Which type of protag do you think is worse?

[SlimyFish]

I'm kinda having trouble deciding if I hate the overly arrogant and are in general pretty bad people (but everyonr calls him honourable and handsomd) mcs of chinese novels or the virgin forever complete beta JP MCs that despite having 3+ women in love with them is still saying that he's a loner and doesn't pick up on the blatant hints that are being dropped. Oops turned into a rant anyway I'm an internet drone so I just wanna know the general consensus.

 

[IronDoge]

There's nothing intrinsically bad about either archetype (except for how consistently they're poorly done - but bad writing is par for the course). There are strengths of both - the arrogant asshole moves forward and gets things done, necessary for action and drama. While the beta manwhore keeps things in stasis - good for comforting comedies and maximizes the market appeal by not hard excluding people not programmed to be turned on by the specific sex stuff a particular series has.

My opinion is that since the main character is simply a vessel to create the story around, it falls down into which of these kinds of stories you like. The cliche for Wuxia/Xianxia novels is that the MC murder hobo's perhaps too hard, and the series devolves into 5,000 pages that are just lists of random people they've murdered. My favorites in the genre have always been comedies to some degree, such as Arrogant Young Master.

Honestly the absolute worst is when they're combined - often seen in the JP action harem subgenre. Shit like the apex of shit, The Master of Ragnarok and Blesser of Einherjar... argh. It's one thing for a pig to roll around in his own shit, but to be smug about it and act like you're jesus christ himself, argh. When the MC pretends to be humble but is anything but, on top of being a Mary Sue but not a good Mary Sue like Garth Marenghi.

 

[Tamerlane]

A character with major flaws is better than one who is perfect in every way.

Honestly, tackling how a character who has apprehensions about finding love would be better, and I wish more manga would focus on perhaps a beta MC that's a beta for some very deep seeded reasons in their character that informs their actions.

 

[varrock1]

I hate the virgin jap mcs with a firey passion. Most of the time they force their morals and beliefs on society, their stories are bland and they are genuinely boring as hell. They are most of the time more hypocritical than the enemies they have and use double standards all the time. They let themselves be abused and do nothing about it generally and have no understanding of complex concepts.

The Chinese mcs are scumbags and the stories portray them as such instead of trying to muddy the water with dumb even worse enemies like the japs deal with. The Chinese mcs don't pretend to be good or take the high ground, they are assholes and you know it.

I guess its just my taste, but I'd rather an honest jerk, than a pretentious "Good guy".

 

[Mr_Detective]

I know western readers usually diss MCs who are weak, or non-manly looking. A weak and wimpy MC isn't a bad thing by itself, but how he affects the story and what he does to or for people around him.

Doraemon's main character, Nobita, is a complete wimp and idiot. But deep down, he's a kind boy with a pure heart, and he can be brave when he's forced to be. Despite him being weak and stupid, he's one of the most popular and beloved manga/anime characters in Asia. Dragon Quest also has a character named Pop, who was a cowardly wimp at the beginning, but eventually became the strongest mage by the end. If a weak MC doesn't do anything useful, he's a bad MC. Simple as that. If a weak MC can progress the story in anyway, he's a good MC. Uhm... I don't care about the virgin part. You folks are too obsessed with sex. Grow up... =.=

I don't read Chinese comics, so I can't tell for sure how those omega brad characters are. But sounds like I won't like them already.

A wimp with a heart of gold is better than a tough guy with no heart.

 

[IronDoge]

> Most of the time they force their morals and beliefs on society, their stories are bland and they are genuinely boring as hell.

The opposite is actually true - these kinds of characters are reflections of social attitudes of what a person is "supposed" to be. In this particular case it's a twisted overcompensation of many things - that men shouldn't act based on their lust (so the females become hollow cyphers for the male's lust instead), that it's wrong to express an opinion (someone would get offended if you ever said anything you know), wildly unrealistic depictions of friendship, etc. The actual grooming itself (which granted it reinforces by not expressing a counter opinion) came from elsewhere.

Social grooming is perfectly normal and is imposed top down - you have to domesticate your humans after all. You'd see it in wretched old fare like Leave it to Beaver where Dad always knows best. And even today you have tons of propaganda of stories that are nothing more than "good guys have to kill the bad guys", and you see that cartoonification of reality in political conversations all the time. Another term for it is "propaganda".

The true reason villains are evil is because they want to change the world, and those who benefit from the status quo most assuredly do not want things to change. To the point we've been brainwashed into thinking it's blasphemous to have such goals. Thus why heroes are always boring reactionaries - all they can do is beat up bad guys, they can never bother themselves to actually improve the world somewhat.

Of course the psycho murder hobo just wants to slot himself into the top of the pyramid scheme we call society, dust off his hands, and call it a day. Is that better than retreating into a fantasy world where you collect women like pokemon? Obviously not if you actually have them fight each other in bloodsport, but only a few harem series actually go that far..

 

[deleted-user-fa34c23c34]

@IronDoge

Propaganda

Nice jaded middle school essay. Did you crack that groundbreaking epiphany from your poetry diary or something? Next you'll be saying fiction is garbage because it's all lies, and none of it actually happened.

 

[Teddy]

@Pantsman hey don't diss middle school essays; poetry diarys are also valid forms of literature. They allow expression, emotion and most importantly retrospective cringing.

Jks aside, always insult with explanations, otherwise thats just trolling...which is mean and small no-no in this absolutely zero drama pirate cove

 

[Richman]

@Teddy WFT?! I haven't made a comment on this one, chief.

 

[Teddy]

@Richman wellllll.........yeahhhh....my sincerest apologies...tagged the wrong person

 

[Richman]

@Teddy Why did you tag me tho? Well, doesn't matter, my opinion on this topic is that...

I dislike Super Wimpy nihon MCs more than Chad Chinese MCs, just because too much chadness is a little more bearable than too much wimpy-ness, like, i don't like both archetypes, but super wimpy MCs that just feel sad and are spineless and drag out things just make me rage.

 

[Teddy]

@richman got you mixed up with pantsman. Also is Kamijou Touma considered chad or wimpy

 

[Richman]

@Teddy
Source, because i have no idea who it is.

 

[hazzack]

@richman not the ted but it's from a certain series of novels called "a certain magical Index"

 

[Teddy]

@richman Middle guy

 

[Richman]

Looks semi chad, like, not chad enough to slay, but not virgin enough to make me impatient, probably, asuming from this single image.

 

[Teddy]

 

[Richman]

@Teddy
Seeing that, he's gone from semi-chad to very chad.

 

[bigtiddyoneesan]

Touma is a male protag of a shonen series. He is, as demanded by the laws of physics, destined to become a Chad MC, assuming he didn't already start as one.

 

[Teddy]

spoiler for Toaru

Spoiler

Touma goes to hospital a few dozens times, becomes an amputate less than a dozen times, gets sacrificed/betrayed/murdered a few thousands to millions of times.