webp support (now that all modern browsers finally support it) :rejected:

[BzzBzz]

> Webp now has over 90% in caniuse.

You think 10% is nothing? Go find an axe and chop off 10% of your leg then we will talk about it

 

[blackyawgdom]

This topic has been denied multiple times. https://mangadex.org/thread/154751/1/#post_916179

Like we said 2 months ago, stop beating a dead horse. Webp is shit. It causes too many problems.

crazybars - A lot of Google's stuff is intentionally programmed to work like a charm on Google, but drag like a turd when it's used outside it's native Google environment. As in, it's made to interfere with their competitors and waste resources. Oh and it tends to be cloud or self updating garbage so using older versions of Google suites is not an option so it can break with no warning and force more resource wastage on more patches.

Believe me, Web P is a complete turd to program for outside of the Google network and equipment like Chrome.

Besdes, most of the Web and Social Media is coded to use JPegs and PNGs, Web P is as close to dead as you can get for a new image format simply because creating exceptions and options for it is mostly only pushed by Google, and if you pay attention to the news, none of the other public companies particularly like Google that much. They all hate the Google. A LOT.

 

[eng1]

@mrincognito - So you are saying 20 out of 20 should make a sacrifice for 1 out of 20?

Even that 1 out of 20 will benefit to some extent. While polyfill will have more impact, the images would download faster and the site would have less load so itll be faster.

And again, you cant perfectly support all hardware forever. Should mangadex go pure html with no javascript and css to better support old hardware?

Mangadex is already using polyfills to support older browsers, you cant deny reality. And will probably do so even more in v5, and that 5% will only keep shrinking

 

[eng1]

@bzzbzz silly strawman argument, IE6 still makes up 0.1% marketshare, you think it is fine to cut off 0.1% of your brain?

And I am not talking about abandoning 10%, I am talking about pollyfill for them. But again speaking of being left behind old devices, I ask what you think will happen to some of those once jan 2021 hits and letsencrypt cert becomes invalid on old devices?

@blackyawgdom - it has been denied before it had wide support(ms and apple didnt support it then). Now every modern browser supports it.

As for your quote, it is so clueless I dont even know where to start. Webp is open source, and it works just as well on all browsers since all use libraries that would work the same regardless of browser. Webp would use less resources.

And social media isnt coded with image formats to begin with... back in the day people said same about png, now its the most used format. Webp usage is rising rapidly and considering it can significantly reduce bandwidth, no one is putting up a real argument against it. "Google ate my dog" isnt a good argument.

 

[gomichandesu]

Me when people start talking about tech shit

I'm too old to understand things anymore lol.

All I gotta say is, you act as though we all are suffering in the current system. I have no issues outside the very occasional 502?
Admittedly I don't understand any of this which is why I wasn't gonna get too involved, but I am genuinely wondering am I just a stray outlier and everyone else is just experiencing DMV level wait times on the site or is this actually a nonissue and most people are loading shit fine?

And I guess, the next question, would groups even be willing to use webp or will they just continue to upload in pngs anyway (I know I sure as shit will bc I don't even fully understand what webpenis even is lol) If groups themselves arent on board with this, then there's really no point in the mods taking time out of their lives to make them work on the site. Because either way it sounds like the mods don't have much interest in this project.

@Halo perhaps we should start a poll? lol

 

[eng1]

@gomichandesu - webp will significantly reduce the strain on bandwidth while offering good quality, even if it is used only for datasaver option it would still be a big impovement.

Of course groups uploading things in webp would also help and some groups did in the past, but back then webp had too little support.

Unfortunately many tech conversations start straying away from actual discussion of tech and stray into people's feelings on how the company who made X tech ate my dog, i have no proof but my dog is gone so that must be it!

 

[BzzBzz]

> what you think will happen to some of those once jan 2021 hits and letsencrypt cert becomes invalid on old devices?

Nothing will happen if site-owner properly reconfigure cross-signature. End of panic.

Edit: Just tested android 5 device with built-in browser on letsencrypt test site and guess what... it works perfectly!

 

[BraveDude8]

@eng1 Bandwidth is not our issue, and serving entirely .webps wouldn't mitigate the current errors.

 

[pandascepter]

Depending in the groups itself like @gomichan said and scanlation is already an old thingy like so, its already been a common thing to use pngs. Also some groups did use something that i don't understand to reduce file size. That means they did consider to use something to help mangadex too, so -1 for webp.

also i'm disappointed with 9gag, they use webp too, not because it's bad, because i hate to convert my stolen meme.

edit : @eng1, i'm sorry, but

....buy a new tablet.

is much worse than

"Google ate my dog" isnt a good argument.

 

[eng1]

@bzzbzz did you miss the jan 11 2021 part? It is still december, even if you configure alternative cross signing that will only last a few months. Reality is reality that old stuff are old.

@bravedude8 Then what was the point of datasaver and mangadex@home? To reduce bandwidth load no? Not to mention the benefits is to everyone stuff loading faster, better quality and for those using datacapped devices less bandwidth too.

@pandascepter No it isnt. My argument for old devices is polyfill, the whole buy new device thing is if you want to enjoy the modern web which is going to happen one way or another, that is simply reality. Pretending these old devices will forever be able to access the modern web is delusional.

 

[Plykiya]

@eng1 Data-saver was a stopgap solution until Mangadex@Home existed. The purpose of creating MangaDex@Home was that we were hitting the literal serving capacity of our few image servers. Now this problem is completely solved and more.

Webp isn't going to be allowed because that percentage of iOS users is NOT an insignificant amount. It's not just "1 out of 20", that's a fuckton of reports and users that come complaining when you have over 10 million unique visitors a month

 

[BraveDude8]

@eng1 MD@H has entirely resolved our bandwidth issues.

 

[BzzBzz]

did you miss the jan 11 2021 part? It is still december, even if you configure alternative cross signing that will only last a few months. Reality is reality that old stuff are old.

This is clearly shows you have no idea what you are talking about. Get your news from the source at least. Not from retarded 3rd party.

Go to their site. Find announcement. Find part

On January 11, 2021, Let’s Encrypt will start serving a certificate chain via the ACME protocol which leads directly to our root, with no cross-signature. Most subscribers don’t need to take any action because their ACME client will handle everything automatically. Subscribers who need to support very old TLS/SSL clients may wish to manually configure their servers to continue using the cross-signature from IdenTrust. You can test whether a given client will work with the newer intermediate by accessing our test site.

now, please stop this bullshit. Everything will work as it is working right now if site owner aren't lazy.

 

[NodiX]

This topic has been denied multiple times. https://mangadex.org/thread/154751/1/#post_916179

Like we said 2 months ago, stop beating a dead horse. Webp is shit. It causes too many problems.


crazybars - A lot of Google's stuff is intentionally programmed to work like a charm on Google, but drag like a turd when it's used outside it's native Google environment. As in, it's made to interfere with their competitors and waste resources. Oh and it tends to be cloud or self updating garbage so using older versions of Google suites is not an option so it can break with no warning and force more resource wastage on more patches.

Believe me, Web P is a complete turd to program for outside of the Google network and equipment like Chrome.

Besdes, most of the Web and Social Media is coded to use JPegs and PNGs, Web P is as close to dead as you can get for a new image format simply because creating exceptions and options for it is mostly only pushed by Google, and if you pay attention to the news, none of the other public companies particularly like Google that much. They all hate the Google. A LOT.

Why do you even quote that dude? He doesn't even know that there's no space in webp. The main reason why social media doesn't use webp because the virality nature of their websites; people do download and share images from social media and webp isn't made to do that. Twitter even stopped optimizing their images anymore for this very reason.

Also, the mods are right, bandwidth is currently not the issue now. Either their servers or the database are over capacity which I wouldn't know exactly because I'm not the one who's doing the troubleshooting. If it were me I would use CDN and cache the API response in static JSON and purge em every time there's a change, which would make the site behaves like a pseudo JAMstack site and make less call to actual server and the database. But in Mangadex case there's chapter hashing to make it complicated and for some reason people would brought up AWS every time there's a talk about CDN...