Hajirau Kimi ga Mitainda - Vol. 8 Ch. 59.2 - Iron Rule

[Hocbobby]

The audacity of this woman lmao. Imagine ask him to use your body when you just forcefully rape his.

 

[Wachtail]

Man I didn't thing I'd feel that bad for Shirasawa... But here I am.
Teacher's probably irredeemable, even her tears won't help.
I'm just glad main girl and Shiki are here to improve the mood.
Thanks for the chapter!

 

[Maxoball]

Sensei did alotta horrible shit THEN SHE EVEN MADE HIM DESTROY THE CAMERA, MAN

Rape and pedophilia is bad an all but FIXING A CAMERA TAKES MONEY BITCH 😭

 

[Loliphilosophy]

"Buu buu desuwa my Japanese author handled a rape scene with no nuance at all I'm so shook and surprised!"

Man, y'all have way too high expectations. JP mangaka and author almost always use rape as 1.) A way for the hero to save the FMC 2.) Excuse to draw h scene 3.) Shock value.

And less than 10% of the time it actually has ANY long term effect on characterization; regardless of the genre, purpose, etc.

Go back to /r/manga or where ever y'all come from.

 

[Loliphilosophy]

Also have you guys just forgot this is a thinly disguised fetish exploration manga??? This is literally just "sex with a drunk older woman at a hot spring ~ " not a literary presentation of the power dynamics between student and teachers.

We had a chapter where a comedian found a vibrator that fell fresh out a pussy while on-stage. Jesus.

 

[BaitoDesu]

Are people really expectating some wonderful writing of a rape victim in THIS manga? Are we forgetting that is the same manga that our poor protagonist here filmed his teacher pissing herself in animal cosplay at a public space to get answers, this manga was always dumb and immoral from the get go, it's easier to treat this with h-doujin logic than manga logic. Just look at most of the ecchi scenes in this manga and tell me that they aren't just some sort of kink.

 

[manhunt0r]

Broke what rule though, "do fuck the talent" is like one of Hollywood's core tenets.

 

[leolancer92]

The iron rules:
1. Dont sleep with your actress.
2. Don't drop the camera.
3. Seriously, those things are expensive.

What thing? 1 or 2?

 

[SIOrganism]

thank you for the translations. I’m biased so I have a different endgame couple in mind, but for sexual assault to be the reason why my couplings gets prolonged sucks. I would’ve preferred anything but an actual crime.

 

[beep_repair]

I don't know what to feel about this chapter.

It wasn't that he was raped that got all him mad, it was breaking one of the iron rules and that it wasn't him that Sensei was seeing when she did it.

I was hoping that it was because he was raped that got him mad, hopefully it doesn't drop the notion that it was indeed rape that happened.

Shirasawa is mad for two reasons:

1. He broke his father's "Iron Rule" *
2. Ekoda-sensei used him as a substitute for Director Saiga

He doesn't seem to be upset that she had her way with him, and I very strongly doubt he considers it rape.


* which makes no sense in the first place, as many (MANY) great male directors have slept with their actresses, but w/e

 

[beep_repair]

No author, don't you FUCKING dare make this about anything other than what it really was.

RAPE.

This would not be considered rape in Japan, neither legally nor socially. It would be considered sex with a minor, but there's virtually no chance it would be prosecuted.

^ Worth keeping in mind, as some manga are actually made in Japan by Japanese people for the Japanese market. This one, for example...

 

[Moneymike1995]

This would not be considered rape in Japan, neither legally nor socially. It would be considered sex with a minor, but there's virtually no chance it would be prosecuted.

^ Worth keeping in mind, as some manga are actually made in Japan by Japanese people for the Japanese market. This one, for example...

This means nothing. Just because their culture doesn't see it as such doesn't mean it isn't. Some places kill and hurt people as a sign of worship. Does that mean it's no longer murder?

 

[Crackerjack94]

Shirasawa is mad for two reasons:

1. He broke his father's "Iron Rule" *
2. Ekoda-sensei used him as a substitute for Director Saiga

He doesn't seem to be upset that she had her way with him, and I very strongly doubt he considers it rape.


* which makes no sense in the first place, as many (MANY) great male directors have slept with their actresses, but w/e

Where is it stated that he's mad that he's a substitute? Wouldn't he have to have had feelings for sensei in the first place to be mad? He likes Honjou so sensei not seeing him as nothing more than a substitute shouldn't bother him. He's mad because that was her reasoning, which loops back to the fact that he was mad at what she did to him itself. You can come up with excuses but at least make them good excuses.

 

[Litreara]

This would not be considered rape in Japan, neither legally nor socially. It would be considered sex with a minor, but there's virtually no chance it would be prosecuted.

^ Worth keeping in mind, as some manga are actually made in Japan by Japanese people for the Japanese market. This one, for example...

In Cheeky Gyaru Sister you claim that FMC was raped. Do you consider what happened with Shirasawa rape? Or do you think rape only applies to females? They are very similar situations with alcohol involved, the difference is that Shirasawa didn't know he was drinking alcohol.

 

[beep_repair]

This means nothing. Just because their culture doesn't see it as such doesn't mean it isn't. Some places kill and hurt people as a sign of worship. Does that mean it's no longer murder?

Homicide (the killing of one human by another) is a behavior. It exists in every culture. "Murder", however, is a culture-specific legal term for unsanctioned and/or unjustifiable homicide. So, in answer to your question, yes: what one culture's legal system considers murder another culture's might not. And because laws vary greatly from place to place, the same applies to rape and all other legally-defined crimes.

To put it another way, our perception of rape depends in large part on our acculturation. Let's say, for example, that person 'A' has sexual intercourse. They do not consider themselves to have been raped. The laws and norms of their society do not consider them to have been raped. Wouldn't it then be a little strange, then, to insist that they MUST have been raped simply because the laws and norms of some other society say so?

I mean, age of consent laws vary widely from one country to the next. So what one country would call statutory rape might be no crime at all in another. This is even true from one US state to another. And some countries consider theft a capital offense. Does that mean all countries should do the same?

No. The variation of laws, beliefs, values and attitudes (LBVAs) from one place to the next is not a problem. In fact it's a good thing. Without these and other differences, we wouldn't have human culture. LBVAs are and should be local - at least in part. This doesn't, however, mean that we have to like or even accept all the LBVAs that exist in the world.

You can hate and reject Japanese LBVAs regarding rape if you want. I often feel that way myself. But that response may cause us to struggle when reading manga.

 

[Moneymike1995]

Homicide (the killing of one human by another) is a behavior. It exists in every culture. "Murder", however, is a culture-specific legal term for unsanctioned and/or unjustifiable homicide. So, in answer to your question, yes: what one culture's legal system considers murder another culture's might not. And because laws vary greatly from place to place, the same applies to rape and all other legally-defined crimes.

To put it another way, our perception of rape depends in large part on our acculturation. Let's say, for example, that person 'A' has sexual intercourse. They do not consider themselves to have been raped. The laws and norms of their society do not consider them to have been raped. Wouldn't it then be a little strange, then, to insist that they MUST have been raped simply because the laws and norms of some other society say so?

I mean, age of consent laws vary widely from one country to the next. So what one country would call statutory rape might be no crime at all in another. This is even true from one US state to another. And some countries consider theft a capital offense. Does that mean all countries should do the same?

No. The variation of laws, beliefs, values and attitudes (LBVAs) from one place to the next is not a problem. In fact it's a good thing. Without these and other differences, we wouldn't have human culture. LBVAs are and should be local - at least in part. This doesn't, however, mean that we have to like or even accept all the LBVAs that exist in the world.

You can hate and reject Japanese LBVAs regarding rape if you want. I often feel that way myself. But that response may cause us to struggle when reading manga.

This whole argument falls apart when
1) many that have been raped tend to be in denial of the fact
2) you have no idea how the MC sees things since its never stated

Why don't we just leave it at let's see what happens next

 

[beep_repair]

In Cheeky Gyaru Sister you claim that FMC was raped. Do you consider what happened with Shirasawa rape? Or do you think rape only applies to females? They are very similar situations with alcohol involved, the difference is that Shirasawa didn't know he was drinking alcohol.

In the discussion of CGS, we were talking about our own personal views and feelings regarding rape. And yes, I believe quite strongly that the character in question was raped -- given the information we have at hand.

Here, we were, at least initially, not talking about our own personal views and feelings. We were talking about why the character Shirasawa was so angry with Ekoda. On that level, it's an in-narrative discussion, and within the narrative, I believe that Shirasawa was upset for the two reasons I mentioned above. He feels that Ekoda used him as a substitute for Saiga, and he regrets breaking his father's rule.

Of course, we can always shift the level of discussion and bring our own ideas about rape into it. But then it's no longer a simple, in-narrative conversation about Shirasawa, and things become much more complex.

 

[Litreara]

In the discussion of CGS, we were talking about our own personal views and feelings regarding rape. And yes, I believe quite strongly that the character in question was raped -- given the information we have at hand.

Here, we were, at least initially, not talking about our own personal views and feelings. We were talking about why the character Shirasawa was so angry with Ekoda. On that level, it's an in-narrative discussion, and within the narrative, I believe that Shirasawa was upset for the two reasons I mentioned above. He feels that Ekoda used him as a substitute for Saiga, and he regrets breaking his father's rule.

Of course, we can always shift the level of discussion and bring our own ideas about rape into it. But then it's no longer a simple, in-narrative conversation about Shirasawa, and things become much more complex.

You didn't answer my questions but from your answer I think it's clear what you think.

 

[beep_repair]

This whole argument falls apart when
1) many that have been raped tend to be in denial of the fact
2) you have no idea how the MC sees things since its never stated

Why don't we just leave it at let's see what happens next

I mean no offense, Moneymike, but we're all doing exactly as you suggest. We're waiting to see what happens next. In the meantime, there's nothing wrong with discussing our takes on the present state of things, right? I mean, that's what there chapter threads are for.

In the same spirit, while we may not know exactly how Shirasawa sees things, we do have some good clues. At the top of 59.2 he explodes, yelling, "I'm not Saiga!" at Ekoda. And at the end of the chapter he quite mournfully says, "Father... I broke... The Iron Rule," to himself. From those two moments, it seems to me that we get a fairly good sense of what's upsetting him.

That said, we don't yet know for sure. This is all interpretation and speculation. But I'm not in denial about denial. I'm honestly guessing -- and it's only a guess -- that Umagome-sensei is not going to focus on this as rape going forward. I may be wrong, though. We'll see soon enough...

 

[Moneymike1995]

I mean no offense, Moneymike, but we're all doing exactly as you suggest. We're waiting to see what happens next. In the meantime, there's nothing wrong with discussing our takes on the present state of things, right? I mean, that's what there chapter threads are for.

In the same spirit, while we may not know exactly how Shirasawa sees things, we do have some good clues. At the top of 59.2 he explodes, yelling, "I'm not Saiga!" at Ekoda. And at the end of the chapter he quite mournfully says, "Father... I broke... The Iron Rule," to himself. From those two moments, it seems to me that we get a fairly good sense of what's upsetting him.

That said, we don't yet know for sure. This is all interpretation and speculation. But I'm not in denial about denial. I'm honestly guessing -- and it's only a guess -- that Umagome-sensei is not going to focus on this as rape going forward. I may be wrong, though. We'll see soon enough...

That "I'm no Saiga" line isn't about him being a substitute though. I will admit he doesn't want to be compared to him but I don't think he's thinking "I thought we had sex because you liked me not Saiga" since that thought alone would be him breaking one of the iron rules. Maybe it's me that's wrong but the line doesn't feel like it's being said in the context of being mad that he's being used as a substitute and more him not liking how delusional sensei is.