Have a dedicated button to separate the old comment system from the new system

[shinya78]

Since someone might as well make the suggestion...

Ever since the complaints about the button that used to direct the old comments to the forums are now being used by the new system, and that the old chapter discussion comments are now being buried underneath it. I suggest adding a new button, not unlike the old one, that would serve the purpose of separating the new integrated comments from the old forum comments.

The old button could function the same as before, just rebranded to something different, while the new button would serve for the new integrated comments. For example, forum [Discuss]ions vs casual [Comment]s. (Or use the new button for the old system, whichever is easier for the devs.)

This is effectively a suggestion to rebrand the old chapter comments in the forums reader as DISCUSS(ions), as an example, to differentiate it from the new system that is taking over as the new COMMENT(s).

This would allow users to quickly comment using the new system, while keeping the old system just as easily accessible as it used to for forum discussions, ensuring that both systems could co-exist without so much a fuss.

"Can we have two buttons?": No, it's confusing, and that will lead to a further split of platform vs forums.

Confusing? How?
All this does is give easy access to what still exists as the old forum comments. The sub-forum where these old comments are located is already called Chapter Discussions for that specific reason. Rebranding the old system to something else would clearly tell the user what to expect, light comments about the chapter vs deep discussions about the chapter. Sure, anyone could use either system for whatever purpose with varying degrees of success, but having both options being openly available right in front for everyone to use is better than burying the old function underneath the new one. Users will naturally trickle down to whichever system they want for whichever purpose.

If the idea was having both alive as mentioned by @Bartolumiu

the plan is to keep both the new comments and the forums alive at the same time, with each having its own purpose.
Title and chapter comments on the new system, and general chatting and discussion here in the forums (so yeah, lurkers, you can keep lurking as you've been doing up until now).

Then this should be a no-brainer.

edit:

Hi, I received a developer reply regarding this suggestion, I'll be posting it here:

Have two buttons: one for forums and one for on-site comments on the chapter list items

Unlikely. It'll be confusing. Easy example: "Interesting chapter, let's read the comments... wait, there are two kinds of comments?"

Once again, the reason they give is that it'll be confusing. Citing that their example user would be "confused when they see that there are two kinds of comments now."

How is this a valid reason when:

• Implementing the [new comments system] while keeping the [old "comments" system](forum discussions) alive already establish the fact that there are indeed two kinds of comments now.
• They acknowledged that the button shouldn't open the reader if users only want to read the comments. This is the very same function the old button had, but for chapter discussions in the forums instead, the function already existed.

Hi, I'll post here a reply I received from the developers regarding this suggestion:

Do not open the reader if you just want to read the comments

"Valid. We will be exploring ways of doing this."

• They acknowledged that "read # older comments" should be renamed to indicate that these are the comments in the forums, which are separate from the new system. Surely their example users would see this, become confused, and ask "wait, there are two kinds of comments?".

Hi, I'll be posting here a developer reply regarding this suggestion:

Be explicit about the fact that older comments exist in the forums to prevent confusing it as if you're going to be navigated to the next page of comments.

"Valid. We'll be discussing on the wording side of things and see if we can be explicit with the fact that it is indeed the forums."

• Having two buttons would quickly let users choose whether to access and use the new system[Comments], or the old system[Forums] with a single click. Something the current setup allows for the new system, but an extra step is needed to be done for the old system. Was the plan to make the forum discussions more obscure than ever, by making it one click further away?

The only other valid reason left that I could think of that doesn't go into tinfoil hat territory that would legitimize their claim, is if, and this is a big IF:

• They assumed when the users asked for two buttons, it meant they should share the exact same icons.

To which I say, it should've been obvious that the icons should be different, without the need for us users to spell it out for them. Even then, making a new icon if none currently exists, shouldn't be out of the question.

If they still claim the same reason for refusal, or change goalposts, then by that point maybe it's due time to get the tinfoil hats.

 

[Rockdrop]

Innocent comments where harmed in the making of this post.

https://imgur.com/lDUSDgG

 

[shinya78]

Innocent comments where harmed in the making of this post.
[snip]

Can't tell if meme post, or didn't read.

 

[T-sama]

Rip Dungeon no Osananajimi comments, another victim

 

[Osha]

The "it's too confusing" reply is so dumb, how about they let the users be the judge of that instead of assuming everyone is as dumb as they claim we are ?

 

[N2O]

The "it's too confusing" reply is so dumb, how about they let the users be the judge of that instead of assuming everyone is as dumb as they claim we are ?

 

[asfhoiasfjoiasfjpi]

i mean at this point they're just "fixing" something that isnt broken to try and get cash lol

 

[asfhoiasfjoiasfjpi]

Obligatory reminder that CommentsTM is currently pay-to-beta test, and will be available absolutely free for all regular users when the paying chefs are done cooking.

I do believe nobody wanted a taste, my man

 

[NikoNikoNii]

Why are so many **** shilling for these changes? It is just a preview of what will continue to happen. Can only hope the next transition is as smooth as it was from batoto to MD

 

[T-sama]

Rip Fugue Across Worlds comments cause only supporters can post or create threads

 

[kouyo]

READ FURTHER INTO THE THREAD SINCE THIS INFO IS INCORRECT​

Hi everyone, just wanted to share some context on the direction of the comment system. The long-term goal is actually to consolidate chapter discussions into the new system and eventually phase out the forums for chapter discussions.
The current setup exists because:

1. Access is limited to a small group of users (Supporters, Contributors, Group Leaders, etc).
2. "Legacy" comments still need to be migrated.

Adding a "forums button" isn't currently on the roadmap because the forums themselves aren't part of the long-term UI.

 

[BobBiscuit]

Adding a "forums button" isn't on the roadmap because the forums themselves aren't part of the long-term UI.

So it all really was just Corporate PR Damage Control, from the start. Thank you for having the courage to come out and say it outright. Doesn't make me feel better about Mangadex's direction going forward, but I do appreciate the honesty.

 

[mgRdr]

Adding a "forums button" isn't currently on the roadmap because the forums themselves aren't part of the long-term UI.

Suppose, but short term, user experience is degraded compared to how it used to be, and the comments don't appear to be anywhere near the replacement of the forums, and I don't see them being ready in the next couple months at the very least, meanwhile adding a button is a trivial change and would make the site experience better today

 

[kouyo]

Adding a "forums button" isn't currently on the roadmap because the forums themselves aren't part of the long-term UI.

To be clear: don't take this as a rejection, we're still discussing on how to approach this suggestion

 

[Hicleric]

Hi everyone, just wanted to share some context on the direction of the comment system. The long-term goal is actually to consolidate chapter discussions into the new system and eventually phase out the forums for chapter discussions.
The current setup exists because:

1. Access is limited to a small group of users (Supporters, Contributors, Group Leaders, etc).
2. "Legacy" comments still need to be migrated.

Adding a "forums button" isn't currently on the roadmap because the forums themselves aren't part of the long-term UI.

Is there a way to pin this to the front page of every manga? Given the tone of many an irate comment I've seen today, that might be the only way to get the word out

More seriously though, an short notice like this visibly posted a day or so before a substantive change goes live would go miles

 

[T-sama]

Rip proper chapter discussion since the new comment screen is garbage for the long comments / discussions we had in many series

 

[shinya78]

The long-term goal is actually to consolidate chapter discussions into the new system and eventually phase out the forums for chapter discussions.

I don't even need to use the OP in this exact same thread as an example...

Image trying to fit this bad boy in the current iteration of the new comments system. Yes, that is indeed a real discussion post, in the chapter discussions sub-forum, courtesy of yours truly. That thread alone is a treasure trove of posts that currently won't fit in the new system.

Adding a "forums button" isn't currently on the roadmap because the forums themselves aren't part of the long-term UI.

So, what you're saying is, this just might be the ACTUAL REASON why they don't want to add that second button? Why not, when the phase-out is yet to show up on the horizon?

 

[kouyo]

Hi everyone, quick update as apparently I got things wrong with my last message:

The long-term goal is actually to consolidate chapter discussions into the new system and eventually phase out the forums for chapter discussions.

While this is not entirely untrue, we will keep both systems running as long as users keep on using them, this means that we won't phase out any system if there's enough usage of it. Likewise, if one is used more than the other, then the most used one will prevail. More explicitly said if forums are sunset for chapter discussions, it will be because they'll no longer be used substantially much to justify having two places of discussion.

Our goal is to incentive the usage of the new system and we're working really hard in making the experience correct for that.
Why we did this? I explained this elsewhere so I'll quote myself here

Since the forum software isn't something we have much control over, building our own comment system allows us to implement features much more easily without the technical hurdles of the current platform.

2. "Legacy" comments still need to be migrated.

This will only occur if we need to phase out one of the systems.

Adding a "forums button" isn't currently on the roadmap because the forums themselves aren't part of the long-term UI.

Like I mentioned before, we're still discussing on ways to approach this suggestion, developers expressed interest in adding more easy ways to access the forums discussions.

I would lastly like to apologize to everyone for the incorrect information I provided and I'll make sure to be more careful in that regard going forward.

 

[ireadit]

Rip proper chapter discussion since the new comment screen is garbage for the long comments / discussions we had in many series

Welp, guess we will have to find another place for proper discussions; I suspect the new comments will look like those on Manga Plus, i.e. nothing of substance. But hey, at least there's engagement.

Hell, one could probably whip up a user script that inserts a button that goes to a thread on e.g. AniList or MAL. Only issue I see is that one would need some kind of central registry (a redirection service) that maps chapters to threads.

Would much prefer you keep a proper forum system, though.

//edit: Okay, I posted while @kouyo were posting their message. Let's hope the old system stays.

 

[jeezits]

Hi everyone, quick update as apparently I got things wrong with my last message:

While this is not entirely untrue, we will keep both systems running as long as users keep on using them, this means that we won't phase out any system if there's enough usage of it. Likewise, if one is used more than the other, then the most used one will prevail. More explicitly said if forums are sunset for chapter discussions, it will be because they'll no longer be used substantially much to justify having two places of discussion.

Our goal is to incentive the usage of the new system-

We're not going to use the new system.

Its implementation is poor, it's overly limited, and there's no reason for it when an existing system that people use already fulfills every possible use case.

That's the only feedback you're going to get, it's the only feedback that matters, and you need to accept that and live with it. Best option now is a rollback and forget this new (stupid) direction and find a better path to monetization. hth

 

[shinya78]

Hi everyone, quick update as apparently I got things wrong with my last message:

While this is not entirely untrue, we will keep both systems running as long as users keep on using them, this means that we won't phase out any system if there's enough usage of it. Likewise, if one is used more than the other, then the most used one will prevail. More explicitly said if forums are sunset for chapter discussions, it will be because they'll no longer be used substantially much to justify having two places of discussion.

So... how do you reckon users fit something like this bad boy in the new system's current iteration? Would spammage of 'thx for chapter lol' could count towards meaningful usage of the new system as a place for discussions?

Our goal is to incentive the usage of the new system and we're working really hard in making the experience correct for that.
Why we did this? I explained this elsewhere so I'll quote myself here

Since the forum software isn't something we have much control over, building our own comment system allows us to implement features much more easily without the technical hurdles of the current platform.

So basically this is all XenForo's fault.
ONORE XENFOROOOO~!!

2. "Legacy" comments still need to be migrated.

This will only occur if we need to phase out one of the systems.

Gotta sort out that character limitation at least, as a start.

Like I mentioned before, we're still discussing on ways to approach this suggestion, developers expressed interest in adding more easy ways to access the forums discussions.

I would lastly like to apologize to everyone for the incorrect information I provided and I'll make sure to be more careful in that regard going forward.

Honest correspondence is very much appreciated, sadly, currently underappreciated with the recent failures in communication, as evident as some users still stubbornly call the new comments system as paywalled services.