Jinsei Gyakuten - Uwaki Sare, Enzai wo Kiserareta Ore ga, Gakuen Ichi no Bishoujo ni Natsukareru - Ch. 12.1

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While I may have said Miyuki was acting like a foolish child up until this point, now that she has made the active choice to not reflect on her actions, it's time for Miyuki to face the consequences of her stupidity.

I'll even hand her the shovel so she can keep digging.
 
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The manga did Kondo justice! Whenever he appears, i really want to see him get slapped lol.
Now, i wonder if the manga skips some content or instead add more embelishment to make it better than the WN.
 
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Well, somewhat excessive, but her main crime here was not the NTR stuff, is everything she did after that.
MC almost killed himself because of all the accusations she made against him, so yeah, what she did was pretty fked up.
And as some people said, she keeps digging her own grave
Too add, Miyuki never made the accusations. (That was Kondo, or more that was Kondo releasing the Photo and a false story via others, and those like her friend Ritsu going "Vigilante" wanting JUSTICE without bothering to truly confirm the true story because of a mix of her OWN BIAS AND HATRED towards Eiji meaning she refused to give him the benefit of the doubt, and Miyuki doing what she does best with Ritsu when she acts antagonistic towards Eiji....keep her mouth shut and let her do what she wants! This also goes a long way to fucking her over as much as it does Ritsu once the truth gets confirmed)

But her refusal to correct them and allowing Kondo and Ritsu (Ritsu being the BIG PATSY Kondo can use to keep his hands off of it, not that it matter with the fact once evidence of him grabbing her is established, he AND Miyuki cannot deny they knew about that picture, especially Kondo's assault on Eiji that he lied about!) to do as they do doesn't look great for Miyuki. Though that's in the case of the students once the truth comes out. Miyuki's silence assured no one gives a shit about "her side of the story" anymore or at all! Just as her silence "made the story in others heads" against Eiji....so TOO does her silence "made the story in others heads AGAINST HER!" AND Kondo won't be around (lucky him GRRRR) to be a target for the malice....only SHE IS!

Miyuki still in the end lied about not knowing anything and stonewalled the investigation trying HARD not to accuse Kondo, even WHEN warned this would negatively effect Eiji. (Since otherwise it DOES look like he grabbed her and fearful of getting him in trouble as well as Kondo, but more in favor of Kondo, Miyuki chose to be silent and misdirect, at the end throwing Eiji under the bus though HOPING he isn't punished much if at all to protect Kondo, trying to "stay neutral only assured "she sided with Kondo" like a DOPE!) The second she left that room KNOWING this, she sealed her fate as Kondo's Accomplice and she knows it by the time it catches up to her (not that it matters at that point to her, she's ALREADY been exposed as a "lying cheating skank that framed her innocent BF and CF" she can't protect a reputation that is DESTROYED at that point BY HER OWN HAND/ACTIONS no less!)
 
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In the latest manga chapter, the
Convict and criminal Tachibana
has appeared
 
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I’m not surprised that Miyuki became a hoe and keep downgrading herself to the point of being a mage hoe, guessed she got all of her genes from her father side and nothing from her mother side
 
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Otaku-kun: moshi moshi FBI, there's some unholy wrestling match happening in that hotel.
FBI [on their way to catch them Red handed ]
 
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Can't say I much enjoy the "mind control" tropes for the villains. It's such a cheap device that takes away from worldbuilding. It allows the author to justify the villain having powerful backing and funding without having to explore why that is the case and prevents anything actually interesting being able to happen, like subverting his/her base of power, turning allies against them by playing to their goals etc. The only way forward is just an altercation.
Yeah, but if it works it works. Some I DISLIKE is if the Charmed are STILL held to the actions they commited while not themselves! I think "The one within the villainess" did it good, not so much it's novel form, after it became a LN and so a Manga as well! Well it addressed the CHarm in a way that I like and find acceptable to hold the CHARM against the Charmed

The charm only makes them think positive of the one who charmed them, it is NOT Mind control! Meaning their shitty actions towards the one who reincarnated as the Villainess were their OWN DOING (From her adoptive brother who wanted to make her his woman and so thought if she lost her engagement and got disowned, she'd have to rely on him, to even her fiancee who was a little bitch who while he SHOULD be happy she helped him with his confidence and family issues, had the BALLS to believe "she needed to be humbled") Their excuses and that knowledge only SUPER JUSTIFIES FMC (The titular Villainess who came out to avenge the girl who worked so hard to try and save her only to be met with ungrateful POS! The "Heroine" was one thing, herself a VICTIM since HER Reincarnate unlike the FMC had no care about destroying said girls life out of pure selfishness! But the Men FMC "ally" helped hoping to save FMC from her bad end turning on said girl for petty stupid reasoning if not SELFISH in the case of her adoptive brother who crossed lines hoping to win her when it's obvious he was trying to put her in a position of no power so he'd be her only choice to survive so "yeah how romantic!" (Said "SUPER Sarcastically")
 
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Yeah, but if it works it works. Some I DISLIKE is if the Charmed are STILL held to the actions they commited while not themselves! I think "The one within the villainess" did it good, not so much it's novel form, after it became a LN and so a Manga as well! Well it addressed the CHarm in a way that I like and find acceptable to hold the CHARM against the Charmed

The charm only makes them think positive of the one who charmed them, it is NOT Mind control! Meaning their shitty actions towards the one who reincarnated as the Villainess were their OWN DOING (From her adoptive brother who wanted to make her his woman and so thought if she lost her engagement and got disowned, she'd have to rely on him, to even her fiancee who was a little bitch who while he SHOULD be happy she helped him with his confidence and family issues, had the BALLS to believe "she needed to be humbled") Their excuses and that knowledge only SUPER JUSTIFIES FMC (The titular Villainess who came out to avenge the girl who worked so hard to try and save her only to be met with ungrateful POS! The "Heroine" was one thing, herself a VICTIM since HER Reincarnate unlike the FMC had no care about destroying said girls life out of pure selfishness! But the Men FMC "ally" helped hoping to save FMC from her bad end turning on said girl for petty stupid reasoning if not SELFISH in the case of her adoptive brother who crossed lines hoping to win her when it's obvious he was trying to put her in a position of no power so he'd be her only choice to survive so "yeah how romantic!" (Said "SUPER Sarcastically")
I can't agree with that conclusion about being charmed. If a magic effect keeps your opinion about someone positive, no matter their behaviour, then it's still mind control. You are utterly unable to make sound judgement where that person is concerned. IRL, being incapable of rational judgement is enough not to be held responsible in court (though you might get institutionalized).
 
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Ok so I'm all caught up with this fast food in manga form. What WN chapter does this line up with so that I can follow along with that as well?
 
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I can't agree with that conclusion about being charmed. If a magic effect keeps your opinion about someone positive, no matter their behaviour, then it's still mind control. You are utterly unable to make sound judgement where that person is concerned. IRL, being incapable of rational judgement is enough not to be held responsible in court (though you might get institutionalized).
No what I meant by the example from "the one within the Villainess" was that the Charm itself only makes the Victim think Positive of the one who charmed them! It does not control any other actions. Even if the Charmer demands you KILL someone you care for. You won't do it unless you WANTED to do so yourself! So say you got charmed and they told you to kill someone you were already going to kill BEFORE the charm..Not "you might have, YOU WERE!" then you would do so in a "no need to tell me twice!"

The Reverse harem in that can't use the excuse of mind control to justify their actions! I can see though that yeah you COULD make a case because at the end of the story when she delivered the Karma, she first made SURE what was left of the Charm in them was dispelled because while it didn't mind control them, it DOES allow them an easy escape from blame (By loving the fake heroine, they can convince themselves they weren't in control of their actions, which they WERE, no partial, they WERE! The Charm was just a convince to escape responsibility and if they have to, push the blame onto the Fake Heroine

Then again it's still a TRY! I can see your point because of a story I read that manga name I forgot, but basically the FMC was condemned as a Villainess, you know the spiegal with the add that her MOTHER was being punished with her under the excuse that she wasn't her father's child and her mother cucked him! Later when the story starts proper when she's getting her life on track, one of the "Fish's" her childhood friend who helped in ruining her found her as the Kingdom she and her mother were forced to flee to was his! And he apologized for what he helped do! He broke free when he like the rest of the fishes became INSANLY CLINGY to her Half-Sister that he killed another man in a duel and was exiled, away from her and the Charmer (FMC father's second wife, the mother of said half-sister though the story HEAVILY implies she's just some pretty orphan girl she took under her wing and charmed FMC father into thinking was his child from a one night stand in order to get into the family, she is the REAL villain of the story) he is able to remember and so remembers all the terrible things he did and said, ESPECIALLY to FMC (As said, she was her father's daughter, false evidence and testimony was used to frame her and her mother to exile them, hell a point is made that FMC is also a witch like the Charmer, but the woman assumed without a teacher and now alone and abandoned, she'd die off somewhere! While it wouldn't matter to the Charmed, it was more to trick the people into thinking FMC and her mother were villains, as said the Charmer was hoping they'd die or suffer a bad end being two vulnerable women out in the wilds, who knows who might try to go at them! Still stupid of her to assume without confirmation!)

The story kind of has FMC go HARD on all the Charmed, holding them ESPECIALLY her childhood friend to account for what they did charmed even when told the details, though the fact she marries him (he's the ML) at the end kind of feels like the writer realized TOO LATE having the FMC be so unforgiving to mind control victims had her eventually change her mind and makes it more "she was hurting, after all she lost her home, her reputation, framed for something she didn't do, reduced to a commoner, have to take care of her mother who herself lost her mind and is so depressed, she partially blames FMC for their exile and woes. Just to be told "it was all mind control" must have set her off! She's pretty forgiving to her EX Half-sister as the story makes it clear she has NO POWERS, she was simply just a "smokescreen" by the Charmer and was basically a regular girl with no powers
 
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This guy here? Whistleblower-kun? He is going to be the single-handed greatest Anime character since Goku. He plays such a clutch role.
 
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No what I meant by the example from "the one within the Villainess" was that the Charm itself only makes the Victim think Positive of the one who charmed them! It does not control any other actions. Even if the Charmer demands you KILL someone you care for. You won't do it unless you WANTED to do so yourself! So say you got charmed and they told you to kill someone you were already going to kill BEFORE the charm..Not "you might have, YOU WERE!" then you would do so in a "no need to tell me twice!"

The Reverse harem in that can't use the excuse of mind control to justify their actions! I can see though that yeah you COULD make a case because at the end of the story when she delivered the Karma, she first made SURE what was left of the Charm in them was dispelled because while it didn't mind control them, it DOES allow them an easy escape from blame (By loving the fake heroine, they can convince themselves they weren't in control of their actions, which they WERE, no partial, they WERE! The Charm was just a convince to escape responsibility and if they have to, push the blame onto the Fake Heroine

Then again it's still a TRY! I can see your point because of a story I read that manga name I forgot, but basically the FMC was condemned as a Villainess, you know the spiegal with the add that her MOTHER was being punished with her under the excuse that she wasn't her father's child and her mother cucked him! Later when the story starts proper when she's getting her life on track, one of the "Fish's" her childhood friend who helped in ruining her found her as the Kingdom she and her mother were forced to flee to was his! And he apologized for what he helped do! He broke free when he like the rest of the fishes became INSANLY CLINGY to her Half-Sister that he killed another man in a duel and was exiled, away from her and the Charmer (FMC father's second wife, the mother of said half-sister though the story HEAVILY implies she's just some pretty orphan girl she took under her wing and charmed FMC father into thinking was his child from a one night stand in order to get into the family, she is the REAL villain of the story) he is able to remember and so remembers all the terrible things he did and said, ESPECIALLY to FMC (As said, she was her father's daughter, false evidence and testimony was used to frame her and her mother to exile them, hell a point is made that FMC is also a witch like the Charmer, but the woman assumed without a teacher and now alone and abandoned, she'd die off somewhere! While it wouldn't matter to the Charmed, it was more to trick the people into thinking FMC and her mother were villains, as said the Charmer was hoping they'd die or suffer a bad end being two vulnerable women out in the wilds, who knows who might try to go at them! Still stupid of her to assume without confirmation!)

The story kind of has FMC go HARD on all the Charmed, holding them ESPECIALLY her childhood friend to account for what they did charmed even when told the details, though the fact she marries him (he's the ML) at the end kind of feels like the writer realized TOO LATE having the FMC be so unforgiving to mind control victims had her eventually change her mind and makes it more "she was hurting, after all she lost her home, her reputation, framed for something she didn't do, reduced to a commoner, have to take care of her mother who herself lost her mind and is so depressed, she partially blames FMC for their exile and woes. Just to be told "it was all mind control" must have set her off! She's pretty forgiving to her EX Half-sister as the story makes it clear she has NO POWERS, she was simply just a "smokescreen" by the Charmer and was basically a regular girl with no powers
But even if you don't do some extreme thing that is demanded of you, since you're still forced to have a friendly disposition towards the charmer, you'll likely still work with them. Normally, you'd abandon someone who asked you to kill your family (or even turn hostile to them) but since you can't here, you're still of use to them in other ways, which makes you an accomplice or complicit at the very least and you can't do anything about it. Also, you might eventually be coerced into more and more extreme acts just by attrition, by having you do small ones that gradually get worse. There's also a range of psychological tricks that can be employed for that purpose, like the "reasonable favour". For example: "How about you season that guy's meal with some delicious arsenic? No? Jeez, alright, have it your way. We really need that cash he's hoarding though so just scare him a little into handing it over. You know it's for a good cause". Normally, this sort of thing only works as long as you can keep the target's outlook on you friendly and it risks spoiling it. In our scenario, this is not an issue and you can attempt it as many times as you like.

Consider, that real life cults accomplish all that and more without magic. They start with building the leader's image in your head, as someone good, trustworthy and worth helping in any small way you can. This step is the only one with a good chance to fail and your antagonist already has it for free, non-revocably. They use those fundations to slowly isolate you from your friends, family and community, cutting of support and deepening your emotional reliance on them. After that basically anything goes. Scientology members are well known to be willing to scheme, steal, even murder on command and they are not the worst bunch out there. Technically these people are still capable of making their own judgements, but most of the time they just don't, the cult programming is that powerful. Now imagine replacing it with magical charm.

This used to come up in some D&D sessions I played. Turns out it only takes a lv. 1 spellcaster with "Charm Person" and some clever planning to have someone unwittingly kill their friends for you (or get them into so much trouble that they are out of the picture regardless), despite the many limitations on the spell.
 
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But even if you don't do some extreme thing that is demanded of you, since you're still forced to have a friendly disposition towards the charmer, you'll likely still work with them. Normally, you'd abandon someone who asked you to kill your family (or even turn hostile to them) but since you can't here, you're still of use to them in other ways, which makes you an accomplice or complicit at the very least and you can't do anything about it. Also, you might eventually be coerced into more and more extreme acts just by attrition, by having you do small ones that gradually get worse. There's also a range of psychological tricks that can be employed for that purpose, like the "reasonable favour". For example: "How about you season that guy's meal with some delicious arsenic? No? Jeez, alright, have it your way. We really need that cash he's hoarding though so just scare him a little into handing it over. You know it's for a good cause". Normally, this sort of thing only works as long as you can keep the target's outlook on you friendly and it risks spoiling it. In our scenario, this is not an issue and you can attempt it as many times as you like.

Consider, that real life cults accomplish all that and more without magic. They start with building the leader's image in your head, as someone good, trustworthy and worth helping in any small way you can. This step is the only one with a good chance to fail and your antagonist already has it for free, non-revocably. They use those fundations to slowly isolate you from your friends, family and community, cutting of support and deepening your emotional reliance on them. After that basically anything goes. Scientology members are well known to be willing to scheme, steal, even murder on command and they are not the worst bunch out there. Technically these people are still capable of making their own judgements, but most of the time they just don't, the cult programming is that powerful. Now imagine replacing it with magical charm.

This used to come up in some D&D sessions I played. Turns out it only takes a lv. 1 spellcaster with "Charm Person" and some clever planning to have someone unwittingly kill their friends for you (or get them into so much trouble that they are out of the picture regardless), despite the many limitations on the spell.
Yeah I get what your saying (Also hello fellow DnD Nerd LOL) with charm! But you should take into mind that "different fiction have their own version of things" in this case "how charm is handled" as some of these stories can change "what counts as charmed!" As I said with the example manga that's name I still can't remember! I would say the Charm in that one is what you brought up with DnD, hence why I and others who commented under that story's comment section had issues with the FMC holding the Charmed to their behavior under it! Though it seemed the writer realized what you were saying, hence why the ML of that story ended up forgiven by FMC. It's just seen as FMC just being FURIOUS about the entire situation and being cornered like that and just lashing out but calming down and acknowledging none of the guys from her ex to her CF and her brother were themselves because of the Charm! Though the Half Sister was abit forgiven too easily, she never charmed, but she still was complacent and benefited from the Charmer's actions!

But with the "Within the Villainess" Charm had little to do with their complacence in the Fake Heroine's plans against Eri (The one within the Villainess Remilla, the FMC of the story), they willingly helped her for selfish to petty reasons against Eri that they were already considering doing anyway, the Fake just gave them the excuse to do so!

In the end it's the LEVEL of Charm and how much dominance it has, that effects in my opinion if you can be held accountable or not for your actions under it! Just saying "Oh you were 1% under Charm! Well that means all the murders you did under it are totally not your fault, especially since you already had BEEF with the victims before" You really want to avoid "The Devil made me do it" scenario's where just a HINT of Charm means "the charmed is innocent" because basically you have to ask how much DID charm affect the targets wishes to do the thing, and how much was their own free will. Absolving them completely is just WILLINGLY making someone a Karma Houdani just cause you want to find them innocent cause of your BIAS to mind control means you see ANYONE even under a small HINT of it as innocent of any crimes they did under it

It's about consciousness my friend! People have been manipulated into murder before, do we let them off cause they were manipulated! And don't go "This is different" because Manipulation kind of has a part to play in this mind control debate we're having!
 
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Yeah I get what your saying (Also hello fellow DnD Nerd LOL) with charm! But you should take into mind that "different fiction have their own version of things" in this case "how charm is handled" as some of these stories can change "what counts as charmed!" As I said with the example manga that's name I still can't remember! I would say the Charm in that one is what you brought up with DnD, hence why I and others who commented under that story's comment section had issues with the FMC holding the Charmed to their behavior under it! Though it seemed the writer realized what you were saying, hence why the ML of that story ended up forgiven by FMC. It's just seen as FMC just being FURIOUS about the entire situation and being cornered like that and just lashing out but calming down and acknowledging none of the guys from her ex to her CF and her brother were themselves because of the Charm! Though the Half Sister was abit forgiven too easily, she never charmed, but she still was complacent and benefited from the Charmer's actions!

But with the "Within the Villainess" Charm had little to do with their complacence in the Fake Heroine's plans against Eri (The one within the Villainess Remilla, the FMC of the story), they willingly helped her for selfish to petty reasons against Eri that they were already considering doing anyway, the Fake just gave them the excuse to do so!

In the end it's the LEVEL of Charm and how much dominance it has, that effects in my opinion if you can be held accountable or not for your actions under it! Just saying "Oh you were 1% under Charm! Well that means all the murders you did under it are totally not your fault, especially since you already had BEEF with the victims before" You really want to avoid "The Devil made me do it" scenario's where just a HINT of Charm means "the charmed is innocent" because basically you have to ask how much DID charm affect the targets wishes to do the thing, and how much was their own free will. Absolving them completely is just WILLINGLY making someone a Karma Houdani just cause you want to find them innocent cause of your BIAS to mind control means you see ANYONE even under a small HINT of it as innocent of any crimes they did under it

It's about consciousness my friend! People have been manipulated into murder before, do we let them off cause they were manipulated! And don't go "This is different" because Manipulation kind of has a part to play in this mind control debate we're having!
I didn't say that, but free will is not some threshhold you either cross or not. As I already described, you might have agency, but if a crucial element of your morality (like the ability to judge a person as malevolent and harmful) is magically taken away, then you can't really be said to have been truly in control of yourself. Think about it, we all have people we don't think much of, but would you give a guy that clearly just wants to use your hands to harm or kill them the time of day? Likely not, if only because you don't want to get in trouble on behalf of an asshole. What if you can't see him as just a manipulative asshole, no matter what? He doesn't need to be some authority to you, let's say he's a "trusted acquaintance", as per Charm Person's description. Of course, he doesn't just say let's go get them, he validates your grievances, makes up facts that cast the targets in an even worse light (and you trust him, so there's no reason to doubt it), tells you how someone must finally do something about this. Normally this is the part where you're being manipulated and critical thinking should step in: you'd ask yourself why is this guy suddenly your buddy, why turn to you in particular and why haven't you heard about all those nasty things he's been telling you before. Except, you can't. He's your trusted acquaintance, he wouldn't lie to you about something you've long since suspected. You still likely wouldn't just agree to stab them in the night, but acting to "expose" their supposed villany, or otherwise hinder them is suddenly on the table and it seems like a righteous cause, given all you've heard. That's all he needs for now, one thing will lead to another.

So in the end, can you be held responsible for something you wouldn't have done if you were not temporarily stripped of a mental faculty? Is it your fault for being made receptive to manipulation by a power you have no way of resisting? It's not just a question of who put you up to this: a rational person would slowly begin to doubt even a beloved family member if reasons for this kept turning up. Here you can not do that. You trust the manipulator, because the spell says so.
 
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I didn't say that, but free will is not some threshhold you either cross or not. As I already described, you might have agency, but if a crucial element of your morality (like the ability to judge a person as malevolent and harmful) is magically taken away, then you can't really be said to have been truly in control of yourself. Think about it, we all have people we don't think much of, but would you give a guy that clearly just wants to use your hands to harm or kill them the time of day? Likely not, if only because you don't want to get in trouble on behalf of an asshole. What if you can't see him as just a manipulative asshole, no matter what? He doesn't need to be some authority to you, let's say he's a "trusted acquaintance", as per Charm Person's description. Of course, he doesn't just say let's go get them, he validates your grievances, makes up facts that cast the targets in an even worse light (and you trust him, so there's no reason to doubt it), tells you how someone must finally do something about this. Normally this is the part where you're being manipulated and critical thinking should step in: you'd ask yourself why is this guy suddenly your buddy, why turn to you in particular and why haven't you heard about all those nasty things he's been telling you before. Except, you can't. He's your trusted acquaintance, he wouldn't lie to you about something you've long since suspected. You still likely wouldn't just agree to stab them in the night, but acting to "expose" their supposed villany, or otherwise hinder them is suddenly on the table and it seems like a righteous cause, given all you've heard. That's all he needs for now, one thing will lead to another.

So in the end, can you be held responsible for something you wouldn't have done if you were not temporarily stripped of a mental faculty? Is it your fault for being made receptive to manipulation by a power you have no way of resisting? It's not just a question of who put you up to this: a rational person would slowly begin to doubt even a beloved family member if reasons for this kept turning up. Here you can not do that. You trust the manipulator, because the spell says so.
Damn, this is heading to a "Agree to Disagree" for me at least

I get your point, and not mocking you! But I don't feel I can add or say what hasn't been said by either of us at this point

Good Debate though! (Plus for your end, I trust "the writer" as this is fiction! I get your point if it was a REALISTIC scenario, but if the writer wrote it as is, and DOESN'T pull what you said, which I will say I LIKE when they do it in a manner that feels realistic cause I DO SO HATE when it goes "just believe what the bad guy told you" where in a Session I was in. that lead to a NEAR Party Wipe! DM was funny pointing this OUT when I was the only one who actually felt the bad guy was sus, hence AVOIDING the trap, At least it assured I was alive to revive everyone, but boy were my fellows STEAMED even when I was like the ONLY ONE who agreed with the DM that "they brought it on themselves" by being too trusting! LOL)
 
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Damn, this is heading to a "Agree to Disagree" for me at least

I get your point, and not mocking you! But I don't feel I can add or say what hasn't been said by either of us at this point

Good Debate though! (Plus for your end, I trust "the writer" as this is fiction! I get your point if it was a REALISTIC scenario, but if the writer wrote it as is, and DOESN'T pull what you said, which I will say I LIKE when they do it in a manner that feels realistic cause I DO SO HATE when it goes "just believe what the bad guy told you" where in a Session I was in. that lead to a NEAR Party Wipe! DM was funny pointing this OUT when I was the only one who actually felt the bad guy was sus, hence AVOIDING the trap, At least it assured I was alive to revive everyone, but boy were my fellows STEAMED even when I was like the ONLY ONE who agreed with the DM that "they brought it on themselves" by being too trusting! LOL)
It's fine, I never accused you of mockery or anything like that.

Yeah, I think it's more fun to consider any world depicted by how it would believably react to events. This is why I often get frustrated with an author that writes it in nonsensical ways, pulls deus ex machinas or makes it pretty much unresponsive to what should be huge political or societal shifts, as if it weren't real people living there. I get that it's his work and fiction, but that's a failure in storytelling to me. Especially when it seems to stem from an unwillingness to get to know about the basics of the topic the story revolves around. I mean, I've seen manga about a blacksmith that makes steel swords by molding them... Granted, someone must have called him out on this, since in recent chapters, he quietly abandoned this idea :pacman: .
 
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It's fine, I never accused you of mockery or anything like that.

Yeah, I think it's more fun to consider any world depicted by how it would believably react to events. This is why I often get frustrated with an author that writes it in nonsensical ways, pulls deus ex machinas or makes it pretty much unresponsive to what should be huge political or societal shifts, as if it weren't real people living there. I get that it's his work and fiction, but that's a failure in storytelling to me. Especially when it seems to stem from an unwillingness to get to know about the basics of the topic the story revolves around. I mean, I've seen manga about a blacksmith that makes steel swords by molding them... Granted, someone must have called him out on this, since in recent chapters, he quietly abandoned this idea :pacman: .
Agree, as was said in my replies. If the writer DOESN'T clarify, then it comes off as you said, "the Mind Controlled" being held to account for their actions under mind control

When I brought up my example from "The One within the Villainess" that was the writer being CLEAR as the original Novel didn't do this ironically so you were left with the same feeling as you said, "Remilla blaming her Reincarnator's FRIENDS/FORMER HAREM for betraying her under mind control" with the added on the Charm Potions used on them that they only made them LIKE the Fake Heroine who used it on them more, however as descripted, the potions aren't mind control and if the victim was asked to do something they were against, even IF they were "in love with the Charmer" they would refuse to do the thing! In their case they all had "petty grievances" with Eri (the girl who reincarnated as Remilla) to being in love with her and only going along with the plan for the sake of getting Eri Abandoned and disowned with engagement ended with the HOPE of (that was her Ex Adopted Brother!)
I'm happy this, the Manhua "Villianess takes the Hourglass" and "Death is the only ending for the Villainess" CONDEMN this type of behavior as the "Ick" that it is! The whole "Adopted sibling incest" thing! It's only ick if they were RAISED as brother and sister, I say this as the elder brother to Six Younger siblings, three of those adopted, two girls who I never ONCE saw in a romantic light EVER, funny in a way that my BIL, the husband of the youngest of those two girls that I get along with has ALOT of my traits! I joke as I respect my BIL, but that sister is attached to me as I strove to be the BEST Elder brother to ALL my siblings, bio AND Adopted, no favortism, I'm the type of guy who you do me good, I do you GREATER and am ever loyal, do me dirty and well "I'll twice back what I was given, both good AND bad!" I mean in "Death is the only Ending" EVERYONE gets on her older adoptive brother's case once they find out about his attraction to FMC, to the point his "poor behavior to her and never wanting her to call him brother" was because he developed "love at first sight" to her when they were kids and she was first adopted and never let it go, it's also how in the story the Villain was able to get him on it's side with the Knight! Both were in love with her and it promised them her if they aided it, of course in a "I'm killing these dumbasses the second they help me free my race from the hell dimension we're locked in!" And HELL even IT was disguisted by the "Adoptive brother having incest feelings to FMC

Then Villainess takes the Hourglass has Aria, the FMC older stepbrother being in love or more LUST for her! Revealing his asshole behavior towards her was him being a Tsundere HEAVY on the "Tsun" part as in he had a "Sex is evil, and I am horny" hypocrite part of himself as he HATED FMC and her mother for being commoners and the mother "for being a former prosititue" same as his little sister because he was too much a bitch to hold it against his father for getting involved with Aria's mother and marrying her! But the hypocrite part was he was lusting for Aria, it's hinted he was EAGER to illegally execute her that first send her back in time thinking if he slew her as a "Jezebel" then he'd "conquer his hypocrizy" which Aria understandably is disgusted by once she learns of his feelings towards her, not that it STOPS her from taking advantage of it for her plans, which can't blame her since the plan was the COMPLETE ruin of her stepfather, AND stepsiblings for what they did to her and her mother in the first timeline! Her mother was NOT amuzed either once she discovered his feelings towards her daughter, reminder she lived with them long ENOUGH that the "Siblings REGARDLESS" is in effect now! Even his own sister disgusted as well didn't hestiate to take advantage of it to manipulate him as well! Namely when she CRIPLLED their father trying to frame FMC for it with the implication he could have her house arrest and taking their father's title means he can PRACTICALLY turn Aria into his mistress and she couldn't do a thing about it! Of course her plan was to kill Aria and her mother like she did in the first timeline, but she needed him on her side as otherwise SHE would be pinned for the crime of almost killing their father! Of course it backfires on them both! But you get the idea)

I got no issue with this trope if say they were BOTH only siblings in their older age for a short time as that would make me a HYPOCRITE as a lover of the "Childhood friends to lovers" trope since in a way that "we're like siblings" can also have that tone evenif their NOT really siblings in the adoptive or bio context

In the end they had selfish reasonings behind complying with the Fake Heroine's wish (the fake Heroine actually was stupid and assumed they WERE under mind control, Remilla ironically knew they weren't thanks to Eri's memories of the game, namely that the Game Flavor text and the mechanic in gameplay made Charm Potions "Easy Support Point boosters" for the sake of filling up the Support gauge on the "Fishes" so that was made "IRL" Logic "makes it easy to have good disposition with the Charmer!") At least the writer DID give a EXPLAINATION for why Remilla shows them NO MERCY (unlike the fake Heroine, she more or less "takes back the good will Eri gave those fools" namely Eri wanting to get them to like Remilla for the sake of SAVING HER from loneliness and her canon bad end! By that I mean all the things Eri helped them overcome, their "character developments" Remilla causes events to UNDO those developments, making them go back to the pitiful states they were in BEFORE Eri interfered with them AND with the fake Heroine gone, and the real Heroine gone as well! NO ONE IS HELPING THEM OUT OF THOSE SITUATIONS)

But yeah I do agree I dislike when the mind controlled are held to the crime of what they did under said control!

I think someone in I believe THIS forum for this chapter pointed out their feelings towards those "manipulated" and those "manipulated like Miyuki was" the latter he has NO pity for as nothing was mind controlling them or anything and they walked into the Mouse Trap of their own idiotic free will" And I agree. If there was LITERALLY no way to stop or foresight, I am forgiving, but if there was and the idiot chose to obey out of ignorant "what could possibly go wrong" despite knowing better, then YES they should be held to task!
 

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