Tsuki ga Michibiku Isekai Douchuu - Ch. 54 - Errand Boy of the Fickle Goddess

[sloth_lazines]

@Ashisu no, MC is not a god level, he only has the same amount of mana as the goddess and

Spoiler

sophia vs makoto it is almost similar to naruto vs gaara where the amount of gaara chakra is smaller than naruto but can still be against naruto

@WillLi actually Makoto still wanted to train himself when he had free time but now for some reason he reduced it (read chapters 33-34)

 

[WillLi]

@sloth_lazines And that's my whole point, his lack of training makes no sense logically, it's only there so he's not prepared for things like this.

@-Sleepless- I don't know if you're dumb, or you're just not reading. I already explained this has nothing to do with him having his guard up. I don't care that he didn't have his guard up. You don't seem to realize this discussion isn't about this chapter but rather the position this character holds. The person I was discussing with mentioned that this character is a legitimate threat, whether the MC has his guard up or not, and they stated it was because the MC doesn't have fighting experience. My point is the MC -shouldn't- be lacking in fighting experience, it makes no sense.

If you have a 'rainy day fund' you're preparing for the uncertain/unknown. If you have insurance you're preparing for random things. Cars have safety features in preparation for unexpected things. Normal people prepare for the unexpected all the time. The MC preparing for this would be him actually training so that he has a proper combat mentality and skills. I am not saying he should have his guard up at all times.

And no you're right, what you're doing isn't smart. That was sarcasm, hence the '' around the word. What you're doing is stupid because you're arguing with me when you can't even grasp what I'm saying. You look like a poor excuse for a politician, the only difference is no one is actually expecting you to say anything so I don't know why you are. Either take the time to figure out what I'm actually discussing, or shut the hell up.

 

[Sheruff6]

So basically the MC put all of his stat points into ATK huh. He got no DEF at all

 

[Kanol]

@WillLi Except he has trained. Why do you think he can use magic? Do you not remember him trying out different magic elements? Remember him wiping out the demons when practicing? Him fighting monsters in the wasteland? Him wiping out bandits? Him getting geared up with dwarf armor? Or that chapter where his followers asked him specifically to stop training with a bow before his magic capacity exceeded his ring's ability to contain it? If your argument is built around "he hasn't trained" then your argument is objectively wrong.

He lacks fighting experience to deal with someone like Sophia. He needs to fight against someone like Sophia to gain that kind of experience. Expecting him to have that experience before he's gotten that experience is a catch 22.

To date no one attacked him for his outward appearance. That is not a thing. Some people see him as demi-human, but they don't randomly attack demi-humans.
"There is no danger of me being set upon by a wild boar. There is a clear apparent possibility that the MC or his people will get dragged into something violent."
It doesn't have to be a boar, it can be anything. A rando going postal. A falling beam. A bolt of lightning. A sinkhole. There was no precedent or expectation for the MC to encounter anything so dangerous to him in town.

 

[WillLi]

@Kanol "Learning magic" is not training to fight, also the archery mediation is not training. Neither of those are actual combat training. As for the rest most of that is incidents that should've caused him to get serious and -really- train. Not just wait for stuff to happen to him. He has both Mio and Tomoe right beside him. both of which he could've done actual combat training with to get the experience. It still wouldn't be Sophia, but spending time fighting them, in human and monster form should give him more than enough experience that he could deal with someone who was 'weaker' than him, even if not perfectly.

And your second paragraph, is stupid. Because this isn't about him encountering something dangerous in town. It's about him encountering something dangerous period. Which there is a precedent for. Look at what happened with those 'evil adventurers'. That and the fact that the monsters told him they get attacked pretty much indiscriminately should be enough precedent to say "Maybe I should train" or are you saying that he doesn't care to protect them, and that he only cares about himself?

All you've managed to do is say "He did train but it's not enough to stop Sophia from being a threat" by listing things that weren't actually combat training mostly, or things that he didn't initiate but others did, while ignoring the fact that pretty much every warrior in his village and even people outside, have been trained or spared significantly with Mio and/or Tomoe, or at least their super minions. To our knowledge, the MC hasn't.

The other thing you've done is essentially try to avoid the fact that the MC has been in life threatening situations, and the people he wants to protect have. By narrowing the scope down to "There's no precedent for him being attacked in town" but that's irrelevant unless he plans to never leave one town for the rest of his life and never let people into his village anymore. If either of those change, then it becomes a situation where he -has- encountered danger before, regardless of it being because of his appearance or not. He encountered Tomoe in the wild, I forgot where Mio was, and he encountered the "evil adventures" in his town. He also -has- been mistaken for a demihuman, and he knows demihuamns have been attacked without cause. Yeah it hasn't directly happened to him, but if he's in a demihuman village and villagers see him, he should believe there is zero chance they will attack him?

The MC has resources at his disposal that if he used them would've made Sophia at this point not a "serious threat", and there is really no good reason he hasn't used them up till now. And I'll make something clear. I'm not saying the MC should be absolutely badass and own everything in sight. No that's dumb. But it's also dumb to play up a character as having trained in warfare archery, show that they're diligent and serious, and then have someone show up that's a threat to them not because they're stronger, but because the MC didn't think through how he was spending his time. It would be one thing if we were shown the MC was lazy or naive and this was a turning point for him. But that's not what we have here. And that's why the danger is fake. It's like in deathmarch where the group was in 'danger' early on because the MC just didn't have all his passives active. No one woudl notice if they were on, and he had already bought them, he just kept turning them off when he wasn't using them because he felt like it. The MC is smart enough to realize the dangers, speaks about them, and even prepares -others- for the danger, but never went about really preparing himself.

 

[Kanol]

@WillLi Learning magic is absolutely training to fight. His ability to deal damage hinges on his command of magic. His ability to defend himself from magic hinges on his understanding of magic. Learning how to field-strip or fire a gun is not combat training, but it is a necessary prerequisite; Walk before you run. You mention Tomoe and Mio, but neither of them can train him. Neither can even attack him with the intent to harm due to their contract, and they were beaten by him right after he learned basic magic and before he managed to multiply his magic capacity many times over with bow training. Also keep in mind that Tomoe/Shin is not much of a fighter. Shin's was renowned for relying on her high defense and illusions and Mio was literally a mindless rampaging monster up until recently. They're both relying on brute force as much as or more than Makoto to fight.

"The other thing you've done is essentially try to avoid the fact that the MC has been in life threatening situations, and the people he wants to protect have. "
That's not something he can remedy by being stronger. That's down to his people being able to take care of themselves or support him. He can't be everywhere all the time. The evil adventurers were piddling. Not a threat to him or Asora by themselves. They were only able to cause problems because some idiot left unstable explosive magic artifacts in an unsecured location. That's an argument for better security and containment procedures, not Makoto personally getting swole. He's specifically not immediately retreating to Asora because he doesn't want Sophia following him and causing problems there if he can help it.

" Because this isn't about him encountering something dangerous in town. It's about him encountering something dangerous period. " ... while he's in town. On his way to train.
Up to this point the only things to personally endanger Makoto have been Mio and Tomoe, and both were in the wastelands where high level adventurers fear to tread. Your complaint would have merit if he had headed out into the deep wastelands of his own volition without preparation or backup, but that's not what happened.

"It's like in deathmarch where the group was in 'danger' early on because the MC just didn't have all his passives active."
Realm isn't a passive ability he can keep up at all times.

Spoiler

He comes up with a defensive magic some time after this fight to remedy exactly that vulnerability.

He also needs to make a conscious decision to switch his armor resistances.

 

[StLL]

RIP? my amazon queen

 

[-Sleepless-]

@WillLi

Your main points of discussion was:

- you felt the tension was fake

Your reasoning for it was:

- MC shouldn't have taken damage in the first place, he should have prepared so he'd be able to react to this situation because he had the opportunity to do so

I've covered your point in the second post I've made already, addressing why in the case he did do so, the outcome would have been the same.

Since you refuse to acknowledge my points, I'll stop replying from this post forward as all this discussion so far just shows you're a bit too stuck up yourself to consider that you might be wrong. I understand your point with the whole 'rainy day fund' thing, but even then, preparation has it's limits, which was what I was trying to tell you in the posts before. The main take away from this is that sparring/preparation/training doesn't exactly help MC's situation, anymore than it already has, which is mainly not losing his head or his calm.

Training also doesn't equal to being able to react appropriately in that situation either and MC's always been quite shit at close combat anyway, which is another can of worms if you choose to delve into. That and MC lacking "fighting" experience makes sense and is consistent in the story. There's been a total of two battles MC's taken part in, and they really don't help him understand the standard for a close combat battle, and there's no indication that he's done battles like so in Japan, so I don't know where you're getting this from either.

The other thing you've done is essentially try to avoid the fact that the MC has been in life threatening situations, and the people he wants to protect have. By narrowing the scope down to "There's no precedent for him being attacked in town" but that's irrelevant unless he plans to never leave one town for the rest of his life and never let people into his village anymore. If either of those change, then it becomes a situation where he -has- encountered danger before, regardless of it being because of his appearance or not. He encountered Tomoe in the wild, I forgot where Mio was, and he encountered the "evil adventures" in his town.

Only thing I haven't covered was this, but wasn't this implied earlier on? The threats targeting him, asora and it's civilians, he's making counter measures already, you could argue maybe it's not enough so I'll give you that. I can't remember if it was covered in the manga yet or not, but he's already separated the civilians from the place where asora is going to be receiving people. On top of that you mentioned that the groups inside are also training as well, which is a part of the countermeasures he's put into place.

And no you're right, what you're doing isn't smart. That was sarcasm, hence the '' around the word. What you're doing is stupid because you're arguing with me when you can't even grasp what I'm saying. You look like a poor excuse for a politician, the only difference is no one is actually expecting you to say anything so I don't know why you are. Either take the time to figure out what I'm actually discussing, or shut the hell up.

It makes you feel good doesn't it? Making out people to be less intelligent than you while you hold the high ground with a contrived point you use for criticism. The arrogance makes your face look prettier, you'd be unable to admire your reflection otherwise. But nice double standards, where you go out of your way to assert my criticism on your contrived 'discussion' yet demonstrated beforehand you don't give enough of a shit to figure out what the other person is telling you. Always helpful to start out by jabbing someone to rile them up, insults contribute so much to a civil discussion.

Nice insults though, haven't heard that one before, 6.5/10, you could focus a bit more on why I take so many words to fail to convey a point.

 

[WillLi]

@-Sleepless- I am ignoring your post, because no, I never said "MC should've never taken damage. So shut up.

@Kanol The reason I say magic training isn't helping with this is because we're talking about him having -combat experience- Learning how to field strip a gun is great but if you spend all your time learning that and never learn how to shoot it, you learned nothing for combat. It's great the MC learend more magic, but until he actual sits down and takes time to learn how to fight with it it's all just a curiosity and holds little practical value in combat.

Now as for the sparring, I'm pretty sure the contract would allow sparring as it's about intention. Also Tomoe and Mio would be great sparring partners. I'm not sure you know how sparring works for learning. The point of sparring is to practice using your skills and reacting to other people's skill so that things turn into reactions and not conscious thoughts. It's the reason a lot of traditional martial arts are totally useless in combat (especially a lot of Chinese ones) because they don't do real sparring. Now if the contract does stop him from sparring, there are Mio's underlings and others in the village. they're not as strong, but it's hundreds of times better than meditating for learning how to actually fight. Even if he just trained how fight with a bow, that would be a huge thing. Because even if he doesn't have a bow in hand, he'd still have practiced evasion and defense and that would apply. So he'd have more tools ready than he does now.

Now what you say about his people, is true, but that's not the whole of it. Yes he can't fix it completely by being stronger, but if he is stronger, then it's another piece of their defense. So if something happens and he happens to be there, especially if it's a high class threat like with Mio showed up. Your part about in town; is almost a good point, 'cept there is one problem, you're basing that on him being in town and going to train at the magic school. He hasn't always wanted to do that, he didn't always know about the teleport gates. Until -very- recently to his knowledge there would still be the possibility of encountering something strong out there, so why wasn't he training then?

My point of mentioning deathmarch was to bring up the fact that the MC has tools and resources they -could- use and there isn't a reason not to use them, but they just don't because the author doesn't want them to, and then later that comes to bite them in the ass. It's fine if they just don't use the resources and it's whatever, but it's bad writing to tell us these resources exist, then have the MC not use them for no reason and then go "Well because he doesn't use them now something bad happens." That's why it's annoying that Sophia is supposedly a real threat.

If Makoto wasn't shown to be diligent, or the author didn't keep hyping up his combat archery, I wouldn't really be annoyed. But they've set him up as the kind of person you would expect to put in the effort and would've been training this whole time. But he didn't. If Makoto was training -for fighting-, and that still wasn't enough, that would be fine too.

Look at it this way, after this fight, nothing about Makoto's character is likely to change. He might develop new techniques after it after realizing his flaws in combat, but it wont make him more serious, cause he already is, it won't make him realize the world is dangerous cause he already does, he wont suddenly decide to train, cause he's already heading to the magic school. So then what narrative is the 'purpose' of this fight? All I can see is it's purpose has nothing to actually do with the MC other than giving him a chance to meet the heroes. So the MC is randomly dragged into a dangerous fight, that holds likely little to no narrative benefit for him, that sounds like it's a fight just for the sake of a fight, and that's annoying. There isn't even anything really at risk.

 

[Kanol]

@WillLi He beat a superior dragon and a calamity spider with it, so it has at least that much practical value in combat. He's mostly lacking defensively, and a lot of his vulnerability there is just not knowing what his opponent is capable of. If you haven't read ahead you don't know what his opponent is capable of either so what defenses would you prepare to fight against Sophia?

Yes, I know. Xu Xiaodong and all that. "Even if he just trained how fight with a bow, that would be a huge thing." Remember that teacher of his that shows up in the second to last page of the previous chapter? He's had training.

"so why wasn't he training then" When? He's done a lot of things to prepare himself for things he expected to have to deal with. Learned the language, scouted Asora for hazards, established himself as a merchant. He hasn't exactly been idle. Even if he had spent all that time training none of his subordinates would be a good analogue for preparing him to fight Sophia. Which you'll see once he actually fights Sophia I guess. Yes, he could have been more prepared, picked up some close combat skills from the mist lizards. It still wouldn't make Sofia not a threat.

"It's fine if they just don't use the resources and it's whatever, but it's bad writing to tell us these resources exist, then have the MC not use them for no reason and then go "Well because he doesn't use them now something bad happens."" I mean, isn't it equally bad writing if the character always perfectly presciently uses all resources available to prepare for the next level-scaled monster of the week just in time? I'd rather read a story about a character that adapts to adversity than one who perfectly prepares for every possible problem.

"So then what narrative is the 'purpose' of this fight?" - Well it sets up the goddess as a recurring personal antagonist. She wronged the MC before, but didn't act like she would deign to bother with him further. Now she's shown a will to f'k with him and throw him into danger.

"There isn't even anything really at risk." Kinda sorta. Plot armor aside he does have to find a way to end the fight or flee without revealing the existence of Asora to Sophia or the goddess.

Spoiler

He does this by

Spoiler

exploding the ever-living f'k out of everything to give him an opening to slip away.

 

[WillLi]

@Kanol You're missing the point. If he isn't prepared to fight Sophia -despite- his training. That's one thing narratively. It's an entirely other thing narratively to not be prepared but not having trained. ANd yes it is equally bad writting if a character always perpares and always wins. But it is not bad if they always prepare but don't always win. Also I'm not saying he never trained, I'm saying he hasn't really trained since he got to this world, not by his own intention.

Now as for the narrative purpose, I get that, but see...that has nothing to do with this fight. That could've been established by her teleporting him for any reason. Actually doesn't even have to be teleport. There's dozens of things she can do. But you can only introduce someone "more powerful/dangerous than the MC" so many times when the MC has powers on this level before it gets dumb. So using one now to remind us the asshole goddess is an asshole is a waste.

And as for the risk, that is but isn't a risk. Like yes teleporting with his powers would open that up as a problem. But as long as he doesn't teleport within her range there is 0 chance of her finding out. So the fight itself doesn't present that risk.

All in all I think the issue here is you think I'm mad at the fact that Sophia is a threat. That's not the case. Remember I used the word "fake tension". My issue is -why- this is a tension building situation. It's a 'fight for the sake of a fight" and "tension for the sake of tension" and in the end it probably wont change much about the MC as a person. They just wanted to insert tension into the story here. Some people like that, I get that, but I personally hate that. If there is real meaning to it, or it changes things, or is "the universe proving something to the MC" I'm more fine with that. This opinion stems from not a reader, but from a writer, and I see it as lazy writing and that's why it annoys me.

 

[FGOMeltryllis]

you know,the lines said by the"fake"heroes are kinda cringy tbH

 

[Kampfarsch]

My god what the fuck is this comment section
Nobody gives a shit stop writing essays

I really hope we are gonna get a lot less of the other morons now cause holy fuck i dont care about them at all
This is like forcing us to spend 10 chapters with any of the other heroes in rising of the shield hero
Yall already know makoto has to save their ass soon anyway

 

[Osu23]

this comment section is, uh very active I see....

 

[manny16]

In the ln this part is a heck of a lot more epic in the ln when she cut his fingers and he goes berserk and starts to have genocidal thoughts and I can’t wait for the next part it’s gonna be hard for them to adapt what the ln describes what he does

 

[Reshfan]

tldr

 

[Tearsax]

I just read chapter 55 without noticing i didnt read this chapter LOL

Now i understand from where her power up comes from.

 

[Kutabarie]

Why didn't he just say he's not with the bug either right then and there ?

 

[progectsao]

“A Killer Technique “ HAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAAHAAHHAAHHAHA

 

[Jenst]

This mc is useless and ignorant it's painfull that i've managed to read this much off this trash manga