Boukenka ni Narou! Skill Board de Dungeon Kouryaku - Vol. 4 Ch. 16

[ShipfusEnthusiast]

this is on the same trash level as the Last of Us 2 ending, yeah save those motherf*ckers because they have their own personal reason to be irredeemable jackass..they deserve to be saved and pardoned just like Abigail.

 

[cor3zone]

@dummyaccount12345
Sure, sure. But consider this: there's a reason why firing squads sometimes had one random gun loaded with blanks/unloaded. Being directly responsible for another's death (choosing to not save someone counts) is a heavy fucking thing to live with. Being able to think "maybe it wasn't me", or "at least I did all I could" in MC's case, helps sanity immensely. With his mindset, if he did nothing his conscience would crush his mind. By saving them, he is literally (and unknowingly) saving himself. Consider also: it was a tense fucking situation, and tons of people diffuse tension with poor-taste jokes. What was he supposed to do, rage and such? Would that be in-character? Has he ever shown such traits?

I also think MC is wrong, but all the fucking hate is ridiculous. Anonymous 'moralists' spewing bullshit, is all it looks like.

 

[Kiriha]

lmao the comments section exploded just like i thought when i read the raw.

 

[dummyaccount12345]

@cor3zone
I understand where you're coming from, but consider this: in a firing squad, the person to be killed usually hasn't done anything against the the soldiers. They're guilty of something (usually), but most of the time, that something isn't related to the soldier. Tell me something: put a soldier in the shoes of the MC, have him suffer what the MC suffer due to those three buffoons, and I'm pretty certain quite a few of them will actively seek vengeance and justice. Not all soldiers would do so, and I'm no expert in psychology, but I'm of the opinion that a number of them would. Moreover, it's not as if those three are innocent bystanders. They've directly brought harm to the protagonist and the people around him. I reckon his hatred for them would help offset the guilt of leaving them do die. Moreover, by saving them, he's very likely putting himself and those around him at risk. Now, imagine they either find a loophole in the law or manage to run away before being imprisoned. Imagine they plot against the protagonist and his friends. Imagine they succeed. Honestly, on a second thought, this would be good writing. A marvelous opportunity for character development. The protagonist would then be able to let go of his silly, idealistic beliefs and face the harsh reality of the world, and the price of this lesson was his friend's life.

Spoiler

But no, the author just had them die the next chapter, making the protagonist "morally" sound and exacting vengeance on the "bad guys". This? This is piss-poor writing.

Also, you asked whether it'd be in character. The protagonist is a killer. He kills monsters on a daily basis and revels in the mayhem he causes. He has a very clear bloodthirsty side. And these monsters, what are they trying to do? Eat. Feed themselves. Follow their instincts. They're guilty of far lighter crimes than the three buffons. And yet the protagonist cuts through them like a hot knife through butter without an iota of remorse. In that sense, he's very much a psycopath. You could argue that monsters aren't sentient, so it doesn't matter. No, they most likely are. Case in point: Rhea. So, yes, the protagonist slaughters potentially sentient lifeforms on a daily basis, gets a kick out of it, and you are saying that he has never shown murderous traits?

Overall, though, I do understand where you're coming from, but I think that the rage the readers are feeling is justified. This is poor writing.

 

[ImDanGrow]

Why? I dont get it.. why does so many authors do this. Its not even a good trope, almost nobody like this type of shit.

Is the author trying to give a good moral of the story? All the author is doing is giving the impressionable group of people more ways to fuck themself in the ass.
Or is it just a difference in culture? Are japanese people in general really forgive people that easily? I dont get it.

I dont strike for realism but at least be a bit realistic youre just asking them to backstab people again

 

[ImDanGrow]

Please dont tell me they survive

 

[UnieCetterie]

I was salty after reading this chapter, but then I looked up the Junko Furata case.

I can't fucking sleep now.

 

[Myst]

@tuatara1

Spoiler

It's just that for possible scenario in this one, not really that many option can fit the bill when the concerning main antagonist character this time is like that, a small time villain (in my opinion) and the situation they currently in. The character in question also seems to be a generic teenager or young adult, that don't really seems to have the mental fortitude to do anything crazy, or something smart.
When it come to that, what came up to would really just be the standard crime, robbing, killing, rape(yes, since it's there in actuality _{(or my country is just fucked up i guess)}), monster bait(as seen in earlier chapter, prioritizing one own safety over everyone else), extortion, bullying, kidnapping, or straight up beating. since the villain this time that seems to be the type that wouldn't really think things thoroughly and would mostly do things on the spur of moment basing one action with one own feeling above all else.

_{(above is probably not that important, since at the end it still refer to a character, or a factor that lead to one. And no it's not a spoiler I just usually hide less important things using it.)}

Calling "Rape" the default crisis involving female character without considering the current factor at hand is a bit off.

To change the scenario, the cause would have to be changed in that case. There is another example of this, the crisis for this time actually have something other than rape in them and it include female character. The character Ooiso, in this case is also a female in crisis, in which she got injured and is stranded inside a dungeon without anyone nearby caused by first by the lack of monster material leading to certain scenario resulting in a crisis. that is another scenario for "crisis involving female character" that also used widely in other media. (other type mainstream "crisis" scenario include slavery)

And for this one, actually the "rape" come after this. so it's not "always", it's just one of the possibilities available at hand while considering the many factor at play. _{(please refer to the hidden paragraph)}
So calling rape, for this one specifically, a default scenario is a bit of a stretch since before the rape come in, an even bigger crisis (involving life and death possibly) of another female character is being played. Sure, it doesn't have to be conclude into an "attempt" rape, but on another note, there really nothing stopping it to develop into one either.

It would be different if what said is something along the line of "rape seems to be a must have scenario in this kind of media", then the above argument would be mostly be invalidated.

Can you imagine if American media used rape and the threat of rape the same way?

Eeh, well not really. I am not an american nor I usually watch american media, (But I get your point. Really.)

The reason it hits with such impact in a show like *Game of Thrones*, is because we don't see it used as a plot device constantly

Well, to be fair, "Rape" got used too many time in this kind of media spreading across "many" titles, whether it is appropriate or not, it stand out so much that the impact it give at this point is becoming a joke. so, honestly, calling it as lazy is a fair point.

And most time it got used is in an "isekai" title, which nowadays seems to circulate like roach (it's everywhere). Prior to the isekai boom, I don't think it is used as much.

(note: at the time of typing this, I honestly don't know whether I managed to type a good answer or not. probably not since I'm tired)

 

[cor3zone]

@dummyaccount12345
He's the dumbass that takes even troll comments as flattery. He's a psychopath, yes, but not a murderous one. Has he ever revelled in the act of killing? Or did he merely enjoy the adrenaline rush of combat? I think the latter, dunno about you. This point also means he's not vindictive, so why should he seek revenge to the point of making himself judge, jury and executioner?

When did they bring direct harm on MC? I legit can't remember. They've tried of course, but I don't recall even once when they actually hurt him. Harming those close to him is a good point, but see above: not vindictive.

Sidenote: since you edited your previous comment to include 'sacrificing himself'. He's the dumbass that went into the dungeon alone, while monsters overran pretty much everywhere.
Also sidenote: I'm not going to bother with your comments anymore, since I noticed you edited this one as well. It's exhausting trying to argue with someone that changes/elaborates their points before you can respond.

 

[Xenopsyche]

I would have cut the tendons in their legs and let them die.

 

[dummyaccount12345]

@cor3zone

Actually, while I do edit my comments constantly, they're most grammar corrections, because I have a bit of an OCD regarding that. In the last comment, the only thing I added was that last sentence. My point, overall, is usually the same; moreover, I try to do the editing as soon as I can, and as people usually take a while to respond, it works out. I'm not used to talking with people like you, who respond almost immediately (which is a good thing! I appreciate it). I'll try, however, to refrain from editing my comments when continuing to speak with you, so I hope we can continue this discussion, because I'm having fun here, and as someone who aspires to be a writer, I'm also interested in your perspective and analysis of the protagonist's psyche.

Well, as before, I do see your points. And yeah, you're right. I remembered it wrong. What he enjoys is, indeed, the adrenaline. Nevertheless, that doesn't change the fact that he has never actually felt any guilt or remorse by what he was doing, so while he hasn't shown murderous traits, he has shown himself to be a bit of a psychopath, potentially annulling your theory that subconsciously did it to lessen his guilt. As for vindictive traits, well, there has never been an opportunity for this trait, or the lack thereof, to manifest itself before this, so the lack of evidence goes both ways.
As far as we readers are concerned, he's an empty slate regarding this, and he could go either way.

This point also means he's not vindictive

I'm sorry, but I don't see how what you previously stated in any way implies that. What you clarified is that he does it for the thrill of fighting, which I agree with, but it doesn't mean he can't be vindictive. It just means he's not murderous, and people who are not murderous can be vindictive. If the comment about him taking a troll's comment was meant to be the justification for that, I disagree. That just means he's crazy, as far as I can tell.

As for directly bringing him harm, again, you're right. That didn't happen. I'll readily admit it when I'm wrong.

About your last point: he went into the dungeon to save innocent people. Yes, an idiotic attempt, but he has a hero complex, so trying to save innocent people while sacrificing himself is understandable. On the other hand, putting his life on the line for scum? Well, I think that's forcing it a bit.

Also, rest easy; even if I find grammar mistakes, I won't edit this comment.

 

[hyun50]

Ah yes, the naive MC. Now i remember why i would never watch/read Re:Zero.
And since one of them know your secret, you must be happy getting that notification.
Please don't sue me if when i creating manga with this plot but completely different MC.

 

[dummyaccount12345]

So many mistakes.... Goddamit.

 

[humbleoverlord]

fuck... reading 4 different manga with stupid MC ruin my day... fuck fuckity fuck....

 

[chusetto]

LET THEM BE SLAUGHTERED! FOR GOD'S SAKE!

 

[cor3zone]

@dummyaccount12345
'Not vindictive' was about the troll thing. As someone that takes a hard stance against that (despite sometimes being a troll myself), I disagree on that. If someone can magnanimously deal with that, they're a damn saint in my book.

You make a good point. Since he has traits of a psychopath, guilt being an issue makes less sense. Seeing his other actions, the one-man raid and this current quest, suggests he has some sympathy, but those could also be excuses to fight again. Rhea and Karen are also points toward sympathy/empathy, but could just as well be that utilitarian psychopath mindset. 'They're useful, so keep them around.' I'm not an expert, barely even an amateur, so I shouldn't really judge psychology.

Saving scum, maybe you're right. But notice he didn't actually let them go, or even help them until the 'monpare' showed up. Disregarding the spoiler, since I don't like to judge an adaptation by the source (I prefer to judge a work only by what it contains itself), we have no way of knowing what he was planning to do to them. Maybe he just wanted to play before killing them, maybe he wanted to turn them in for legal punishment, maybe he wanted to let them go. Like you said, the lack of evidence goes both ways.

Nah, you're fine to edit for grammar. Sorry for being kinda harsh on that, I just usually have to deal with people changing their entire stance with edits, making me look like a damn fool. Thanks for being understanding.

Edit: accidental spoiler tag, damn 😅

 

[YOLF]

I don't *actually understand* why he isn't just sneaking away and letting them die? This seems out of character for how like, shockingly cold he's previously shown he could be in serious situations. I don't think he's the type to seek out retribution on other people to the point of murder, but that's one thing, and getting himself out while leaving behind these morally disgusting fucks who already directly harmed people he actually cares about is... another thing.

 

[cor3zone]

@YOLF
I agree on that, he should have snuck away. At least until the 'monpare' showed up, at that point he's just willingly choosing to let them die. Seeing how he was raving about adventurers needing to protect people at one point, sneaking out at this point breaks character.

 

[Akane02]

fucking moron mc just let them die!!

 

[dummyaccount12345]

@cor3zone
I'm glad you're still replying! And yeah, no problem about the comment on editing. I completely understand where you're coming from. That's why I made sure to clarify that it was about grammar.

As for what you said, well, we'll agree to disagree on the troll thing. I think he's just optimistic and naive (or, if you wanna be deep about it, he's hiding his sorrows and anguish under a cheerful mask, lying to himself and hoping against hope that a day will come when he receives such a compliment in earnest, so that he can endure the stress and pressure of living a life where he desperately seeks recognition, while the world itself conspires to deny him the fame he believes he rightfully deserves (case in point: his abnormal condition of having no presence), playing the fool when he's anything but), while you think it's evidence that he's very forgiving. We're each entitled to our own opinions and interpretations, so let's set this particular point aside. Your next point, though, caught my interest, and it made me realize we're not really on the same page.

I was taking the content of the LN as facts, as if they were equally valid with regards to the manga. The manga adaption has been pretty faithful to the source material so far, as it usually is with mangas like this, so I was building my arguments based on the assumption that I know what the protagonist plans to do with the scummy trio and that I know his reasons. You, on the other hand, are still leaving him the benefit of doubt. I don't know if you read my first comment in this thread. If you haven't, I included excerpts of the LN there, in which it's made clear that he was saving them (and that he was saving them, as opposed to playing with them) simply because he felt that it made him human (kinda like Shirou Emiya's idea of justice and being a hero, except even blinder; if you're not familiar with the Nasuverse/Fate, feel free to disregard this appositive); the idea of turning them in for legal punishment never crossed his mind. He saved them for a literally idealistic reason.

However, you're right; maybe in the manga adaption, the story will go down a different route, and he'll do one of the things you said, but I find that highly unlikely, which is why my stance and point of view are deeply linked to my knowledge of the LN. Prior to reading it, I also gave the protagonist the benefit of doubt, and like you, I entertained the possibility that he was just raising their hopes only to kick them into the abyss later. Alas, I highly doubt that'll happen, but who knows?

Also, I must say that I have similar discussions with other users quite often in this website, and you're easily the most eloquent and articulate person I've come across so far. I've had a delightful time reading your replies.

Edit: just fixing the grammar.