100-man no Inochi no Ue ni Ore wa Tatteiru - Vol. 1 Ch. 5.5 - Zombie Mansion

[comeonnow0]

@twinklecake Literally nothing that you said went against anything that I wrote. I gave reasons and explanations for harem tropes and subtropes. Then you come along and say no, and then you don't even give any explanation.

Look, I get that I'm wrong about this series. I already accepted that, and I said it from the very beginning. But you have given zero explanation for why what I said about harem tropes is wrong.

 

[Twia]

Harem is a genre/plot frame that is mostly present in the Japanese media of anime, manga, Light Novels, Visual Novels, and Video Games. It typically features a High School–aged male lead with at least two (usually at least three and often a lot more) available girls who may be actively interested in him but at the very least are bound by circumstances to be close to him.

There you have it what is Harem. If you guys using the first definition it's not the traditional Harem genre. But in a sense it is based from the second definition (really a surprise). So the girls doesn't have to interested to the guy, but if they are somehow have to be close with him.
Just like this manga.

@comeonnow0
@twinklecake

 

[lolfacesayshi]

Isekai mangas usually be like "I Am Only Able To Use Low-Grade Magic But I Have Infinite MP And A Horse Cock?!"

meanwhile this manga's system having Low Grade Magic be
- a puff of wind
- increases temperature of wand to 24°C

 

[dextersTomato]

Im expecting the girls will be clinging to MC....
Such an adventurous MC he is, he died quickly and no prince to rescue to the girls....

 

[Digi-Lib]

@oldchangeling it's pretty easy for them to all die or fail their mission. Especially if the people are hindering them. Remember, they can't harm other people or they will lower their levels and they aren't much stronger than normal people. I think the author made a good balance with them not being op but not being weaklings.

 

[Digi-Lib]

@comeonnow0 It's not a harem, dude. I don't see how having 1 male character partnered with 3 female characters triggers harem vibes unless that is all you're focused on and not the characters and plot. None of the girls are interested in him romantically. He is not a likeable person and there will be more characters joining the group who are more likable than him. Did Sailor Moon trigger harem vibes for you too? Tuxedo Mask was not only likeable, but he was in a romantic relationship with 2 of the female characters. Demographics is not enough to see something as a harem. Plot is far more important. Hell an all male cast could be a harem. Same with an all female one.

 

[comeonnow0]

@Digi-Lib You are ignoring everything else that I said about why I felt that way. I don't really feel like repeating myself at this point, but there were other reasons. You also missed the fact that I explicitly said that I had only read through chapter 6 at that point and that I admitted I could be wrong.

Honestly, your issues were mostly already answered by what I wrote.

 

[Pheanix]

@AnotherRat What a great avatar, found it or made it yourself?

 

[AnotherRat]

@Pheanix Ofc I found it online. Source xd

 

[Pheanix]

@AnotherRat thx buddy, didn’t know of this website

 

[Digi-Lib]

@comeonnow0 No, I read all your replies to the others. And I addressed your main points of your non-existent "harem vibe." None of your talking points were valid for this series. Yes, that includes the first 6 chapters you read.

You brought up a bunch of other series to illustrate that just because "harem" isn't an official sub-genre, it doesn't mean it isn't a harem. So I brought up Sailor Moon to make a point.

You also told others that instead of looking at the list of genes, focus on what happens in the plot. I also addressed that talking point. Mostly that you didn't focus on the plot at all, instead you just looked at the demographics of the main characters and established "hmmm, this gives me harem vibes." You've accused others of either not addressing what you said or not providing an argument to refute your talking point. But I actually did listen and I did refute them. Anyone who reads my initial reply with a basic understanding of English and context can see that.

 

[comeonnow0]

@Digi-Lib Anyone with a basic understanding of English and context will see that YES, what I said does still answer what you said. Don't act like you're so obviously right when it's an issue of opinion, of whether something fits in certain genres or not.

Imagine if Fruit of Grisaia had absolutely zero romantic notes. Just imagine the pure demography of one male main character in a school literally filled only with females, and then his adult contact is a woman as well, and the only antagonists are males. No romance. YES, that is still a prima facie case of being a harem. YES, the demography of the characters in the story DOES make a case for "harem vibes". This could be refuted in some other way. Maybe the sole male main character is gay. Then it's not a harem. Maybe there's some actually logical explanation for why it's setup like this. Then it's not a harem. However, yes, that does still give "harem vibes" ALL ON ITS OWN.

You gave an example of Sailor Moon. Yes, the demography DOES make a first case look of being a harem. However, guess what? The main character of Sailor Moon is not Tuxedo Mask. It's Sailor Moon! That's a detail that changes things.

As to the rest of what you've said, I will go into detail, but just because you disagree with me doesn't mean that what I said wasn't already responsive. Again, we are talking about a matter of opinion. There is no official definition of what is part of the harem genre and what isn't. Imagine if I said this car is the best car because it has X and Y features. Then you say no, you think it's not the best car because it lacks W and Z features, and after that I don't respond. Guess what? My lack of response after that doesn't matter! Yeah, you obviously disagree. My point still stands for the reasons that I said. The only exception here is the counter-example of Sailor Moon because counter-examples actually refute what is initially said. If you said other car has X and Y features but is a bad car, then that's responsive.

I didn't focus on the plot? Are you stupid? Within the first six chapters (again, it's just the first six), we see one sole male main character. HE is our vantage point. He is THE main character. Not any of the girls. HIM. Then we see HIGH SCHOOL AGED girls one after another become involved with the MC. Then we see that they are all bound together and cannot escape their situation. Look at the specific odds. Assume the population is 50% male, 50% female. In a world of random chances, it's a 50% chance the MC is male. It's then a 25% chance that the MC is male and the first companion is female. Then 12.5% that MC is male, first companion female, and second companion female as well. Then it's 6.25% that it's male, female, female, and female. Look at those actual odds. Then add in the fact that they're all high-school aged, the PRIME target for harem series. YES, that is enough to setup a case that this has harem vibes!

That's not even getting into his personality, which, let's be honest, IS likable to the readers. Oh, herp derp, aloof male lead who doesn't really care about others and is more adept at dealing with the situation than the others. Where the hell have I seen that before? Kirito from Sword Art Online? Literally a crap load of harem protagonists are like this. And you can come back and say no, that's not likable. In the end, that's a difference that we can't settle definitively. And yes, I did not say this in my previous messages, but this is a point.

Good grief, your post was just full of self-entitlement like herp derp, you're so obviously right, you're the last one to type anything, so you must be right. YES, demographics do setup a case for harem vibes, but that doesn't mean it's definitely a harem. I made my case for why it looks like a harem in the first few chapters, and guess what? At least one other person agrees that it looks like a harem. It's ONLY the people who already read beyond that are like no, it's not a harem. But guess what? That doesn't mean my position doesn't make sense even if it's ultimately wrong.

I wrote way too much to respond to your nonsense.

 

[jorgelotr]

Quite interesting that this has been left out from the volumes.

@XXXXXXXXXIII another weird thing I've seen around is a version of the series seemingly drawn by the writer, with the exact same events and dialogue, similar panel layout, but atrocious doodle drawings. I've own a digital copy of volume 5 that was temporarily given away for free at BookLive.

@comeonnow0

Just as a question to confirm, is it still just one male character (the MC) and then no other significant and likable male characters in the same age range (roughly 15 to 35)? If the answer is yes, I would still call that as having a lot of harem tropes even if there aren't the classic harem shenanigan

The 4th player is a guy slightly older than the glasses girl (currently the oldest), then comes a 20-something american lesbian woman, then a 30-ish black company-worker guy with glasses. Also, there seems to be several independent groups of players from other countries. Given the randomness of it all, it's a miracle that the first 3 players are from the same school, grade and class.

As a side note, the guy is more popular with natives than with compatriots.

 

[comeonnow0]

@jorgelotr Thank you for the information.

As for that other version, I would just assume it's a storyboard copy, where the author lays out the plan for it and then hands it over to the artist to actually draw.

 

[XXXXXXXXXIII]

@jorgelotr Yeah that is exactly what you described, just an atrocious doodle with the exact same dialogues and panels. Nothing more.... I think that's a promotional thing they had

 

[Digi-Lib]

@comeonnow0 So basically, with this long winded reply, you admit that the only reason this manga gives you this imaginary "harem vibe" is the demographic make up of the characters. Which is not what constitutes a harem. A harem requiers multiple characters in a group being in or wanting a romantic relationship with another character. The reason I used Tuxido Mask as an example is because a harem plot doesn't require the main character to be the center of the harem. They can be one of the love interests. They don't have to be male, nor do they have to be straight. These are irrefutable facts, not opinions. The only similarity this series has with the examples you've provided was this initial demographic. In other words, you're trying to uses your feelings as a way to reinvision the 1st 6 chapters.

Even your description of this argument is flawed. It's more like you're saying "this is the best car" even though you only looked at the tires (as in only read 6 ch) while I and many others have driven the car. Pretty sure our opinions on the car and its features would hold more weight.

No, you didn't pay attention to the plot. They are not high school age, they are in middle school. And yes the girls are involved with the male MC, but I noticed you conveniently left out the fact that they aren't romantically involved with him. And none of them are romantically interested in him. This alone is enough to prove your "harem vibe" is all in your head, and not at all part of the plot. Every story has characters requiring to be involved in some degree to the MC. That's how stories are typically made.

Your 50% male/female population rant is also moot. The characters were not picked at random, they were specifically picked by the "game master." The girls were told to make contact with the MC. Just like the MC was told to make contact with the 3rd main female character. This was explained early in the series. So I'll have to ask you what you asked me. Are you stupid? Or are you just being dishonest?

And regarding your Sword Art Online example. Do you know why that is a harem and this series is not? The answer is because most of the females he is around are romantically interested in the MC. And Kirito is a more likeable character in that series than Yotsuya is in this series. The girls he's around give him flack, despite his "I can do it on my own" attitude, he often fails and has to either rely on the group or the people he's supposed to be helping. He's also manipulative. When I say he is not liked, I'm not referring to how we, the viewer sees him. I'm referring to how the people in the story sees him. And their treatment of him is quite different from how Kirito is treated in SAO.

If you want to critique posts of someone acting self-entitled, you need only look at your own replies to those who responded to your posts. Either you accused them of not providing an argument, or you accuse them of not reading all you posted. You are just exuding pretentiousness.

Demographics do not set up a case for "harem vibes," it's the plot that sets up the case. I don't know what kind of media you saturate your brain with but when I see 1 guy hanging out with 2 or 3 female friends, I don't automatically assume he's in a harem. I have to observe their relationship, how they behave with each other, take not to certain physical reactions when the male is close to one or more of them. This may be news to you but males and females can just be friends with no hidden romantic feelings.

You've made your case for why it looks like a harem, but you reasons are not valid. As explained above. Essentially your only argument is the demographic make-up of the group. Oh so because you got 1 validation of someone you think that supports you rhetoric? There are plenty of people who think the earth is flat. Like you, they don't pay attention to the facts. Even when I first started reading this series I did assume it would be a harem. I thought it would be a horror. The name is rather morbid and the first few pages were kinda dark and gritty. I was focused on the plot, it seems you and one other were just focused on "herpa derpa 1 guy 3 girls, must mean harem!" And that's fine, but it only shows a lack of observational skills and an ability to follow a stories plot.

So there, now I've made an unnecessarily long response to your remedial drivil. I guess that makes us even. Looking forward to your next collection of excuses.

 

[comeonnow0]

@Digi-Lib So basically you admit that you're illiterate and can't actually read my comment.

Yes, demographics are a major consideration. There are other considerations that I made, such as the antagonists all being male. That's a common trope in the harem genre. The main character, who is male, being more adept at handling the situation than all of the other characters. That's another common trope in the harem genre. And yet you ignored me when I said those things because you just don't know how to read.

No, you are wrong when you say that a harem requires that multiple characters in the group are or want to be in a relationship with another character. Let's be clear. That's what A harem is. That is not what the harem GENRE is. The harem GENRE is known for using particular tropes and literary shortcuts to build up to a certain point (the harem). Therefore, when you see a story engaging in those same tropes, the logical reaction is to say there are "harem vibes".

Are you actually stupid? From the VERY BEGINNING, I said I only based my comment of "harem vibes" on the first six chapters. Then you come in like herp derp, I've actually driven this car, I've actually read more of the story, and it's not a harem. Good for you. That DOES NOT negate what I said. BASED ON THE FIRST SIX CHAPTERS, does it seem reasonable to think this is a setup for a harem series? YES. END OF STORY.

Your paragraph on me not paying attention to the plot was dumb as hell. First of all, I use "high school age" loosely since where I am, they would be considered high school age even though they are technically in "secondary" or "intermediary" school. They're still in the same age range. Then you say that they aren't romantically involved with him. Look above.

Here's the problem, and I'm separating this out. You put forward your own definition of what is a harem and what is part of the harem genre. I have put forward my definition. Then you whine and moan when I say that this story looks like it meets my definition. You whine and moan by saying herp derp, comeonnow0 is wrong because it doesn't meet my definition of a harem. Screw your definition! I have put a completely separate one forward, ONE THAT OTHER PEOPLE AGREE WITH.

Are you stupid? The AUTHOR picked these characters. The 50% male/female is HIGHLY relevant. Why did the AUTHOR make the choice to write about these characters? Why did the AUTHOR make these decisions. Here we are literally talking about story genres, and then your dumb as hell comment says that the game master chose it. By your own asinine logic, if a game master puts one male in the middle of a literal planet of only women, then you don't pay attention to that fact. That doesn't make it a harem. That's your logic. That's your idiocy.

---

Okay, at the end of the day, you're being so dumb and self-centered that you can't even look past your own biases. I don't have to prove that I am correct about this being a harem series. Very obviously I said that I am wrong, AND I ADMITTED THAT FROM MY FIRST COMMENTS. The only thing I have to prove is that what I said was REASONABLE. And guess what? Another comment already agreed that THE FIRST SIX CHAPTERS look like a harem. That means that my opinion is shared by others. That means I am reasonable.

The difference between this and the Earth being flat is that there are objective standards to prove that the Earth is not flat. THERE IS NO OBJECTIVE STANDARD FOR WHAT CONSTITUTES HAREM TROPES. These are tropes. These are literary shortcuts. You come in like herp derp, you decide what constitutes a harem trope and what doesn't.

Literally every single time that you whine about observational skills shows your own ignorance of how OTHER STORIES actually act. It shows your ignorance of how harem stories use SIMILAR TROPES.

You are so self-centered that you can't even begin to imagine that someone disagrees with you on a matter of opinion, on a matter of genres.

---

Here's a challenge. Find three series that have a similar premise that are NOT harem series. Male, teenager lead who shows above-average proficiency and skill. Three female companions. All forced to work together for some common goal. Specifically published in a shounen collection; that means it is marketed towards adolescent boys. Find three manga or anime series like this that are NOT harem series.

 

[Digi-Lib]

@comeonnow0 Wow, you're wrong on so many levels.

No, demographics is not the major consideration, the actual plot is. And regarding your talk about antagonists all being male. That is not a trope in harems, that is a trope in most stories period. Males are typically the main antagonists in stories. So to call this a harem trop is disingenuous. Of the first 6 chapters, the antagonists were monsters and bandits. A trope in practically all action adventure stories. What is a trope in a lot of harems is a female antagonist appears and kidnaps the MC to try and make him fall for her. It doesn't happen in all harems, but it happens enough to call it a trope. Your example, that is just typical of any story. So it isn't a harem trope. Nice try. The reason I didn't address that one before is because I thought you were joking. Now it seems you really meant that nonsense. Oh and regarding your talk about the male lead being more adept at handling situations. Did you forget that you only read the first 6 chapters? Of course the writer is going to make the main character look competent to start. Funny how you seem to ignore all the failures he suffered in those chapters. In fact, in the 4th chapter (you know, one of the chapters you supposedly read) the MC gets one-shot by a knight. He is far from this OP all knowing mega chad. He starts out with the weakest stats and it is only due to him grinding by killing goblins that he was able to catch up to the rest of his party, but he's still weaker than the vet in his group at the time of your reading. You are likely projecting themes you've seen in other stuff you read. And I'm betting most of it were harems. No wonder you see it everywhere.

Wow, way to change the meaning of harem to encompass anything just to fit your narrative. In this context, when people talk of harem, they generally mean a kind of story in which a male character is accompanied by multiple female characters who are in love with him. Interesting how it isn't the case in this story. All you have to go from is demographics. If all the characters were of 1 sex, you wouldn't assume it was a harem. If anything, you'd probably assume the female lead was a lesbian judging by what the MC thinks about the girls. Still, no harem vibe. Because all you have is demographics, the other 2 talking points weren't even indicative of harems, but story telling as a whole or weren't even present in the 6 chapters you claim to have read.

No, but it seems you are stupid. The reason I addressed your car analogy was because it was an inaccurate analogy to summarize this argument. But it seems you didn't understand the context. Not surprising considering your "harem vibes" from a story that isn't a harem.

Yeah, I'm not buying your "herp derp, I used 'high school age' loosely because of where I'm from." You likely used high school because you thought they were in high school. And no, none of the girls in his group are romantically involved with him. That's a fact.

No, I didn't put in "my" definition of what a harem is. I put in the definition. Or an abbreviation of it. Let's see what the actual meaning is as relating to genre. "Harem is a kind of story in Japanese anime and manga where a male character is surrounded and loved by many female characters. ... The term orginates from the Arabic word "hareem" which literally means women and was also used to refer to one man many women like a sultan hareem." So, wrong again. You're not wrong because it doesn't meet "my" definition of what a harem is. You're wrong because it doesn't meet the actual definition of a harem. You're crying because I'm correcting you on the actual facts about the series, this you cry, claiming I'm using "my" definition of a harem. So now the truth comes out. You were never using the real meaning of harem during your arguments, you were using your own made up meaning for it only to project that I was using my own made up meaning. Dude, your mind is scrambling. I don't use my own individual meaning for words, I use the universally understood meaning for words. I can see now why you accused others of not reading or understanding your posts when they reply to you. You're practically usinging your own language. No doubt anytime the argument doesn't go the way you want, you'll just fall back on "duh, I'm just using my own meaning for words. It's your fault for not understanding." You are such a try hard. This is hilarious!

Okay, since you clearly don't understand context, I'll summarize. In your previous vapid rant, you said "Look at the specific odds. Assume the population is 50% male, 50% female. In a world of random chances, it's a 50% chance the MC is male. It's then a 25% chance that the MC is male and the first companion is female. Then 12.5% that MC is male, first companion female, and second companion female as well. Then it's 6.25% that it's male, female, female, and female. Look at those actual odds." You were talking about the odds of this happening. You weren't talking about the author making it that way. My response was this wasn't done by random chance. All the characters were chosen by the game god. But now you're moving the goal post to "duh we're talking about story genre, the author picked them." I don't even have to ask if you're stupid. I already got the confirmation. And you're dishonest. Nice strawman fallacy. You're comparing my statement that 1 male being allied with 3 girls doesn't make them a harem to "dah, 1 male on a planet with only women." The idiocy is all coming from your side. Likely due to all the harem stuff you absorb.

The projection coming from you is palpable. You accuse me of being bias and self-sentered then you follow up with "I don't have to prove that I am correct about this being a harem series." All this time you were trying to act like your opinions were based on the 6 chapters you claim to have read. But here lies the truth. Yeah, I know you admit that you were wrong to call this a harem. I'm saying your reasoning, or lack there of, for assuming it would be a harem.

Well, actually there are objective standards for what constitutes a harem. It's a word for a reason. We give meaning to words. And we, that is to say sane people agree to that standard. In this context, as shown in the definition above, a "harem is a kind of story in Japanese anime and manga where a male character is surrounded and loved by many female characters." Your talk of

Literally every vapid reply you make, you only further illustrate that harems is your main intake of literary media. Just because all the content you read is a harem, doesn't make this a harem. The only trope this series has that is in many harems is it starts with 1 male character working together with 2 female characters, then a 3rd joins the group. The main element in all harems (the romance) is non-existent. Thus negating any expectation of this being a harem.

That's not what the disagreement is regarding. By making up your own meaning of words then complaining that no one understands your grunting as you change things to mean whatever you want in a given situation. That is self-centered.

And regarding you juvenile challenge. Your description of this series is off. Firstly the male lead doesn't show above average proficiency and skill. He fails quite often. Secondly, as of the current population 2 other males and a lesbian are in the group. Your poorly summarized description of this series would inevitably provide only harems to appear in any given catalog search and you know that. Which is why you intentionally mischaracterized the plot. Your dishonesty is clear to see.

Hell, I can be just as dishonest. Find 3 anime or manga with a group comprising of 3 straight males, 3 straight females and a lesbian woman that IS a harem. That's just as disingenuous as your poorly summarized description. But, I've come to expect this from you.

 

[comeonnow0]

@Digi-Lib Way to fail at what should be a simple challenge. I asked you to provide examples of other stories that start with one male main character and three female companions. You could've provided me with any story similar to this where male companions join after the first four. You did not. You FAILED.

Yes, that description would provide only harems BECAUSE THAT'S THE POINT. This specific kind of setup of one male being forced to work together with three females is TYPICAL of a harem series. That fact alone shows the reasonability of what I said. Are you stupid? That alone shows that it is completely understandable to think that this has "harem vibes".

The difference between my challenge and yours is that mine is based on the first six chapters, WHICH IS WHAT THIS WHOLE CONVERSATION IS ABOUT. You keep trying to be absolutely stupid and putting the cart before the horse. You're basically saying I know this isn't a harem series, so no way in hell did it ever look like a harem series, even in the first six chapters. I don't need to complete your challenge because your challenge has NOTHING to do with what this discussion is about.

I'm done arguing if you're going to do these mental gymnastics to suit your own needs. I can respond to your other bad points like harem genre is exactly what you say or the main character here doesn't have above average proficiency even though it's pretty obvious that he does. The above issue shows that you already acknowledge that this would fit the description of a harem series. You're just lying to yourself and lying to me when you say that it doesn't look like that.

 

[Digi-Lib]

@comeonnow0 So glad I can wake up to a laugh. That's not how you described the series in your previous comment. Nice attempt at gaslighting. "Find three series that have a similar premise that are NOT harem series. Male, teenager lead who shows above-average proficiency and skill. Three female companions. All forced to work together for some common goal. Specifically published in a shounen collection; that means it is marketed towards adolescent boys." I'm not an anime thesaurus but I can tell bullshit when I see it. And that's exactly what your little pathetic attempt was.

Too bad your little description is not accurate to this series. No, I'm not stupid, but you certainly are for thinking that putting up an inaccurate description of the series then verbally masturbating, thinking you somehow triumphed. Like I said, when none of the female members are romantically interested in the male main character, it is not a harem. That's the point of harems, not the demographics, but the actual plot in the story. The fact that you wouldn't assume this series was a harem if the demographics were any different is proof of that. Because 1 male and multiple females is just 1 type of harem.

The only accurate description you made regarding this series was the demographics as of chapter 6. But again that's not the only element in a harem. Funny how this is the only thing you're replying about now. Especially considering I refuted all the other talking. Including This our by the way. This is the hill you're trying to die on; the fact that a group was a one point comprised of 3 girls and 1 guy. That is pathetic.

Mental gymnastics? You mean like when you make a claim, then say "herp derp, I was using my own definition. It's you guy's fault for not understanding." That's not mental gymnastics? How about when you argued that it would be unlikely for a group to be comprised of 1 male and 3 female based on the demographics of the humans population; *(basically arguing that if this was a random selection, this group would be statistically unlikely)* only to later say after I refuted that talking point "dah I we were talking about the author picking this group." Kid, you've been doing mental gymnastics from the very start. This is confirmation that projection is how your mind works. You project what you assume a harem to be on a series where none of the main females who travel with him are romantically interested. You project that the male lead is some super skilled bad ass despite him dying more often than the others in his group and even was shown losing to a knight in the tournament. Yet to you, he's super skilled and is always right. Yeah, you are done.

Oh and my talking point was never "harems is exactly what I say it is" in fact, I provide the universally accepted meaning on what a harem is. Straight from Wikipedia. Funny how you never addressed that, instead you've been continuing on this false narrative that I'm making up what harem means. No, kid. That was you this entire time.

Not even your poor description that you wanted me too look up fits a harem series. Because, and here's the important part, NONE OF THE GIRLS IN THE GROUP ARE ROMANTICALLY INTERESTED IN THE MALE LEAD! This is why it isn't a harem. Remember what an actual harem is? Let me remind you. "Harem is a kind of story in Japanese anime and manga where a male character is surrounded and loved by many female characters." This isn't my made up definition, this is literally the first meaning that pops up on Google search. If anyone is being dishonest it's you.