonyuu fantasy or evenicle or any hrpgm
it has more decent story than whatever this dinggus makes with his ntr fetish,probably being cucked so he took revenge by making shitty novel

 

[Spookyghostking]

I have read many worse manga that are a lot higher rated. I think this one gets more hate than it deserves. I was surprised, it's not THAT bad.

 

[Carpfoon]

The point was that the other person stated that you can't criticize a story if you aren't a writer yourself. So it works.

You mentioned that "if a mechanic does a poor job I will complain" when I am saying "how on earth do you know they did a poor job if you know nothing about cars? If one knows nothing about writing how can they complain about "bad writing"?

I never said "you can't criticize a story if you aren't a writer yourself", I said "People are so unnecessarily critical of "bad writing" when they haven't written a single story in their lives."
There is a difference.

Apart from single statements what most people criticized was Daru being the MC and Est being (even if he isn't the MC) the only character you can sympathize with because Daru is so unlikeable.

??? You were saying "People knew from the start that Est wouldn't be the MC" and I said there were a lot of comments that showed they DID NOT know. Has nothing to do with sympathizing with who or criticizing who.

As I stated again and again: too late. Moreover, to this point, Athena has no idea what happened (an probably never will). The characters behaving like idiots all the time is a major flaw of this manga.

...Then it no longer matters no? It seems like you along with everyone else is still stuck on "being cucked" rather than... you know, enjoying the rest of the story? They are also quite young... I don't expect them to act "smart". There also is no requirement for a closure. We don't see any other perspectives because clearly it's focusing on Daru's POV. Would you be satisfied if it went into everyone's POV and fleshed out their thoughts and feelings? Because even then someone will complain and say the manga is too boring or way too detailed and unnecessary, etc etc. There's always something to complain about.

No it isn't. Character development means that you give a character a certain background, knowledge and character traits. From this point the characters should make decisions based on their personality etc. If a character acts according to knowledge he doesn't have and changes his personality to fit a certain scene it's not character development but bad writing.

Daru had unknown background and seemed like a side character compared to athena until he fought the demon- and now we even know his previous party's story with the new chapter. Idk how else you can refute this as character development.
He was literally a drunk depressed guy until Athena invited him to the party. There are multiple panels of this. His character literally changed and developed due to the party. The fight with the demon further showed us this. There can be both positive and negative character development. Est's character had the pitiful turn into negative powerful turn into neutral understanding due to him knowing it was for his sake. (Chapter 27 page 8). This is literally character development that you are doubling down and refuting twice now. Athena getting drunk in the LITERAL SECOND CHAPTER and realizing "it was I who needed Est, and not Est who needed me" is character development.

Because the author tried really hard to portray him as the good guy but his actions are contradictory to that.

Daru's actions were not contradictory. If you re-read JUST the 1st chapter, he literally thought of Est to just take the money that Est earned, but Est was so angry and turned it down. After Est left, Daru was like "damn what a thing to say to him" (pg 14) after Athena was the one who said all those harsh things to his face. Daru even agreed it was harsh. After that, he was the FIRST ONE who said "now we can keep est from dying". Not athena, not anyone else. A few pages later (ch 1 pg 18) he even said "est might breakthough" when athena brought brought the idea to kick Est for his own safety. Daru wasn't even on board with the idea and had hope Est would get stronger. He was never portrayed as the bad guy. At this point I don't think you even read the manga. I can provide many many more examples of where Daru was NEVER "portrayed" as a good guy. He simply is. YOU are the one portraying him as the bad guy.

What I stated was that Est's actions and behavior are understandable regarding how he was treated by her not that she had bad intentions.

No. What you said was "but they didn't even try to explain the real reason for his banishment (neither before, nor after)."
Everything you said before that statement was literally just a summary of the chapters we all read. We did not need a recap. Your statement here was the insert of your actual point of being dissatisfied with that. If they explained it to him before... then the entire banishment scene would be needless no? The point was to literally create the usual banishment SCENE.

And if they DIDN'T NEED TO explain it after. They literally showed character development for Est when the demon showed up and Athena was in trouble. When he got to the cave he literally said to the injured Athena "it was for me wasn't it".
He realized it on his own. His behavior being "understandable" does not make it acceptable. Also re-read chapter 6. I don't think anyone can agree with his behavior being remotely close to understandable.

What kind of reasoning is this?! It's like saying: "'insert any manga' is a counter perspective to the typical banishment trope. Name me 5 on-going manga that are translated that has the trope of banishment but the perspective is focused on the party and not the banished individual. Go on."
So as long as I don't find 5 manga, every other manga is a counter perspective?

I said "It shows a realistic counter perspective to the over-saturated "kicked from my party" manga."

You said "No it doesn't...."

Here I replied "name me even 5 manga that show POV of banisher not banished person..." BECAUSE you refuted my point of this manga being different and not part of the over-saturation of banishment trope. I'm saying it puts a new spin on it, hence why I said "find me 5 other similar POVs" since you really seem to think it's the same as the usual banishment trope.

You THEN SAID in the same sentence "...the plot isn't a counter perspective (which everyone expected)."

... The manga's name is literally "The Story Of The Banisher Side"

The scenes are not very subtle. Lying on a girl thinking that she's cute or a shopping date with lanterns in the night sky (typical setting in manga) are no small details. It's quite obvious what the mangaka tried to do except you intentionally close your eyes really really hard. It's no good writing.

... you are doing what everyone else is doing, putting yourself in Est's shoes.

Chapter 2 page 27 BEFORE the misunderstanding scene, Daru THINKS TO HIMSELF "And I was cheering him on so I didn't say anything". The author is SHOWING US Daru has NO feelings for Athena and was ROOTING for Est to be with her. In the scene of Daru on top of Athena, he LITERALLY says "What was I even thinking about a 15 year old kid". Again, a slip of the moment.

The scene Est saw was NOT in the bedroom. They were in the KITCHEN/DINING ROOM. Him misunderstanding was 100% Est's fault. Check page 30-37 of chapter 2.

They went shopping... because they almost ran out of food. (chapter 11 page 6). Daru saw how hard Athena was training in page 4/5, and THEN saw her mood of still being too focused on training during the shopping (page 9), WHICH IS WHY, the shopping trip turned into a more fun event to TAKE HER MIND OFF OF BEING WEAK. Page 7 Chapter 12 HE SAYS "did I manage to lighten your mood a bit?". Again, this shows his intention, of trying to help her RELAX.

Seriously, re-read the rest of the chapter before making yourself look dumb. What small details? What is the mangaka trying to imply? Literally nothing. It was a relaxing scene. YOU are making it more than it is.

The concept for a counter perspective is not very hard.

Says who? Are you a writer? Is this your book? Why not write your own then? Just because you don't agree with the plot here doesn't mean the manga is bad.

 

[Kortez]

That's it. Im dropping this. Just sneak a peek at raw and... I decided to drop it here.

Damn it.....it's going to go down exactly how we all imagine it isn't it?

 

[Puck2]

You mentioned that "if a mechanic does a poor job I will complain" when I am saying "how on earth do you know they did a poor job if you know nothing about cars? If one knows nothing about writing how can they complain about "bad writing"?

I never said "you can't criticize a story if you aren't a writer yourself", I said "People are so unnecessarily critical of "bad writing" when they haven't written a single story in their lives."
There is a difference.

If my car makes strange noises I know that something is not okay even if I don't know anything about motors.
If I read a story and it's illogical and bad I can criticize it even without knowing anything about the writing process because I've read a lot of good (and bad) stories and thus can compare them.

??? You were saying "People knew from the start that Est wouldn't be the MC" and I said there were a lot of comments that showed they DID NOT know. Has nothing to do with sympathizing with who or criticizing who.

There were some comments, moreover, sometimes from the same person. Can you show me evidence that all the people who gave a low rating didn't know that a story about the banisher side wouldn't be about the banished person? I think there are plenty of comments from many people who rightfully criticized the weak points of the story, who you ignored because it doesn't fit your narrative.

...Then it no longer matters no? It seems like you along with everyone else is still stuck on "being cucked" rather than... you know, enjoying the rest of the story? They are also quite young... I don't expect them to act "smart". There also is no requirement for a closure.

You really don't get why this misunderstanding had a major impact on their lives? Daru isn't young, so he should act more mature. Of course there's no need for a closure but it would improve the story.

We don't see any other perspectives because clearly it's focusing on Daru's POV. Would you be satisfied if it went into everyone's POV and fleshed out their thoughts and feelings? Because even then someone will complain and say the manga is too boring or way too detailed and unnecessary, etc etc. There's always something to complain about.

That's my point. It isn't about the banishing party, it's about Daru. You actually mentioned the point that would made the story a lot better. But it seems you prefer the story to be a short Daru power fantasy.

Daru had unknown background and seemed like a side character compared to athena until he fought the demon- and now we even know his previous party's story with the new chapter. Idk how else you can refute this as character development.
He was literally a drunk depressed guy until Athena invited him to the party. There are multiple panels of this. His character literally changed and developed due to the party. The fight with the demon further showed us this. There can be both positive and negative character development. Est's character had the pitiful turn into negative powerful turn into neutral understanding due to him knowing it was for his sake. (Chapter 27 page 8). This is literally character development that you are doubling down and refuting twice now. Athena getting drunk in the LITERAL SECOND CHAPTER and realizing "it was I who needed Est, and not Est who needed me" is character development.

You still don't get what character development means because you confuse development with change. Est doesn't develop, he changes to fit the different parts of the story. It's no natural development due to his character and the events in the story.

At this point I don't think you even read the manga. I can provide many many more examples of where Daru was NEVER "portrayed" as a good guy. He simply is. YOU are the one portraying him as the bad guy.

At this point I don't think you even read my comments (btw. I clearly stated that it was Athena who treated him badly, don't know why you had to put it in bold letters again). The scenes I criticized were all after kicking him out. Moreover, I didn't say that he is a bad guy but rather contradictory to his "good" intentions most of his actions/not-actions are bad for Est. That wasn't his intention but the author's to keep Est away from the party, which makes Daru appear pretty ignorant to Est's problems.

No. What you said was "but they didn't even try to explain the real reason for his banishment (neither before, nor after)."
Everything you said before that statement was literally just a summary of the chapters we all read. We did not need a recap. Your statement here was the insert of your actual point of being dissatisfied with that. If they explained it to him before... then the entire banishment scene would be needless no? The point was to literally create the usual banishment SCENE.

And if they DIDN'T NEED TO explain it after. They literally showed character development for Est when the demon showed up and Athena was in trouble. When he got to the cave he literally said to the injured Athena "it was for me wasn't it".
He realized it on his own. His behavior being "understandable" does not make it acceptable. Also re-read chapter 6. I don't think anyone can agree with his behavior being remotely close to understandable.

I thought you needed a recap because you seem to read and focus only the parts of the story that fit your narrative and make this story the best ever written in human history. Many people see it in another way. I really don't care about this manga because it's just some soap opera in an fantasy-setting with a lot of unnecessary drama and little story. Of course you can leave everything out and make it that the characters find out everything on their own because they "develop" (even if they don't), but if you do that and make the readers do all the work (filling all the gaps and correcting the failures in the story) it's just bad writing.
You still don't get perspectives. Athena says: "You are weak, get out of the party" (reader knows of her good intentions, Est doesn't). Acceptable. Est says: "You are weak without me". Bad guy? Naturally he held a grudge in this scene. Of course, he's a bit over-dramatic but his grudge is understandable. Reaction Daru: "You still don't get it?" How the hell should he have come to this conclusion at this point of the story?! Did you see any side story where he could have learnt from their good intentions? A letter or any try to get in contact for him? Any scene where he saw Athena and saw that she was "devastated" herself? Me neither.

I said "It shows a realistic counter perspective to the over-saturated "kicked from my party" manga."

You said "No it doesn't...."

Here I replied "name me even 5 manga that show POV of banisher not banished person..." BECAUSE you refuted my point of this manga being different and not part of the over-saturation of banishment trope. I'm saying it puts a new spin on it, hence why I said "find me 5 other similar POVs" since you really seem to think it's the same as the usual banishment trope.

You THEN SAID in the same sentence "...the plot isn't a counter perspective (which everyone expected)."

... The manga's name is literally "The Story Of The Banisher Side"

Again, did you really read my comment. At no point did I mention that it's the typical banishment trope. I just said that it is not a counter-perspective. It's not about the banisher side (I could also write a story named "About Australia" and then just write about Asia), it's mostly just about Daru. In your last comment you said yourself that the focus is on Daru's POV. It isn't about the banisher side, it's just about Daru who incidentally happens to be in the banishing party. The party barely progresses, Daru just reveals his power and saves the day.

... you are doing what everyone else is doing, putting yourself in Est's shoes.

Chapter 2 page 27 BEFORE the misunderstanding scene, Daru THINKS TO HIMSELF "And I was cheering him on so I didn't say anything". The author is SHOWING US Daru has NO feelings for Athena and was ROOTING for Est to be with her. In the scene of Daru on top of Athena, he LITERALLY says "What was I even thinking about a 15 year old kid". Again, a slip of the moment.

The scene Est saw was NOT in the bedroom. They were in the KITCHEN/DINING ROOM. Him misunderstanding was 100% Est's fault. Check page 30-37 of chapter 2.

They went shopping... because they almost ran out of food. (chapter 11 page 6). Daru saw how hard Athena was training in page 4/5, and THEN saw her mood of still being too focused on training during the shopping (page 9), WHICH IS WHY, the shopping trip turned into a more fun event to TAKE HER MIND OFF OF BEING WEAK. Page 7 Chapter 12 HE SAYS "did I manage to lighten your mood a bit?". Again, this shows his intention, of trying to help her RELAX.

Seriously, re-read the rest of the chapter before making yourself look dumb. What small details? What is the mangaka trying to imply? Literally nothing. It was a relaxing scene. YOU are making it more than it is.

Seriously, you don't ask yourself why Daru's thoughts are even shown if they are not important (better waste panels with such things instead of important thoughts of other character which people could find boring, right?), why Frey has to offer her virginity and ignore all the features typical in mangas to show a upcoming romance? Couldn't it be that the author played with these things to get the readers used to a probable romance? How do you know what the authors idea was? We'll never know because the manga got axed. The implications are there. But I'm sure you are one of the few enlightened geniuses who know how to understand the story correctly as you are qualified to call other people dumb (always a sign of premium argumentative skills).

Spoiler

I think (and probably many other readers), what the writer tried to do was to set a stage for a romance in a following arc (which never appeared because even his webnovel and lightnovel were perceived bad). Subconsciously, Daru has feelings for Athena, partly because she's the spitting image of his ex-girlfriend and she "saved" him. But he suppresses his feelings because of his reason and regarding for Est's feelings. Luckily, Est lost his feelings for Athena for some reason (they alienated because of his reluctance to clear up the misunderstanding) and will disappear at the end because Daru's party leaves the place and Athena follows Daru.

Says who? Are you a writer? Is this your book? Why not write your own then? Just because you don't agree with the plot here doesn't mean the manga is bad.

Again the same argument? Didn't you say:

I never said "you can't criticize a story if you aren't a writer yourself"

Even if I'm not a writer I still have read a lot of books/mangas/stories etc. Of course I can say that a manga is bad if I think that a manga is bad. Last time I checked it was still allowed to express one's opinion as long as I don't hurt anybody.
This manga is illogical, it has no depth, the author created too many problems which he couldn't solve satisfyingly till the end and the implementation of the "counter-perspective" was the worst.
There are for sure worse stories who are rated better but that doesn't change my opinion that this is a bad one.

 

[JacekJJ]

I made an account to give this novel one star. puck is right, this novel is trash