Tsuihou Suru Gawa no Monogatari

[Carpfoon]

Accidental reply, check below

 

[Carpfoon]

If my car makes strange noises I know that something is not okay even if I don't know anything about motors.

That how to know if your car is broken or has something wrong with it, not if your mechanic did a bad/good job. You failed your analogy again.

If I read a story and it's illogical and bad I can criticize it even without knowing anything about the writing process because I've read a lot of good (and bad) stories and thus can compare them.

And yet the same stories you think are bad or illogical to you, are great to others. Is it that surprising that again, my point being that ratings are subjective? The same movies that get clowned on for being "bad" also has it's own fanbase that love it. Same goes with the stories. Is only your opinion valid and everyone else's is trash? check yourself.

There were some comments, moreover, sometimes from the same person. Can you show me evidence that all the people who gave a low rating didn't know that a story about the banisher side wouldn't be about the banished person?

• "Japanise writers do not do even small effort to make original story, they just copy pasting “banished mc” over and over" Page 4 JapanesePonPon (person missing point that it's NOT the same copy paste, it's a twist and spin off)
• " they actually thought we readers would side with the "old man adventurer" (KazumaKazuma Page 2 of comments) person here who proves my point that they are self inserting as Est and DID NOT read the title of the manga. The POV is not focusing on Est. They clearly did not understand this is on the banisher's POV.
• Heck even YOUR OWN COMMENT on page 2 "Seems like some readers and the author expect the good guys to be submissive and endure everything" ... You painted Est as the "good guy" not realizing the story being the twist on said trope, makes him the bad guy regardless if you like it or not.

Stop being lazy. I have more evidence but clearly you're going to reply with some nonsensical bs about how this isn't the "evidence" you're looking for. Some bs about "yeah you definitely interpreted that wrong"... almost like how you interpreted the entire manga's premise wrong yourself.

I think there are plenty of comments from many people who rightfully criticized the weak points of the story, who you ignored because it doesn't fit your narrative.

No, they wished harm on the author and had nothing intelligent to say about why they think the story is actually bad.
The comments that actually expressed their opinion on why the manga is bad, again, is self inserting themselves in Est's shoes and giving it a much lower score than this manga deserves. The amount of "NTR" comments literally prove that they have no idea what they are talking about. Quite literally nothing of that level has happened between Daru and Athena that can be considered as such.
"Turns out people have a better sense than to read trash like this. It's just awful garbage and I wish the group translating it would put valuable effort they're wasting on this into a better title."
"Author you should KYS" (page 5 of comments)
"Hope the Author losses his arms." (page 1 of comments)

You really don't get why this misunderstanding had a major impact on their lives? Daru isn't young, so he should act more mature. Of course there's no need for a closure but it would improve the story.

That's how YOU think he should act. Are you the author? Have you never met a grown adult IRL? Because this thread is full of them.

That's my point. It isn't about the banishing party, it's about Daru. You actually mentioned the point that would made the story a lot better. But it seems you prefer the story to be a short Daru power fantasy.

Again, what YOU think I want. The story painting Daru as the second MC and having it told from his POV does NOT make it about him. There are many chapters where he is in the background. It IS about the party. And again, the story may be better for you, but like I said, still people would complain and say "the manga has no direction and it;s trying to do too much by giving everyone's POV". Always some complaint no matter what.

You still don't get what character development means because you confuse development with change. Est doesn't develop, he changes to fit the different parts of the story. It's no natural development due to his character and the events in the story.

My guy. A character changing is his/her development. The realness of it showing how misunderstandings come to be, learning from mistakes, change of attitude and perspective due to circumstance and events, IS CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT.

I'm truly amazed at your ability to be so confidently incorrect.

At this point I don't think you even read my comments (btw. I clearly stated that it was Athena who treated him badly, don't know why you had to put it in bold letters again). The scenes I criticized were all after kicking him out. Moreover, I didn't say that he is a bad guy but rather contradictory to his "good" intentions most of his actions/not-actions are bad for Est.

You heavily focused on the wrongdoings to Est trying to somehow justify his behavior. There is no point to argue about morality here. They did what they did and they reacted how they reacted. Again going back to your own original point, they are fictional characters. And like I replied, it doesn't matter that much. It doesn't prove your point as to WHY the storytelling is bad, why the manga deserves anything more than 1/2 stars. It's just a morality debate that can go on forever.

I thought you needed a recap because you seem to read and focus only the parts of the story that fit your narrative and make this story the best ever written in human history.

Proof of you self inserting into what YOU think I think. I gave the manga a 7 star review in my 1st comment. Don't gaslight me.

Many people see it in another way. I really don't care about this manga because it's just some soap opera in an fantasy-setting

then stop talking about it. If something is not enjoyable or objectively bad, people usually stop coming back. I think it's decent which is why I come back. You are contradicting yourself. You only want to push YOUR narrative and anyone else's who does not match is "wrong", which is the only reason why you would ever come back. In what world does someone keep going back to the same movie that they say they hate over and over? You don't hate the movie, you hate how others don't hate it.

You still don't get perspectives. Athena says: "You are weak, get out of the party" (reader knows of her good intentions, Est doesn't). Acceptable. Est says: "You are weak without me". Bad guy? Naturally he held a grudge in this scene. Of course, he's a bit over-dramatic but his grudge is understandable.

yikes... you literally just revoked your own point. "Naturally he held a grudge in this scene. Of course, he's a bit over-dramatic but his grudge is understandable. "...... Yes. that is why "bad guy". The readers know he's the bad guy PRECISELY because of his facial expression and public humiliation in that scene. To argue against that and give Est the benefit of the doubt is proof that you are either self inserting as Est and still desperately hope him to be the good guy, or you simply just don't understand the anti-trope.

Again, did you really read my comment. At no point did I mention that it's the typical banishment trope. I just said that it is not a counter-perspective. It's not about the banisher side

I never said you said it's the typical trope. And it is about the banisher's side... just because the story takes the POV of Daru mostly, there are literally chapters where he is in the background or non existent. If it was only about him, we wouldn't see how Est had an effect on the rest of the group's mental state and actual party physical prowess in those dungeons. It's literally about everyone in the banisher side.

How do you know what the authors idea was? ............... <inside spoler> I think (and probably many other readers), what the writer tried to do was....

?????? Are you not doing exactly what you accuse me of doing ?????????????????????????????????????

Again the same argument? Didn't you say: "I never said "you can't criticize a story if you aren't a writer yourself"

Yes I did.

• You said: "The concept for a counter perspective is not very hard."
• I said : Says who? Are you a writer? Is this your book? Why not write your own then? Just because you don't agree with the plot here doesn't mean the manga is bad.

That comment you wrote was enforcing YOUR expectations on what you think the author should be "capable" of writing. That is very different from criticizing the story itself. I followed up saying the difficulty of a writing counter POV is subjective and has nothing to prove that the author/story is "good" or "bad."
Counter POV is ez= so this means this manga bad???????????????????

make it make sense.

 

[Puck2]

And yet the same stories you think are bad or illogical to you, are great to others. Is it that surprising that again, my point being that ratings are subjective? The same movies that get clowned on for being "bad" also has it's own fanbase that love it. Same goes with the stories. Is only your opinion valid and everyone else's is trash? check yourself.

Yes, ratings are subjective. Most readers think the story is bad thus rated it low. You are the one that saying that everyone is stupid because they don't understand the story. Check yourself.

• " they actually thought we readers would side with the "old man adventurer" (KazumaKazuma Page 2 of comments) person here who proves my point that they are self inserting as Est and DID NOT read the title of the manga. The POV is not focusing on Est. They clearly did not understand this is on the banisher's POV.
• Heck even YOUR OWN COMMENT on page 2 "Seems like some readers and the author expect the good guys to be submissive and endure everything" ... You painted Est as the "good guy" not realizing the story being the twist on said trope, makes him the bad guy regardless if you like it or not.

Could it be that you have problems understanding the English language? It wasn't that nobody understood that the story wasn't about Est but that nobody saw any logic in treating him like an evil person (the same thing you did). After banishing him there was no need to make him the bad person (especially as he is not the enemy in the story), and again, his grudge was understandable at that moment.

No, they wished harm on the author and had nothing intelligent to say about why they think the story is actually bad.
The comments that actually expressed their opinion on why the manga is bad, again, is self inserting themselves in Est's shoes and giving it a much lower score than this manga deserves. The amount of "NTR" comments literally prove that they have no idea what they are talking about. Quite literally nothing of that level has happened between Daru and Athena that can be considered as such.
"Turns out people have a better sense than to read trash like this. It's just awful garbage and I wish the group translating it would put valuable effort they're wasting on this into a better title."
"Author you should KYS" (page 5 of comments)
"Hope the Author losses his arms." (page 1 of comments)

Pointing out that the story has NTR vibes has nothing to do with wishing harm to the author. The comments wishing harm were clearly the minority. But you seem the be as selective at reading comments as you are with reading the story.

 

[Puck2]

Again, what YOU think I want. The story painting Daru as the second MC and having it told from his POV does NOT make it about him. There are many chapters where he is in the background. It IS about the party. And again, the story may be better for you, but like I said, still people would complain and say "the manga has no direction and it;s trying to do too much by giving everyone's POV". Always some complaint no matter what.

Yeah, because in other power fantasies the MC is always in every chapter. I just mentioned what what in my opinion could have made the story enjoyable for more people than you.

It doesn't prove your point as to WHY the storytelling is bad, why the manga deserves anything more than 1/2 stars. It's just a morality debate that can go on forever.

Trying to make the victim in the story the bad guy is bad writing in my opinion.

then stop talking about it. If something is not enjoyable or objectively bad, people usually stop coming back. I think it's decent which is why I come back. You are contradicting yourself. You only want to push YOUR narrative and anyone else's who does not match is "wrong", which is the only reason why you would ever come back. In what world does someone keep going back to the same movie that they say they hate over and over? You don't hate the movie, you hate how others don't hate it.

Do you like to live in your bubble. If people react to my posts I go to the thread and read what's new and answer to new posts. It's called socialising (btw. I don't become aggressive if people if people don't share my opinion, which is subjective).

yikes... you literally just revoked your own point. "Naturally he held a grudge in this scene. Of course, he's a bit over-dramatic but his grudge is understandable. "...... Yes. that is why "bad guy". The readers know he's the bad guy PRECISELY because of his facial expression and public humiliation in that scene. To argue against that and give Est the benefit of the doubt is proof that you are either self inserting as Est and still desperately hope him to be the good guy, or you simply just don't understand the anti-trope.

How did you come to this conclusion? Being over-dramatic and looking gloomy after you've been treated badly doesn't make you a bad person (more the people that got you to this point). It's not self inserting, it's empathy-

I never said you said it's the typical trope. And it is about the banisher's side... just because the story takes the POV of Daru mostly, there are literally chapters where he is in the background or non existent. If it was only about him, we wouldn't see how Est had an effect on the rest of the group's mental state and actual party physical prowess in those dungeons. It's literally about everyone in the banisher side.

That's exactly what you said.
For the rest, see above.

?????? Are you not doing exactly what you accuse me of doing ?????????????????????????????????????

I always say that it's my opinion. You keep on ranting that all the other people are stupid because your interpretation is the only right one.

Yes I did.

• You said: "The concept for a counter perspective is not very hard."
• I said : Says who? Are you a writer? Is this your book? Why not write your own then? Just because you don't agree with the plot here doesn't mean the manga is bad.

That comment you wrote was enforcing YOUR expectations on what you think the author should be "capable" of writing. That is very different from criticizing the story itself. I followed up saying the difficulty of a writing counter POV is subjective and has nothing to prove that the author/story is "good" or "bad."
Counter POV is ez= so this means this manga bad???????????????????

make it make sense.

The concept itself isn't hard (I already stated the premise).
I expect a good writer to write a story where I can actually root for the banishing party because I have the feeling it's the right thing to do. This is something that the author didn't achieve because the banishing party appear like hypocrites most of the time. It's not an easy task, but as a good writer you should manage. Regarding the ratings (not just the manga but also the webnovel and lightnovel) the author didn't.

At this point, I don't think it doesn't make any sense to discuss with you any further because we're going in circles, because you keep misunderstanding my comments and I have to repeat everything again and again and again. Furthermore, you become more and more aggressive with every comment (actually you should understand Est pretty well), which is a clear sign to stop at this point.

 

[GD189]

TLDR: not bad, actually decent. If you can't bother to fully read my sparknotes version of it, you most likely didn't read past the 1st chapter and made an assumption based on what you read in chapter 1.

It's NOT THAT BAD. 4/10. People are so unnecessarily critical of "bad writing" when they haven't written a single story in their lives. People forget that 1 is the lowest score possible here, in which case I consider a blank manga to be a 1 - there is literally no content. Everyone jumping on the bandwagon and giving this a 1 because they think this manga "deserves it" and starts insulting the author because they probably sold their souls to the devil and have nothing but hate in their hearts. Relax.

EDIT: (spoliers): previous edit was made after reading halfway, and now after reading to the latest 28 chapters, I'd say this actually good manga is a 7/10. People seem to think that Est is the MC- he is not. Immediately after reading the 1st chapter, everyone started to assume everything. The manga literally focuses 90% on the original party that kicked him out. It shows a realistic counter perspective to the over-saturated "kicked from my party" manga. It shows how while yes, the "hero" that was kicked out, does get super strong with some ability, and yes, the party gets weaker- AND then the story goes into depth about each of the character's flaws.

Daru literally brought the team back together. Frey and Athena learned how to coordinate and work together. Daru was "holding back" due to the fact that he was in a previous party in which someone he really cared about died. The manga literally shows character development in each of them. Mirialia herself was holding back because she was happy just seeing Athena happy. But after Daru's involvement and the demon showing up, Daru's advice brought her strength out to actually do some shit to protect people she care about. Now only that, he made "evil Est" realize that they wanted to keep him safe rather than anything. Est finally realizes and no "revenge" happens, but instead his own character develops further.

Daru did NOT cuck Est. Stop getting your feelings hurt on behalf of a fictional character. Daru literally had to pick up this drunk ass girl and put her in bed. He noticed she was pretty but IMMEDIATELY thought "bruh I'm like 20, nah bruh". That was literally it.
Est literally has a fcking meltdown saying " I will show them how useful I am" and chapters later when the party literally gets stronger again with Daru's guidance, he says "why are they not pleading me to join back" with an expression on his face saying "y'all ain't shit without me, wth happened". Est is quite literally "white savior syndrome", and most of y'all got cucked from that so you start hating on this manga. Daru took Athena out on a "date" to clear her mind. Bro had literally 0 intention of romance. Guy is literally the mature adult here telling Athena to take a chill pill and relax.

If people actually read past chapter 5, it actually slowly explains and shows everything.

So he didn't help the weakest person on the party who was the support and so they kicked him out.
Then the female lead became the weakest and suddenly Daru starts teaching her how to get stronger.
Starts having feelings for her while she is drunk( she is 15) while before that he was acting as if he wanted to help the childhood friends get together.

He tried from the start to kick the boy the female lead liked and to bag her because she looks like the girl he liked but couldn't save because he was WEAK.

This had a lot of potential but to end with the old man cucking the male lead and bagging the 15 year old shouldn't ever be considered good.

Overall NTR story with pedophilia and harem tags is the only way this story can be described.

 

[GD189]

Best way to describe this shit is an NTR story with pedophilia and harem tags. Waste of time to read it.

 

[SugoiNe1]

The author better apologize to me after this. Just why? why this manga feels like reading NTR hentai, i never be this disappointed reading trash japanese manga/hentai. The amount of criticism so wild, long and detailed that is look's like I'm reading some research paper about drug addiction or something. Damn

 

[luk91]

I understand the low rating, but I like this manga. It didn't become an endless slop-fest, and solved all misunderstandings without going back to the beginning or a "perfect" ending

 

[wolxlua]

thanks Haikai Scans. ya the story is kinda off lol

 

[ZoronCraft]

I understand the low rating, but I like this manga. It didn't become an endless slop-fest, and solved all misunderstandings without going back to the beginning or a "perfect" ending

‘Solved all misunderstandings,’ say this to Athena, who still doesn’t know why her CF Est hated her.

 

[ZoronCraft]

On MyAnimeList, there is a review that perfectly concludes this manga

Osaitus said:
The premise is really good, the old "person gets kicked of the party because they are bad"... we all know how it works, the main character acquires OP powers and the party gets a full dosage of karma... The twist here is that the main characters are the party that kicked the person... and that is where the good of this...story?, ends

The author tries to justify the actions of the party, but fails... tries to make them victims, again fails... you will not get the power fantasy that you may search in stories like this.

Then the author finally shows what this is all about and the party gets divided in the ones that suffer (3 girls) and the great Daru, a "Mary sue" type... the general consensus is a theory that Daru got rid of Est (the guy that got kicked) se he can have a harem.

Again the premise is really good... sadly this is what came out of it.

 

[rkkn]

The premise at a very basic level is interesting, but it's very poorly done. not well thought out at all. However, it's just normal bad. It's not any worse than all those bad cliche fantasy series that are rated like 6.7 or so. The only difference between this and those is all the people who just like seeing their tropes catered to and don't care about how bad it is. They vote up shitty tropey stories and vote down equally shitty stories that subvert the tropes instead.

 

[coyote_vdb]

This manga is not very good but certainly does not deserve such a low note when you see the huge amount of trash with shitty characters, repetitive tropes, vulgar fan service and messy or absent story that still manage to go above 7 on this site.
At least it tried to do something a bit different, even though it was poorly executed.

 

[ZoronCraft]

This manga is not very good but certainly does not deserve such a low note when you see the huge amount of trash with shitty characters, repetitive tropes, vulgar fan service and messy or absent story that still manage to go above 7 on this site.
At least it tried to do something a bit different, even though it was poorly executed.

My guy, what are you talking about? Other cliché slop is often just bad or boring, but this one is broken in every aspect of the story.

 

[Dvisidor]

Waited till I read it from start to finish to give it a proper rating. This series deserves the lowest of score for having the most lackluster and safest of endings, mediocre premise without any context of world genuine building that just tossed things at the reader without explanation, and character relationships that seem to lack too many pieces that define a person to say they have any sense of real identity.

 

[VoXShiro]

Daru is just a fcking ntr guy who acting like a good guy. Don't listen to anyone who say daru is decent/good guy.. they just into ntr things

 

[Kyounshi]

Misleading and crappy story. They made it seem like it was going to be about Est after getting kicked out of his party in a shitty way, which was EASILY avoidable. It's actually about the idiot offending party and the old washed up shit stain adventurer that already let his previous party member die, and almost does it again. It's also kind of gross how the female lead is obviously pining over the much older, lower potential, inferior, washed up, scar face failure fuckboy. He also obviously likes her due to looking like his dead party member, which is gross and destined to fail. Basically, the story is full of weak, not fully fleshed out hypocritical characters that allow a massive rift to form due to extreme lack of proper communication and growth plans. They kick him out over 1 damn injury, instead of just helping him get stronger or even consulting him... like a real party would do. Don't even get me started on how annoying the elf in the party was, I wanted to punch that acid tongue midget in the face so hard her jaw dislocates, or shatters. I heavily recommend not wasting time on this absolute flaming dung heap.

 

[Puck2]

Reread the story and if you ignore the first 16 chapters the story is actually okay (it got better in the end but couldn't repair the damage made before, especially, if you read it in one go).
Way to read the story:

• Read chapter one until page 38,
• chapter 2 until page 10 and from 17 to 24,
• chapter 3 from page 8 to 11,
• chapter 4 from page 8 to 16,
• chapter 5 from page 6 to 7 and from 11 to 14 (btw. page 16 shows that Daru decided intentionally to not clear up the misunderstanding + ch.6 p.3)
• chapter 10 page 9
• chapter 12 from page 14 to 15
• chapter 13 from page 1 to 4 and 6 (bottom pictures) to 18
• chapter 14 from page 2 to 13
• chapter 15
• chapter 16 from page 1 to 6 and 13 to 18
• chapter 18 onwards

Doesn't make it the greatest story but removes some major flaws: characters being hypocrites, unnecessary misunderstanding making Est the bad guy (even though he isn't the final enemy), Daru-girl-relationship-scenes which contributed nothing to the story except for triggering/provoking readers.
It would have been preferable if Daru wasn't OP (just one of the party members, not the MC), just stalling time while Est treats teammates and the two parties defeat demon together, but unfortunately you can't change this by leaving out scenes/chapters.

PS: Thanks to Hakai Scans! Whatever one may think about the manga, you still did a great job!

 

[JohnRon]

Reread the story and if you ignore the first 16 chapters the story is actually okay (it got better in the end but couldn't repair the damage made before, especially, if you read it in one go).
Way to read the story:

• Read chapter one until page 38,
• chapter 2 until page 10 and from 17 to 24,
• chapter 3 from page 8 to 11,
• chapter 4 from page 8 to 16,
• chapter 5 from page 6 to 7 and from 11 to 14 (btw. page 16 shows that Daru decided intentionally to not clear up the misunderstanding + ch.6 p.3)
• chapter 10 page 9
• chapter 12 from page 14 to 15
• chapter 13 from page 1 to 4 and 6 (bottom pictures) to 18
• chapter 14 from page 2 to 13
• chapter 15
• chapter 16 from page 1 to 6 and 13 to 18
• chapter 18 onwards

Doesn't make it the greatest story but removes some major flaws: characters being hypocrites, unnecessary misunderstanding making Est the bad guy (even though he isn't the final enemy), Daru-girl-relationship-scenes which contributed nothing to the story except for triggering/provoking readers.
It would have been preferable if Daru wasn't OP (just one of the party members, not the MC), just stalling time while Est treats teammates and the two parties defeat demon together, but unfortunately you can't change this by leaving out scenes/chapters.

PS: Thanks to Hakai Scans! Whatever one may think about the manga, you still did a great job!

Christ, you're sad.

 

[Puck2]

Christ, you're sad.

Thanks for your concern, but I'm fine.
But seriously, creating a new account for such an "intellectual" message (4 words)?! Speaking about sad ^^