Hajirau Kimi ga Mitainda - Vol. 8 Ch. 59.2 - Iron Rule

[beep_repair]

You didn't answer my questions but from your answer I think it's clear what you think.

Maybe? I dunno.

But to answer your question, Ekoda raped Shirasawa. That's how I view it.

I judge her less harshly than I do the men who gang-raped the title character of of Cheeky Gyaru Sister R18 in chapter 2.5 of that series*, but that's due to my own gender, not to any real difference in the degree of wrongdoing involved.

I say that because, as a man, I feel sickened and ashamed by the worst of what men do to women. I feel a certain degree of personal responsibility for it, though I know it's merely responsibility by association.

I feel no personal responsibility, however, for the worst of what women do to men. I instead view it rather abstractly, as a sort of challenge. I wonder without much emotion how I would feel and react in such a situation.

I doubt that will satisfy you, but it's the best I can do ¯\(ツ)/¯

* a grueling, omni-phyrric, and utterly pointless death march "discussion" of which can be found here.

 

[beep_repair]

That "I'm no Saiga" line isn't about him being a substitute though. I will admit he doesn't want to be compared to him but I don't think he's thinking "I thought we had sex because you liked me not Saiga" since that thought alone would be him breaking one of the iron rules. Maybe it's me that's wrong but the line doesn't feel like it's being said in the context of being mad that he's being used as a substitute and more him not liking how delusional sensei is.

That makes sense. I could see either or both being true.

 

[Litreara]

Maybe? I dunno.

But to answer your question, Ekoda raped Shirasawa. That's how I view it.

I judge her less harshly than I do the men who gang-raped the title character of of Cheeky Gyaru Sister R18 in chapter 2.5 of that series*, but that's due to my own gender, not to any real difference in the degree of wrongdoing involved.

I say that because, as a man, I feel sickened and ashamed by the worst of what men do to women. I feel a certain degree of personal responsibility for it, though I know it's merely responsibility by association.

I feel no personal responsibility, however, for the worst of what women do to men. I instead view it rather abstractly, as a sort of challenge. I wonder without much emotion how I would feel and react in such a situation.

I doubt that will satisfy you, but it's the best I can do ¯\(ツ)/¯

* a grueling, omni-phyrric, and utterly pointless death march "discussion" of which can be found here.

You think it was rape but you have double standards about it. Got it.

 

[beep_repair]

You think it was rape but you have double standards about it. Got it.

Absolutely. Where my feelings are concerned, I have lots of different standards. For instance, I judge my family and closest friends far more kindly and trust them far more willingly than most other people. That's a product of the strong feelings I have for them. Our feelings, in and of themselves, are not bound by rationality or morality.

If Ekoda were a real person and I were a juror at her trial, I would set my feelings aside and judge her rationally, to the best of my ability, according the letter of the law. But she's not real, and I'm not on her jury. I'm just a guy reading a fictional story, and in that context, there's no reason to set aside emotion in favor of rational morality.

 

[Seraphsent]

This is such a weirdly disjointed manga. The mangaka keeps introducing new elements that briefly look like they could be important in the long term, then they just sort of peter out or fade away, and it moves on to the next thing that looks like it might be important in the long term but then isn't.

This was an underappreciated comment but it perfectly summarizes my thoughts on this manga.

 

[ExarchOfAfrica]

Bro you were raped while drunk, you didn't break no rule and your teacher should serve time lmao

 

[ewjifowejfiowe]

OMG NOT THE CAMERA!

 

[R2_Vanitas]

he was mad about all that, not just he got raped
he was mad about the mam substituting him for saiga
he was mad about maam just ignoring his feelings for fmc
he was mad about he got used
either way,
maybe we will see maam to redeem herself, because as the manga targets harem, and its pretty much confirmed that two cover are heroines
what i think is maam will end up with saiga
and it would be better,

 

[raze2012]

I was hoping that it was because he was raped that got him mad, hopefully it doesn't drop the notion that it was indeed rape that happened.

It's a high school boy with raging hormones. The vast majority are never going to see an approach of a beautiful older woman as a sexual violation.

I am not so sure the author even fucking realises what she is doing. What fucking "iron rule" nonsense? Get real. This is bullshit.

do you remember the very beginning of the manga? It's pretty much the crux of his entire character.

don't you FUCKING dare make this about anything other than what it really was.

Like it or not, you also don't get to tell the MC how he feels about his experiences. Everyone reacts differently.

Who cares about your father iron rule. You're the director now not your father so make your own rule.

I think that'll ultimately be how it ends. The dad's rules make sense as a high profile cameraman who has to be invisible to the set. Hi ruleset is exactly what helps some multimillion dollar blockbuster get made with minimal controversy.

But then we also know that that detachment can make some of the most safe, politically correct cinema out there. MC here from the start was taking a much more avante garde position on what and how he filmed, meant to rile up reactions. His relationship with Honjou started over a voyeur recording (pretty much breaking all filmmaking rules lol), so it's inevitable that he's going to have intimate relations with subjects who are fully exposing themselves (literally). "Normal" actors would never even agree to work with MC to begin with, so you gonna attract the passionate and the crazies alike.

But that's not always a bad thing, and forming a chemistry with your team can make for stuff that truly feels like there's heart to it. He won't realize that until he realizes that his style isn't the same as his auteur father. And that there's more than one way to be an auteur director.

 

[BloodFalcon22]

Surprised to see so many of the comments over the last few chapters being upset about the direction things went, rather than simply admiring that it's actually great storytelling depicting pretty realistic emotional complexity.

Was Sensei wrong for taking advantage of Shirasawa? Yes, by any means it's statutory rape. Not intending to "brag" whatsoever but I experienced this type of thing when I was a 16 year old male with a woman 10 years my senior, it was a messed up situation that left emotional wounds but these things happen and I'm fine now. As such I'd like to think I can speak to the issues here with a little bit of authority even if it's just one person's opinion:

Those saying Sensei is simply a predator who outright forcefully raped him for her own self-indulgence aren't paying attention to the story. The situation unfolded as it did because both Sensei & Shirasawa have character flaws that were being slowly explored/set up and finally came to a head leading to what transpired. Sensei had always hid underneath a mask because of the way she was treated based off appearance alone, and Saiga & Shirasawa as directors were the only ones to "see" her true self underneath through directing talent. She admired Saiga's directing talent and ability to connect/see the real her, but ultimately he rejected her value as an actress which left her scarred since she deeply trusted his ability to see the truth about people. Deep emotional wounds like that can lead to people engaging in problematic & manipulative behavior, especially against vulnerable individuals or where a power dynamic is unbalanced.

Along comes the young & talented Shirasawa who displays that same ability to peak underneath her mask and draw out her true self, but this time it's different because he sees the beauty in her ability and admires her for it rather than rejecting her. While she does compared him to Saiga, it's not exactly that she's using Shirasawa as a 'replacement' for him as Shirasawa implies in his outburst. Rather, she longed for this deeper interpersonal "director-actress" relationship which crosses boundaries and previously did not end the way she wanted. With Shirasawa she saw her chance to relive the opportunity with a new director, not as a substitute for Saiga, but with one who actually drew out her true self to an even further extent than him: She saved scenes from the hot springs filming on her phone for 'personal fulfillment' saying that they were her favorite even above everything she did with Saiga. All that being said, she ultimately does "play dirty" by giving him alcohol and making very strong physical approaches to seal the deal with Shirasawa, because she wants control of the situation to go her way this time and not relive the past emotional trauma. While he did not resist, and in fact reciprocated, it's still not okay no matter how real her feelings were.

Now onto Shirasawa's character flaw which allowed this situation to transpire even though he probably realistically did have some ability to shut it down: He displays an inability to both set and recognize boundaries with those around him. He violated personal boundaries at the beginning of the story by filming the teacher's affair. He violated Honjou's personal boundaries by filming her fap session in the library (even though she was into it, he didn't know at the time at did it anyways). He pushes boundaries in his filming session between what is/isn't okay - Using his dog to rile up Honjou while blindfolded, forcing Sensei to piss herself while dressed as a dog, etc. He isn't innocent in all this whatsoever, even as a minor, he exhibits problematic behavior. With Honjou the boundaries between her being his actress vs. his girlfriend continue to blur, well after he put his self-imposed ironclad rules into place. And here with him hooking up with Sensei he once again fails to adhere to the boundaries he is supposed to respect, and in doing so potentially ruining his relationship with Honjou which was becoming more romantically developed.

Anyways this long of a comment this late after release probably is overkill, but I felt like coming to the author's defense on this because I'm really enjoying the story and hope that others can also try to appreciate the deeper messages rather than just remarking at the basic plot point events.

Edit: I'm also slightly concerned about the fact that homeboy apparently straight up nutted inside Sensei and she didn't seem to think twice about it..