A Royal Princess with Black Hair
- Thread starter MangaDex
- Start date
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2019
- Messages
- 377
Idk... i feel uncomfortable reading this, the villains are so stupid and act so out of place, nobles here are loud, barbaric, emotional, into violence and narcissist lol. The twins one, how could she be obsessive and be normal in a span of days because of FL punch yikes.
I totally agree this is when Gary Stu be paired with Mary Sue, Maybe the author expect us to think that the FML is a badass or smth but damn for me she's so annoying and has 0 charm... just a poor Mary Sue. The ML's character is better. Idk if i want to continue this, the story is a mess, but let's see...
I totally agree this is when Gary Stu be paired with Mary Sue, Maybe the author expect us to think that the FML is a badass or smth but damn for me she's so annoying and has 0 charm... just a poor Mary Sue. The ML's character is better. Idk if i want to continue this, the story is a mess, but let's see...
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2018
- Messages
- 38
I just can't read this manhua. The East Asian standards of ideal beauty are just so different and difficult for me to understand. I don't get how being as pale as a vampire and so utterly skinny that the ML would describe her as capable of being 'blown away by a gust of wind' makes the FL stunningly beautiful. That's not to say there aren't beautiful women with pale skin or slim figures: I find Kat Denning (quite pale naturally) and Kristen Stewart (quite slim by my estimation) to both be very pretty.
What bothers me is how dire the weight issue is. I thought that human biology gave females curvier proportions to make them more attractive, and yet we see the FL looking so famished and dainty that it affects her balance and coordination on an everyday basis, and somehow that's supposed to be attractive? Even then, the handmaids aren't satisfied with how skinny she already is and want to starve her further.
I just can't understand how an unnatural skeletal figure can be attractive. I guess everyone has their individual preferences, but this seems more to be an unrealistic ideal rather than a reflection of what people actually find attractive, or perhaps the ideal itself has shaped cultural preferences in East Asia. I really don't know since I've never lived in that region and have only interacted with Chinese and Japanese expats. All I can say is that humoring the idea that the FL as so unbelievably pretty just feels too off-putting and jarring that I can't even focus on the plot anymore.
Moreover, I just can't understand how certain cultures around the world can have unbelievably accurate descriptions of what beauty is. Maybe growing up in Africa with the wide range of body diversity and potpourri of local ethnic tastes has given me tinted lenses on the subject of beauty. To me there are so many different types of beauty out there that's so easy to appreciate. It just seems so obvious to me that beauty is in the eyes of the beholder and shouldn't be defined by narrow cultural ideals.
Anyways, sorry about the rant. Guess I was kinda triggered by the FL's appearance. Perhaps I'm just ignorant about East Asian standards of beauty.
What bothers me is how dire the weight issue is. I thought that human biology gave females curvier proportions to make them more attractive, and yet we see the FL looking so famished and dainty that it affects her balance and coordination on an everyday basis, and somehow that's supposed to be attractive? Even then, the handmaids aren't satisfied with how skinny she already is and want to starve her further.
I just can't understand how an unnatural skeletal figure can be attractive. I guess everyone has their individual preferences, but this seems more to be an unrealistic ideal rather than a reflection of what people actually find attractive, or perhaps the ideal itself has shaped cultural preferences in East Asia. I really don't know since I've never lived in that region and have only interacted with Chinese and Japanese expats. All I can say is that humoring the idea that the FL as so unbelievably pretty just feels too off-putting and jarring that I can't even focus on the plot anymore.
Moreover, I just can't understand how certain cultures around the world can have unbelievably accurate descriptions of what beauty is. Maybe growing up in Africa with the wide range of body diversity and potpourri of local ethnic tastes has given me tinted lenses on the subject of beauty. To me there are so many different types of beauty out there that's so easy to appreciate. It just seems so obvious to me that beauty is in the eyes of the beholder and shouldn't be defined by narrow cultural ideals.
Anyways, sorry about the rant. Guess I was kinda triggered by the FL's appearance. Perhaps I'm just ignorant about East Asian standards of beauty.
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2019
- Messages
- 54
@Zakyrie, maybe don't dunk on specific body types or features (pale, thin) to make a point about beauty standards. (“I thought that human biology gave females curvier proportions to make them more attractive” Really? I guess biology done goofed on all the flat chested, not so curvy women out there? Not cool to cast folks’ natural bodies as unnatural mistakes of biology, my dude.)
If you're projecting your own tastes onto a silly webtoon to the point that you can't even focus on the plot so indignant you are that a heroine described as beautiful doesn't cater to your gaze, you should really examine what that says about you. If the heroine was depicted in a busty, fanservice, instagram model kind of way that objectified her in line with your own preferences but still promoted unrealistic standards, would you be as annoyed? If the answer is no, then think on it a bit more.
That said, don't starve yourselves, ladies! Those scenes were indeed effed up!
If you're projecting your own tastes onto a silly webtoon to the point that you can't even focus on the plot so indignant you are that a heroine described as beautiful doesn't cater to your gaze, you should really examine what that says about you. If the heroine was depicted in a busty, fanservice, instagram model kind of way that objectified her in line with your own preferences but still promoted unrealistic standards, would you be as annoyed? If the answer is no, then think on it a bit more.
That said, don't starve yourselves, ladies! Those scenes were indeed effed up!
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2018
- Messages
- 38
What's wrong with projecting my own tastes into a webtoon? The author him (or her)self has certainly done so. I'm also curious, what does wanting instagram babe style projections of beauty in a 'silly' webtoon mean about myself, even if its to the point of being 'distracted' by it? Isn't it just a reflection of my personal tastes? I don't think there's anything wrong with projecting my tastes onto what I read or watch. I don't usually want to sacrifice plot for 'plot', but I think it's okay to do so every now and then.
If I don't find a particular male or female lead attractive, it will certainly make the story itself seem less believable or compelling as the crux of this story (and most romance stories) centers around the beauty of its main characters. The same would apply for personality traits. If I find the personality of the ML or FL not to my liking then I probably won't find the romantic pursuits as they're described realistic or compelling. The fact that beauty is a core tenant of the plot of this story makes it all the more relevant.
And I'm obviously not 'indignant' about depictions of pale or skinny body figures (I already gave two examples of famous women that more or less embody those ideals, that I think are very attractive). I'm indignant about starvation to the point of bodily disfigurement and undernourishment. And that sort of borderline or evident self-harm is clearly depicted in this webtoon.
I'm also not casting aspersions against women who aren't naturally curvy or busty (in real life or in fiction). Quite the opposite actually, I think the natural curves that the FL has are being stripped away through overly harsh dieting. Besides, there are plenty of body types that are curvy but not busty and vice versa, so even tho the FL is flat-chested, she may still be curvy (might be hard to tell with this art tho).
My main points were: 1) that it seems cruel to me to try and diminish or disfigure a person's natural and healthy figure regardless of its shape, and 2) because the FL's looks are so incredibly different from what I would normally consider attractive (and I consider myself very broad-minded, tho others may well disagree), I then find it hard to stay immersed in the idea that she's 'incredibly' beautiful, which is even harder considering that the FL also starves herself.
If I don't find a particular male or female lead attractive, it will certainly make the story itself seem less believable or compelling as the crux of this story (and most romance stories) centers around the beauty of its main characters. The same would apply for personality traits. If I find the personality of the ML or FL not to my liking then I probably won't find the romantic pursuits as they're described realistic or compelling. The fact that beauty is a core tenant of the plot of this story makes it all the more relevant.
And I'm obviously not 'indignant' about depictions of pale or skinny body figures (I already gave two examples of famous women that more or less embody those ideals, that I think are very attractive). I'm indignant about starvation to the point of bodily disfigurement and undernourishment. And that sort of borderline or evident self-harm is clearly depicted in this webtoon.
I'm also not casting aspersions against women who aren't naturally curvy or busty (in real life or in fiction). Quite the opposite actually, I think the natural curves that the FL has are being stripped away through overly harsh dieting. Besides, there are plenty of body types that are curvy but not busty and vice versa, so even tho the FL is flat-chested, she may still be curvy (might be hard to tell with this art tho).
My main points were: 1) that it seems cruel to me to try and diminish or disfigure a person's natural and healthy figure regardless of its shape, and 2) because the FL's looks are so incredibly different from what I would normally consider attractive (and I consider myself very broad-minded, tho others may well disagree), I then find it hard to stay immersed in the idea that she's 'incredibly' beautiful, which is even harder considering that the FL also starves herself.
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2019
- Messages
- 54
@Zakyrie, you yourself used the word "triggered" to describe your response to a character you don't find attractive being suggested as such, and then went into so much detail talking about women’s bodies and what makes them attractive, and what ISN’T attractive, and just tossing the word “attractive” all over the place lest we forget that we must only value women in terms of their attractiveness (to you), that I just had to assume you were indignant. It's not that you have a preference - which is fine - it's that you were so offended when your preference wasn't catered to that you had to rant publicly about it. It shows a certain entitlement that I found quite entertaining.
You're not mad that standards of beauty persist and that women must conform to them, it’s just that you want them to conform in a way that’s pleasing to you. You say very little about how women themselves can suffer by trying to be thin, but endlessly ruminate over the fact that this pursuit makes them unattractive (god forbid). I mean, thanks for tossing in a cursory "this is unhealthy" when pressed (though, of course it came with a side of "bodily disfigurement" and curves being "stripped away" because, again, let us not forget that the true tragedy of eating disorders is that it makes women total unbangable uggos).
This laser focus on what's attractive demonstrates a world view that centres what women are to those who find them desirable over what needs, preferences, interior lives women themselves have.
So, I don't take issue with your side eye at women starving themselves (I agree that sucks!), it's that your reasons for it are shallow and objectifying.
4 paragraphs about how sad/concerning it is that women may jeopardize their health in pursuit of narrow, unattainable standards? Fine, and I will cosign!
“Let me pontificate for 4 paragraphs about what I, (presumably) a man, find attractive in a woman!” No thanks, bro. 😆
You're not mad that standards of beauty persist and that women must conform to them, it’s just that you want them to conform in a way that’s pleasing to you. You say very little about how women themselves can suffer by trying to be thin, but endlessly ruminate over the fact that this pursuit makes them unattractive (god forbid). I mean, thanks for tossing in a cursory "this is unhealthy" when pressed (though, of course it came with a side of "bodily disfigurement" and curves being "stripped away" because, again, let us not forget that the true tragedy of eating disorders is that it makes women total unbangable uggos).
This laser focus on what's attractive demonstrates a world view that centres what women are to those who find them desirable over what needs, preferences, interior lives women themselves have.
So, I don't take issue with your side eye at women starving themselves (I agree that sucks!), it's that your reasons for it are shallow and objectifying.
4 paragraphs about how sad/concerning it is that women may jeopardize their health in pursuit of narrow, unattainable standards? Fine, and I will cosign!
“Let me pontificate for 4 paragraphs about what I, (presumably) a man, find attractive in a woman!” No thanks, bro. 😆
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2018
- Messages
- 38
You know what... I just don't understand you. I don't get why you seem so offended by my expression of what "I", guy or otherwise find attractive or unattractive in women. Why even engage in the conversation if you're entire point goes something like this: "I don't like the fact that you expressed your views".
And I'm gonna double, triple, quadruple down on the fact that YES - I CANNOT UNDERSTAND why a skeletal, stick-figure, obviously unhealthy, and quite obviously unhappy (hint: starvation isn't fun), depiction of a woman's body can be attractive to anyone at all, anywhere in the world, while at the same time acknowledging that yes it's possible, even though I disapprove of it, and you obviously do too since you said so quite clearly.
And I still believe that the ideal body type that the author in this manga is trying to depict has gone waaay too far even for what may be a reference to East Asian beauty standards, to the point of obvious absurdity - the FL is so obviously frail and physically prone that she falls down walking in a straight line on a paved path in the very first chapter - but you seem so much more offended that I expressed my opinion - any opinion for that matter since no amount of caveats or context can satisfy your apparent distaste of what you believe to be a man talking about what 'he' finds attractive or unattractive about women. At this point, I'm left wondering why you even care about my individual tastes?
Why should *all* standards of beauty be discarded? Are you implying that since you think I'm male, I shouldn't have any right to express what I find physically attractive or unattractive in women? Can't we have healthy aspirations towards certain body types regardless of sex or gender? And what's with your weird logic? So, you can tell women not to starve themselves to achieve a certain look, but I can't? Aren't you asserting your own beauty standards while refusing to engage in a conversation on that very same topic?
You do realize that you're indirectly defending the ideal body type of physical emaciation by refusing to have standards (or even express them) while at the same time saying you agree that women shouldn't starve themselves? How does that square with you? Are you seriously mad about the fact that I have standards at all or that beauty standards exist? Does it feel like this rando guy on the internet has God-forbid, imposed *his* standards on you?
I honestly tried to be tactful and respectful, but you've just totally glossed over the real life examples I gave of pale or thin women actually being attractive from my perspective (maybe you didn't read that part?) but nothing seems to matter when you have preconceived notions about who and what I am. It's okay tho. I thought I'd get a well-reasoned retort or a different perspective since you wrote so much, but I've given up hope on actually having a conversation on beauty standards (and whether we should have them at all). This is really about what you think this 'internet guy' likes and 'him' forcing his likes on you, right? I'm the sleazy bad 'guy' right?
Oh, and if you're gonna reply, stop saying that I'm offended because my 'preferences' weren't acknowledged. I've already told you that I'm offended by the starvation/emaciation/skeletal etc, ideal type of body. I think a lot of people would be triggered by the same thing.
Besides the phrase 'natural curves' which means: whatever natural figure a woman has, I didn't express any specific standard of beauty or advocate for a particular standard, you merely inserted the instagram babe idea on your own and then conflated my being against the FL lead's unhealthy body type with your own imagined notion of what my personal standards are.
You know if you wanted me to shut up, why not just say so? Why pretend like this is a convo? Just go ahead and insert your views down my throat while complaining about how I've inserted my views down your throat. Stop pretending like you care about the plight of women everywhere forced to adhere to unrealistic beauty standards and just say that you can't stand the idea of some random 'guy' on the internet expressing 'his' views in a way you don't like. Wouldn't that be so much easier then all the pretense you've been throwing around?
And I'm gonna double, triple, quadruple down on the fact that YES - I CANNOT UNDERSTAND why a skeletal, stick-figure, obviously unhealthy, and quite obviously unhappy (hint: starvation isn't fun), depiction of a woman's body can be attractive to anyone at all, anywhere in the world, while at the same time acknowledging that yes it's possible, even though I disapprove of it, and you obviously do too since you said so quite clearly.
And I still believe that the ideal body type that the author in this manga is trying to depict has gone waaay too far even for what may be a reference to East Asian beauty standards, to the point of obvious absurdity - the FL is so obviously frail and physically prone that she falls down walking in a straight line on a paved path in the very first chapter - but you seem so much more offended that I expressed my opinion - any opinion for that matter since no amount of caveats or context can satisfy your apparent distaste of what you believe to be a man talking about what 'he' finds attractive or unattractive about women. At this point, I'm left wondering why you even care about my individual tastes?
Why should *all* standards of beauty be discarded? Are you implying that since you think I'm male, I shouldn't have any right to express what I find physically attractive or unattractive in women? Can't we have healthy aspirations towards certain body types regardless of sex or gender? And what's with your weird logic? So, you can tell women not to starve themselves to achieve a certain look, but I can't? Aren't you asserting your own beauty standards while refusing to engage in a conversation on that very same topic?
You do realize that you're indirectly defending the ideal body type of physical emaciation by refusing to have standards (or even express them) while at the same time saying you agree that women shouldn't starve themselves? How does that square with you? Are you seriously mad about the fact that I have standards at all or that beauty standards exist? Does it feel like this rando guy on the internet has God-forbid, imposed *his* standards on you?
I honestly tried to be tactful and respectful, but you've just totally glossed over the real life examples I gave of pale or thin women actually being attractive from my perspective (maybe you didn't read that part?) but nothing seems to matter when you have preconceived notions about who and what I am. It's okay tho. I thought I'd get a well-reasoned retort or a different perspective since you wrote so much, but I've given up hope on actually having a conversation on beauty standards (and whether we should have them at all). This is really about what you think this 'internet guy' likes and 'him' forcing his likes on you, right? I'm the sleazy bad 'guy' right?
Oh, and if you're gonna reply, stop saying that I'm offended because my 'preferences' weren't acknowledged. I've already told you that I'm offended by the starvation/emaciation/skeletal etc, ideal type of body. I think a lot of people would be triggered by the same thing.
Besides the phrase 'natural curves' which means: whatever natural figure a woman has, I didn't express any specific standard of beauty or advocate for a particular standard, you merely inserted the instagram babe idea on your own and then conflated my being against the FL lead's unhealthy body type with your own imagined notion of what my personal standards are.
You know if you wanted me to shut up, why not just say so? Why pretend like this is a convo? Just go ahead and insert your views down my throat while complaining about how I've inserted my views down your throat. Stop pretending like you care about the plight of women everywhere forced to adhere to unrealistic beauty standards and just say that you can't stand the idea of some random 'guy' on the internet expressing 'his' views in a way you don't like. Wouldn't that be so much easier then all the pretense you've been throwing around?
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2019
- Messages
- 140
What happened here? Lol
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2019
- Messages
- 12
He sure feel a conflict in his mind now... everytime he paused when she talked about break up my smile became bigger :3 looking at her sad he became concerned and sated an alternate... it's nothing special but as he who doesn't even show any interest in anything and gives no darn about anything is doing this it looks special ♡
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2020
- Messages
- 8
Hooray! Now break your engagement & become a free woman!!😆
Please DON'T make it a romantic relationship!
I'm SICK of the "fall in love after wedding/engagement" clinch🙄 SO through with it~
Please DON'T make it a romantic relationship!
I'm SICK of the "fall in love after wedding/engagement" clinch🙄 SO through with it~
Member
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2018
- Messages
- 909
@Faceless_Bitchy_Witch I know right? However, her becoming fre from the engagement won’t make a difference because she is just free from THAT engagement. She will most likely have to marry another person after that marriage is broken off. Which is why I don’t understand why she is so deliberate on breaking the engagement when he is a decent man, she is blind smh. If she has to marry some old man after him, I hope she realizes what she did lol.
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2019
- Messages
- 88
Queen a whole step ahead of Yurishien hahaha!
