Happy Holidays: Server Upgrades and Rule Updates

[usagiaddict]

That's not a new rule, it's been there for months. We're not planning on changing its interpretation compared to thus far.

And OP states, it's new rule. So you've been excercising this new rule 9 months ago? Care to explain what is even going here?

Nobody is going to get banned, and if this change were because of Rapeman specifically, we would've done it a long time ago

And yet from the screen I've posted your forum moderator openly says he was trying multiple times to ban Rapeman's ass from MD.

We've only used the "content that could be construed as offensive" part of the rule a single time (...) We haven't used it a single time since then

I know how wildcards work, do you? And while it surely makes general public happy you've used it only once it definitely doesn't make me happy, as I know how this can be exploited further and further. Looking at @Zephyrus posts it makes me feel more than just uncomfortable. As for that whole NZ shooting - don't put words in my mouth, pretty please. I can't make my own opinion as I haven't got chance to see any related credit pages. But I'm so, so happy you can make my opinions all by yourself. As I've said before - block function is already implemented, noone seems to notice this fact.

 

[Teasday]

Ultimately we can't really do much more than ask for people to pass judgment on our moderating decisions and rule interpretations after we've actually done them rather than imagining doomsday scenarios based on what the rules would theoretically allow us to do.

I would ask people to take our past conduct into account when trying to predict the future and ask themselves if we haven't been consistent with whatever standards we've set ourselves, and what kind of thresholds cause us to take action. Our team changes at a glacial pace, our values are the same as they were yesterday and the day before and so on.

 

[Plykiya]

@usagiaddict I guess it's my bad for saying "we're creating a rule" instead of "we're updating a rule."

The previous 3.2.7 was: Adding extra page(s) to chapters for the purpose of crediting scanlators or translation notes is generally OK. Extra pages which contain content that could be construed as offensive may be removed by staff.

The new 3.2.7 is: Adding extra page(s) to chapters for the purpose of crediting scanlators or translation notes is generally OK. Extra pages which contain extraneous political content, agendas, propaganda, commentary, race-baiting or content that could be construed as offensive may be removed by staff. Extra pages are also subject to the same standards as listed out in section 5.1.

The entire paragraph describing the rule is centered about inserted politics, and that's what the change addresses

 

[Teasday]

_{@usagiaddict posted:}

And OP states, it's new rule. So you've been excercising this new rule 9 months ago? Care to explain what is even going here?

This is what the rule used to be:

3.2.7 Adding extra page(s) to chapters for the purpose of crediting scanlators or translation notes is generally OK. Extra pages which contain content that could be construed as offensive may be removed by staff.

As you can see, it's nearly identical except for the recent clarification of political subjects. Plyk already explained the rest.

I'm slow

And yet from the screen I've posted your forum moderator openly says he was trying multiple times to ban Rapeman's ass from MD.

And yet he hasn't been banned! This should tell you something if you thought about it for a second. Zeph is free to announce he wants Rapeman banned. Doesn't mean he necessarily gets what he wants.

 

[Zephyrus]

@usagiaddict
No one on staff is forbidden from expressing their personal opinions so long as it doesn't interfere with the execution of official MD policy.

If I were some "power hungry mod" bent on making MD my own personal fiefdom, I can guarantee that @Holo would have removed me months ago. I'm sorry that my opinions bother you but I will not refrain from sharing them.

 

[Hounder]

All I can say is this, rapeman knows exactly what he is doing, and this thread is a result. He wanted to push the envelope, to cause chaos, and many of you posters are simply tools to a means for him. There is a such thing as going too far with what says, and he has obviously went too far in some things. You know it, but are simply not willing to admit it because of some mistaken idea that you have an inherent right to say or do whatever you want anywhere you want on the internet. I actually believe a few of you would jump for joy if he started posting pages of child porn claiming it was the Muslims.

Those who cause the most issues are also the ones who claim the most just causes irregardless of the truth in the matter. Get mad, say what you want, but there are limits. You want chaos, 4-chan is all yours.

If rapeman or others wish to pull there works because of this modification of the rules, so be it. As much as I enjoy reading manga, there isn't a single one that is so important to me that I would break down/freak out/what-not if they left. The last "big exodus", I lost a mere 1% of my reading list. Yep, that's all. Boy, that was really painful, eh? May make me sad if one I was enjoying disappears, but I know I will get over it. If it is that important to you, then that is your business.

The mods here right now just want to try and keep certain issues to a minimum, to prevent hate wars, but it appears that some of you just don't give a damn about it.

 

[Cianna]

err, late, so im so so very truly extremely sorry for going off topic at this point, however;

Merry Christmas for now, since it still is Christmas Day in most of the world currently at around 10 30 est, 730 pst, some other time gst

idrc, Merry Christmas, i hope every1 gets all the things they want from all the gachas today, wew-

w/e early it still isnt new years yet and happy holidays, past or otherwise. end, prob will maybe try edit or somethingidk,

_
@Yourself , modding sounds like alot of work, sure that the whole "small team of mod ppl" implies even if more adjustments are made, they aren't gonna actually happen, or at least that is my belief,

i forgot what i was gonna type here, ,,

personally, when people see enough of armchair lawyers on the internet, they may sometimes find another free source of content, just avoid certain comment sections,,_

@Hounder , maybe, um chill a bit, i think, cuz it seems like ur getting trolled although it does help paint a picture for people that can be calm and perhaps willing to look into it without all the confirmation bias, idk-

sorry again, this post took way too long, and im slow so me late again qq, gn merry christmas and חֲנֻכָּה , and stuff, idk

 

[sterven]

What I don't understand is how some people can sit here and preach to us about moral values and shit.

Also glad that one comment telling rapeman to "go kill yourself racist" got modded it only took about a
month but hey don't let anyone catch you saying a rape joke cause your ass is out of here faster than you
can blink.

 

[Cianna]

im blind, srry, again, so basically srry for necro, i will try my best to on topic this time:

_ if there r people that ever truly believe that spacespaces,

*safespaces, wow that was hard to type wew, why do people do that to themselves? qq srry
but yea, no one ever in their half maybe just a quarter of a sort of right mind would believe that safe spaces r possible, can exist anywhere on the internet, srry -if i indirectly insulted some1 but like, every1 knows, just like those gun prohibited zones that seem to maybe be something of a thing, well just like those,- ,

safe, and possibly exclusive spaces just cannot by definition exist on the internet, so the children rly need to stop being so afraid of them, srsly, fear the things that could be in the dark, not the absence of light itself, grow up,, dmt

also something sonthing the website itself has no real reason to host images of things one, not comics related =open to interpretation,
and 2, things that it does not want to host, like, if some kid random adult maybe more traditional maybe some half dragon attack helicopter plant, something else idk, it does not matter wat they r, if say the w/e in question were making sounds near me and i wanted it to stop, so i tell it to shut up, is that* censorship, maybe? sure lets say it is, ima keep telling people to not make sounds you can't stop me, honestly one side is large but mostly silent, the ones that can't think and only shout almost at random r just crazy, the other side makes no sense but the notorious characters of this other side basically believe that they should have the right to insult and generally make people they don't care about miserable, and then act like the offended people should have no right to feel offended, it is funny to meself when i say it like it this, it isn't when i realise it to be reality and a rather big problem, esp in the developed world, im sadbrb

 

[Zephyrus]

@sterven
Since you seem to be implying that MD has a personal vendetta against rapeman let me clear up a few things for you:

1. We rely on users to report rules violations. No staff member has the desire or ability to see every single comment posted on MD. Sometimes that leads to some rules violations falling through the cracks or a delay in enforcement. If you dislike this then you can push for users to be more vigilant.

2. Aside from myself who has made it very clear that I believe that rapeman is a pretty disgusting human being, moral values "and shit" did not inform the reworking of 3.2.7. The type of content we are disallowing on extra pages has to do with politics in general, not the specific nature of those politics.

You are certainly free to express your dissatisfaction with this rule, but please don't make false implications or put words in staffs' mouths.

 

[olsloanylonesome]

When the moderation team institutes rules which target specific scanlation groups with the intent to censor them, and then acts like it isnt their fault that the censored parties leave, it tells me that the moderation team cares more about keeping this website "clean" from controversial viewpoints more than they care about hosting content that people enjoy.

 

[Sola]

FFS people... The admins explained their reasoning for it and it's actually very logical and sensible.

Why should this site's moderators have to dedicate inordinate amounts of their time to moderating a select number of chapter comment threads just because one asshat or group of asshats just had to add an unnecessary political page to a non-political manga? Let's put an end to the damned political soapboxing by scanlation groups.

This is a manga-reading website, first and foremost. There are many other places on the web for people to have page after page of political or other similar debates, or enjoy garbage posts unrelated to the manga chapter for which they've been posted.

I sincerely hope that the people (and groups) who don't like the rule will just go away. Nothing of value will be lost.

 

[Ovdose]

Merry Christmas to everyone!

And then for my opinions on the new rules.
I don't mind 2.6 at all. It's completely in line with what I believe MD is about to the point that I'm surprised it hasn't been added earlier. I don't have any personal feelings about it but it's an objectively good rule.

But 3.2.7? I feel a bit bad about it. I hope Rapeman goes back on his word to leave if he's ever made unable to add his jokes/memes/whatever to the credit pages because I enjoy a manga he's translating (or 2 mangas if he intends to continue translating 'The Rapeman'). The increased likelyhood of these mangas being dropped is what is making me sad.
I read some groups' credit pages while I ignore some other groups' credit pages. It's disappointing that other people can't do the same and we had to get a new rule to fix the problem of people deciding to read something they already knew would make them angry. And this goes beyond just Rapeman's credit pages. The credit page of chapter 37 of Gokushufudou surprised me - even groups with completely harmless credit pages apparently get attacked by these angry people who for some reason feel obliged to read the credit page even if they already know they won't like it.

And yes, I know I'm not giving any better ways to fix the issue. I would offer a solution if I had one but for now I'll just have to stick to complaining about things which I don't like.

 

[sterven]

@Zephyrus
Who ever said or implied MD had a vendetta against rapeman? I didn't so don't put words in my mouth.
I don't know any of the staff so I won't ever imply that they have a vendetta against any particular group. What
I do know is that you a member of the staff do not like rapeman and believe that the "slime of humanity haunt his manga threads"
so naturally that leads me to believe that there is some bias against him amongst the staff. Don't get me wrong you are free to express your opinions of him or anyone
else however you want but do not be surprised when others call you out for it.

 

[Cianna]

sorry @sterven, idk how to spell ur name, scrolling is hard work

or, idk something about, yeah, morals r basically worthless, just ignore people that try to force their ideals on you like so many b4 me will like to repeat about how no one is forcing you to look or see things you don't want to see, srry i still dont get it w/e
but srsly like y'al l needa like chill, and i think morals r dumb

i should prob make an alt acc since i have yet to see any other people contirnue their own opinions and instead just get another name to essentially bump their idea, eh maybe in 5355u4y4 years or, nvm i can't type, dem i suck qq
idc srry, basically there is no reason whatsoever to be so afraid of censorship since if you some1 wanted to censor they can just do what randoms did to like, champion, meraki or w/e and harrass them until they quit the site cuz i don't see any1 bringing them up
no idea where im going with this, however like, if you want to read on an aggregator and not fund them, just teach urself how to use tor or any sort of javascript blocking add on for w/e internet surfing doohicky ya wanna use, k noone forcing you to be on this website, 7m+ different people visiting this site is more than enough lol

i spend too much time on forums, before i leave soon um, basically,

i just wanna say that if "telling the truths" causes multiple group of people to lash out cause problems, and general ly just spread toxicity around to more than few places, without providing any benefit or helping make anything better, then those instances of "telling the truths" should if possible, absolutely be prohibited, ty
_ , well this thread didn't wasnt gonna go off or anything, something like that i tjinki forgot or mention-haveniceday
lastly, all the anti-lolicons need to stop, ganging up on people, it appears not only rather uncivil, almost all of them don't actually give anything about the real problems and outside of not working for fbi or similar agencies, cannot even be bother to actually pay attention to, or even try maybe to contribute towards stopping actual child predators or anything along those lines, something im tired, end/

 

[Setsuna-chan]

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

 

[sterven]

@Cianna
I know bringing a sense of morality on the internet is one of the dumbest things you can do. I could ignore the new rule as it in no way shape or form affects me as I tend to
watch what I say most of the time regardless of whether it is allowed or not but unfortunately for me and most of the people here I am a very outspoken person so I
don't know when to shut up.

 

[GGpX]

Ah, right, the whole moderation of what is and isn't offensive. This has always worked so, so well (assuming you're on one specific political aisle and not the other). Rapeman's credit pages are so, so, soooooo awful, but the other guy who says white people are filth are okay. Both have one thing in common: Nobody's forcing you to read their worldviews, but that's neither here or there, is it?

"Extra pages which contain extraneous political content, agendas, propaganda, commentary, race-baiting or content that could be construed as offensive may be removed by staff."

Plykiya says, "We're the ones most aware of the slippery slope, hence why we try to avoid concrete statements as much as possible."

You guys are so funny. You claim you do not want to create a slippery slope, yet you are the very same ones pouring the oil by the bucket. All you are doing is making things worse and worse.

So let's say User A claims group X's credit page is offensive. Okay.
Is one person claiming the credit page is offensive enough to have it removed? Does the person need to write up a reason, or can they just point at it and say "I'm offended"? What if nobody else thinks the credit page is offensive, is it going to be simply left there? If it's a numbers game, what's the amount of complaints for one credit page required to get it removed?
What is the process for the dismissal of the credit page?
What is the transparency behind it?
Is it a democratic vote, and if so amongst whom and for how much time? What are the rules, is it 50%+1 wins or 60%+ wins? Does it have to be unanimous? Will the vote be made public? Will the results be posted?
Is there going to be time devoted to discussion over the merits of whether the page should be dismissed or not?

Most importantly: What, exactly, is offensive? I don't want a broad, arbitrary definition, I want a clear, precise definition with examples and a specific line drawn in the sand. If you can't do that, your rule is worth less than the paper it was written on - or in this case, the computer it was typed on I guess.

I've always been against excess moderation because it always leads to this. The users on this site already have an easy and clear way to avoid things they don't like: There are filters. People can block out series with Ecchi, block out Adult series, block out Isekai series, block groups, etc. if they don't like those. I can filter it so I only see slice of life series if that's my thing. There are plenty of ways to go about it.

All this rule does is force the moderators & co to work a lot harder... all assuming they're going to apply to rule in a fair manner.

If you're not going to do it in a fair manner, just be open and honest with people. Write the rule that way: This is our site, we don't need to justify ourselves to you and if there are things we don't like in your chapter, regardless of the reason we reserve the right to remove it.

Problem solved.

 

[flavorful]

Here's my take:
The block user/group feature exists for a reason, and it works. Ignoring it to nanny users and discourage scanlators from posting their work because of hurt feefees is a bad look no matter what side of the aisle you're on. If anything bans for creating false reports (Rule 5.3.3) should be the gold standard of how this issue should be handled. Reports for "I'm offended/ I don't like this/ etc." are annoying, I'm sure, so I get where this is coming from, but I and many others here clearly see this rule change as an imposition of the creative/expressive freedoms of scanlators (of which, it has been expressed that Mangadex cares about).
Of course, this site is a private entity and the admins can do whatever they want in making rules, and the transparency from the team is duly appreciated. However, it is clear, in my mind (and many others) that this will only hurt users of the site who are mature enough to ignore or purvey the content that they enjoy at the behest of those who complain and wish to silence any ideological opposition that they could just as easily block/ignore.
tl;dr The rule isn't great and MD's user's intelligence should be respected enough to use the filtering functions already available, without having to set vague, easily misinterpretable rules. Please reconsider this decision as it only hurts those of us who love this site and don't need our hands held.

 

[Cianna]

2E, HUH, oh srry,

@Rem-chan ,* srry i mean err- u2 qq, happy holidays, it isn't new yrs but have a nice day, maybe enjoy time off during, whatever this current idk holidays it apparently is supposed to be, Merry Christmas to you if it still is Christmas where u r at current y, gn