Aishiteru Game wo Owarasetai - Vol. 6 Ch. 45 - The childhood friends can't run away

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What you said - and continue saying in the post I am currently replying to, - is "it's preferable to first resolve your issues before entering a relationship".
But as already mentioned, you are never comprehensively "resolving your issues", unless you stop with any self-criticism. It's an endless process. Even if you succeed with fixing something about you that you don't like, to a degree - which is far from a given, - you will always be imperfect, and will always have things to work on.
Again, you are taking it my argument in an extreme way. You take it as if I'm saying you need to work until you become "perfect" human being without any issue whatsoever, 100% confident and everything. No, that's not my argument. My argument is, when you're someone like Yukiya, who considers himself lacking and thus he has low self worth that he's down about, that he keeps making comparison between himself and someone else, here Miku or even the dude hitting on her and he felt threatened by, then it's logical course to work on yourself, up until you are comfortable with yourself. By comfortable, I don't mean pursuing an endless road of self perfection or whatever, but simply resolving the many issues that make you feel so worthless.

How her relationship with Yukiya is going aptly demonstrates that rather than "striving to better herself and succeeding", as if she's reached some predefined endpoint, she still has lots of work cut out for her in what comes to interpersonal interactions.
I don't get what you are trying to say here. Miku can continue to improve herself, so? But in contrast to Yukiya, she's enjoying herself, making friends, and she doesn't feel down lacking sociability (in society, being sociable is valued, shocker I know). The one thing she feels down about, is not being cute enough for Yukiya and she fears she may lose him over this. Talk about a non issue, considering Yukiya is so into her and his lack of social skills make him unable to go after girls anyway (and he seems pretty much invisible in general IIRC so Miku is the only girl pinning after him) but hey, the manga is very vanilla, FMC is loyal to MC, there is no threat of "NTR".

The guy was 100% obviously hitting on her, which was absolutely evident to Miku and Yakiya both - and which is why she turned him down. So if anything, Yakiya had every reason to worry - actually, an obligation to worry, as he had promised Miku as much.
It's more telling of a lack of confidence, he fears Miku fall for the dude who has the qualities which Yukiya lacks, even though it's been obvious at this point Miku has feelings for him and they even play a fake boyfriend/girlfriend game to make the other confess first. If Yukiya wasn't the loner trope, just a normal guy, he wouldn't be worried over this, in fact, he would be already in relation with Miku.

Or perhaps his self-esteem issues soften in a loving relationship, as such things tend to.
If soften you mean not addressing them and they simply enjoy their relation ... until Yukiya's insecurities rear its ugly head. Miku is not going to stop talking to people, among whom are boys. We've already seen Yukiya getting jealous, thankfully he only "trash talked" in his mind, but who knows what can happen when you get emotional.
Risk what? A potential relationship with a girl in love with him, which he is sure to ruin by denying her or dawdling? You miss 100% shots you do not take, and no one in the world is going to put their lives on pause to wait as you try to set your head straight (potentially never succeeding at that, to begin with, mind).
You admit as much yourself three lines below - so what's the risk, exactly, if one option gives a chance of success, while the other is a guaranteed failure?
Letting his insecurities destroy the relation between them. What he finds lacking in himself would make Miku change her view of him, that she finds him boring in the end. Since his fears stem from not being "good enough", then he should work on himself, as it won't go away even being in relationship. Does that mean he risk losing Miku to someone else because she had enough waiting for him? Yes, absolutely. In exchange however, he'd gain more as a person. He is going to gain a good mentality, confidence, purpose and being sociable to make friends or girlfriends. Like I said, because he didn't learn to be sociable, it narrows his vision to only Miku, whom he has feelings for, yes, but also the only he can get as girlfriend. But if he works on himself, he'd see the world is larger than just Miku.
Oh, he just has to make a bit of an effort and become sociable. A couple weeks will do for a trivial task like that.
Man, if that was so trivial, why would we have people being sociably awkward even when they're adult?
Right, cause losing a girl they're in love with will certainly not affect him in any way. Neither hamper any progress he might be making in changing himself.
Sure, it would certainly affect him. But no one died from first love not working out (whether it is unrequited or you entered in couple but broke up). Most people find another. But he has everything else to gain on improving himself. It's truly a worthwhile course to take for someone with low self-esteem.
 
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By comfortable, I don't mean pursuing an endless road of self perfection or whatever, but simply resolving the many issues that make you feel so worthless.
Again - resolving things like that is a long, uncertain and endless process, and losing the girl he's in love with is of course not helping it in any way.

I don't get what you are trying to say here. Miku can continue to improve herself, so? But in contrast to Yukiya, she's enjoying herself, making friends, and she doesn't feel down lacking sociability (in society, being sociable is valued, shocker I know).
Right. Consider her behaviour after the pocky game, or her being set on hearing she's cute from Yukiya (instead of actually working on advancing the relationship). That's what someone who's succeeded in bettering themselves looks like.

If Yukiya wasn't the loner trope, just a normal guy, he wouldn't be worried over this
It is 100% normative to feel jealous when someone hits on the girl you love.
It is so normative for couples in fact that, again, he even had to specifically promise doing that if they had been a couple to Miku.

If soften you mean not addressing them and they simply enjoy their relation ... until Yukiya's insecurities rear its ugly head.
Again: it is much easier to address the issues with low self-esteem when you know for a fact you are lovable, because you're in a relationship and loved.

Letting his insecurities destroy the relation between them.
"To mitigate the chance of his insecurities destroying the relationship between them, he should guarantee that their relationship is destroyed by breaking off and working on addressing his insecurities instead".
That's some powerful logic.

Man, if that was so trivial, why would we have people being sociably awkward even when they're adult?
Weren't you the one suggesting the guy should just go and solve his issues before entering a relationship? Or can that wait until he's an adult? Or until he's fifty? Seventy five and utterly enlightened?

Sure, it would certainly affect him. But no one died from first love not working out (whether it is unrequited or you entered in couple but broke up). Most people find another. But he has everything else to gain on improving himself. It's truly a worthwhile course to take for someone with low self-esteem.
So then he can as well do that if they end up breaking up.
And this way, at least he won't regret never trying, and will be so much better off for the experience gained.
 
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Again - resolving things like that is a long, uncertain and endless process
Long, yes, but uncertain and endless? Feels like you're taking "resolving issue" as if it is something like resolving some deep trauma, but no, here, the big insecurity of Yukiya comes mostly from being lacking in sociability.
and losing the girl he's in love with is of course not helping it in any way.
Sure, but staying mediocre is more damaging than losing your first love.
Right. Consider her behaviour after the pocky game, or her being set on hearing she's cute from Yukiya (instead of actually working on advancing the relationship). That's what someone who's succeeded in bettering themselves looks like.
Yeah, she's isn't perfect, your point? The fact is used "succeeded" you take it as her not having issue anymore? Then let me clarify, she succeeded in being sociable to the point of making friends. Also being sociable make her a "brighter person". Compare her to Yukiya.
It is 100% normative to feel jealous when someone hits on the girl you love.
Sure.
It is so normative for couples in fact that, again, he even had to specifically promise doing that if they had been a couple to Miku.
But they aren't a couple despite desiring so. And this is mostly Yukiya keeping her at arm length because he has issues.
Again: it is much easier to address the issues with low self-esteem when you know for a fact you are lovable, because you're in a relationship and loved.
What about his family? Though few, he still know some people. We're making as if Yukiya is unloved or something.
"To mitigate the chance of his insecurities destroying the relationship between them, he should guarantee that their relationship is destroyed by breaking off and working on addressing his insecurities instead".
That's some powerful logic.
Yukiya is choosing not being in couple, because of his personal fears. Fears making you unable to step forward is something normal. His fear stem from him being lacking. Should he worked on this, then that's one less issue he won't have to deal with, whether with Miku if she's still waiting/available, or future girlfriend.
Weren't you the one suggesting the guy should just go and solve his issues before entering a relationship? Or can that wait until he's an adult? Or until he's fifty? Seventy five and utterly enlightened?
I did, and I said until he is comfortable. The rest is you still taking what I said to the extreme, that improving yourself means until you become perfect or something. I have already clarified that no.
So then he can as well do that if they end up breaking up.
And this way, at least he won't regret never trying, and will be so much better off for the experience gained.
This is where we differ I suppose. Knowing that I am lacking, I wouldn't want the one I love suffer from it. Better she finds someone better, while I work on myself. 🤷‍♂️
I don't think we're gonna convince each other, let's agree to disagree.
 
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Damn, can't believe that once upon a time this manga genuinely used to be good. This fall from grace should be studied.

I'm so tired of insecure authors making the protagonist their self-insert. We get it, you used to be a loser in high school who missed out on teen love. Just get over it. Nah, we will make a 300 chapter manga about it instead.

This is why reading rom-com is a chore nowadays. This is also the reason why works like Horimiya are held to such high respect. Because manga like Horimiya are hard to come by in these times. I fucking miss Horimiya so much man

Well the manga my profile picture is from has a ton of appealing characteristics beyond the main "gimmick", and is one of the greatest manga of all time of its genre because of that. On the other hand this is just some random manga which doesn't have much going for it. What about this would be appealing after the protagonists get together? I will certainly be dropping it instantly once that happens. The characters have no personality beyond how the guy is extremely insecure which I, and seemingly a lot of people, despise.
Well, you're wrong. "The manga would lose its gimmick" is a way of saying the author is not talented enough. Aka had enough talent to introduce new arcs that still involve the main characters in some way to keep the manga going. That's what being a good mangaka is. The appeal of this manga was all the cute moments between MC and Miku. It can still continue after they confessed to each other. They can still fix their own flaws after they are together. Sure, you may find it boring since it became a different thing. But you finding it boring doesn't mean it's not possible. Being afraid of not being able to smoothly transition into a different theme after the main theme is already over, is called being the author of Rent-A-Girlfriend. In other words, a talentless hack. Which also not surprisingly applies to the author of this manga.
 
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Long, yes, but uncertain and endless? Feels like you're taking "resolving issue" as if it is something like resolving some deep trauma, but no, here, the big insecurity of Yukiya comes mostly from being lacking in sociability.

Sure, but staying mediocre is more damaging than losing your first love.

Yeah, she's isn't perfect, your point? The fact is used "succeeded" you take it as her not having issue anymore? Then let me clarify, she succeeded in being sociable to the point of making friends. Also being sociable make her a "brighter person". Compare her to Yukiya.

Sure.

But they aren't a couple despite desiring so. And this is mostly Yukiya keeping her at arm length because he has issues.

What about his family? Though few, he still know some people. We're making as if Yukiya is unloved or something.

Yukiya is choosing not being in couple, because of his personal fears. Fears making you unable to step forward is something normal. His fear stem from him being lacking. Should he worked on this, then that's one less issue he won't have to deal with, whether with Miku if she's still waiting/available, or future girlfriend.

I did, and I said until he is comfortable. The rest is you still taking what I said to the extreme, that improving yourself means until you become perfect or something. I have already clarified that no.
Damn this doesn't look like nested quotations work huh.

I won't claim that I understood everything you two have been arguing about but I agree with both of you to some degree. Yukiya being unhappy with himself and deciding that he needs to improve before going into the relationship is plausible enough (it's an overdone trope at this point which is a bit of a bummer). I also see what you mean, that he will never be perfect but he has to reach a point where he sees himself as good enough. It's a thing I'm working on myself. You need to be your own whole person and should not rely on someone elses validation to make you whole. As it stands right now this might be what he needs and if he gets into the relationship now, since she would fill that need he wouldn't need to learn to validate himself on his own terms. As someone that has always struggled with low self-esteem I absolutely agree with danvolodar that it got significantly better after starting my relationship but sometimes I feel like I still need outside validation. You absolutely can grow together and help each other on the journey to improve yourself and each other. I'm rambling, just my thoughts on the matter.

Knowing that I am lacking, I wouldn't want the one I love suffer from it. Better she finds someone better, while I work on myself. 🤷‍♂️
I can relate and I don't want to overstep. This reads very personal and like it's coming from a place of low self-confidence. If you put youself out there and still find someone that loves you warts and all who are you to push their love away just because you lack self confidence? If your partner thinks you're good enough... you just might be. Sure you can keep improving and working but your partner still chose you.
 
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Why are people so angry about a teenager realizing his shortcomings and trying to better himself so he could be a worthy lover to someone he loves and believes deserves better :meguuusad: he's trying to be a better man despite his deep-seated insecurity at that age, and he's doing it with the full knowledge that he loved her and not some lame attempt at subverting things like all the time before, it's good progress all around
 

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