Kuse Tsuyo Kanojo wa Toko ni Izanau - Vol. 4 Ch. 20.6

[OldVice]

I don't want to discuss what NTR is or isn't (I don't even like the genre), but if NTR means stealing a loved one away, just having sex with someone else doesn't mean that person was "stolen." I mean, it kinda sucks if Luna did the hanky-panky with a rando, but when she gets home she looks like anything but "stolen" from Naoto. On the contrary, she seems even more conscious of her feelings for him.

Now, unless the manga gets cancelled and the mangaka decides to throw a big F-U at the haters, I think it'll be revealed that Luna chickened out and left the hotel before anything happened. I haven't scoured the manga for every tiny detail, but I don't think she could face Naoto at all if something had actually happened. I think her initial relief at him not being there stems from the fact that she couldn't go through with it precisely because she loves him.

Besides, she says she's going to take a bath and then go to bed. She doesn't look disheveled at all, and if she'd had sex and then left without showering, you'd expect at least some sign of it. Again, it's manga and anything can happen, but so far everything points to her not having done anything.

I'm a pretty big hater of all things NTR in published manga, especially rom-com, when the series doesn't have any of the tags that would lead you to expect those kinds of events. With this one not even having anything like a drama tag or...... I think it's doro-doro(?) seeing those themes pop is pretty frustrating because it feels like you were heavily mislead on the direction of the story as a reader.

With this series and Sugas track record of dealing with strange kinks and fetishes, I'm really trying to give him the benefit of the doubt that he's doing nothing but toying with the readers emotions and baiting everyone for reader engagement and that's how the story was planned out and everything that's being dreaded is just bait.

As for getting cancelled, the last time I looked this series was still doing pretty well for readership and the biggest complaint was the pacing. So unless something drastic happens that flips the readers on him, I'm pretty sure it's safe.

Even if it did get cancelled, I don't really get the feeling that Suga is spiteful enough to go scorched earth and ruin a series he's been working on. I'm not sure if it was cancelled or not, but I do think he had to wrap up some series quickly before and just finished it the best way he could while still being satisfied with the ending.

 

[shinya78]

If someone wants to go sabotage one of our machines so I can get sent out, that would be cool too. I just can't say what I need someone to sabotage as that would just straight up be doxxing myself (Not that you're going to see them during the day anyway). I will say that they can be found in some major underground malls and stations though...... and a place with a really weird name.

So basically, it's a machine that requires a specialist from outside the country to fix, either because of the lack of local specialists in the area, or by contract. That's quite the clue you've given any would-be saboteurs, right there.

 

[OldVice]

So basically, it's a machine that requires a specialist from outside the country to fix, either because of the lack of local specialists in the area, or by contract. That's quite the clue you've given any would-be saboteurs, right there.

Yeah, that's pretty much it, more or less. I think we used to have some technicians in parts of Asia, but Japan and Korea take waaaaaaaaay better care of these things than, let's say, America, that we barely ever had to send them out to do repairs.

 

[Wyrm666]

With this series and Sugas track record of dealing with strange kinks and fetishes, I'm really trying to give him the benefit of the doubt that he's doing nothing but toying with the readers emotions and baiting everyone for reader engagement and that's how the story was planned out and everything that's being dreaded is just bait.

Cheating and Infidelity have been a source of easy drama since forever, but nowadays it's seemingly everywhere. And with the number of series that have been tanked due to the introduction of NTR themes, I cannot fathom why many mangakas keep doing it.

While I don't think that it will be the case here, once bitten, twice shy...

 

[shinya78]

I'm a pretty big hater of all things NTR in published manga, especially rom-com, when the series doesn't have any of the tags that would lead you to expect those kinds of events. With this one not even having anything like a drama tag or...... I think it's doro-doro(?) seeing those themes pop is pretty frustrating because it feels like you were heavily mislead on the direction of the story as a reader.

Speaking of tags, I remember having this back-and-forth with another user about the tag 尽くす系女子(Devoted Girl). These girls, Tsukusu-kei Joshi, are the types that will do everything and couldn't help but take care of their guy no matter what.

In reality it's actually more like "Doting Girl", instead of "Devoted Girl". Due to how it got translated, people thought the devotion here meant loyalty.

 

[shinya78]

Yeah, that's pretty much it, more or less. I think we used to have some technicians in parts of Asia, but Japan and Korea take waaaaaaaaay better care of these things than, let's say, America, that we barely ever had to send them out to do repairs.

America you say?

SURELY IT'S NOT A MCDONALD'S ICE CREAM MACHINE!

 

[Magno94]

I don't want to discuss what NTR is or isn't (I don't even like the genre), but if NTR means stealing a loved one away, just having sex with someone else doesn't mean that person was "stolen." I mean, it kinda sucks if Luna did the hanky-panky with a rando, but when she gets home she looks like anything but "stolen" from Naoto. On the contrary, she seems even more conscious of her feelings for him.

Now, unless the manga gets cancelled and the mangaka decides to throw a big F-U at the haters, I think it'll be revealed that Luna chickened out and left the hotel before anything happened. I haven't scoured the manga for every tiny detail, but I don't think she could face Naoto at all if something had actually happened. I think her initial relief at him not being there stems from the fact that she couldn't go through with it precisely because she loves him.

Besides, she says she's going to take a bath and then go to bed. She doesn't look disheveled at all, and if she'd had sex and then left without showering, you'd expect at least some sign of it. Again, it's manga and anything can happen, but so far everything points to her not having done anything.

I see your point, but you're kind of cheating a bit there. It’s true they aren't officially a couple, but both know they have feelings for each other; you can even see Nao feeling "betrayed" when he sees Luna meeting up with someone else at a hotel. I mean, it makes no sense for Luna to lead Nao to believe she has feelings for him—and vice versa—only to go and sleep with someone else.

I also think the industry itself has distorted the meaning of NTR. Consider the feeling Nao gets when he sees the app and spots Luna entering the hotel, imagining what’s going on inside. How could he not feel that way when the very girl who led him to believe she had feelings for him is then seen doing something like that?

However, what makes this highly controversial is that the work's official tags have nothing to do with this fact.

 

[OldVice]

Cheating and Infidelity have been a source of easy drama since forever, but nowadays it's seemingly everywhere. And with the number of series that have been tanked due to the introduction of NTR themes, I cannot fathom why many mangakas keep doing it.

While I don't think that it will be the case here, once bitten, twice shy...

I'm fine with things being a little spicy, but I'm really not ok with NTR themes being added to a story for whatever reason. I'm not sure if some of them actually think it's a good idea, or if someone pitches it to them as a good idea, but it seems to almost never end well for the series or it's author.

Hell, if I remember correctly, people were losing their minds over "NTR" showing up in Dandadan recently (the quotes are because it wasn't really NTR).

Although there are still some series I don't understand how they are still going that aren't really NTR but the drama should have worn out by now (looking at you Rent a Girlfriend).

Speaking of tags, I remember having this back-and-forth with another user about the tag 尽くす系女子(Devoted Girl). These girls, Tsukusu-kei Joshi, are the types that will do everything and couldn't help but take care of their guy no matter what.

In reality it's actually more like "Doting Girl", instead of "Devoted Girl". Due to how it got translated, people thought the devotion here meant loyalty.

My Japanese is really terrible, so I often lose the context behind a lot of translations. So it's really something closer to a loving girl / girl that spoils them / friendly Onee-san type than?

America you say?

SURELY IT'S NOT A MCDONALD'S ICE CREAM MACHINE!

Nah, these things actually work when you turn them on and do their job.

I can actually tell you where some of these things are if you're interested, you might actually know where a few of these places are.

 

[Magno94]

These girls, Tsukusu-kei Joshi, are the types that will do everything and couldn't help but take care of their guy no matter what.

Luna: "I'm going to have sex with someone else so I don't lose the guy I like."🤡

 

[shinya78]

My Japanese is really terrible, so I often lose the context behind a lot of translations. So it's really something closer to a loving girl / girl that spoils them / friendly Onee-san type than?

Yup. Even if their man is considered a "Dame Otoko" by everyone else, they WILL spoil their man.

Nah, these things actually work when you turn them on and do their job.

I can actually tell you where some of these things are if you're interested, you might actually know where a few of these places are.

Nah it's okay, I'm not even in the country currently. I wouldn't be able to "help you out" in that sense.

 

[shinya78]

Luna: "I'm going to have sex with someone else so I don't lose the guy I like."🤡

If my theory proves true, then it's more like "I'm going to get rid of my urges with someone else so I don't assault the guy I like and lose him once again."

But hey, who even bothers looking at the bigger picture and deeper lore details when all you need is surface level details to make a conclusion, am I right? /sarcasm

 

[OldVice]

Yup. Even if their man is considered a "Dame Otoko" by everyone else, they WILL spoil their man.

That clears things up a little more for the use of the tag.

Nah it's okay, I'm not even in the country currently. I wouldn't be able to "help you out" in that sense.

To be fair, I'm not even sure if anyone other than employees would be able to get to these things when they're not running.

 

[Magno94]

If my theory proves true, it's more like "I'm going to get rid of my urges with someone else so I don't assault the guy I like and lose him once again."

But hey, who even bothers looking at the bigger picture and deeper lore details when all you need is surface level details to make a conclusion, am I right? /sarcasm

It’s true, we all know the best way not to lose someone you share mutual feelings with is to go fuck other guys. In fact, now that you mention it, we saw Nao absolutely overjoyed when he found out.

You aren't considering the option of Luna telling him how she feels face-to-face instead of drawing her own conclusions, are you? Maybe that's too illogical...

 

[Wyrm666]

I see your point, but you're kind of cheating a bit there. It’s true they aren't officially a couple, but both know they have feelings for each other; you can even see Nao feeling "betrayed" when he sees Luna meeting up with someone else at a hotel. I mean, it makes no sense for Luna to lead Nao to believe she has feelings for him—and vice versa—only to go and sleep with someone else.

I'm not saying that it wouldn't suck major balls if Luna actually did it with some other dude. Especially because the "if I have sex with someone else I will get over the feels" is idiotic.

I'm not even saying that "it's fine because they are not officially together."

Just that it's not NTR in the sense that she will not be "stolen" by anyone. She likes Nao.

Besides, thinking for two seconds and remembering chapter 16.1 there is no way she did anything. In that chapter she knows that after Nao saw her kissing a guy he started avoiding her. And now that she wants to be in his life forever would she fuck another dude? Only if the mangaka forgot what he wrote before.

 

[shinya78]

That clears things up a little more for the use of the tag.

It’s true, we all know the best way not to lose someone you share mutual feelings with is to go fuck other guys.

You're running under the assumption that they absolutely share mutual feelings for one another.

I don't remember if I already mentioned it before, but Luna's "devotion" to Naoto didn't start out of her "affection for him", but instead it started out of her "fear of losing him". This is why mentioned that she does not see the MC in a romantic light just yet, but instead see him as an emotional crutch.

In Chapter 4.5, she cried in her sleep when Naoto ignored her for breaking their promise right after Naoto ran away after spotting Luna kissing some other guy.

If anything, she's heading towards the same mistake that she did at that time, but with bigger consequences. The only difference here now is that Naoto stopped running away.

 

[Magno94]

Besides, thinking for two seconds and remembering chapter 16.1 there is no way she did anything. In that chapter she knows that after Nao saw her kissing a guy he started avoiding her. And now that she wants to be in his life forever would she fuck another dude? Only if the mangaka forgot what he wrote before.

I think what you said perfectly sums up this whole nonsensical chapter. The theory that "Luna likes Nao but has sex with others to suppress that feeling" is simply absurd and laughable, with all due respect to anyone who defends it. Luna would rather cook up scenarios in her head than just tell Nao how she feels, even though she knows he has feelings for her too.

Imagine a girl coming up to you and saying, "I really like you, but since I don't want to lose you, I have sex with other people to suppress that feeling, but just so you know, I love you, okay?" You’d look like a total idiot, right? Well, that’s exactly what happened to Nao in today’s chapter.

 

[Magno94]

You're running under the assumption that they absolutely share mutual feelings for one another

Are you serious??? Luna constantly masturbates while thinking about him, and they’ve even kissed. Not to mention the scene in the park...

 

[OldVice]

You're running under the assumption that they absolutely share mutual feelings for one another.

To be fair, it does seem like Luna is struggling to understand that/if her feelings for Naoto are romantic in nature and not familial, as Naoto keeps looking at her as Luna, a woman, but she's seemingly afraid to look at Naoto as a man as it would change their relationship in a way that she thinks could drive him away.

I don't remember if I already mentioned it before, but Luna's "devotion" to Naoto didn't start out of her "affection for him", but instead it started out of her "fear of losing him". This is why mentioned that she does not see the MC in a romantic light just yet, but instead see him as an emotional crutch.

In Chapter 4.5, she cried in her sleep when Naoto ignored her for breaking their promise right after Naoto ran away after spotting Luna kissing some other guy.

If anything, she's heading towards the same mistake that she did at that time, but with bigger consequences. The only difference here now is that Naoto stopped running away.

I think it's likely that Luna was always devoted to him in her own normal loving way, but when she was caught kissing that guy by Naoto and he ignored her for days, she started to cling to him because she realized that she could lose him. There could also be some other things that were at play when they were younger (maybe she also had what could be considered an inappropriate love for him as a child).

I get the feeling the fear of losing someone she loves could be a fear she developed with her father not being in the picture when she was younger, as she likely loved her father and then he left (for unknown reasons as of right now) and when she thought she would "lose" Naoto, it triggered a bad reaction from her and probably turned unhealthy from there.

I guess we're going to see if this chapter brings story progress in a positive way, as we still have a lot of other parts of the story that haven't been addressed yet.

We still don't know what actually happened with the Police incident after Kawashina bit Naoto, or if it was even related to the bite.

We still don't know who the third girl in the photo is. Although we do know that each of them is a romantic interest for Naoto and if it does turn out to be Hiba, that's going to shake things up, as she would probably have no issue with swooping in and snatching away Naoto if the other two aren't proactive in trying to win him over.

The whole "slut" thing. Although I get the feeling that this might have something to do with Lunas mother as there's a stereotype of single mother = slut, daughter of single mother = slut / easy. I also get the feeling that her parents may have had a messy divorce and Luna hates her family name because it's her mothers and she had Lunas family name changed to hers on the register after the divorce.

There's also a handful of other small things that came up recently, like Luna not wanting to talk about what she did during high school. Maybe she didn't even attend? Maybe she was relentlessly bullied? Maybe she was treated like a slut and was ostracized? Was she separated from Hiba during that time? What was she trying to tell Naoto at Karaoke?

 

[Wyrm666]

To be fair, it does seem like Luna is struggling to understand that/if her feelings for Naoto are romantic in nature and not familial, as Naoto keeps looking at her as Luna, a woman, but she's seemingly afraid to look at Naoto as a man as it would change their relationship in a way that she thinks could drive him away.

We see her become a horndog several times with Naoto, so I think she knows perfectly well that she doesn't like him like a little brother...

 

[shinya78]

Are you serious??? Luna constantly masturbates while thinking about him, and they’ve even kissed. Not to mention the scene in the park...

Are you serious??? If your argument for Luna having romantic feelings for Naoto is "constantly masturbating while thinking about him". Then I must have romantic feelings for the whole roster of actresses signed under caribbeancom then. That's just her lust for him at work, plain and simple.

Spoiler: QUOTE.ZIP

To be fair, it does seem like Luna is struggling to understand that/if her feelings for Naoto are romantic in nature and not familial, as Naoto keeps looking at her as Luna, a woman, but she's seemingly afraid to look at Naoto as a man as it would change their relationship in a way that she thinks could drive him away.



I think it's likely that Luna was always devoted to him in her own normal loving way, but when she was caught kissing that guy by Naoto and he ignored her for days, she started to cling to him because she realized that she could lose him. There could also be some other things that were at play when they were younger (maybe she also had what could be considered an inappropriate love for him as a child).

I get the feeling the fear of losing someone she loves could be a fear she developed with her father not being in the picture when she was younger, as she likely loved her father and then he left (for unknown reasons as of right now) and when she thought she would "lose" Naoto, it triggered a bad reaction from her and probably turned unhealthy from there.

I guess we're going to see if this chapter brings story progress in a positive way, as we still have a lot of other parts of the story that haven't been addressed yet.

We still don't know what actually happened with the Police incident after Kawashina bit Naoto, or if it was even related to the bite.

We still don't know who the third girl in the photo is. Although we do know that each of them is a romantic interest for Naoto and if it does turn out to be Hiba, that's going to shake things up, as she would probably have no issue with swooping in and snatching away Naoto if the other two aren't proactive in trying to win him over.

The whole "slut" thing. Although I get the feeling that this might have something to do with Lunas mother as there's a stereotype of single mother = slut, daughter of single mother = slut / easy. I also get the feeling that her parents may have had a messy divorce and Luna hates her family name because it's her mothers and she had Lunas family name changed to hers on the register after the divorce.

There's also a handful of other small things that came up recently, like Luna not wanting to talk about what she did during high school. Maybe she didn't even attend? Maybe she was relentlessly bullied? Maybe she was treated like a slut and was ostracized? Was she separated from Hiba during that time? What was she trying to tell Naoto at Karaoke?

Everybody seems to have either downplayed or forgotten that chapter 11 happened, where we got some juicy lore about Luna. Her dad going out to get milk, when she was little. How she does not get along with her mom. How she considers the time she spent with Naoto every summer until 10 years ago to be THE happiest time of her entire life. Not her spending time with her then boyfriend, spending time with NAOTO. Let that sink in.

Luna even went and gave more hints on how lonely she felt when she told Mimi that she knows how noisy the silence of an empty house is, and how vast and dark a small room feels.

There's plenty of questions yet to be answered, and yet people hyper-fixate on the surface-level "ohmagerd Ntr! RAAAAGH!"