Kasane to Subaru - Vol. 5 Ch. 41

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LMFAO Isn't the point of this manga to justify crossdressing? Just like those books, they try to justify the author's beliefs.

Das Kapital made some good points. Could be why Mangione took the last resort or whatever...

It is when done in that context. Autogynephilia is a thing. Call me a truscum or whatever, but Buck Angel and JK Rowling was right!

Let's not discount mental health.

I'm fine with men wearing whatever for a comedy skit. Matsuko Deluxe is a prime example of a person that I'm cool with. Maybe, they can try emulating him.

I agree with you on your last point.

You're cool because you somehow manage to read my comments, even if only partially.

I'm fine with the crossdressing. I mean do whatever just consider the time, place and occasion. If you're in a drag bar, then go all ham for all I care! If there's children though, then it just doesn't sit right with me.

Depending on one's body type, I would honestly think some people reconsider what they're wearing, but since it's the beach, I can give them a pass. People would just avoid you like the plague though if you're wearing something provocative.
Yeah bro’s like 13, confirmed
 
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You're right. I should've used legitimize.

Pardon me for making a strawman like what this chapter did, but imagine this: an obese unshaven man in his late 40s wearing a thong, a microskirt and a crop top as a statement of rebellion to the status quo.

Would you respect their right to express themselves publicly? I find that hard to believe. We need to limit our personal expression in consideration of others. Yes, you could respect that, but should you?

How far should we take our tolerance? Give someone an inch and they'll take a mile.

As for me, I'm fine with it. I'm already numb to degenerate shit, but not numb enough to expose young folks to this.
The clothes you suggested would be indecent for anyone to wear in public, so you're still not making a salient point.
 
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I don't know, but there's a difference with consuming content in FANZA as a private hobby compared to crossdressing as a public hobby for people to see, which seems like a fetish to me.

This whole chapter the mangaka just built a strawman to justify crossdressing as a public hobby.

Comparing drinking alcohol to crossdressing is just weak to me as well. I'm fine with that hobby as long as you keep it to yourselves like porn consumption. I don't need to know what you're into.
I get what you're saying, but I wouldn't call Jou a "strawman to justify crossdressing," since I don't think that was the point of their interaction narratively. This chapter was to develop the relationship between Subaru and Jou, and show that in spite of not agreeing or even getting along, they're still ultimately family and will still end up caring for each other, and that Subaru's family situation thus isn't as hopeless as we once thought. It's also to show how far Subaru has grown while dating Kasane, in that he's actually standing up for himself, in large part because she got brought into the conversation.
After all, it's not as if Jou comes to realize he's "wrong" about crossdressing in public; he comes to realize Subaru has had is own share of hardships, and to go easier him.

tl;dr, it's character-driven rather than political.
 
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I don't think it is that unbelievable. It is possible to have diverging opinions and not burn bridges. We don't need to be so polarized by our opinions to the point of going to war over them. Certainly, some will burn bridges over political, religious or other views, but others will be willing to compromise and let some things slide in order to coexist and, honestly, the latter is a better attitude.

Sure, the brother is quite conservative, has a certain view on what it means to be manly and thinks that crossdressing is disgusting but he's also always known that Subaru wasn't all that manly and he does have a view that family should support and be honest with each other. It makes sense for him to, after having talked about it at length and realising he's not going to change Subaru's mind, just let it slide. I mean, Subaru isn't doing anything illegal, he's just dressing funny according to convention and conventions are arbitrary.

I'm curious to see how Subaru's own wedding would go, as I would expect that he would also want to be in a wedding dress.


While some can have a fetish for crossdressing and experience sexual arousal, others do it for other reasons. Subaru doesn't have a fetish; he's not getting sexually aroused in public.


Well, if you're a man and not a muslim, you may want to convert to Islam and move to a muslim country. That way you can cover up your wife in a hijab and other men's wives will be covered in hijabs so you won't need to know what they're into and they won't know what you're into.

I don't need to know what you think about this chapter, but what world would we live in if that's how we thought and couldn't express ourselves in public?

I don't really know why you believe that crossdressing has to be a fetish, nor why you believe that someone wearing clothes and not doing anything immoral can't go out in public. What about tattoos, piercings and other dressing styles that are outside of the norm? I personally find tattoos to be ridiculous; you make your body into a billboard and you display, in an essentially permanent manner, your dubious tastes. But I don't care if others do it and it's the same with crossdressing - what is it to you?

Obviously, drinking alcohol and crossdressing aren't the same. Alcohol is a poison that your body can break down (and don't tell me it's fine in small quantities, try that with a pregnant woman and see how that works out) and impairs your judgment, so it's way worse. (Don't get me wrong, it's helpful to be able to consume alcohol since you can consume fruits that have rot a bit, and adding alcohol to drinks can make it safer which was pretty necessary throughout our history, but we don't need it nowadays.)

How about smoking? That's something acceptable that people do in public that should be banned. Smoking is horrible for your health, and you can't keep it to yourself so when you're doing that in public, you're a health hazard for others.

You're free to think crossdressing is a fetish which shouldn't be done in public but I think you're silly.
I agree with your general point and your stance on harmful substances like tobacco and alcohol being treated as hobbies, but maybe try leaving religion out of this when it wasn't part of the subject.
 
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Having this kind of conversation with someone like this and it NOT ending with a completely burnt bridge? I know this is fiction, but there's only so much my disbelief can be suspended.
Maybe it's because I argued for other people but it's possible to have that kind of conversation with a conservative sibling civilly. And not in the "a wound to be avoided" sense.
 
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Just so we're clear. An obese unshaven man in his late 40s wearing a thong, a microskirt and a crop top as a statement of rebellion to the status quo.

This is normal to you, huh?
It's already normal to see obese unshaven men in their late 40s in only shorts on hot days. If you're near a body of water they may also wear quite form-fitting trunks.
These are circumstances when it's understandable for them to reveal their body and it doesn't read as them trying to be sexually appealing and especially as them preying on children.
You lump the concept of feminine clothes with being used for sex. Those are not the same.
 
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Having this kind of conversation with someone like this and it NOT ending with a completely burnt bridge? I know this is fiction, but there's only so much my disbelief can be suspended.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy for the MC, but as someone who's bared witness to this kind of scenario a few times, this is some serious wish fulfillment, possibly more than any isekai could ever be. It is a nice wish, though, isn't it?

Edit: To be clear, I'm not saying this is a bad thing. This was a great chapter from a great series. I'm just saying...y'know?
No offense, but this comes off as you having very limited life experience. This sort of thing happens all the time; I know firsthand.
 
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You asked, so I answered. Now, you gonna cry about it LMFAO

If you can't take it, you do know you don't have to engage with me, but you asked for it. :facepalm:
Look, DesertStorm. It's strange of you to be so uncomfortable and argumentative about this, in the comments of the final chapters of a crossdressing manga. How did you end up here? You must know that being an angry contrarian means you won't have any constructive discussion about this. You are the odd one out. Talking about protecting and corrupting youth's minds, the author's agenda and insulting people makes you a bizarre weirdo. No normal, well adjusted person would be so distressed. I don't know if you can get the kind of attention you want in this thread, these moves are somewhat predictable. Have some creativity and open mindedness.

I must remind you that you can read the story from the beginning for these questions, or read a different story, to a space where you're comfortable at any time you want. There is nothing to be suspicious over. I understand that being a hassle and arguing things over the internet is fun, but this is a waste of everyone's time, and you won't get any mutual respect or understanding this way, so you just seem lost. It's pointless to seek random people's argument, and questioning the author who is writing from the perspective of a different country. I do hope you'll use your time better, or have better things to do in your life nearing the New Year. Festive blessings, and what not, find more stuff to appreciate.
 
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Pardon me for making a strawman like what this chapter did, but imagine this: an obese unshaven man in his late 40s wearing a thong, a microskirt and a crop top as a statement of rebellion to the status quo.

Would you respect their right to express themselves publicly? I find that hard to believe. We need to limit our personal expression in consideration of others. Yes, you could respect that, but should you?

How far should we take our tolerance? Give someone an inch and they'll take a mile.

As for me, I'm fine with it. I'm already numb to degenerate shit, but not numb enough to expose young folks to this.
To keep it simple (since clearly you didn't care to respond to everything else I said): if a woman can wear it, why can't a man (and vice versa)? The purpose of clothes is to cover up your naughty bits, protect from the weather and be stylish. A man wearing woman's clothes still achieves all that. Technically, being naked but wrapped in a blanket also achieves all that but since you'd need to use your hands to keep the blanket wrapped around you it's a bit inconvenient so I wouldn't recommend it - there's a reason we have some standard with clothes that they should stay on you without you needing to actively hold them. I will note that the last time I saw a crossdresser in public, it was late evening and they had a dress that covered the knees, so nothing eye-burning.

If it's appropriate for a woman to wear a thong, a microskirt and a crop top, I don't see why it should be inappropriate for a man. I'm not sure why you think adding descriptive of being obese, unshaven and in the late 40s should change that. Kilts are traditional in Scotland, and if you want to do it right, you don't wear anything underneath so exposure can happen and it's just not a big deal.

In general, I don't think a thong, microskirt and crop top are particularly appropriate but I understand that some circumstances call for it (e.g. for a party where you're intending to find a partner to get laid). As you state yourself, it's a strawman because you're talking about dressing inappropriately not making a case on why women's wear is inappropriate for a man.

Some people always abuse the systems in place (though I'm mostly thinking of super rich tax evasion here and generally bribing their way through the justice system and lobbying the governments for laws that benefit them) and so we have to compromise. Obviously, a blank check on tolerance doesn't work; should intolerance be tolerated? But we're being generic here.

Modesty is a learned behaviour so young children wouldn't care much about what you've described (I mean, younger children would much rather run around naked). In any case, children would pick up that this is not a normal way to dress for a man because they can observe it, they see how their parents and everyone else dresses (unless they're in an environment where everyone dresses like that). You haven't expressed what the problem is here on why children shouldn't be exposed to this. (And please, don't come up with the strawman that your obese unshaven man in his late 40s in a thong, microskirt and crop top is teaching like that, because you're still not explaining why children shouldn't be exposed to this. Stating that it's degenerate and that's why it shouldn't be done is a tautology.)

As an alcoholic, I can say with certainty that this silly and tedious.
In moderation alcohol isn’t harmful.
I think you should have to check your keys at the door of a bar, though. Something like that. Honour system at least.
Here are my first two results from a duckduckgo search and you may want to read them:
https://health.clevelandclinic.org/effects-of-alcohol
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/13/well/mind/alcohol-health-effects.html

There are plenty of things that are harmful that we still enjoy consuming because the harmful effects are small so I understand, but it's incorrect to say that it isn't harmful. Note also that alcohol isn't taken by itself, it is usually in a mixture and some of the other elements might have some benefits to them (but since you can usually get those other elements elsewhere, there's really no redeeming quality to the habit as far as I'm concerned; though as I said, in the past the bacterial killing properties were more useful than the harmful bits, heck, Mongols still give mildly alcoholic fermented milk to infants).

It is banned in most public spaces aside from outdoors in the USA, and banned outside in most areas of japan. Only a few designated areas, or private businesses specifically designated to allow it (I think this makes more sense than how it works here. Easier to avoid a place of business than just… all of outside.
I’m a smoker, but I never EVER do it around children, the pregnant or, frankly, anyone, unless there’s a reliably directional wind and I can go far away and things blow away.
You have to be 18 years old to purchase tobacco or cigarettes here and you are allowed to smoke in the streets or terraces but not in public buildings or at work, but when 20% of the adult population smokes (and looking it up, Nauru is pretty crazy and Myanmar has a really weird skew towards adult males smoking) and you live in a city with 7500 people per square kilometers you can't really go out in the streets without catching whiffs of smoke. Oh and while cigarette butts should not be thrown on the streets but into waste bins, I'm sure you can guess where they all actually end up. I'd love to see some laws drafted to state that anyone born after 2006 remains incapable of buying cigarettes for the duration of their lives so that we can ensure that no one picks up the habit once they're of age and that the habit gradually dies out, but I'm sure the tobacco industry will fight tooth and nail to protect their profit. The whole banned outside in most areas of Japan seems great.

It's great to hear you don't smoke around other people, but I can't imagine that being easy in any crowded city. It undoubtedly would be great to have designated spaces (preferably indoors) for smoking. (You'd need some good ventilation to ensure it doesn't turn into a gas chamber... Though, smoke also sticks to clothes so you'd still have the smell after coming out. Maybe have smoke dispensing machines in the streets where you can get their smoke nicotine fix through a mask and the dispensing machine ensures no smoke leaves it? I wouldn't have any issues with that, but it's understandably a lot more inconvenient for a smoker and potentially a health hazard with the whole mask sharing so it'd probably be best for people to have their mask to attach to a hose on the smoke dispenser. It needs to be portable. Just imagine, you go to work, put your mask and trunk device on and enjoy smoking all day without inconveniencing anyone else. It'd probably be quite the engineering problem to filter the air and wouldn't be very cheap, but I'm okay with people poisoning themselves as long as it's limited to themselves. So make the device, justify banning cigarettes and instead using this device, make lots of money? What would the ad campaigns look like? A sexy woman in a skimpy dress goes to a party and puts on a backpack with a trunk coming out of it and a facehugging mask (that's the device), then a handsome man notices her and thinks "So sexy and mindful, how do I kiss her?". So she presses a button to activate the mask removal smoke cleanup phase and there's a loud whirring noise for a minute while they look at each other seductively (taking notes from the Rock's smouldering stare) and then whabam, the mask can be taken off, there's no smoke and they kiss (maybe take a mint before?). Anyways, electric cars are nice.)

I agree with your general point and your stance on harmful substances like tobacco and alcohol being treated as hobbies, but maybe try leaving religion out of this when it wasn't part of the subject.
The subject he brought up was that he didn't want to see other people's preferences in public. I gave him advice (if he's a man) on where he could go to avoid seeing what other men were into and to hide his own preferences from other men. I used religion because it was useful to the point I was making so I don't understand why I shouldn't have brought it up. I like rambling and going on tangents too.

I don't believe I've said anything that would offend either and I'm under the impression that a muslim would be very proud of the statement that they do not condone in any degenerate behaviour like displaying their trophy wife, sexual preferences, in public. I might be wrong, so if I've made a factually incorrect statement, feel free to correct it.
 
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To keep it simple (since clearly you didn't care to respond to everything else I said): if a woman can wear it, why can't a man (and vice versa)? The purpose of clothes is to cover up your naughty bits, protect from the weather and be stylish. A man wearing woman's clothes still achieves all that. Technically, being naked but wrapped in a blanket also achieves all that but since you'd need to use your hands to keep the blanket wrapped around you it's a bit inconvenient so I wouldn't recommend it - there's a reason we have some standard with clothes that they should stay on you without you needing to actively hold them. I will note that the last time I saw a crossdresser in public, it was late evening and they had a dress that covered the knees, so nothing eye-burning.

If it's appropriate for a woman to wear a thong, a microskirt and a crop top, I don't see why it should be inappropriate for a man. I'm not sure why you think adding descriptive of being obese, unshaven and in the late 40s should change that. Kilts are traditional in Scotland, and if you want to do it right, you don't wear anything underneath so exposure can happen and it's just not a big deal.

In general, I don't think a thong, microskirt and crop top are particularly appropriate but I understand that some circumstances call for it (e.g. for a party where you're intending to find a partner to get laid). As you state yourself, it's a strawman because you're talking about dressing inappropriately not making a case on why women's wear is inappropriate for a man.

Some people always abuse the systems in place (though I'm mostly thinking of super rich tax evasion here and generally bribing their way through the justice system and lobbying the governments for laws that benefit them) and so we have to compromise. Obviously, a blank check on tolerance doesn't work; should intolerance be tolerated? But we're being generic here.

Modesty is a learned behaviour so young children wouldn't care much about what you've described (I mean, younger children would much rather run around naked). In any case, children would pick up that this is not a normal way to dress for a man because they can observe it, they see how their parents and everyone else dresses (unless they're in an environment where everyone dresses like that). You haven't expressed what the problem is here on why children shouldn't be exposed to this. (And please, don't come up with the strawman that your obese unshaven man in his late 40s in a thong, microskirt and crop top is teaching like that, because you're still not explaining why children shouldn't be exposed to this. Stating that it's degenerate and that's why it shouldn't be done is a tautology.)


Here are my first two results from a duckduckgo search and you may want to read them:
https://health.clevelandclinic.org/effects-of-alcohol
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/13/well/mind/alcohol-health-effects.html

There are plenty of things that are harmful that we still enjoy consuming because the harmful effects are small so I understand, but it's incorrect to say that it isn't harmful. Note also that alcohol isn't taken by itself, it is usually in a mixture and some of the other elements might have some benefits to them (but since you can usually get those other elements elsewhere, there's really no redeeming quality to the habit as far as I'm concerned; though as I said, in the past the bacterial killing properties were more useful than the harmful bits, heck, Mongols still give mildly alcoholic fermented milk to infants).


You have to be 18 years old to purchase tobacco or cigarettes here and you are allowed to smoke in the streets or terraces but not in public buildings or at work, but when 20% of the adult population smokes (and looking it up, Nauru is pretty crazy and Myanmar has a really weird skew towards adult males smoking) and you live in a city with 7500 people per square kilometers you can't really go out in the streets without catching whiffs of smoke. Oh and while cigarette butts should not be thrown on the streets but into waste bins, I'm sure you can guess where they all actually end up. I'd love to see some laws drafted to state that anyone born after 2006 remains incapable of buying cigarettes for the duration of their lives so that we can ensure that no one picks up the habit once they're of age and that the habit gradually dies out, but I'm sure the tobacco industry will fight tooth and nail to protect their profit. The whole banned outside in most areas of Japan seems great.

It's great to hear you don't smoke around other people, but I can't imagine that being easy in any crowded city. It undoubtedly would be great to have designated spaces (preferably indoors) for smoking. (You'd need some good ventilation to ensure it doesn't turn into a gas chamber... Though, smoke also sticks to clothes so you'd still have the smell after coming out. Maybe have smoke dispensing machines in the streets where you can get their smoke nicotine fix through a mask and the dispensing machine ensures no smoke leaves it? I wouldn't have any issues with that, but it's understandably a lot more inconvenient for a smoker and potentially a health hazard with the whole mask sharing so it'd probably be best for people to have their mask to attach to a hose on the smoke dispenser. It needs to be portable. Just imagine, you go to work, put your mask and trunk device on and enjoy smoking all day without inconveniencing anyone else. It'd probably be quite the engineering problem to filter the air and wouldn't be very cheap, but I'm okay with people poisoning themselves as long as it's limited to themselves. So make the device, justify banning cigarettes and instead using this device, make lots of money? What would the ad campaigns look like? A sexy woman in a skimpy dress goes to a party and puts on a backpack with a trunk coming out of it and a facehugging mask (that's the device), then a handsome man notices her and thinks "So sexy and mindful, how do I kiss her?". So she presses a button to activate the mask removal smoke cleanup phase and there's a loud whirring noise for a minute while they look at each other seductively (taking notes from the Rock's smouldering stare) and then whabam, the mask can be taken off, there's no smoke and they kiss (maybe take a mint before?). Anyways, electric cars are nice.)


The subject he brought up was that he didn't want to see other people's preferences in public. I gave him advice (if he's a man) on where he could go to avoid seeing what other men were into and to hide his own preferences from other men. I used religion because it was useful to the point I was making so I don't understand why I shouldn't have brought it up. I like rambling and going on tangents too.

I don't believe I've said anything that would offend either and I'm under the impression that a muslim would be very proud of the statement that they do not condone in any degenerate behaviour like displaying their trophy wife, sexual preferences, in public. I might be wrong, so if I've made a factually incorrect statement, feel free to correct it.
Thanks for being explaining this for so much detail, but I don't think your intended recipient would like to read or think this much about it. I appreciate it, even if it is a bit tangential. I just hope people can learn to keep out of other's business.
 
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Here are my first two results from a duckduckgo search and you may want to read them:
Ok, a clinic in Ohio and a newspaper? Peer reviewed study, please.
Your whole attitude screams “no one should be allowed to do things I think are bad.”
and, no, you didn’t need to bring religion in. Especially one not your own.
It’s immediately inflammatory.

“Display their trophy wife” is offensive period.

”In general, I don't think a thong, microskirt and crop top are particularly appropriate but I understand that some circumstances call for it (e.g. for a party where you're intending to find a partner to get laid)“

…I’m just gonna leave that there.

You come off as completely insufferable
 
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"Do you know the word chaser?" after the girlfriend reveal certainly was a choice.
Pffffffft!!!


also, I don’t understand the idea of water as a “chaser”. It adds nothing to the experience, only detracts.

His brother doesn’t like whisky. He likes the idea of liking whiskey.
 
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I don't know, but there's a difference with consuming content in FANZA as a private hobby compared to crossdressing as a public hobby for people to see, which seems like a fetish to me.

This whole chapter the mangaka just built a strawman to justify crossdressing as a public hobby.

Comparing drinking alcohol to crossdressing is just weak to me as well. I'm fine with that hobby as long as you keep it to yourselves like porn consumption. I don't need to know what you're into.
It'd be way healthier for society if public crossdressing was widely accepted but public intoxication wasn't

(I'm not arguing for alcohol to be banned, that's a completely new sentence)
 
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No offense, but this comes off as you having very limited life experience. This sort of thing happens all the time; I know firsthand.
Oh, I know it happens it there, but I'm stuck in a very conservative area with very close minded and stubborn people, so I don't get to often see conversations with family end amicably. Happy for those that do get this, but at least half a dozen times of comforting those who have much less positive outcomes starts to wane on you, y'know?

No offense taken. In hindsight, the initial surprise at the outcome might have led me to overreact and exaggerate just how unfeasible this outcome is, so it's understandable that it came across as naive for others' perspectives. Anyone who gets to help someone like this (or is someone like this) and see this sort of outcome, I'm happy for all of you (with a hint of envy, not gonna lie).
 
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I get what you're saying, but I wouldn't call Jou a "strawman to justify crossdressing," since I don't think that was the point of their interaction narratively. This chapter was to develop the relationship between Subaru and Jou, and show that in spite of not agreeing or even getting along, they're still ultimately family and will still end up caring for each other, and that Subaru's family situation thus isn't as hopeless as we once thought. It's also to show how far Subaru has grown while dating Kasane, in that he's actually standing up for himself, in large part because she got brought into the conversation.
After all, it's not as if Jou comes to realize he's "wrong" about crossdressing in public; he comes to realize Subaru has had is own share of hardships, and to go easier him.

tl;dr, it's character-driven rather than political.
It's the framing of how the brothers handled it that doesn't sit right with me. Tolerating the crossdressing issue is the author's implicit response to normalize public crossdressing to the reader.

@Kireato Brother, you're already so close! You already answered your questions, so I'll answer your question with some choice replies.
Question:
To keep it simple (since clearly you didn't care to respond to everything else I said): if a woman can wear it, why can't a man (and vice versa)?
Response:
In general, I don't think a thong, microskirt and crop top are particularly appropriate but I understand that some circumstances call for it (e.g. for a party where you're intending to find a partner to get laid).
Obviously, a blank check on tolerance doesn't work; should intolerance be tolerated?
Modesty is a learned behaviour so young children wouldn't care much about what you've described (I mean, younger children would much rather run around naked). In any case, children would pick up that this is not a normal way to dress for a man because they can observe it, they see how their parents and everyone else dresses (unless they're in an environment where everyone dresses like that).
I hope this leads you to the right direction.
It'd be way healthier for society if public crossdressing was widely accepted but public intoxication wasn't

(I'm not arguing for alcohol to be banned, that's a completely new sentence)
I'm not arguing for public intoxication, that's a completely new sentence.
 
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It's the framing of how the brothers handled it that doesn't sit right with me. Tolerating the crossdressing issue is the author's implicit response to normalize public crossdressing to the reader.

@Kireato Brother, you're already so close! You already answered your questions, so I'll answer your question with some choice replies.
Question:

Response:



I hope this leads you to the right direction.

I'm not arguing for public intoxication, that's a completely new sentence.
I just have point out, DesertStorm, that you say that you're right all that you want, but you're the only one here with an issue to this crossdressing thing, and the only one who is saying the author trying to normalizing this 'nefarious' thing, and you're seeing imaginary answers to your question in the other person's replies. It really seems like an insane, and delusional thing to do, if you're not going to listen to anyone. It doesn't seem like you've read the story very well.

Get your kicks and all, and deal with your discomfort, but you're not accomplishing anything except get concern from others. It's just kinda sad to see. You can ask these questions on any internet forum that actually wants to deal with these concerns, and opposing views. Here are some examples from reddit, though they're may not be right for you:

https://www.reddit.com/r/asktransge..._the_difference_between_a_crossdresser_and_a/
 
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