Why do so many people romanticize not asking for consent?

Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2019
Messages
93
I've talked about this to so many people before, but I wanted to ask you guys.
Why do so many creators / manga / books romanticize / sexualize not asking for consent? And why so many readers like it?
I honestly don't like how much it's just added in a series and just ignored. Not ever addressed and just used as "fan service"

edit: wait- is this the right forum to ask this in-
 
Fed-Kun's army
Joined
Feb 13, 2021
Messages
484
@blfanacount ;
because "consensual non-consent" is a thing apparently, and pseudo-rape gets people off, but fetishising real rape on 2D art is supposed to give readers a feeling of power and superiority, imho - though I often attribute it to incels that can't get laid, getting off to forcing it on paper. 👀
Personally, you can't ask for consent from animals or tentacles, even if the former has some forme of intelligence - they're driven by instinct and urgea more than a human is.
 
Joined
Oct 20, 2018
Messages
36
Well they want to enrich their story romance can introduce several situations to enrich plot development, character development and sometimes to allow the reader to take a breath from whatever is going on.

Though the categorize "fan service" isn't really this approach of plot development it's usually meant as eye candy for the readers and attempt to distract them from the plot, many times used in a comical fashion while contributing as an easy "look pretty waifus or husbandos right here" this actually helps to create alternatives chains of revenue besides only selling the story (so more money for everyone ).

I could share your opinion some titles do exaggerate with that and tend to side track a lot, but normally when used correctly provides an insanely better experience for the reader.

Edit: Failed to notice the non-consensual in the question, well the popularity of it may be due to something going on with the success of it.
 
Dex-chan lover
Joined
Jan 19, 2018
Messages
287
Only people who ask for content are in bad jp porn where the chick is pretending to be drunk. Everywhere else, when they have their tongue in your mouth and are proceeding to take your dick out, consent is assumed unless the chick is drunk. If you’re around a university and the chick is drunk then it might not be consent if you aren’t up to her standards when she sobers up. Welcome to the stupid “she can change her mind and charge you with rape” laws.
 
Dex-chan lover
Joined
Apr 15, 2018
Messages
827
Asking for consent is for people who have a chance of being rejected. Fabio-kun doesn't have to ask, Fabio-kun just takes what's his.

I don't know, romanticized rape is more of a women's media thing. You see it more openly because it's one of those fetishes that's ubiquitous enough that it's considered borderline socially acceptable, like mother-son incest. Why is swallowing people sexualized? Who cares.
 
Double-page supporter
Joined
Dec 2, 2020
Messages
81
well me too sometimes wondering, for stories whether shoujo smut or yaoi webtoon, people are fine with forcing sexual activity (in minimal way..not on extreme sexual violence) and tend to "kyaaaaa its so hot, omg the uke is so thickk and muscleyy"

welp that goes for me too actually, I often don't mind it when it comes to reading smut manga/manhwas (bl or shoujo)
 
Joined
Sep 14, 2020
Messages
45
In my opinion, it’s bcz ppl can’t do and shouldn’t do that in real life. Ya know, like flying and magic. Since this is a venue where it can be done, this becomes the outlet for most ppl (instead of doing something bad irl).

Another reason is, plot. I mean, half of the works out there would be finished or wouldn’t even start if proper consent is considered tbh.

and sometimes, ppl are weird af. I mean why romanticize cheating, incest, pedophilia, etc etc
 
Joined
Aug 7, 2019
Messages
901
can you give some examples. I know there are some around but for the most part, not talking hentai, I don't see rape being romanticized that often. More often I see it used to make the point these are the bad guys or as a way to debase someone.

I'm guessing a big part is just that there are a lot of poor writers out there and it is an easy way to get a reaction and hook someone in. Keep in mind the hook doesn't have to be I like this it can be I hate what happened. Self-righteous anger is addicting and can be used to hook people. From a poor writing view it is an easy way to generate an emotion without really having to write a good event. I've read one where they had a little girl killed in a war. It served no real point in the story it was just a "Oh my how terrible moment", similar to having someone find a cute kitten, "Oh how sweet so much fluff", I'm going to keep reading this when the story itself sucks. Hell there's a whole movie based on a guy getting his dog killed and then killing everybody.
 
Dex-chan lover
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Messages
17,908
Typical fanservice is just bath scenes, beach scenes, changing room scenes, and such. It might also include accidents. It happens in great many manga, even in serious ones, though naturally a whole lot more rarely than in ecchi manga, which is more or less based on it. In the average cases consent hasn't got anything to do with it because the manga reader is the only offender.

When we get to the molestation and rape level, things are pretty interesting. In shounen and seinen, whoever does it is almost always depicted as a scumbag. In shoujo and josei, the culprit can be the coolest, most dashing man in the story, and nothing will tarnish his reputation. At least as far as hetero encounters go; I don't have much experience of witnessing the others in manga. I wonder if this is because the male audience reading manga want to feel like female characters are to be protected/treasured heroically (in shounen/seinen), whereas the female audience obviously has no such suffocating bias (in shoujo/josei). Of course in shounen/seinen the female characters often defend themselves very violently (unless it's a very realistic series), which usually is not the case in shoujo/josei. Personally, when reading relevant shoujo/josei, I am quite baffled by this issue, but it's also connected to liking mentally strong MCs, no matter if they are male or female.
 
Dex-chan lover
Joined
Mar 17, 2019
Messages
9,700
romanticized rape is more of a women's media thing
My thoughts as well. You can find plenty of shoujo/josei/smut manga where the female lead is 'pressured' into doing things with the male lead, by the male lead. The 'led around by someone attractive and dominant' scenario is pretty appealing to the female demographic, just as the 'surrounded by a harem of big booba girls' is appealing to the male demographic.

As for BL/yaoi (I'm taking a leap of faith here and assuming that OP reads these genres), essentially the same power dynamics can be found (since the target audience is women).

And to be clear, I'm not slamming the trope or anything. It's just useful to understand why certain tropes come about and sell so well in the first place.
 
Joined
Feb 3, 2020
Messages
6
I don't know, romanticized rape is more of a women's media thing.
I haven't run into it much, but I wonder if it is due to bodice rippers. Older western romance novels couldn't let the lady in the book instigate unwed sex but wanted to have them in a sex scene / express sexuality. Maybe the novels got translated and were liked or there were some similar social pressures leading to similar fiction.

If it happens in a bl context I am willing to bet it is just author fetishes, but unfortunately most of the bl things that I have read feel like someone writing a gay couple because they think it's hot and it not super feeling like a gay relationship.
 
Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2021
Messages
188
You read fantasy to get away from reality. Not being bound by current social norms is one of the bigest advantages of writing fiction
 
Dex-chan lover
Joined
Jan 20, 2018
Messages
1,028
Why does it matter what people from another culture romanticize? It wasn't written for you. No one forces you to read it if you don't like it.

Edit: go back to reddit/facebook with your SJW shit.
 
Joined
Jan 31, 2021
Messages
4
You seem to think that because a character hasn't verbally asked for consent then it's automatically non-censensual.
If you take the time to read romance manga you'll see that good mangaka put a lot of effort into showing that both parties want each other and are ready for intimacy: they make eye deep contact then embarrassedly look away, an accidental touch lingers, they each bring themselves closer and closer and finally they kiss. It's way more romantic than asking "is it alright if I kiss you now?" or whatever.

Of course discard all of the above if you're just reading isekai trash where heroines get felt up ten times a day!
 
Dex-chan lover
Joined
May 10, 2018
Messages
11,821
Nowadays you need to sign consensual contracts before doing it or else you risk your ass thrown into prison.
 
Joined
Feb 3, 2020
Messages
6
@hornyturtle that is true now sometimes. Plenty of people write fiction to look at the modern day politics in a new light, or ethical quandries of what is now possible. Can't stop people from ignoring the real world connections they have, like when someone insists something like star trek is somehow apolitical.

But really that is not the issue. When bodice rippers were standard for sexual romance, there was a higher barrier to entry, and having a large scandal around your book to the point of the reader being judged for reading it. It was allowing these ladies to escape into a sexual fantasy without the book being taboo. The trope stuck around after this in the states, so why couldn't a similar thing happen in parts of Asia, or culture there be influenced by culture here? Doesn't always happen though, and I for one am glad that we no longer have 10 minute kissing scenes in tv due to the hays code.
 
Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2020
Messages
111
TLDR: Because there's a market for them.

Having sadomasochistic kinks isn't uncommon and has, in fact, been around for a good long while, so I assume that what you really want to know isn't so much as to why it's romanticized but more on why people find it stimulating. Well, psychologists have proposed a number of reasons, most popularly, that they need a way to vent out their stress or feel intimacy by allowing themselves to be vulnerable.

A more straightforward hypothesis--and one I prefer, tbh--is that there are people who has associated dominance and submission with eroticism in some form or fashion during the course of their lives. Simply put, they relate vulnerability to sex and not necessarily because they're stressed or could not feel intimacy otherwise. If you wanna read more about that, I recommend reading about fetishism in psychology (since you'll also find the term in anthropology and literature, both of which won't answer the question).

As for the point made by others about the vilification and romantization of the trope, that largely depends on the current norms and trends of the times. If you're interested, Foucault, Freud and Lacan are the most popular ones and are a good start as primers for how this trend has been viewed and studied by the public over the years, and then leading up to more modern studies and interpretations like Falaky and Newmahr. Although you'll find them sounding more hypothetical than anything, they are at least reliable enough that at one point (though I suppose that would be now), you'll be lead to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders where you'll find sexual masochism and how it's seen by the medical community and its forensic classifications which has been revised over the course of the years as more studies and data were gathered about it ranging from relatively subjective questionnaires to the more objective spinal nerve stimulation, MRIs and EEGs.

Generally, since punishment largely falls on men, you'd find most male-oriented literatures vilify the act unless otherwise justified in some sense, e.g. revenge plots. On the other hand, female-oriented literatures usually establish the image of prim and proper ladies prior to being "ravaged" by the ML. It's the prim and proper they often put emphasis on and it would seem that the trope is there to subvert that imagery.

The hypothesis I find the most disdainful uses Darwin as pretext. Supposedly, dominance entails reliability and therefore, better genes. In other words, women are supposedly biologically inclined towards more aggressive men. Well, I'd rather people read up on this than have to explain it myself since, as I said before, I'm disdainful of this hypothesis so I'm likely to be the worst person to be explaining it. I like to think, however, that my disdain is not unwarranted. They liken it to how physical attraction plays a role in romance, saying that certain characteristics are associated to better genes and therefore, better partners. While I agree that this is an influence, this has nothing to do with social roles. Unlike the other hypothesis, there is no way to objectively verify this statement at all and rely on other observable phenomena as basis without measurable correlation between them other than, "This seems to be the way it is, so this is probably how it is". Well, I'm rambling on my own now so again, research this on your own as I'm not the best person to elaborate on this.

Finally, to the last point about this being shrugged off as fan service, that is because it is how they usually appear to be. If the manga advocates and actively encourages the act, however, then it's a different story. People usually react strongly against characters that are scumbags through and through, but the Leads (capitalized for the sake of differentiating) for these types of fantasies often have redeeming traits about them (e.g. actually being caring, having a gentle side themselves, or reflecting and regretting their actions to some degree, etc). They often make a clear distinction on why they're okay with one character doing it and not the other.

Point is, fan service is when the manga goes through lengths to justify it or makes clear boundaries of what is or is not okay. Otherwise, you'd have to wonder about the author and to some degree, their readers' moral standards. Unless it's hentai. Then you should expect all logic should fly out the window.
 
Dex-chan lover
Joined
Dec 31, 2018
Messages
884
@blfanacount Media tropes are self perpetuating. Things you watch, read, and play, are more likely than not to seep into your work if you decide to go create. Basically, this stuff is in there cause someone saw it somewhere else, probably in many places, assumed that that was what you do, and then replicated it in their own work.
 
Contributor
Joined
Jan 17, 2019
Messages
308
Do you think people in actual relationships write formal requests for coochie rather than just making out? Consent is implied.

**Not talking about real rape, that's loathsome.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top