Watashi no Yuri wa Oshigoto desu! - Vol. 12 Ch. 61 - Our Night

[SpiritusNox]

and you don't even care about hurting Sumika

So we're just gonna ignore Kanoko pointedly refusing Youko's offer to send Sumika that picture to piss her off (yeah Youko did it anyway but Kanoko didn't know that), the way Kanoko spent her entire time dating Sumika desperate to find a way to give back to her, the fact that Kanoko wasn't even going to go out with Sumika until Youko (bitch that she is) framed things as "Sumika is suffering, and you have a chance to help", the fact that Kanoko almost didn't even go to see Youko today in-story until Sumika all but demanded Kanoko not cancel plans for her sake, etc etc? The manga's been extremely, bluntly explicit about how Kanoko (who lets also recall is much younger than Nene) has been extremely concerned about not hurting Sumika in all of this, and you're just choosing not to acknowledge any of that because it's more fun for you to call her a freak.

 

[katxts]

A few things here (I ended up rambling a bunch, so it might seem like I'm shouting angrily at you, but I swear I'm not lol):

a) Goeido manipulated Nene into doing that (yes, Nene accepts responsibility for her part in it, cause she says she did go along willingly, but still...).

b) You're making "getting with someone to make the person you like jealous" a much more machiavellian thing than it is. It's not a nice tactic, of course, but it's a common thing that people do to try to get others to notice them.

c) "Not telling lies" isn't a measure of character (in fact, Hime lies as much as she breathes and she still manages to be a decent-albeit-flawed person who shows a lot of care for others). And Kanoko is waaaaay more manipulative than Nene was back then, it doesn't matter how "honest" she's being (and is that even true? I feel like she's told plenty of small lies to Sumika).

d) Nene never tried to "monopolize Sumika's attention", she just wanted Sumika to look at her romantically (something Sumika probably already did, but didn't realize, otherwise she wouldn't have been that jealous). In fact, most of the dislike towards Kanoko is exactly because she's the only one playing the "monopoly" game (not the board game lol).

e) Not mentioning that she'd spoken to Youko is actually a biiiiiiiig thing, cause Sumika (her girlfriend, in theory! And her confidant!) abhors her and specifically told her not to do it.

People are much more on Nene's side, with good reason. Nene has a much more "normal/healthy" love for Sumika than Kanoko does for Hime (eg Nene doesn't want Sumika all to herself, exclusively, she doesn't treat everybody else as "obstacles") and, yeah, there's also the fact we're talking about Nene's/Kanoko's relation to Sumika and Nene loves her, while Kanoko does not and just wants her close for as long as she's useful to her in getting closer to Hime and removing Yano as an obstacle.

Doing something bad to Sumika cause you love her and did things in a bad way (not for bad reasons) = forgivable

Doing something bad to Sumika cause you have a bad obsession with someone else and you don't even care about hurting Sumika = much harder to forgive

Finally, there's also the fact that Kanoko actively wants to destroy most people's actual favorite ship: the main one. So it's pretty easy to see why people aren't very lenient towards her. What ship is Nene trying to destroy? She could've been trying to destroy Sumika+Kanoko, but she's not even doing that, cause she's too nice.

TL;DR: Nene is a good person who did something bad for understandable reasons (love and being manipulated). Kanoko is a bad person who did something bad for a bad reason (obsessive and excessively possessive love) and doesn't even care about the person she hurt.

thank you for saying all this, and I would like to mention that you need to take backgrounds into consideration as well. nene is someone who has been hurt by love countless times and heartbroken people are easy prey for manipulators like youko. her methods of getting sumika to notice her were a bad choice but she was in love and desperate, and burned out of all options because she has tried them and failed countless times, but they were done out of love for sumika. in the end she even gave up on the jealousy game, thinking that she found someone to love in youko, only to be abandoned and emotionally shattered again. she has a part in it yes but the cafe relationships being destroyed and staff lacking were clearly not entirely her fault, and yet she has shouldered all the blame and apologized to sumika.

kanoko on the other hand, has had no experience with love until she fell for hime, and that love turned to obsession still has a grip on her to this very moment. and as we've found out of this chapter she has confessed to her as well so hime might be the only experience with rejection she's ever had which might not have even happened yet. she has had plenty of options. and despite that she is using sumika as an emotional crutch while not having any feelings for her (as of now) and being aware of it, and aware of sumika's feelings which she does not respect at all, her actions were all self serving done out of love for someone else, not sumika, and for her own comfort. it's easy to see why many people forgave and want to root for nene when it comes to sumika who has been a victim in both cases, except nene grew as a person and is trying her best to respect sumika's feelings.

I respect people's choices and ships, but personally, I cannot find it in me to like or root for sumikano, and even if the author decides to go for it in the end (with a healthier outlook jfc) it will always leave a bitter taste in my mouth. my only wish out of this manga is nene finally finding happiness in her life and in someone who will return her love in a healthy genuine way, because after all she's been through she deserves at least that, sumika or not.

 

[katxts]

You know - as someone who adores Nene and wants the world for her - it's very funny to me how Nene, who actually literally ran a big hurtful manipulative scheme to try and monopolize Sumika's attention, is so much more easily forgiven by some folks than Kanoko, who actually never lied to Sumika in all of this beyond not mentioning that she'd spoken to Youko. And keep in mind that Kanoko doesn't get to read the manga, so literally all she knew about Youko initially was "Pretty lady, Sumika doesn't trust her, had a bad breakup with that punky girl in the kitchen"

nene running a manipulative scheme? nene? did we forget youko exists? nene lying to sumika was simply her not confessing. and in the end she did fall for youko and they did date for real so after that point it wasn't a lie at all. and why are you implying that kanoko is somehow in the clear with the youko situation when it's actually the opposite. when youko first came to the cafe nene didn't know a thing about her except "pretty lady, wants to help me get noticed by the girl I like, she understands my struggle with sexuality". she had no idea what youko would go and do to sumika on her own out of whatever obsession she has with her, she didn't know she was being used in the end. but guess who did? kanoko did. she was warned youko is a bad person, she knew what youko did to nene and to the cafe, sumika personally asked her to not interact with her, and she didn't listen to any of it. I get that you want to defend her but your framing is clearly biased to your fave, and I might be the same, but we shouldn't act like people are somehow "funny" for choosing to see things this way

 

[jinter]

Oh yeah, I'm liking this, please keep discussing, but respectfully, don't let those emotions run too high.

 

[SpiritusNox]

"Kanoko knew what type of person Youko was" lol she literally didn't. Literally all she knew is that Youko was involved in a bad breakup with Nene - and that Nene still wanted to see Youko when Youko came back! - and that Sumika hated her. She didn't know anything about what a schemer Youko was - neither did Sumika, for that matter, the main reason Sumika hated her was because Youko's vibes were rancid (which, to be clear, they absolutely were). Kanoko even explicitly thought "I wonder if it would be good for Sumika and Youko to talk to each other and clear up whatever this misunderstanding is." She was wrong, of course, but she had no way at all of knowing that.

My point is not that Nene is a bad person - she's not, she's an angel - my point is that every excuse we can make for Nene's mistakes only applies even more strongly to Kanoko. Like we keep saying "but Sumika told Kanoko to get away from Youko!!!" bitch Sumika told Nene the same thing and Nene's the only one who fuckin' tapped that lmao. And that's despite Nene being the Actual Adult of the two!

 

[Beastkun]

honestly hopefully after this flash back it should be clear to Kanoko the difference between how Hime feels between Kanoko and Yano though i feel she already knows it but just dont wanna accept it but should be clear after this is all said and done

as for Sumika hopefully she can catch a fucking break soon cause all through out this series has things just been messed up for her so here's hoping something good can finally happen for her

and im seeing people say they want her with Nene and honestly i really hope that dont happen cause Nene Lost that long ago with the bs she did smh....

with that said am looking forward to next ch and seeing the truth in the flash back and finally clearing up some things that happened

 

[maxiusagi]

na-nani1!!

 

[Jhosy]

Still, Nene didn't forced a kiss on Sumika or tried to have sex with her (forced I should say) just to make a point that kisses and sexual intimacy isn't important (to her because she doesn't like Sumika).
Nene did a wrong thing that hurt Sumika a lot but she wasn't romantically involved with her. In a way, what Kanoko did and is doing with Sumika is a lot worse than anything that Nene did. Most things that did go wrong back then was purely because Goedo actually but anyway...

You know - as someone who adores Nene and wants the world for her - it's very funny to me how Nene, who actually literally ran a big hurtful manipulative scheme to try and monopolize Sumika's attention, is so much more easily forgiven by some folks than Kanoko, who actually never lied to Sumika in all of this beyond not mentioning that she'd spoken to Youko. And keep in mind that Kanoko doesn't get to read the manga, so literally all she knew about Youko initially was "Pretty lady, Sumika doesn't trust her, had a bad breakup with that punky girl in the k

 

[monarchofthesea]

You know - as someone who adores Nene and wants the world for her - it's very funny to me how Nene, who actually literally ran a big hurtful manipulative scheme to try and monopolize Sumika's attention, is so much more easily forgiven by some folks than Kanoko, who actually never lied to Sumika in all of this beyond not mentioning that she'd spoken to Youko. And keep in mind that Kanoko doesn't get to read the manga, so literally all she knew about Youko initially was "Pretty lady, Sumika doesn't trust her, had a bad breakup with that punky girl in the kitchen"

Im so glad someone’s finally saying this

I am in no way trying to say what Kanoko did was right, nor was it the best option. She was witnessing everyone around her start to change, and began to panic. She didn’t think Sumika would listen to anything she said, she just wanted things to get back to normal. So Kanoko went to someone who she thought would help her, but in the end made the situation way worse.

Both Nene and Kanoko were manipulated by Youko. Neither of them were in the right in their situations to go along with what she told them. However they were both equally pawns in the game Youko is playing.

Also, when it comes to what Kanoko did in ch60 to Sumika. Youko told her that’s what Sumika wanted?? That was very much apart of the manipulation. I am not trying to defend Kanoko at all in that, because she did go about it in the wrong way, but I think people are brushing off what Youko did to her in the hotel way too easily.

Kanoko does not deserve the amount of hate I’ve been seeing. I don’t think she’s a perfect character by any means. She needs development, and I’m glad these chapters have been offering that opportunity for her

 

[monarchofthesea]

Most things that did go wrong back then was purely because Goedo actually but anyway...

So was the situation here with Kanoko?? Are you forgetting that everything that has occurred the past few chapters only happened because Youko told Kanoko she has to do it? That Sumika won’t abandon her if all that happens. Both Nene and Kanoko accepted the things they were told. Both of them realized that what they were doing was more harmful to their relationship to Sumika, after the damage had already been done. Nene and Kanoko were both told by Sumika that she hated Youko and didn’t want them interacting with her, and both of them didn’t listen to these warnings. Both of them are equally wrong in this regard. Both of them were equally manipulated.

 

[LilithRaven]

Since a lot of people have complaints about not seeing Hime and Yano I’m going to say what I’ve been thinking for a while. Hime and Yano’s relationship probably won’t be able to progress unless Kanoko goes through this development. I think that unless Kanoko realizes she doesn’t have feelings for Hime (whether those feelings ever existed or they just go away) no progress can really be made between Hime and Yano. If any attempt at progressing their relationship were to occur at the current moment, it’s entirely possible that Kanoko would act out and attempt to sabotage it. You guys may not like this fact, or even Kanoko as a character, but she needs that growth before the main pairing can start growing as well

i say that is just BS and nothing more, because it’s easy to remove kanoko from the story and none will bloody miss her(the author has the power sooooo F the glasses bitch), I mean the readers won’t miss her and we can go back to the main couple

 

[SpiritusNox]

Still, Nene didn't forced a kiss on Sumika or tried to have sex with her

its almost like Kanoko is a sixteen year old who is literally hours removed from extreme trauma and emotionally reeling or something

 

[Broken25]

Regardless of the circunstances, forcing a kiss on someone by surprise is imperdonable.

 

[Jhosy]

its almost like Kanoko is a sixteen year old who is literally hours removed from extreme trauma and emotionally reeling or something

Still don't excuse the whole thing she did. Nor the assault on Sumika, nor the whole lie she made to just have Sumika's attention.
She is selfish to the bone and really twisted.

 

[SpiritusNox]

Still don't excuse the whole thing she did. Nor the assault on Sumika, nor the whole lie she made to just have Sumika's attention.
She is selfish to the bone and really twisted.

Nene being sad, meanwhile, is a perfectly valid excuse for dating another woman with the express goal of making her crush experience emotional pain in the hopes that said pain causes her crush to make a move on her, I guess.

Like, again, I love Nene! But you can love Nene or you can hate Kanoko, but you can't do both with any moral consistency lol. I'm pretty sure Nene would be the first to tell you this, too!

 

[monarchofthesea]

nene grew as a person and is trying her best to respect sumika's feelings.

Kanoko has not had the time to grow and learn from her mistakes. She apologized to Sumika for what she did in the last chapter, and now they’re talking out their emotions. It’s hard to grow from an experience that happened only a few hours ago.

It’s really hard to compare the characters in these situations, because Nene and Kanoko have such vastly different personalities. However, when it comes to their situations with Sumika, they were both equally manipulated by Youko and both equally in the wrong.

Kanoko and Nene both have vastly different experiences and motivations. Nene’ motivations behind working with Youko were to get Sumika’s attention and make Sumika realize she has feelings for Nene (which, side note, is such an assumption? There are no signs pointing to the fact that Sumika ever had feelings that weren’t platonic for Nene. I think this assumption that Sumika ever secretly had feelings for Nene was another thing Youko put into Nene’s head in order to manipulate her) Kanoko’s motivation for contacting Youko were to try and salvage the relationship with Sumika that she thought she was losing. Both of them were scared and alone and chose the worst person to confide in. Neither of them, at the time of their respective incidents with Youko, really thought to consider Sumika’s feelings.

They have both greatly fucked up and they both deserve their time to grow from these experiences. Give Kanoko some more time to actually reflect on her actions, because it’s still only been hours since the incident at the hotel, and her and Sumika are still trying to talk the situation through.

 

[gum_rummy]

What does Sumika like about Kanako again?

 

[Broken25]

What does Sumika like about Kanako again?

She is smol and cute and depends on her.

Sumika's ideal woman is a hamster.

 

[takormi]

didnt she just assault her wtf

 

[Schpoof]

"Kanoko knew what type of person Youko was" lol she literally didn't.

She should have as soon as Youko told her to date Sumika to manipulate Sumika into doing things for her that Sumika explicitly didn't want to do because it caused her harm. Harming Sumika was an intrinsic part of the plan. It was a 100% negative act done with clear, mindful intent, for logical but selfish reasons. And Youko's plan wouldn't have worked if that mentality wasn't congruent with Kanoko's personality.

Nene wanted affection. Youko gave her affection and told her she might even be able to get Sumika's affection too if they just fooled around and enjoy themselves. Which means it was not a totally negative act done for negative reasons, with actual affection and positive intent in mind. And the harm wasn't an intrinsic part of the plan, because if Sumika didn't get jealous and Nene just had fun with Youko then there'd be no harm.

Nene and Kanoko's actions are not equivalent. Kanoko is intrinsically toxic. Nene is not.

Bottom line for me is Sumika explicitly has a strong caretaker personality and uniquely vulnerable to the kinds of abuse people like Kanoko dole out because of that. If this wasn't a yuri manga, I wouldn't doubt for a second Sumika doesn't love Kanoko, but rather has been gaslit into confusing her caretaker drive for love.

But this is a yuri manga.

So don't look down on my love (which is totally not something battered gaslit housewives say)

¯\(ツ)/¯