Rework how the new comments system is to be implemented

[Insignis]

I love MD. I am so used to daily checking my manga feed. Click on comments - no comments nothing happens, comments are there it opens the forum thread. Click on chapter to open it. All in new tabs. Then I read comments, read chapter comments were about. Read chapter and potentially post a comment if there were no comments yet. Or just read comments if its about chapter I already read, just from different group.

Now opening comments opens that damn chapter with some special side tab, showing me last comment or telling me to pay to read/comment/something before others. It automatically marks that chapter as read, so if I just want to read comments, I need to go to the chapter, click the link to the forum in the new panel, close said panel, click on the manga title to go to its main page, and uncheck the "seen" mark, to keep stuff clean like it was before.

Not to be rude, but who ever designed this change has no clue what clean UI/UX is or they were forced by someone to make the site worse, to make fake "viewed/seen" marks appear on as many chapters and their versions as possible, and/or make people dislike commenting to close the forums? Cause like this is just bad.

 

[shinya78]

You want to put this new comments tab alongside the content, great! So why the button we have been using for years to direct us directly to the forum has changed its purpose? If people wanted to comment within the chapter, they should just click the specific chapter, leave the forum button alone.

Also, I don't even think there should be a link in this comment tab to the forum discussion, you are forcing people to use a feature they don't necessarily want to reach the place we would get with just one click.

This is exactly what this suggestion is for, to give users the freedom of choice. The reasoning of "users will be confused" is still flimsy as ever, because in practice users will use what they want to use. The decision isn't so much as a consideration to the user, but rather a push to urge users to use their new "fancy" social network style system. The statement "two systems cannot coexist with the same weight" shows their clear preference of one over the other, it's meant to make the decision for the users, and not to make the users decide.

The visibility of the forum discussion link in the comment tab helped, but it really shouldn't be this way. It makes you wonder if this was all a decision from higher up the ladder that the devs couldn't ignore for some reason, but that's tinfoil hat territory.

 

[Singulo]

Well that's it. The forum is as good as dead, the only reason this forum is as active as it is compared to the rest of the forums on life support was the discussions to be had.

It was nice while it lasted, I really liked mangadex's chapter discussions and the forum as a whole. Felt like a blast of the past from the days where forum culture was a dominant aspect of the internet.

Forums and imageboards are dying out in favour of monetization and homogenization of the internet. This is just a another nail in the coffin. such a fucking shame to see mangadex fall into the same corpo rot that befall the internet. Everything needs to be streamlined and dumbed down to the lowest common denominator in favour of accessibility that is locked behind a stupid paywall (its a temp feature, just like the ads which are supposedly ""temporary"". Those have been here for a year or so now.)

Even if the comments are unlocked for all users there is something there that is precious that is lost in the transformation. A sense of community and the sort? Its not the same. Theres no incentives to explore the forums further and interact with it as a community. Its tucked away in a hidden cranny for no new users to find.

Besides, comments and discussion are two separate things. comment system is a common thing in a lot of aggregator websites. Most of the comments are frankly speaking pretty surface level. Theres is no discussions to be had. The forum is one of the pros mangadex has over other websites. The type of discussions that is more in depth and engaging, tthe community and userbase are also a notch above than most. But, this completely disincentivizes such thing. Given time the userbase will also degrade into one similar to othef aggregator websites


But who I am kidding here? Talking my ears off wouldn't do anything to stop the slopification, no other userbase of various websites has been able to do so before, no reason we aren't the same.

At least I can say my proper goodbyes to this walking corpse, I give it a couple years before the forum is shut down for lack of usage and interest

 

[Insignis]

I already lost half of my commenting "needs". Cant be bothered to comment on chapters released by groups I don't read, cause stalkering forum or taking care to remove seen status is to annoying. So I only read/comment on the manga chapters I actually read. But even on those I am kinda losing my patience, cause most of the time button opens the chapters with the new panel, and the new panel just has link to the forum, and no comments displayed, even thou there are some on the forum linked to.

They basically shittificated the site, cause who knows why. Maybe it will get slightly better when the new commenting will be released to everyone not just some groups for now, and maybe they won't remove forums like they said they will keep it, but if reaching forums will be hidden behind some 3 dots buttons and require so much work to reach - most people would simply stop giving a fuck - like I probably would.

So basically commenting is now dead. Groups will have hard time getting feedback. Some maybe will decide to leave the sinking ship. Making a thread on the forum to discus recommendations for an alternative will probably get closed fast. So probably time to stalk google for other manga sites, and test their search/feeds/etc - preferably with the ability to import XML files that you can export from MD using some community made tools?

The funny thing if you can even call it that, is that when ever I am forced to go to other site, to read manga that is on those other sites, but isn't on MD cause DMCA/group bans - part of me is annoyed those other sites often don't have working comments, or forums, or if they do - its some external site embedded in - that you need a separate account to often even read stuff. But I am to lazy to go to MD to look if on the forum there are some discussions about that manga to post. Now MD is basically doing the same inside MD - aka forcing me to do to much just so I could discus stuff.

 

[Kosnope]

So why the button we have been using for years to direct us directly to the forum has changed its purpose?

By the way, this really highlights the disingenuous nature of their arguments.
"Users will get confused if there are 2 buttons for 2 systems (instead of 2 systems in 1 button which is even worse)". But completely changing the functionality of a button used for years isn't confusing??? MFers, we are the users, the only confusing thing here is why the button no longer works as it did. Yet they act as if the entire community is now strangers, and like they are planning to parade this new system in front of a brand new audience, completely ignoring and scorning the established userbase.

Why the fuck doesn't the confusion of the entirety of current userbase count, but some future non-existant new users' confusion is so much more important than our UX? It's like those fucking companies chasing 'modern audiences' and shitting all over established franchises.

 

[TGN]

Hey, dev here. Even though I don't bear the positive news you want to hear, I still think it's good to drop a reply here in light of you being honest and taking the effort to level your suggestions while also considering the general UX.

I'd like to start with our motivation. Basically, we want to put the engagement adjacent to the content, just like every other platform does. Right now, even though it has been the case for years, it's not so straightforward to comment. You need to be redirected to another site (forums), and log in again if you haven't already (and if it's your first time on the forums, agree to the specific forum rules).

An argument against a separate system would be to integrate the forum comments within our main site's UI, but for technical reasons this proved to be a bad idea the longer we delved into it. A new, clean system was a far better bet given our resources.

We do want to keep the forums, which is why we're still linking to them on the chapter comments drawer, and based on current consensus, we plan to continue to do so even after the comments have been enabled for everyone.

However, two systems cannot coexist with the same weight because the regular users will get confused and wonder what it is they should use. In such case, as a developer, you need to choose which to encourage. It makes sense to encourage the kind that is right next to the content because that is the easier way for the user to comment.

From what I can tell, you don't wish for the new on-site comments to undermine the forums for discussions. I don't know how it'll end up in the future, and I can't guarantee anything that I can't personally make sure will or will not happen. If it helps, the comments on-site are going to get better with more features.

One thing I could recognize from your concern is the fact that the "Read N more comments on the forums" (the "older" wording will get amended) link at the bottom of the on-site comments could be buried if there's a lot of comments posted. For that reason, I got to add a link to the forums on the header of the comments drawer, so it'll always be at a stable place.

Therefore, sorry, but I think having two buttons of equal weight on the reader menu for the same purpose (adding a comment) is not something we can do. Additionally, the comment button on chapter cards cannot open the link to the forums because that'd be confusing and make the user miss any on-site comments made. We're making a lot of updates to this whole flow and a new release is underway to polish a lot of things. For starters, as another user requested, I've made the comment button on the chapter cards open a drawer with the comments list without navigating to the reader. Doing the best I can to make sure it satisfies everyone's needs without throwing every idea in the mix.

I don't often post here but yeah thank you for looking out for the site, and sorry I couldn't get your suggestions to implementation.

Yo, here's a really big brain idea. Why don't you take that comment, and make it an announcement thread so that everyone can see it WHEN YOU MAKE THE CHANGE. Do y'all really want your explanations to be buried that badly? PR cannot be that hard.

 

[Sparrowhawk]

Just hopping in to say I also think the new comment section blows goats. I don’t think y’all shoulda fucked with it. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it tbh. OP shouldn’t have had to write the Illiad to explain why it sucks, and the response was also a massive text dump to say lol no. God, this is so stupid.

 

[shinya78]

OP shouldn’t have had to write the Illiad to explain

It's perfectly fine lol, I've written longer posts here in the forums.

 

[Sparrowhawk]

It's perfectly fine lol, I've written longer posts here in the forums.

Still, you shouldn’t have had to. People have largely hated the change and the devs have dug in their heels like they’re Blizzard announcing their shitty new phone game. People were even getting insulted by staff in a previous thread, making us out to be idiots for not liking the change then locking the thread. Like, Jesus Christ on a crystal cross, what do we have to do? Put it on a billboard? It’s frustrating and stupid. I understand how to use it now but it’s annoying af. I know nothing will change no matter what anyone says, so I’m basically getting this shit off my tits. Everything is being enshittified these days.

 

[Trevoga]

aight can someone hit me up when there's a working solution to make the comment button redirect here like it used to? clearly the devs don't give a fuck about us pennyless plebs having to click the button to open the new shitty premium comments and hope there's gonna be a working button redirecting to the poor forums, so I guess it's time for stylus or greasemonkey solutions

 

[HaikenEdge]

why the fuck does a pirate website with already existing deep discussions on basically any manga chapter needs more engagement?

Cuz corporate said so.

Obvi.

 

[cybeast21]

It's one thing if someone like me (a free user) voices dislike about the scroll/social media/whatever it called comment system, but when the supporter also voices dislike and it results in nothing?

Like, I really don't get what's the point of the social media style commentary at all, it provides no advantage compared to the forum system.

User who want to engage will engage anyway, and those who are silent reader, will still be silent reader, regardless of forum/social media style comment.

 

[shinya78]

aight can someone hit me up when there's a working solution to make the comment button redirect here like it used to? clearly the devs don't give a fuck about us pennyless plebs having to click the button to open the new shitty premium comments and hope there's gonna be a working button redirecting to the poor forums, so I guess it's time for stylus or greasemonkey solutions

See that new button with the overlapping text-bubble icon? That's the forum redirect button now, sure it takes 1 more click to get there, but it's there.

 

[Trevoga]

See that new button with the overlapping text-bubble icon? That's the forum redirect button now, sure it takes 1 more click to get there, but it's there.

yes, this is exactly what new features should do - add extra clicks and waste the user's time with zero benefit
I'm starting to think you don't actually mean anything with your suggestions or anything else you say and just like posting

 

[shinya78]

yes, this is exactly what new features should do - add extra clicks and waste the user's time with zero benefit
I'm starting to think you don't actually mean anything with your suggestions or anything else you say and just like posting

Brother, you have more posts than I do. What exactly did you think THIS SEPARATE SUGGESTION that I opened way earlier is for?

 

[Trevoga]

What exactly did you think THIS SEPARATE SUGGESTION that I opened way earlier is for?

evidently it is for you to later tell me something I already know like that button's existence solves anything

 

[shinya78]

evidently it is for you to later tell me something I already know like that button's existence solves anything

Take a breath, slow down, and listen. I'm throwing every suggestion that I could think of to land at a favorable compromise, that of which has a higher chance of satisfying both parties no matter how slim the odds. It's not like I'm completely on-board with this move either, I want it to be THE BUTTON just as much as you do.

If their decision bothered you that much and want them to just revert the whole thing back to what it was, then instead of just complaining about it, why not open your own suggestion thread and see how that goes?

 

[ireadit]

So, I'm pretty happy with how things work now that the fixes have been deployed to prod. Although you still need two clicks to go the forums instead of one, but well, it's a lot better than it was before.

However... Somebody created a user script to get the old comment system behavior back, but it looks like their post was deleted. If that wasn't by choice (I guess the script might be obsolete?), then that's not a very good look. This is the notification I got, but the post doesn't exist anymore:

 

[havelmom]

I don't know if things are being phased in
but clicking on the comments from the title page just opens the chapter, not the comments (not even the new comment section)

rollback is always an option

 

[Trevoga]

instead of just complaining about it, why not open your own suggestion thread and see how that goes?

how's that working out for you, big man?

 

[shinya78]

how's that working out for you, big man?

instead of asking me that, when are you going to open your own suggestion thread, little man?