Zenbu Kowashite Jigoku de Aishite - Vol. 4 Ch. 17 - Getting Dizzy

[k1rumaaa]

THIS SHI IS PISSING ME OFFFF😭😭😭😭

 

[PsychoTheRabbit]

I want to find again those countless people talking so much crap about Naoi and saying that Kokoro was a good girl lol Talk about not reading the room. Kokoro has shown so many red flags, now she just lost it. She doesnt even like her, shes obsessed with her, so scary. Even after being screamed at she has the nerve to offer herself for sex??? Crazy *****
Not sure Naoi can get a rescue before things get even worst.

 

[bebopsushi]

Man she said she wanted something for herself how the fuck do you suggest fucking when the bitch literally said she can’t catch a break from you or her mom masturbation is her only thing for herself

 

[gagamaster68]

i loved the first few chapters of this series but its kinda completely gone off the rails

 

[Mr.Shadow]

Oh my god i dont like the direction where this is going. Things will really go off the rails next chapter

 

[Maoshin]

i loved the first few chapters of this series but its kinda completely gone off the rails

What do you mean by that? I think this series was always like that : P

 

[MathMols]

If they do it, then I am so done with this series…

 

[Eukene]

The window getting broken is likely with all the glass references on the last few chapter covers. Plus the window was how Naoi entered the house in chapter 11. Kokoro might've locked the door behind her when she came back in.

The glass is even lodged in Naoi's body, which would make sense if she came in through the window. The alternative would be like kokoro stabbing her with the broken glass, which is a level beyond what Kokoro's done so far. Though Kokoro does keep escalating...

Since it's a modern door lock that uses a card, it's pretty likely that either it locks itself automatically or there's a locking button on the outside. I also don't see Kokoro leaving the door unlocked so that randos can come in.

I want to find again those countless people talking so much crap about Naoi and saying that Kokoro was a good girl lol Talk about not reading the room. Kokoro has shown so many red flags, now she just lost it. She doesnt even like her, shes obsessed with her, so scary. Even after being screamed at she has the nerve to offer herself for sex??? Crazy *****
Not sure Naoi can get a rescue before things get even worst.

I feel like what's well written is that Kokoro kind of had a point for a lot of this situationally, never completely but often partially, yet the net effect is that she keeps escalating and doing crazier things. Like checking Kurumi for injuries in her sleep is pretty weird, but also understandable for Kokoro to be worried when she had been unsure Kurumi was even alive (which even Kurumi seemed to feel bad about) and Kurumi keeps showing up with more injuries. That's different than "molesting Kurumi in her sleep" with sexual motivations.

However, once Kokoro crosses a boundary, she seems more comfortable crossing it a second time and then going even further. Like, last chapter, Kokoro seemed to be comfortable grabbing Kurumi and forcibly restraining her while holding to her when she wouldn't have in previous chapters. Now it seems like we're setting up some kind of sexual assault or rape attempt in this chapter. So red flags were there, but some of us could see Kokoro's perspective and how that leaves room for reflecting and deescalating.

Kokoro actually considers deescalating at various points, only to discard that option and go with escalating more and more. Rather than Kokoro always being this bad, it's more like we got her descent into madness where she considers fixing her behavior before discarding the possibility in favor of seeking more control and engaging in progressively crazier actions.

 

[Nica_S]

I want to find again those countless people talking so much crap about Naoi and saying that Kokoro was a good girl lol Talk about not reading the room. Kokoro has shown so many red flags, now she just lost it. She doesnt even like her, shes obsessed with her, so scary. Even after being screamed at she has the nerve to offer herself for sex??? Crazy *****
Not sure Naoi can get a rescue before things get even worst.

Even worse, she's obsessed with the 'fake' her

 

[Mistilteinn]

However, once Kokoro crosses a boundary, she seems more comfortable crossing it a second time and then going even further.

Part of the problem is that basically no one ever holds Kokoro accountable for her actions. Kurumi always ends up pretending everything's okay even when she's uncomfortable. And since Kokoro is bad at reading between the lines, if someone tells her it's okay, she takes it at face value. Kurumi accepting Kokoro's apology at the end of this chapter was a big mistake for that reason, because if Kurumi can seemingly forgive that then Kokoro likely gets it into her head that Kurumi will forgive anything she does. Even though Kurumi was just telling Kokoro what she wanted to hear to avoid conflict at the moment.

Naoi pointed out Kokoro's tendency to give empty apologies at the start of chapter 8. And Kurumi went off just this chapter about Kokoro constantly apologizing, yet keeps doing bad things and then worse. An apology is meaningless if you keep purposely doing the behavior you felt was bad enough to apologize for. It's like an abusive spouse. Kokoro's reckoning is when she's finally held accountable for her actions and forced to pay for them. If Naoi does break out a window for example, it could alert the neighbors and the police would be called. Then both Naoi and Kurumi would point the finger at Kokoro for all of the disturbance.

Even worse, she's obsessed with the 'fake' her

I really want to see Kokoro's reaction if she finds out that Kurumi was faking her personality for pretty much the entire time that they knew each other. Since that would mean all of Kokoro's efforts were in vain from the start. Kokoro could even be very angry at both Kurumi and Naoi. Kurumi for "deceiving" her and "leading her on", while Naoi "set her up" by teasing her into thinking that she'd slept with Kurum in volume 2.

 

[LiquidArsenic]

this is peak

 

[Mistilteinn]

Actually, Kokoro's lack of awareness about accountability may have been teased in chapter 3. "If they just dropped it and it happened to break, no one would blame them if they told the truth". Even Kurumi was shocked at Kokoro's naivety. The class would have every right to be angry if someone took something without asking and then damaged it, especially since it was something that was meant to be important to the entire class.

This sounds like when parents try to teach their kids to be honest by telling them they won't be in trouble. But then maybe Kokoro learned the wrong lesson and started bending facts to suit her desires. For example, Kokoro was likely only cleaning so she could eavesdrop on Kurumi in the bathroom. So, her cleaning was technically true, but not her actual motivation.

 

[mogzig]

Holy hell, this series was already cooking and now it’s somehow managed to escalate beyond even my speculation. Kuwabara is absolutely the goat of toxic yuri. Thanks for the TL!

 

[Eukene]

Part of the problem is that basically no one ever holds Kokoro accountable for her actions. Kurumi always ends up pretending everything's okay even when she's uncomfortable. And since Kokoro is bad at reading between the lines, if someone tells her it's okay, she takes it at face value. Kurumi accepting Kokoro's apology at the end of this chapter was a big mistake for that reason, because if Kurumi can seemingly forgive that then Kokoro likely gets it into her head that Kurumi will forgive anything she does. Even though Kurumi was just telling Kokoro what she wanted to hear to avoid conflict at the moment.

Naoi pointed out Kokoro's tendency to give empty apologies at the start of chapter 8. And Kurumi went off just this chapter about Kokoro constantly apologizing, yet keeps doing bad things and then worse. An apology is meaningless if you keep purposely doing the behavior you felt was bad enough to apologize for. It's like an abusive spouse. Kokoro's reckoning is when she's finally held accountable for her actions and forced to pay for them. If Naoi does break out a window for example, it could alert the neighbors and the police would be called. Then both Naoi and Kurumi would point the finger at Kokoro for all of the disturbance.

This is more or less my reading as well. Kurumi and Kokoro are bringing out the worst in each other through respective hangups. Kokoro isn't great at understanding how other people are feeling in the first place. Her apologies are really about seeking support and expressing her fear of social consequences. If there are no consequences, not even a "I'll forgive you if...", then the message she gets is that what she did isn't that bad and she can keep doing it.

While there were smaller isolated instances early on of Kokoro forcing Kurumi back into the facade, the turning point was Kurumi agreeing to date Kokoro. What Kokoro needed was a clear and firm rejection to help her begin the process of moving on. We do know Kurumi felt forced to agree due to the situation with her mother. That's even a situation Kokoro herself created, albeit unknowingly. It's still the opposite of what Kokoro needed in that moment.

This continues with Kurumi, for example, saying that she thinks they should break up because Kurumi is afraid of hurting Kokoro. Someone other than Kokoro could read between the lines. Kokoro needed an explicit "I'm breaking up with you because I don't want to be in a relationship with you. Here's what I need going forward if you want to stay friends." Nothing else could cut through Kokoro's lack of social skills and habit of living in her fantasies.

The more invested Kokoro gets, the harder the landing is going to be for her. We're already at the point where Kurumi can't handle the situation alone. I'm going to continue to maintain that Kokoro is not, like, evil. She's nonetheless developing a set of skills that will lead her down a very dark path as an adult if she continues to use them.

[Edit: I increasingly think the toxic exes arc is not setting up a misunderstanding between Naoi and Kurumi. What I predict is Naoi and Kurumi freeing each other from the burden of their past. Naoi is not going to have any hesitation about explaining to Kokoro about how crazy she's acting. Kurumi can explain to Naoi that Naoi isn't really responsible for how Kudou turned out when Kudou has just been doing what she wants the whole time.]

I really want to see Kokoro's reaction if she finds out that Kurumi was faking her personality for pretty much the entire time that they knew each other. Since that would mean all of Kokoro's efforts were in vain from the start. Kokoro could even be very angry at both Kurumi and Naoi. Kurumi for "deceiving" her and "leading her on", while Naoi "set her up" by teasing her into thinking that she'd slept with Kurum in volume 2.

Personally I don't think Kurumi's personality was ever entirely fake. Kurumi really does care about having a good impact on others, which is why she helped Kokoro in the rabbit cage back when she had nothing to gain from it. It's also clear to me that Kurumi really did value Kokoro. That's why the first chapter depicts Kokoro as a source stout support in a sea of faceless students. It's also why Kurumi has tried so hard to repair their friendship despite everything, though I think Kokoro has ended that possibility with the events of this chapter.

At some point, Kokoro just started to value her fantasies about Kurumi over Kurumi herself. It's unclear what it's going to take to make Kokoro realize that. It seems likely that, in the end, Kurumi and Kokoro are just not good for each other and will have to go their seperate paths.

 

[Mistilteinn]

[Edit: I increasingly think the toxic exes arc is not setting up a misunderstanding between Naoi and Kurumi. What I predict is Naoi and Kurumi freeing each other from the burden of their past. Naoi is not going to have any hesitation about explaining to Kokoro about how crazy she's acting. Kurumi can explain to Naoi that Naoi isn't really responsible for how Kudou turned out when Kudou has just been doing what she wants the whole time.]
.....
At some point, Kokoro just started to value her fantasies about Kurumi over Kurumi herself. It's unclear what it's going to take to make Kokoro realize that. It seems likely that, in the end, Kurumi and Kokoro are just not good for each other and will have to go their seperate paths.

My best guess is that Naoi will end up comparing Kokoro and Kurumi's relationship with her parents failed marriage. While Kokoro needs to learn to respect boundaries, Kurumi needs to learn to clearly set them and hold people to them. Depending on how serious the series wants to go, Kokoro could even end up in a juvenile training school that will try to rehabilitate her, since Japan is huge into rehabilitating underage offenders.

This incident will likely have an effect on their class. Rumors obviously. Akane will probably have a big reaction to whatever happens to Kokoro, most likely a negative one. And the teacher will most likely be furious that something happened that people will say he should've seen coming, especially since it might come to light that he hid the incident just before summer break. But ultimately, this incident will likely help define how Kurumi acts when she goes back to school. Such as holding the other student council members to certain standards and not being the teacher's errand girl anymore.

As for Kudou, I think it's way too early for her to step down, even if Naoi confronts her. She'll likely continue to cause trouble until she's also forced to learn a lesson. If she does transfer to their school, she could end up dragging their other classmates into the mess. She seems very manipulative. Though Naoi might not stay her only target. If she annoys the wrong person and they lash out at her, that person could also end up as an unwanted target of her lust.

 

[Eukene]

My best guess is that Naoi will end up comparing Kokoro and Kurumi's relationship with her parents failed marriage. While Kokoro needs to learn to respect boundaries, Kurumi needs to learn to clearly set them and hold people to them. Depending on how serious the series wants to go, Kokoro could even end up in a juvenile training school that will try to rehabilitate her, since Japan is huge into rehabilitating underage offenders.

This incident will likely have an effect on their class. Rumors obviously. Akane will probably have a big reaction to whatever happens to Kokoro, most likely a negative one. And the teacher will most likely be furious that something happened that people will say he should've seen coming, especially since it might come to light that he hid the incident just before summer break. But ultimately, this incident will likely help define how Kurumi acts when she goes back to school. Such as holding the other student council members to certain standards and not being the teacher's errand girl anymore.

As for Kudou, I think it's way too early for her to step down, even if Naoi confronts her. She'll likely continue to cause trouble until she's also forced to learn a lesson. If she does transfer to their school, she could end up dragging their other classmates into the mess. She seems very manipulative. Though Naoi might not stay her only target. If she annoys the wrong person and they lash out at her, that person could also end up as an unwanted target of her lust.

We have so many loose plot threads that I've given up on predicting too far ahead. The story could have ended at the end of volume 2 and been satisfying, but instead we've continued to get new plot points. Akane, the teacher going on a date with one of their students, Kudou having been avoiding school (she could already be in their class for all we know), etc.

It's interesting how not discouraged Kudou was this chapter, though. She doesn't seem to feel threatened by how much Naoi likes Kurumi. That could mean her behavior is conscious manipulation of Naoi in a dishonest way, which would be in line with the childhood flashbacks where we see her appearing to intentionally provoke Naoi. It's possible Kudou will see Kurumi as yet another way to provoke Naoi.

I like the idea of Kokoro going to prison and being rehabilitated, as we're getting to the point where it would take events of that level for the reader to forgive her. Realistically, I don't know if someone micromanaging her schedule while teaching her education/job skills would really help someone with Kokoro's specific issues. Plus, if we listed everyone who's likely to deserve jail time by the end of this, then Kokoro would have a narratively implausible amount of company, starting with that very questionable teacher.

 

[Mistilteinn]

It's possible Kudou will see Kurumi as yet another way to provoke Naoi.

I like the idea of Kokoro going to prison and being rehabilitated, as we're getting to the point where it would take events of that level for the reader to forgive her. Realistically, I don't know if someone micromanaging her schedule while teaching her education/job skills would really help someone with Kokoro's specific issues.

I have to wonder if Kudou would do something such as teaming up with Mine, which would likely yield some ugly results. It feels like Kudou enjoys taking advantage of Naoi's temper and protective instincts. But given that Naoi knows Kudou's goal and Kurumi likely will as well this volume, they may have to come up with a way to get her to back off. Though that situation would also drag Azuma, Isanuma, and the teacher into things.

As for Kokoro, juvenile training schools in Japan also provide counseling. The goal of such schools is to attempt to resolve the emotional and behavioral issues that helped lead to the underage offenders' actions. Bascially, it feels like Kokoro was literally designed for such a place. It might also be leading to another parental abandonment, if Kokoro's parents basically disown her after her actions become public knowledge. I can't imagine that Kokoro would take going from zero consequences to pretty much every consequence in the blink of an eye well.

 

[Eukene]

Personally I am not a big fan of counseling, which I suspect would be less effective in a detention environment rather than more. The type of skill CBT alleges to teach is pretty much what Kokoro needs, but I haven't seen a lot of evidence that it successfully teaches that skill. In any case, this is fiction where counseling would work if the author wanted it to work, but Kokoro is generally non-criminal except when it comes to Kurumi. Naoi and Kurumi don't trust authority figures like the police and I don't think anyone else would be in a position send them after Kokoro.

Then again, who knows what will happen in future volumes. There will have to be a shift in Kokoro's character arc at some point (whether it's backing Naoi/Kurumi or being put in a position where she can never threaten them again) because there has to be a limit to how far we can take this. However maybe the author will surprise me again and we'll somehow get another full volume of Kokoro getting even worse.

I think Kokoro does have a supportive family who won't abandon her. We haven't seen a lot of them, but they seem like typical parents. Kokoro herself doesn't understand the concept of not trusting the adults, which is why she doesn't understand Kurumi and Naoi at all when they behave like the abused kids they are. I think it's safe to say that Kokoro trusting her parents to be on her side has gone well for her thus far, at least.

 

[Mistilteinn]

Naoi and Kurumi don't trust authority figures like the police and I don't think anyone else would be in a position send them after Kokoro.

Kurumi threatened to call the police on Naoi's father in chapter 13. She ultimately didn't, she didn't even have her cell phone after all, but she at least hasn't discarded authority figures entirely the way Naoi has seemed to. And what they do want is moot if a neighbor hears a commotion and calls the police to investigate. I don't see either of them covering for Kokoro after what she might try to do to Kurumi next chapter in that situation. And ultimately, even if Kokoro is released for whatever reason, Japanese schools are very against scandals so at minimum if the incident is reported she'd likely get expelled.

Another option is Kokoro's parents coming to Kurumi's house to pick her up, since she seemed to disappear all day and took stuff from their shop it seemed she wasn't supposed to. If they walk into a mess, I don't think they'd want her near Kurumi ever again. Possibly even viewing Kurumi as the source of the problem.

I generally think Kokoro will leave the school for whatever reason due to Akane seeming set up for her own arc. No character in this story is purely innocent and Akane spiralling in some way as a result of unintentionally pushing Kokoro in a bad direction would fit with that. Or if Kokoro just seems to mysteriously transfer out and Akane assumes it had to be Kurumi's fault somehow.

 

[deathpigeon]

And ultimately, even if Kokoro is released for whatever reason, Japanese schools are very against scandals so at minimum if the incident is reported she'd likely get expelled.

Kokoro has largely been a good girl in the eyes of the school. Kurumi and Naoi have been troublemakers. Kokoro was also invited by Kurumi's mother who wouldn't cover for Kurumi and definitely not Naoi.

Naoi and Kurumi are more likely to be expelled over a potential scandal than Kokoro.