Isekai de Haishin Katsudou wo Shitara Tairyou no Yandere Shinja wo Umidashite Shimatta Ken - Vol. 1 Ch. 9

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"sex work is real work!"
"sex work is a vital profession like any other!"
"if you don't want to marry sex workers, you are a bigot misogynist!"


This chapter was a "current year", liberal feminist twitter activist's fever dream.


Dropped. Don't even @ me, effeminate eunuchs, don't care.

EDIT: I am laughing at all the castrated bugmen ITT
you're free to your opinion but you do realize that not viewing prostitutes as second class citizens has been a talking point for decades, right? probably centuries. It's definitely not "current year" stuff lol
 
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Everyone who works for a living sells themselves, becoming a commodity in the labor market.
My being a software engineer doesn't increase my chances of getting raped and infected with chlamydia by at least a factor of 10. Nobody is trying to kidnap me to ship to India to be sold to the highest bidder that'll put me to work in a software development firm for no pay where I'm liable to be a victim of the manager's rage as he strangles me at least half to death in a fit.

In no way is prostitution equal to the work of non-prostitutes. Not even in societies where prostitution was or is condoned, has that ever been thought. Rome didn't have "blacksmith farms" where they grabbed orphans off the street and raised them with the expectation of becoming blacksmiths-- but they had that for prostitutes.

Interesting as a group of data points, but not definitive or convincing in any sense.
And a mostly source-less HRC article along with an article that talks about something ultimately different, is supposed to be more convincing and definitive? More than it being demonstrated that sex trafficking INCREASED in places with proper legalization and regulation? More than actual prostitutes talking about how they don't like their job and how endangered it makes them feel-- whether legal or illegal? More than the reality that prostitutes are mostly raped by definition?

This is putting aside anything else I've linked to that provides any picture at all of the practical situation.

It's a question of quality more than quantity.
You hardly have a number of examples of relevance-- never mind quality.

Don't let it be lost on you that it was because of me that we started talking about actually-tried real-world applications of legal and regulated prostitution-- prior to that, you weren't writing any less abstractly than the HRC article you recently linked to, and following that, you insisted that legal and regulated prostitution just hasn't been done well enough.

How is your argument not "it'd work out well enough if we did it in a way that worked out well enough"? Because they're already regulating, they're already licensing, they're already monitoring, and everything still sucks-- all you could have to say is "they have to do it better".

The legalization of prostitution coupled with the closely-monitored licensing of individual citizen prostitutes and the careful, sensible regulation of the resulting legal industry (which I'm calling "LLR" for the sake of convenience) is primarily intended to protect and aid the prostitutes who choose to operate legally -- and to help mitigate some of the social harms caused by illegal prostitution.
And it largely fails, because the legal prostitution industry is nonetheless partly supplied by sex trafficking and heavily intersects with organized crime, linking it with illegal prostitution.

It's not just that it hardly accomplishes anything you said it would because of what it actually is (and what it therefore demands of the government in order to manage in any way)-- it cannot.

There's so much debate about the "Swedish model"
HRC said that too, without ever actually exemplifying that debate.

But in my view it doesn't do anywhere near enough to aid prostitutes and normalize sex work.
If you have any concrete conception of prostitution at all, you'll realize this is a pipe dream.

you're free to your opinion but you do realize that not viewing prostitutes as second class citizens--
"Not viewing prostitutes as second class citizens" isn't what he pointed out. What he pointed out were three points of defense for the prostitution industry that the narrative explicitly and/or implicitly makes.

The chapter in fact argues that prostitutes are equally people. It also argues that their work is as valid, valuable, and respectable as work where you aren't treated as a breathing sex toy by people who ultimately objectify you.
 
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"Not viewing prostitutes as second class citizens" isn't what he pointed out. What he pointed out were three points of defense for the prostitution industry that the narrative explicitly and/or implicitly makes.

The chapter in fact argues that prostitutes are equally people. It also argues that their work is as valid, valuable, and respectable as work where you aren't treated as a breathing sex toy by people who ultimately objectify you.
ok... my point still stands but since you need it explicitly stated for you to understand, none of those takes are new. Marrying a prostitute/fixing her has been a minor literary trope for centuries. While "sex work is real work" as a slogan is new, the sentiment definitely isn't. I don't remember verbatim but I don't remember the text saying that prostitutes are "vital" but I also don't think that's a common "current year" thing to say but I'm not a twittercel so maybe I just missed it.

I hope this helps clear up your pedant rage but in future, when someone just makes a one or two sentence rebuttal that has a slight hyperbole, they probably do understand the literal text they're responding to but just didn't want to engage with an obviously dumb stance more than pointing out a reason why it's obviously dumb. In my case, saying that nothing really said in this chapter dates it to "current year" leftist bullshit.

A good rebuttal is to explicitly point to one of the things the original commentor said that is new and has never been argued before the current couple of years instead of whining that I dared paraphrase the sentiment.
 
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In no way is prostitution equal to the work of non-prostitutes.
Agreed. Nonetheless, everyone who works sells themselves -- albeit in different ways.

And a mostly source-less HRC article along with an article that talks about something ultimately different, is supposed to be more convincing and definitive?
Not necessarily. It's up to you, and you've made your position clear.

You hardly have a number of examples of relevance-- never mind quality.
I'm not interested in trading citations. Maybe someone else here will take you up on that, if it's truly what you want.

How is your argument not "it'd work out well enough if we did it in a way that worked out well enough"?
My argument is that LLR policies undoubtedly benefit legal prostitutes and may help ameliorate some of the negative social effects of illegal prostitution. Any idiot can find literally hundreds of sources of support for this with no effort. You can do the legwork as easily as I, so again, slinging citations back and forth is a fool's errand. Since I am undoubtedly a fool, here's one example of the sort of thing I find convincing.

And it largely fails, because the legal prostitution industry is nonetheless partly supplied by sex trafficking and heavily intersects with organized crime, linking it with illegal prostitution.
Legal prostitution is less dependent on sex trafficking and organized crime than illegal prostitution. And helping to break those linkages would be one of the long-term goals of good LLR policies.

If you have any concrete conception of prostitution at all, you'll realize this is a pipe dream.
Unsupported. (For what it's worth, I've known quite a few prostitutes in my time...)
 
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Lmao, author is a simp XD

She belongs to the streets, and to the streets she should stay.

It has been and never will be a profession with any honor. If they wanted honor they should have just sold their voice, not their throat XD

edit: damn... all the simps... over a fictional character. Have some standards gentlemen... O wait that requires you to have standards for yourself

Lmao, author is a simp XD

She belongs to the streets, and to the streets she should stay.

It has been and never will be a profession with any honor. If they wanted honor they should have just sold their voice, not their throat XD

edit: damn... all the simps... over a fictional character. Have some standards gentlemen... O wait that requires you to have standards for yourself too... nvm.
Yeah I've never understood people who defend that "work" it's not something respectable no matter how much people wanna try to say otherwise.
 
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You tell 'em streamer! We should support all working people regardless of their profession. Whether they be prostitutes, pimps, whalers, scam artists, drug dealers, child traffickers, it doesn't matter! They are all working people and should be proud of it!
Lol
 
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Dude some of his followers killed for him. She looks more tame to me if you ask me imo.
To be fair he also ended a god-knows-how-long war simply by talking because he wanted demons and humans to get along. So it's not all bad.
 
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"you should be proud of being prostitute" xDDDD These simpletons in the comments are hilarious thinking it's a proper job lmao , maybe for yall porn addicted sickos it is because you can't ever stop being so retarded lol
lol u just negged 5 of my posts across 3 threads in 1 minute :pacman:

(someone's feelings are a little delicate today)
 
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ok... my point still stands but since you need it explicitly stated for you to understand--
No, I understand that you don't understand what he was responding to, because at no point did he mock any statement about the human dignity of prostitutes.

It'll be a problem for you and me both if you can't distinguish between topics like "human dignity" and "the societal value of prostitution".

I hope this helps clear up your pedant rage but in future, when someone just makes a one or two sentence rebuttal that has a slight hyperbole--
Neither "hyperbole" nor "paraphrasing" involves making stuff up to put in someone else's mouth.

Agreed. Nonetheless, everyone who works sells themselves -- albeit in different ways.
The differences between how a prostitute sells themselves and how a non-prostitute "sells" themselves are so severe that I could make the case that you're torturing language again.

I'm not interested in trading citations.
Then don't repeatedly mumble about "citation quality" without even talking about what you're looking for, and-- at best-- intimating that you'd only accept pro-prostitution studies.

My argument is that LLR policies benefit legal prostitutes and ameliorate the negative effects of illegal prostitution. Any idiot can find literally hundreds of sources of support for this with no effort.
It takes an idiot to find support sources? That might explain why I first came across explanations of major issues in these regulated prostitution industries, along with critical anecdotes from veteran prostitutes that still limit their argument to criticizing the legalization instead of saying prostitution should be cracked down on.

I suppose I can find articles that make rapid fire abstract assertions without citing personal experience or study. And I can also find studies that only survey a certain kind of country ("high income") and a certain kind of prostitute (the legal variety) that admit that even the dataset they winnowed themselves down to is more than scuffed (even when considering the difficulty in examining this particular population)-- all while not myself bothering to corroborate the findings with the ground-level realities while pondering the implications of those.

Legal prostitution is less dependent on sex trafficking and organized crime than illegal prostitution.

This is tautologically true, and a redundant observation. The issue of substance is that the legal industry is inextricably intertwined with the illegal industry on account of its very subject matter and the typical disposition of the people that inhabit it-- whether we're talking about those who weren't coerced into it, or those who were.

This is why I called your hope of sex work being normalized a pipe dream-- it's not able to be normalized. That normalization never manifested in societies where prostitution was condoned, and even in the most tolerant context it's not put on the same level as being a starving artist-- talk less something normally associated with "respectable". It's out-of-touch to suppose that a person who would rent their body out to the highest buyer wouldn't be looked at sideways, even if the observer affirmed the ontological equality of man.

(For what it's worth, I've known quite a few prostitutes in my time...)
...am I not supposed to take this as an admission of pursuing the services of prostitutes?

You tell 'em streamer! We should support all working people regardless of their profession. Whether they be prostitutes, pimps, whalers, scam artists, drug dealers, child traffickers, it doesn't matter! They are all working people and should be proud of it!
Don't forget about the assassin-- we had one of those last chapter. I'm sure she's feeling validated.

(I can't help but insist to myself that there's supposed to be an irony in this statement to be acted out at a later point.)
 
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Then don't repeatedly mumble about "citation quality" without even talking about what you're looking for, and-- at best-- intimating that you'd only accept pro-prostitution studies.
I reserve the right to mumble in response to unconvincing sources. So far, you've provided a hodgepodge of primarily journalistic articles, most of which are only tangentially related to my arguments. Which is fine. You're not under any obligation to refute or even engage with what I'm saying.

It takes an idiot to find support sources?
My point was that any idiot (and, obviously, any genius) can easily Google up hundreds of support sources for either of our positions with almost no effort.

I suppose I can find articles that make rapid fire abstract assertions without citing personal experience or study. And I can also find studies that only survey a certain kind of country ("high income") and a certain kind of prostitute (the legal variety) that admit that even the dataset they winnowed themselves down to is more than scuffed (even when considering the difficulty in examining this particular population)-- all while not myself bothering to corroborate the findings with the ground-level realities while pondering the implications of those.
If you wish to cite some big, well-constructed, peer-reviewed quantitative studies in support of the idea that LLR policies don't in any meaningful way aid legal prostitutes, then please do. I haven't seen any such thing from you.

To be fair, you have posted some interesting material. I especially liked the quietly fire-breathing Doriam Pels piece and the charming Guardian article about the two oldest prostitutes in Amsterdam.

The issue of substance is that the legal industry is inextricably intertwined with the illegal industry on account of its very subject matter and the typical disposition of the people that inhabit it-- whether we're talking about those who weren't coerced into it, or those who were.
I don't see how that's relevant. If legal prostitution is less contributive to organized crime and less dependent on human trafficking than illegal prostitution, then modest and sensible LLR policies would seem preferable to blanket criminalization -- at least in those specific ways. The imperfect is not the enemy of the good.

This is why I called your hope of sex work being normalized a pipe dream-- it's not able to be normalized. That normalization never manifested in societies where prostitution was condoned, and even in the most tolerant context it's not put on the same level as being a starving artist-- talk less something normally associated with "respectable". It's out-of-touch to suppose that a person who would rent their body out to the highest buyer wouldn't be looked at sideways, even if the observer affirmed the ontological equality of man.
Normalization isn't an either/or dichotomy. It takes place by degrees. Sex work is more normalized in some countries (e.g. Japan) than others (e.g. Afghanistan).

...am I not supposed to take this as an admission of pursuing the services of prostitutes?
I've never hired sex workers, but I was friends with a few "working girls" during my gloriously misspent youth, and during my 30s, I dated a woman who had turned tricks in her younger days. She was brilliant and beautiful and it didn't work out for various reasons, none of which had anything to do with that aspect of her past. I've also worked with sex workers in a professional capacity (assisting social workers).
 
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