GATE - Jieitai Kanochi nite, Kaku Tatakaeri - Vol. 26 Ch. 137

[EluRepulser]

we're approaching the final arc everyone probably 20-30ish chapters left

 

[N0Mi0]

This arc is super-annoying (sudden super-incompetence by the jsdf that is uncharacteristic of what has been shown so far, the prince just randomly deciding to mess everything up for no reason all of a sudden despite how he is having what he wants handed to him, the princess refusing a quick and safe resolution to her war by having jsdf not interfere, the mage somehow letting herself be drugged, jsdf pulling out entirely just because of some minor attack on the gate, etc.). Glad to see that it is at least starting to get past the stuff that was.

Classic symptoms of a lost work that dragged way past what the author planned out and thought out initially.
Many such cases, essentially being victims of own success.

GATE is not the worst example, but like you said, it's pretty fucking shit nonetheless.. At least the basics like chibis are there. Also, it's been a while since blood and such. Though it's tasteless even if it's 'needed' to snap JSDF out of it.

 

[N0Mi0]

Wait, so you just said that this breaks your suspension of disbelief despite it reminding you of something that did happen in real life?

There's no conflict there, "suspension of disbelief" is about whether you view the work as coherent as per its internal logic; it can or cannot remind you of stuff, lmfao

It's like saying that a poorly written romance novel reminding you of an IRL romance is somehow not poorly written because of that reminder.

 

[N0Mi0]

Man, I keep reading it, but every chapter keeps piling more issues and more nonsense instead of finally solving something. What the hell is going on with this recenntly?

Random, but this is literally why I just couldn't help but drop Tower of God. The author just kept adding and adding knots upon knots instead of untangling those already piled up.

 

[stephen01king]

There's no conflict there, "suspension of disbelief" is about whether you view the work as coherent as per its internal logic; it can or cannot remind you of stuff, lmfao

It's like saying that a poorly written romance novel reminding you of an IRL romance is somehow not poorly written because of that reminder.

Depends on what were the similarities you mentioned between this event and the real life event. If all you meant was the hasty retreat, then it isn't conflicting to criticise the logic used in the manga. If what you meant was that the logic used to decide on the hasty retreat is what was similar, your argument falls apart.

A romance novel might be poorly written if it uses IRL tropes badly to move the plot line, but that doesn't mean it breaks your suspension of disbelief. If you think it does, it says something about your internal logic that you think something that happens IRL doesn't make sense in a manga.

 

[N0Mi0]

@stephen01king
Hmm, I think we're talking about slightly different things...

I understand breakage of suspension of disbelief as a moment when you are reminded that you're reading a fiction.
You, quite literally, resume your disbelief, i.e. you are becoming keenly aware that you're reading fiction (compared to losing yourself in the story for pleasure's sake, aka 'suspending your disbelief').

And what I pointed out is that such moments could appear with any work, whether its elements remind you of something in real life or not.

Your initial message was

Wait, so you just said that this breaks your suspension of disbelief despite it reminding you of something that did happen in real life?

Which I found odd, since why wouldn't it be possible for a work reminding you of some IRL events to also be a work that you can't suspend your disbelief for?

That dude was reminded of Afghanistan reading this chapter. He also thinks that this chapter is poorly written which resulted in him not 'believing' it. These two facts are independent of each other and aren't mutually exclusive.

TL;DR My point is suspension of disbelief is about you and the story, not about what references the story has

Cheers

 

[stephen01king]

Which I found odd, since why wouldn't it be possible for a work reminding you of some IRL events to also be a work that you can't suspend your disbelief for?

Well, I wasn't talking about generally those two things being incompatible. Only for the specific case he brought up.

That dude was reminded of Afghanistan reading this chapter. He also thinks that this chapter is poorly written which resulted in him not 'believing' it. These two facts are independent of each other and aren't mutually exclusive.

The criticism against the Afghanistan pull-out is generally about it's short-sightedness and lack of planning, as well as the US just sitting back as the Taliban took over the country. That is similar to the part of the story that broke his suspension of disbelief.

The fact of the matter is, for something specific that happens in real life to break your suspension of disbelief when I it happens in manga, it needs to be out of place for the genre of the story. For example, for an arc about tax evasion to suddenly appear in a fluffy romance story.

In this case however, it wasn't out of place, so the only reason it did break his suspension of disbelief is because he had the wrong expectations for the JSDF to not act like the military in real life and only make logically sound decisions. That is the basis for my criticism of his criticism.