Hachinan tte, Sore wa Nai Deshou! - Vol. 8 Ch. 47

[Lord-Raine]

@Goobers Everyone Wendelin has met since this story began has been "using him for his own purposes." The only person who hasn't is Priestess Fiance. Literally everyone else has become involved with him for partially or wholly self-serving reasons, including his teacher, all of his family members, both of the court mages, THE KING, the magic academy, and his other two female friends.

If Kurt proposing a plan where they use Wendelin to solve problems suddenly makes him a villain, then everyone in this fucking story is a villain. Kurt's entire argument was, let me inherit, I'll run everything, it's fine, Wendelin left and made a name for himself, he doesn't care to run the estate, so when he shows up let's use him to solve a lot of our problems while he's already here, because he has the unique ability to do that and our people will prosper and are willing to accept his help because they know who he is.

There is literally NOTHING morally wrong with that plan. And Wendelin would have agreed to do it.

@WhimsiCat Yes really. Kurt was entirely willing to let Wendelin help solve their problems, pay him or otherwise give him whatever he wanted in exchange, and then part ways amicably. It was THEIR FATHER who said "you can't do that and I won't allow you to do that, you'll lose face if you do it and you can't afford to lose face, if you're going to let Wendelin use magic to solve problems then Wendelin might as well inherit instead of you."

It was their father who was and IS willing to allow the serfs and families under his care to go hungry for the sake of politics. Kurt was the one who was willing to throw away his pride to feed his people, which makes him a damn sight better potential family head than their father is.

All of this is happening because their father shot down attempts to cooperate between siblings and EXPLICITLY set them against one another. Kurt already proposed a plan where everyone would have gotten what they wanted and nobody's feelings would have been hurt; that plan was shot down and rejected because it would have allegedly been embarrassing to have a youngest son going around using magic to help people.

And the other issue is that rumors were spread about Kurt not being as good at leading the estate as he actually is, but that's ALSO the father's fault, because we were shown and told that those rumors aren't true and that they were spread due to a mistake caused by someone the father hired and was using as a servant. Literally all of Kurt's problems exist because of their father's cruelty and incompetence and the mistakes of people who were his father's responsibility, not his own, and yet Kurt is being painted as the real problem here. That's bullshit.

 

[Lord-Raine]

@jonsmth The fact that Kurt is willing to lose face to improve the lot of his own people is why he would make a better leader of the estate. That's on their father, not Kurt. Their family, at the MOMENT, is widely liked by the people who work under them, and Wendelin and Kurt are also liked. There is absolutely no reason Kurt couldn't have an honest talk with Wendelin about how to manage their image, where Wendelin uses his magic to help people and then vocally gives Kurt all the credit. Kurt already asserted that Wendelin wouldn't want to inherit the estate, and he's RIGHT. Wendelin DOESN'T want it. Wendelin outranks his own damn father at this point.

That's a spin problem. A PR problem. Those problems are SOLVABLE. They are not impossible problems. And yet their father can't and won't accept that, and is deliberately going out of his way to set his sons against each other.

We are watching a blowup that did not need to happen, and the person who engineered it, who made this happen, is their father. Whatever comes from this is entirely on him. It is his fault.

 

[lvxferre]

@JaxunHero, @Silvernius, @alidan, @RPWPA: I'm watching the anime now. It's a jumbled mess, with a rushed story and practically no characterization, and without the context of the manga I'd likely not be able to follow it in story.

 

[WhimsiCat]

@Lord-Raine
> Kurt was entirely willing to let Wendelin help solve their problems, pay him or otherwise give him whatever he wanted in exchange, and then part ways amicably.

Care to post your source of those?

Because I went back and re-read ch 46, Kurt is NOTHING like that.

Even his reaction to 2nd brother and Eric were more of wariness of his seat being taken away.
And IT WAS THE FATHER who brought up the example of what kind of results might be if Wendelin use his magic, Kurt didn't even know what kind of magic Wen has.
https://mangadex.org/chapter/1001931/16

And as the father went on to list how wonderful Wen doing all these would be
https://mangadex.org/chapter/1001931/17
https://mangadex.org/chapter/1001931/18
Kurt is just "yeah, so what's the problem?"
And the dad ask "so, you wouldn't mind if Wen become the one expect to inherit?" at which point Kurt is the one who hesitated to say yes.
https://mangadex.org/chapter/1001931/19

NOTHING about paying Wendelin and part way was even mentioned.
Also
> Kurt was the one who was willing to throw away his pride to feed his people, which makes him a damn sight better potential family head than their father is.
https://mangadex.org/chapter/1001931/21
https://mangadex.org/chapter/1001931/22
HIS PRIDE IS THE REASON HE IS DOING ALL THIS
If he is willing to throw away his pride then, he can still throw away his pride now and not be an ass, it's because he CAN'T that he is being an ass.

 

[Goobers]

@Lord-Raine

I agree that pretty much everyone has been using him. Some more self serving than others.

Most everyone else can hide their motives from the general public, even if the MC knew about. In addition, for many, they later became forthcoming with the MC about it, so he knew/confirmed his own speculations about it. And many of the grander schemes will result in some benefit to the MC too, which is why he goes along with them.

The issue is that Kurt’s plans are too obviously self serving. He expects the people to see the MC’s work as his own, as if the MC were merely a tool. None of it would be for the benefit of the MC. If you do something too obvious in public, it can bite you in the ass.

And we all know, it WILL bite Kurt later on.

@jonsmith, I don't disagree... but I wasn't talking about that either. I was talking about the previous chapter that Lord-Raine brought up about what their father supposedly did, pitting them against each other.

 

[jagfanbb]

@Lord-Raine you're so off base that it's legit funny 🤣

 

[lurker123]

@Lord-Raine
Kurt wanted MC's magic to benefit the land, the thoughts of a good ruler. However he didn't have the foresight to realize how that would influence his position. The realization of this is what seeded or accelerated his own insecurity and wariness. This was further impacted by Kurt learning that MC is OP, after what was seemingly the thoughts of a good ruler were now replaced with insecurity.

So basically until he learned that MC is op, he was thinking for their land and its people. Then he learned that his position is in danger if MC isn't dead.

 

[rickytham]

Hah if the anime follow the manga in tension and atmosphere without a doubt the score will be high. But stupid production making the anime character emotionless, no comedy and detail it got worse although this manga would be a hidden gem if the anime production follow the manga

 

[pbwarrior]

Anyone else upset at LHT for not being able to stick to one name for Wendelin? First it was Wendelin, then Vendelin, then Well, then Vell... Pick one and stay with it. It could be forgiveable if it was between chapters, but it was only three pages of so apart. >.<

 

[jonsmth]

@Lord-Raine

And yet their father can't and won't accept that

The father simply told Kurt what would happen if they made Wendelin use his magic. If it were solvable problem for Kurt, then Kurt wouldn't have backed out on his idea.

Remember, the father knows he's putting on the years. He doesn't expect himself to be capable of taking care of his own sons in the near future.
The father can't expect to able to order his other sons, some of which had gone independent, to support or endorse Kurt. He would have to ask for their favor, especially Helman who he personally had sent away, and Wendelin who now outranks him. The poor territory and Kurt likely wouldn't be able to afford owing them a favor.
If Kurt's standing in his own land goes down in the future, the father might not be able to do anything about it.
Kurt also doesn't have any real allies since he's pretty much antagonizing everybody.
Rather than allies, Kurt may have enemies like Klaus, so there may be people working against him.

 

[Glomoro]

@pbwarrior I'm used to it, that's one of two or three major quirks of an LHT translation and these guys are translating like 300 things at once. Even with my ridiculous amount of followed things on here and other sites, they're a significant portion of what I'm reading so I'm just adapted to their stuff I guess.

 

[Kaarme]

@cor3zone His family seems perfectly well off, living in nice mansions with servants and everything. If Wen wants to contribute to the land (fief), he can contribute directly to the people. Use the money for roads, bridges, hospitals, and such. I'm sure his brother would try to embezzle as much as he could from such investments as well, so it's not like he would be left totally without. However, it's utterly useless to give them anything directly.

 

[alidan]

@lvxferre
Without context of the manga you would think this is an absolutely shit story with no redeeming qualities.

 

[dextersTomato]

That brother was acting high and almighty.
The fact that the forest of demon was untouched until now, is that even that brother was not capable of doing anything about it, less hired someone skilled to do their bidding.
As if he can take it on the subjugation and clearing of forest of demon, he should be humble of himself until then, because in the future, theres profit out of it aside from the relics.
For example, timber, herbs, animals for consumption and more, and the village can expand their land more.
And this big brother, the next feudal lord, doesnt even thinking ahead, he should be feel ashamed at least once in his life.

 

[Lanfear]

@alidan I agree, there are definitely a lot of novels that make better manga. This is one of them.

 

[Lord-Raine]

@WhimsiCat @Goobers @jagfanbb @lurker123 @jonsmth
His "position" isn't "in danger," that's bullshit their father pushed. He's the one who decides who inherits, it's not a fucking democracy. And for the second time, that's a PR problem, which could have easily been solved by just talking about it with Wendelin, who would have absolutely gone along with it and given Kurt or his father or whoever all the credit if it meant helping the people under their care. Wendelin could have easily told every single person he helped "this was Kurt's idea, he's the one who thought of it and got me to help!" And there you go, problem solved.

This is a fight that did not need to happen and it's the father's fault that it's happening. He's the one who prevented any attempts at cooperation between the siblings and is basically forcing them to fight, against Kurt's wishes and most certainly against Wendelin's.

Those of you who are mocking me, acting like bitches, or demanding a "source," go the fuck back and read the last chapter. Literally all of these problems are the fault of their father. Klaus the servant has been constantly undermining the authority of the sons and the succession of the estate, and yet their father refuses to fire him or get rid of him, even though it's so bad even their father said "don't trust Klaus." Why the fuck would their father keep employing a man to help run the estate that he explicitly does not trust? Kurt himself explains it in his inner-monologue: his father is lazy and selfish. He holds the Baumeister soldiers back from conflicts, yet still expects a cut of the spoils. Even though he holds his soldiers back and never uses them, he makes sure they maintain full battle-readiness at all times, which cuts into the welfare of the people on the estate, causing people to go hungry and suffer. While all of his sons and servants work, he does next to nothing to help the estate. Multiple times in the past, Klaus and others have tried to do things to improve the estate and the lot of the people living on it, but every time their father blocks it or prevents it from happening, for one asinine reason or another.

The list of problems caused explicitly by their father is enormous and damning, and yet none of you seem to care or seem to believe it isn't really relevant to the subject at hand. It's EXTREMELY relevant. Because Kurt is just the heir, he isn't in charge of the estate. He can't make big changes or alter how the family conducts it's business, that's clearly spelled out not only when he says his father refuses to give him more responsibility in spite of asking all of his sons to do more work, but also because Kurt is complaining about things like their father grossly misallocating the resources of the estate. If Kurt had the ability to countermand that or distribute them elsewhere as HE pleased, then obviously it wouldn't be something he would complain about. So the idea that Kurt should have just "gone ahead" and done these things, and that it's somehow a mark against him that he didn't, is absurd. He's not the head of the family, he's just the heir.

Kurt was totally willing to have Wendelin solve loads of problems with magic, but it was their father who shot the idea down, AGAIN, just like he's done every single time before, and said "people will talk if you let Wendelin help." But people already fucking talk, because that jackass won't fire Klaus or do anything to stop Klaus from constantly undermining his and Kurt's authority, and he lets his own people starve just to maintain an army he refuses to use. The father has no right to piss on Kurt's ideas and say he can't use Wendelin to make sure people have food to eat and rat-free houses to sleep in, when he's done next to nothing to run the estate for decades and is clearly incapable of managing it properly. Permitting Klaus to remain on the estate and be employed has caused more damage to the "face" of the family than anything Kurt has ever proposed would have done. Klaus has independently undermined both Kurt's and their father's authority on three separate occasions that we know of, and he obviously does it far more frequently in incidents we have not seen if he was already distrusted and held in contempt. And yet their father retains him, simply out of laziness.

A good leader isn't expected to do everything themselves. A good leader is expected to identify people who can do things and make use of them to achieve goals. A king, a leader, a boss, or whatever, is someone who surrounds themselves with talent greater than their own and organizes it to serve a purpose. That's what leadership is. Maybe there are too many kids in the comments section, maybe it's hard to understand that. Whatever, I'm not your father, and if one or two of you want to resort to name calling and mockery, you do you. Adults don't care about the insults of children. Kurt is a good leader, he is always thinking of ways to help the people under them and how he can organize others to achieve that. Because of that, he deserves to inherit the estate, and Wendelin could help him attain that goal by improving the estate and making life better for everyone. And Wendelin would absolutely have agreed to do it, and absolutely would have been willing to give all of the credit to Kurt, because he doesn't WANT to inherit the estate, and Kurt, Wendelin, AND their father ALL know it and have demonstrated that they know it. Wendelin's lack of desire to lead the family estate is not a secret. Which means there is no reason at all cooperation is not possible. The people standing in the way of that are their father and Klaus, who works for their father and whom their father could dismiss at any time. So all of their problems stem from their father. In fact, their father going so far as to play on Kurt's insecurities to drive a wedge between the siblings could be seen, not merely as negligence, but as active subversion and manipulation. Their father is actively pushing the two siblings to fight each other instead of cooperate, for no readily apparent reason beyond him simply believing that's how things ought to be.

And yet, if the story goes the way it's "supposed" to, all of the blame for everything that's happening right now is going to be shifted to Kurt, and nothing at all happens to Klaus or their father.

That's bullshit, and nothing any of you have to say will change that.

 

[WhimsiCat]

@Lord-Raine :
>He's the one who decides who inherits, it's not a fucking democracy.

And guess what happened when the PEOPLE decide they no longer want to follows the 'incompetent' leader?
Or in this case there's the Magrave and other nobles who'd take notice.
How do you think they'll see things, when they come to inspect and see a boy handling pretty much all the territory's problems, and yet it's his brother who has done....practically nothing in comparison (can't even do calculations) is getting all the benefits as the family head?

>Wendelin could have easily told every single person he helped "this was Kurt's idea, he's the one who thought of it and got me to help!" And there you go, problem solved.

So your solution to "how would the populace (or other nobles) think" is to just lie and try to make them side with the guy who have done very little in comparison?
Sure, that TOTALLY sounds like something a 'good leader' would come up with. Let's downplay the achievement of the guy who did all the work and credit it to the guy who can't even do calculations.
Also, clearly the populace will favor the guy who simply thought of it instead of the kid (who's also in line of inheritance) actually getting things done.
/s

>go the fuck back and read the last chapter.

and where 'the fuck' do you think the pages I linked are from?
it's from the same chapter you're telling us to go read
so yeah, I ALREADY DID

And maybe YOU should, because NOTHING in there even support all your rants

Heck some of the stuffs you brought up doesn't even make sense :
Soldiers? It's a territory that's essentially a bunch of farmers/hunters, any 'soldiers' they have are basically conscripts, not permanent soldiers.
Did you ever see any actual soldier in the territory? At all?
And you think it's 'bad' for a farming village to not want to send their farmers to fight?

The father give other sons more work? You mean there's any sons who hadn't left the house besides the 2nd who married off to another family to keep around as spare, the 3rd/4th/5th who left to find employment in other cities, the unknown (dead?) 6th/7th child and the 8th who left the house at 12 years old?
So what son was around besides Kurt that the father is giving them works?

So tl;dr - for all your rantings, the lack of any actual evidence and even telling me to go read the very chapter I linked as my source, I can only conclude you're pulling all this out your ass.

 

[KaitouRed010]

It’d be nice if they could lay off the word “fuck.” I get that it somewhat fits the tone/context, but overusing that word just cheapens the dialogue.

Also, just as a not about Wendelin’s name- just because the dub uses a more Germanic pronunciation for his “Well” nickname doesn’t mean you should actually change the w to a v in the text.

 

[DrHizzle]

@kaitoured010 "fuck" is only said one time in this chapter and it perfectly fits where it was used though.

 

[jonsmth]

@Lord-Raine

His "position" isn't "in danger," that's bullshit their father pushed. He's the one who decides who inherits, it's not a fucking democracy.

No. The problem is Kurt's position as the current lord (after he has already inherited the title and the land) will be in danger. This will be in the near future when the father probably has retired or has passed away.
Actually, it would also reflect badly on Kurt if the father still has to do everything for him even after retiring.

And for the second time, that's a PR problem, which could have easily been solved by just talking about it with Wendelin, who would have absolutely gone along with it and given Kurt or his father or whoever all the credit if it meant helping the people under their care

There's no guarantee that Wendelin would be complicit. He actually isn't keen on being used. Heck, any good father would not want to force any of his sons. The father probably would rather have a competent son rather than have him be dependent on and oppress a younger brother. I know it's not said, but think about the implications.
And there's no way they could keep this secret going as it won't be a one-time deal. They have to keep the facade up forever. Their closest aides who are privy with the setup can easily conspire against them e.g. Klaus.

Also, what do you mean by giving Kurt all the credit? That's not enough. The only way the people would take this nicely is if Kurt himself was shown to do the magic. It's not enough for Wendelin to simply say that it's all because of Kurt. The people can think on their own, and it's too easy to spin the tale around especially with Kurt's opponents who conspire against his lordship.

And Wendelin would absolutely have agreed to do it, and absolutely would have been willing to give all of the credit to Kurt, because he doesn't WANT to inherit the estate, and Kurt, Wendelin, AND their father ALL know it and have demonstrated that they know it.

Wendelin may give the credit to Kurt, but again, there's no guarantee that he would help them.

The people standing in the way of that are their father and Klaus, who works for their father and whom their father could dismiss at any time.

Klaus was probably given land and a young wife for his services as Kurt seems to imply. Just because Klaus is an aide doesn't mean that he doesn't have power himself. I don't think dismissing him would be so simple. That type of guy would have to be given "severance pay". Also, the father isn't standing in Kurt's way. He needs someone to inherit his position and territory. All his other sons are either unqualified (unfit or too young) or preoccupied; Kurt is just barely enough to be qualified.

In fact, their father going so far as to play on Kurt's insecurities to drive a wedge between the siblings could be seen, not merely as negligence, but as active subversion and manipulation. Their father is actively pushing the two siblings to fight each other instead of cooperate, for no readily apparent reason beyond him simply believing that's how things ought to be.

This whole argument stems from how you see this differently. The father was simply pointing out that Kurt's idea was naive. Remember, the father wants his son to inherit his position and be worthy of it, he isn't only asking to improve the territory. This was for Kurt's benefit and perhaps Wendelin's too.

Kurt himself explains it in his inner-monologue: his father is lazy and selfish. He holds the Baumeister soldiers back from conflicts, yet still expects a cut of the spoils. Even though he holds his soldiers back and never uses them, he makes sure they maintain full battle-readiness at all times, which cuts into the welfare of the people on the estate, causing people to go hungry and suffer. While all of his sons and servants work, he does next to nothing to help the estate. Multiple times in the past, Klaus and others have tried to do things to improve the estate and the lot of the people living on it, but every time their father blocks it or prevents it from happening, for one asinine reason or another.

Kurt just isn't seeing the bigger picture. Feudal lords need a standing army always. They serve as the defenders, the soldiers of the king, and the police. You know what happens when a country skimps on the military? It ends up relying on another country. It becomes unable to maintain its sovereignty. This actually happened in my country and now the media of our oppressors is starting to call us their province ffs. Remember, Kurt has been working like a pioneer likely most of the time. He sympathizes with the common people, but he likely hasn't seen what it's like running a territory just yet.