Kuse Tsuyo Kanojo wa Toko ni Izanau - Vol. 4 Ch. 20.6

[Magno94]

Are you serious??? If your argument for Luna having romantic feelings for Naoto is "constantly masturbating while thinking about him". Then I must have romantic feelings for the whole roster of actresses signed under caribbeancom then. That's just her lust for him at work, plain and simple.


Everybody seems to have either downplayed or forgotten that chapter 11 happened, where we got some juicy lore about Luna. Her dad going out to get milk, when she was little. How she does not get along with her mom. How she considers the time she spent with Naoto every summer until 10 years ago to be THE happiest time of her entire life. Not her spending time with her then boyfriend, spending time with NAOTO. Let that sink in.

Luna even went and gave more hints on how lonely she felt when she told Mimi that she knows how noisy the silence of an empty house is, and how vast and dark a small room feels.

There's plenty of questions yet to be answered, and yet people hyper-fixate on the surface-level "ohmagerd Ntr! RAAAAGH!"

You’ve conveniently latched onto just one of the things I mentioned. I brought up the kiss scene and the park scene, where the romantic aspect is explored much more deeply.

If you genuinely think Luna doesn't have romantic feelings for Nao, I don't think we're reading the same story.

 

[OldVice]

We see her become a horndog several times with Naoto, so I think she knows perfectly well that she doesn't like him like a little brother...

Are you serious??? If your argument for Luna having romantic feelings for Naoto is "constantly masturbating while thinking about him". Then I must have romantic feelings for the whole roster of actresses signed under caribbeancom then. That's just her lust for him at work, plain and simple.

I think one of the problems is that Luna thinks what she's feeling is nothing but lust towards Naoto, but some of her actions are hinting towards romantic love, but she either doesn't understand it, or she doesn't want to accept it as she's afraid to change their relationship.

If I stayed with every girl I thought I loved when it was just lust, I'd be married and divorced a stupid amount of times by now. On the flip side, there's some that I thought it was just lust, but it turns out it wasn't and I let something good get away because I was fucking stupid.

Everybody seems to have either downplayed or forgotten that chapter 11 happened, where we got some juicy lore about Luna. Her dad going out to get milk, when she was little. How she does not get along with her mom. How she considers the time she spent with Naoto every summer until 10 years ago to be THE happiest time of her entire life. Not her spending time with her then boyfriend, spending time with NAOTO. Let that sink in.

Luna even went and gave more hints on how lonely she felt when she told Mimi that she knows how noisy the silence of an empty house is, and how vast and dark a small room feels.

There's plenty of questions yet to be answered, and yet people hyper-fixate on the surface-level "ohmagerd Ntr! RAAAAGH!"

I think a certain author put everyone (even myself a little) on edge about the theme lately and has made a lot of people more sensitive to any trace of it creeping into a series they're reading.

 

[shinya78]

You’ve conveniently latched onto just one of the things I mentioned. I brought up the kiss scene and the park scene, where the romantic aspect is explored much more deeply.

If you genuinely think Luna doesn't have romantic feelings for Nao, I don't think we're reading the same story.

Chapter 11 page 16.
Luna initiates a kiss, it's a fairly short and standard one on the lips, no tongue. Ends with a proud smug look after a job well done. As if she was kissing a young child. Contrast when Naoto, who does have romantic feelings for Luna initiates the kiss immediately after page 16. An adult one, the type that made her want it to never end, Luna had to cool down in the showers.

Chapter 19.2 page 19.
Park, Naoto initiates the embrace, Luna drowns in it. Naoto noticed her emphasis on "Nao-kun" as if it was a shadow of someone else. She still sees her "younger brother Nao-kun". <- ATTENTION! You'd think the ghost of Nao-kun past would have left by now, but nope, he's still there in Luna's diamond-shaped eye lens.

You want more?
Chapter 8 page 34~36
After Naoto "marks" his treasure (read: Luna) by giving her a hickey, she initially thought "Nao-kun was just homesick". When the realization of what just happened kicks in and she starts to heat up, she just thinks she only caught Naoto's fever(illness).

Chapter 9 page 21~22.
Naoto confesses to the drunk Luna that he wants them to be close again like they used to. Luna claims their feeling is mutual. Luna immediately asks Naoto to play their childhood games. Luna reverts back to "Big Sis Luna and Younger Bro Nao-kun", until Naoto snaps her back to the present.

Chapter 12 page 24
Luna tells Nao-kun she loves him. This is with the "lighter" "suki" and not the "romantic" "aishiteru".

Chapter 13 page 15
Hiba asks Luna if she's worried that Kawashina would steal away Nao-kun. Luna claims that Nao-kun wasn't Luna's to begin with.

Chapter 15.2 page 8
Turning point, this is where she gets conscious of Nao-kun as a grown man.

Chapter 16.1 page 10
Naoto explains to Luna when he said "he likes her", Luna says she feels the same way, that she treasures him like a real younger brother.

Chapter 16.1 page 12
Luna was pretending to sleep, but she hopes that "things will work out this time", and that "the Nao-kun now" would be able to accept "Luna". This means "Luna" did something with "flashback!Nao-kun" but the young Nao-kun back then wasn't able to accept "Luna". Gee, wonder if this has something to do with her no longer showing up to the countryside, with Naoto's mother withholding the reason why, 10 years ago... <- ATTENTION! This is important detail to remember as more of Luna's secrets gets revealed.

You’ve conveniently latched onto the idea that I completely deny any budding romantic feelings Luna would have towards Naoto. Maybe you just needed a quick reminder of the timeline.

Luna Pre-Middle School (Suffers from parental abandonment, is lonely and depressed in her own house) -> Luna Middle School (Spends a few Summers with a relative[Naoto], considers it up to the present to be the HAPPIEST DAYS OF HER LIFE, cries at the thought of Naoto leaving her) -> Luna 10 years prior to start of story (a still unspecified incident occurred that separated her away from Naoto, Naoto's mother refuses to give details, is part of Luna's 10 secrets) -> Start of story (Reunites with Naoto, treats him the same as where they left off 10 years ago) -> Chapters 1~11 (Naoto slowly working his way out of lil bro zone, Naoto is filled with determination to go all in for Alabama with Luna) -> Chapter 12~15 (Luna slowly starts seeing the Naoto's growth as a man) -> Chapter 16~23 (Luna hopes that "The Nao-kun of Today" can achieve what "The Nao-kun of Yesteryears" failed to do... which is to accept "Luna") -> Chapter 24 (Luna realizes that "Luna" is taking initiative, but is afraid that doing so would cause "Nao-kun" to leave her once again) -> Chapter 25 (Remember when I agreed with you that this is a stupid development? "Luna" backpedals and decides to erase her desires to become Nao-kun's "Luna-Nee" once again, unaware that Naoto WILL ACCEPT EVEN "LUNA", Luna isn't thinking rationally with her actions, she is recklessly going by emotions)

 

[Magno94]

Chapter 11 page 16.
Luna initiates a kiss, it's a fairly short and standard one on the lips, no tongue. Ends with a proud smug look after a job well done. As if she was kissing a young child. Contrast when Naoto, who does have romantic feelings for Luna initiates the kiss immediately after page 16. An adult one, the type that made her want it to never end, Luna had to cool down in the showers.

Chapter 19.2 page 19.
Park, Naoto initiates the embrace, Luna drowns in it. Naoto noticed her emphasis on "Nao-kun" as if it was a shadow of someone else. She still sees her "younger brother Nao-kun". <- ATTENTION! You'd think the ghost of Nao-kun past would have left by now, but nope, he's still there in Luna's diamond-shaped eye lens.

You want more?
Chapter 8 page 34~36
After Naoto "marks" his treasure (read: Luna) by giving her a hickey, she initially thought "Nao-kun was just homesick". When the realization of what just happened kicks in and she starts to heat up, she just thinks she only caught Naoto's fever(illness).

Chapter 9 page 21~22.
Naoto confesses to the drunk Luna that he wants them to be close again like they used to. Luna claims their feeling is mutual. Luna immediately asks Naoto to play their childhood games. Luna reverts back to "Big Sis Luna and Younger Bro Nao-kun", until Naoto snaps her back to the present.

Chapter 12 page 24
Luna tells Nao-kun she loves him. This is with the "lighter" "suki" and not the "romantic" "aishiteru".

Chapter 13 page 15
Hiba asks Luna if she's worried that Kawashina would steal away Nao-kun. Luna claims that Nao-kun wasn't Luna's to begin with.

Chapter 15.2 page 8
Turning point, this is where she gets conscious of Nao-kun as a grown man.

Chapter 16.1 page 10
Naoto explains to Luna when he said "he likes her", Luna says she feels the same way, that she treasures him like a real younger brother.

Chapter 16.1 page 12
Luna was pretending to sleep, but she hopes that "things will work out this time", and that "the Nao-kun now" would be able to accept "Luna". This means "Luna" did something with "flashback!Nao-kun" but the young Nao-kun back then wasn't able to accept "Luna". Gee, wonder if this has something to do with her no longer showing up to the countryside, with Naoto's mother withholding the reason why, 10 years ago... <- ATTENTION! This is important detail to remember as more of Luna's secrets gets revealed.

Literally, you can find the kind of moments you mentioned in any other rom-com, yet you act like this is a work worthy of Shakespeare or something. Don't overthink it; the author simply wanted to throw some NTR elements into a romantic comedy, like others have done, and that's all there is to it.

"Nooo, it's just that Luna likes Nao, but she sleeps with other guys so she doesn't lose him and because she's afraid their relationship will change." (It's funny you say that, considering Luna already "lost" Nao temporarily after getting caught kissing the guy.) What a great idea, let's go fuck someone else; I'm sure Nao will love it when he finds out.

"Nooo. Luna masturbates while thinking about Nao, kisses him, and even tells him she loves him; she even asks him in the park to show her what his feelings are like, but no, Luna doesn't feel anything for Nao."

You've got to be kidding. You're either a master-class ragebaiter or an NTR lover who's absolutely thrilled with what the author has done (wich i don't have any problem with that last thing since everyone has his preferences, but this shit is indefensible) .

 

[shinya78]

Literally, you can find the kind of moments you mentioned in any other rom-com, yet you act like this is a work worthy of Shakespeare or something. Don't overthink it; the author simply wanted to throw some NTR elements into a romantic comedy, like others have done, and that's all there is to it.

"Nooo, it's just that Luna likes Nao, but she sleeps with other guys so she doesn't lose him and because she's afraid their relationship will change." (It's funny you say that, considering Luna already "lost" Nao temporarily after getting caught kissing the guy.) What a great idea, let's go fuck someone else; I'm sure Nao will love it when he finds out.

"Nooo. Luna masturbates while thinking about Nao, kisses him, and even tells him she loves him; she even asks him in the park to show her what his feelings are like, but no, Luna doesn't feel anything for Nao."

You've got to be kidding. You're either a master-class ragebaiter or an NTR lover who's absolutely thrilled with what the author has done (wich i don't have any problem with that last thing since everyone has his preferences, but this shit is indefensible) .

Okay, downplay the backstory all you want. Seems like you just want surface level and don't want to think even a little bit.

I mean, It's not that hard.

Luna grew up lonely and depressed -> Finds a younger relative that made her happy as they treat each other like a real siblings not wanting to be separated from him, this is where "Nao-kun" and "Luna-nee" comes from -> Luna's secret that caused her to no longer show up during Summer had something to do with "Nao-kun" being unable to accept "Luna", this separation is a trauma for her that haunts her to the present day -> The two reunite, Luna doesn't want to make the same mistake as last time so she hides "Luna" away from Naoto thinking that "Nao-kun" would hate her if she's "Luna" and becomes "Luna-nee" once again, meanwhile Naoto attempts to escape "Nao-kun Zone", Luna tells Hiba at the beach that "Nao-kun" can have "Luna-nee" but she can't give him "Luna" -> Naoto gets Luna to be conscious of him and "Luna" and her secrets comes out more and more, she starts hoping that "Nao-kun" of Today would be able to accept "Luna" this time -> Luna notices that she was about to make the same mistake that "Luna" 10 years ago did that caused "Nao-kun" to be separated from her the first time, so she made the decision to erase the cause using which ever method she could think of, this is so she can become "Luna-nee" once again (stupid development, I KNOW, I AGREE with you on this), and this is where we are at currently.

"Nooo, I don't understand the backstory so I'll just say she's completely in love with the MC with no backing other than just because this is a romcom while completely ignoring everything else that I can't understand." (It's funny how you didn't even seem to notice Luna's backstory to begin with) What a great idea, let's not fully comprehend what we're reading and just look at the sexy pictures.

"Nooo. I can't comprehend that a character could've been stuck in the past; backstory? not important"

You've got to be kidding. You're either a master-class gen alpha that can't comprehend what they just read or thinks someone who clashes with your own opinion couldn't possibly be correct (wich i don't have any problem with that last thing, you do you).

Seriously, when it comes to this series in particular, I prefer to see things objectively, I had remained neutral with the whole "NTR or not" thing the manga had since chapter 1. I've seen my fair share of NTR and it's subgenres, learned how to desensitize and just look at the art as a standalone so it's "usable" as material. To this day, revenge netori is the only subgenre that I can read without feeling rage boiling inside. I can see the arguments from either side, and personally take neither as both are mere possibilities until the truth has been revealed. If the author never revealed something, my stance to it is always "it may, or may not be a thing". I only follow what has been explicitly revealed, because only that is what has been confirmed in this "Schrodinger's Slut" of a manga.

 

[MrPP118]

Honestly, like I've said before people are too quick to bring up NTR, infact I'm not even convinced that NTR really applies to this series.

Unless Naoto walks in on Luna and Ryujii having sex or we find out Luna and Ryujii have had sex then it doesn't really matter, Luna having sex offscreen is bad but it's hard to call it NTR because we don't see it happening beyond Naoto's delusional thoughts.

We've already seen that Naoto's thoughts turn out to be wrong, like the delusions he had about Ryujii and Luna then he got to see how Ryujii really was.

Going back to the current chapter, Naoto is offering to help Luna with her pent up lust because he's still operating under the assumption that Luna went to the hotel for sex but it's entirely possible that Luna's confused look in that last panel is because Naoto has misunderstood.

All in all, if we get a reveal that Luna has been having sex with other guys then it's not really going to stop me from enjoying the series unless the author goes full-baka and makes Luna and Ryujii have sex in the present day.

But considering the author's previous works, the tags for this series and the likely possibility that they are aware of how Grapara! crashed and burned I just can't see this series going full blown NTR without the author killing their reputation.

Let's just ride these next few weeks out and see what next chapter brings us, I'd like for Luna to stop holding back and just jump Naoto but I'd settle for them seriously talking and clearing up any misunderstandings.

 

[Magno94]

Honestly, like I've said before people are too quick to bring up NTR, infact I'm not even convinced that NTR really applies to this series.

It is, since the hotel scene is not a flashback from years ago, but rather a scene set in the present, especially after all the interactions she and Nao have shared. Nao himself feels anxious and "betrayed" when he sees Luna entering the hotel.

The author can't have Luna harbor feelings for Nao and then go to a hotel to suck another guy's cock and get fucked... "Oh, but she needs to get that lust for Nao out of her BECAUSE SHE BELIEVES, SHE THINKS, that Nao might abandon her." That’s the fucking problem: the author is using the "brainless heroine" trope, where she jumps to her own conclusions, just to shoehorn in NTR. We’ve seen this a MILLION TIME before.

This is officially a shonen rom-com, not a seinen romance-drama.

 

[MrPP118]

It is, since the hotel scene is not a flashback from years ago, but rather a scene set in the present, especially after all the interactions she and Nao have shared. Nao himself feels anxious and "betrayed" when he sees Luna entering the hotel.

The author can't have Luna harbor feelings for Nao and then go to a hotel to suck another guy's cock and get fucked... "Oh, but she needs to get that lust for Nao out of her BECAUSE SHE BELIEVES, SHE THINKS, that Nao might abandon her." That’s the fucking problem: the author is using the "brainless heroine" trope, where she jumps to her own conclusions, just to shoehorn in NTR. We’ve seen this a MILLION TIME before.

This is officially a shonen rom-com, not a seinen romance-drama.

Even so, I'm giving the benefit of the doubt since the only thing we have for the hotel is Naoto's delusional thoughts about what Luna is doing.

I'm choosing to believe in the author until something explicit happens that isn't just Naoto thinking about it.

 

[Magno94]

Even so, I'm giving the benefit of the doubt since the only thing we have for the hotel is Naoto's delusional thoughts about what Luna is doing.

I'm choosing to believe in the author until something explicit happens that isn't just Naoto thinking about it.

I agree with you; I hope it’s all just a misunderstanding, because if the author really did use the "brainless heroine" trope, I’d find that incredibly cheap, and a plot hole the size of the Great Wall of China.

 

[HirugashiX]

Guys, I’m just gonna say something I think most people would agree with.

Realistically, I don’t think someone would kiss you like that, especially on the lips, if they had absolutely zero romantic interest in you. And that’s not even mentioning how they’re constantly getting physically close to you in an intimate way.

I understand a kiss on the cheek, though. My mom and cousin have kissed me on the cheek before when I was a kid. But getting kissed on the lips by a relative when you’re in college and basically an adult? Idk… that doesn’t sound like just family being close to each other anymore.

But then again, this is a fictional manga, so I guess anything can happen lol.

 

[HirugashiX]

Also, it would be so funny to see everyone’s reactions if it turns out all she did was just go out drinking. I highly doubt the author actually made her do it with some random guy, especially considering she knows kid Naoto literally got mad and didn’t want to talk to her after he saw her kissing her BF. If she’s actually scared of losing him, I don’t think she would do something like that.

But if she actually did do it, then honestly, that would be pretty silly on the author’s part. Whether you see it as NTR or not probably depends on how you interpret the situation, though.

At least we know the MC confessed to her, so something like that shouldn’t happen again if it actually did. I just hope nothing like the Grapara situation happens again lol.

 

[Magno94]

If she’s actually scared of losing him, I don’t think she would do something like that.

Thanks for injecting some sanity into all this madness. That’s exactly what I’ve been saying from the start😭. It would be a plot hole the size of a castle.

I just hope nothing like the Grapara situation happens again lol.

If the author has resorted to that tired "brainless heroine" trope, acting solely on the basis of conclusions she concocts in her head just to shoehorn in some NTR, like: "I like Nao and i don't wanna lose him, so im gona suck other guy's cock and get fucked by him in a hotel", then it’s going to be a piece of crap on par with Grapara or even worse.

 

[HirugashiX]

Thanks for injecting some sanity into all this madness. That’s exactly what I’ve been saying from the start😭. It would be a plot hole the size of a castle.

If the author has resorted to that tired "brainless heroine" trope, acting solely on the basis of conclusions she concocts in her head just to shoehorn in some NTR, then it’s going to be a piece of crap on par with Grapara.

Yeah, i mean if the author did all that character development for the MC just for the FMC to brainlessly go out with someone else. Respectfully it’s literally braindead by the author.

 

[HirugashiX]

Also, it’s technically not Alabama because she is his cousin not his sister and it’s totally legal in Japan so i don’t understand the allegations.

 

[shinya78]

It is, since the hotel scene is not a flashback from years ago, but rather a scene set in the present, especially after all the interactions she and Nao have shared. Nao himself feels anxious and "betrayed" when he sees Luna entering the hotel.

Spoiler: Chapter 25.1, page labeled 14~16

Just before spotting Luna entering the Hotel, Naoto is standing before a crossing after bravely retreating away from Kawashina and Mimi's teasing.
Naoto: It's because I'm like this, that's why for Luna-nee, I am... just a little brother.
Naoto: But I...possibly got conceited somewhere down the line
Naoto: We've always been together recently... I thought we've gotten closer
Naoto: I thought that maybe Luna-nee would have feelings for me even a little bit...
Naoto: ...No.
Naoto sees Luna walking
Naoto: ...Luna-nee?
Naoto: (What an amazing timing to meet her...)
Naoto: Luna-nee!
Luna enters the Hotel
Naoto: ...Huh?
Naoto looks up and sees the words Hotel Grand L- with the rest hidden by his head.
Naoto: (Luna-nee? By herself, in a Hotel...?)

Spoiler: Chapter 25.2, page labeled 20~21

Mimi's story of people sometimes going all the way when they use the matching app causes Naoto's delusion to run Luna_Hotel_JAV(dot)mkv inside his head, so he smashes his hand on a pole to snap him out of it.
Naoto: (Calm down... even now, there are times that Luna-nee spends at that I don't know about.)
Mimi: [It's not like a matching app is only used for finding a lover, I think it would be nice to have people to have food, drinks, and hang out it.]
Naoto: (That's right... she's just meeting up with someone.)
Naoto: (With that, that doesn't mean mine and Luna-nees relationship would change.)
Naoto: (Even my feelings for her... won't change.)
Naoto: (Up until now it won't change)
Naoto: (Yeah... up until now...)

The author can't have Luna harbor feelings for Nao and then go to a hotel to suck another guy's cock and get fucked... "Oh, but she needs to get that lust for Nao out of her BECAUSE SHE BELIEVES, SHE THINKS, that Nao might abandon her." That’s the fucking problem: the author is using the "brainless heroine" trope, where she jumps to her own conclusions, just to shoehorn in NTR. We’ve seen this a MILLION TIME before.

This is officially a shonen rom-com, not a seinen romance-drama.

The "brainless heroine" trope getting the heroine roped into NTR only really applies to legitimate NTR works. This isn't a legitimate one so far, that's why I'm willing to bet that "brainless heroine" isn't the reason for Luna's actions.

Here's the thing though:

• The author's wording did not specify which bodily urge Luna wanted to get rid of so she can continue being "Nao-kun's" "Luna-nee". The author could specify to any other bodily urge should the need arises, it is just HEAVILY implied to be lust from the times Luna gets horny just by thinking of Naoto.
• The author activates King Crimson skips the time Luna spent from opening the hotel room door to getting back home. This is so there's Schrodinger's Cat situation where the readers don't know if she did or did not go all the way with the man she met up in the app with. The only thing confirmed is that she had been drinking alcohol at some point because she reeked of it. This is so he can freely go whichever direction he wanted or needed to progress the story, without writing himself into a dead-end.
• The author used the same tactic over and over again. You think Hiba would do something to Naoto next chapter? Time-skip and don't explain what happened in the skipped time since last chapter. You think you're getting more of Luna's secrets? Time-skip and change the focused heroine to Kawashina instead. Things going a bit too smoothly between the two MCs? Time-skip and introduce a new character in Kurono Mimi.
• The author leaves gaping holes with all the unexplained time-skips to escape from writing himself into a corner, which was the mistake KA made when the editors for some reason ok'd that one chapter into publishing.

But yeah, sure. There's no way there's even a smudge of drama in shounen rom-coms, not even a little hint of it... can't have them in shounen, no sir, it only exists in seinen. That's some "anime and cartoons is only for kids" bullshit, right there.

Also, it’s technically not Alabama because she is his cousin not his sister and it’s totally legal in Japan so i don’t understand the allegations.

Do you know Alex? From SF6? His Arcade Ending? Yeah he married and had a baby with his adoptive sister, not even blood related. People in the West (mostly from Twitter) went ballistic at the character for it. Go ahead, look it up.

 

[MrPP118]

Also, it would be so funny to see everyone’s reactions if it turns out all she did was just go out drinking. I highly doubt the author actually made her do it with some random guy, especially considering she knows kid Naoto literally got mad and didn’t want to talk to her after he saw her kissing her BF. If she’s actually scared of losing him, I don’t think she would do something like that.

But if she actually did do it, then honestly, that would be pretty silly on the author’s part. Whether you see it as NTR or not probably depends on how you interpret the situation, though.

At least we know the MC confessed to her, so something like that shouldn’t happen again if it actually did. I just hope nothing like the Grapara situation happens again lol.

We're not getting a Grapara! situation with this series, even if Luna had sex with someone else, it just doesn't matter, I'm not going to freak out at Luna having sex with NPCs off screen since it might as well not have actually happened, but like I've said before, it's different if something happens between Luna and Ryujii (or another male character that actually shows up properly on screen.)

But I don't think we're going down that route, the Karaoke was the perfect place for Luna to get seduced by Ryujii while his sister was trying to mess with Naoto but it never happened, the thing people need to understand is that the reason the Grapara situation took place was because the author was an established NTR freak and this author isn't like that.

The only crime this author has committed is a good chunk of bait, NTRbait or otherwise but it's NOWHERE close as being bad as to what Grapara went through.

Should something bad happen in the present then yea, I'll be inclined to pick up a pitchfork but honestly we're a few chapters in now and this hotel isn't the first time we've been baited infact, when Ryuji first appeared and then when we went through that karaoke situation I was alot more stressed about those two incidents than I am about the Hotel stuff.

 

[shinya78]

Should something bad happen in the present then yea, I'll be inclined to pick up a pitchfork but honestly we're a few chapters in now and this hotel isn't the first time we've been baited infact, when Ryuji first appeared and then when we went through that karaoke situation I was alot more stressed about those two incidents than I am about the Hotel stuff.

Yeah, I remember that.

When Ryuuji came out and asked Naoto, "Hey, you banged Luna yet?" and laughs at Naoto's reactions. It gave the impression that Ryuuji already did it with Luna before.

Only for it to be revealed later that he only heard the rumours about Luna, and never managed to shoot his shot or ask her if the rumours about her even were true.

 

[MrPP118]

Yeah, I remember that.

When Ryuuji came out and asked Naoto, "Hey, you banged Luna yet?" and laughs at Naoto's reactions. It gave the impression that Ryuuji already did it with Luna before.

Only for it to be revealed later that he only heard the rumours about Luna, and never managed to shoot his shot or ask her if the rumours about her even were true.

This is why people need to not jump the gun and panic about the hotel situation, upon first look it does look bad, REALLY bad but if you consider everything we've been through already then I don't think we really have anything to worry about.

Also, if the author did decide to jump the gun this far in, there would be no reason to conceal any of it from us, not even in Luna's own thoughts.

 

[Magno94]

Spoiler: Chapter 25.1, page labeled 14~16

Just before spotting Luna entering the Hotel, Naoto is standing before a crossing after bravely retreating away from Kawashina and Mimi's teasing.
Naoto: It's because I'm like this, that's why for Luna-nee, I am... just a little brother.
Naoto: But I...possibly got conceited somewhere down the line
Naoto: We've always been together recently... I thought we've gotten closer
Naoto: I thought that maybe Luna-nee would have feelings for me even a little bit...
Naoto: ...No.
Naoto sees Luna walking
Naoto: ...Luna-nee?
Naoto: (What an amazing timing to meet her...)
Naoto: Luna-nee!
Luna enters the Hotel
Naoto: ...Huh?
Naoto looks up and sees the words Hotel Grand L- with the rest hidden by his head.
Naoto: (Luna-nee? By herself, in a Hotel...?)

Spoiler: Chapter 25.2, page labeled 20~21

Mimi's story of people sometimes going all the way when they use the matching app causes Naoto's delusion to run Luna_Hotel_JAV(dot)mkv inside his head, so he smashes his hand on a pole to snap him out of it.
Naoto: (Calm down... even now, there are times that Luna-nee spends at that I don't know about.)
Mimi: [It's not like a matching app is only used for finding a lover, I think it would be nice to have people to have food, drinks, and hang out it.]
Naoto: (That's right... she's just meeting up with someone.)
Naoto: (With that, that doesn't mean mine and Luna-nees relationship would change.)
Naoto: (Even my feelings for her... won't change.)
Naoto: (Up until now it won't change)
Naoto: (Yeah... up until now...)

The "brainless heroine" trope getting the heroine roped into NTR only really applies to legitimate NTR works. This isn't a legitimate one so far, that's why I'm willing to bet that "brainless heroine" isn't the reason for Luna's actions.

Here's the thing though:

• The author's wording did not specify which bodily urge Luna wanted to get rid of so she can continue being "Nao-kun's" "Luna-nee". The author could specify to any other bodily urge should the need arises, it is just HEAVILY implied to be lust from the times Luna gets horny just by thinking of Naoto.
• The author activates King Crimson skips the time Luna spent from opening the hotel room door to getting back home. This is so there's Schrodinger's Cat situation where the readers don't know if she did or did not go all the way with the man she met up in the app with. The only thing confirmed is that she had been drinking alcohol at some point because she reeked of it. This is so he can freely go whichever direction he wanted or needed to progress the story, without writing himself into a dead-end.
• The author used the same tactic over and over again. You think Hiba would do something to Naoto next chapter? Time-skip and don't explain what happened in the skipped time since last chapter. You think you're getting more of Luna's secrets? Time-skip and change the focused heroine to Kawashina instead. Things going a bit too smoothly between the two MCs? Time-skip and introduce a new character in Kurono Mimi.
• The author leaves gaping holes with all the unexplained time-skips to escape from writing himself into a corner, which was the mistake KA made when the editors for some reason ok'd that one chapter into publishing.

But yeah, sure. There's no way there's even a smudge of drama in shounen rom-coms, not even a little hint of it... can't have them in shounen, no sir, it only exists in seinen. That's some "anime and cartoons is only for kids" bullshit, right there.


Do you know Alex? From SF6? His Arcade Ending? Yeah he married and had a baby with his adoptive sister, not even blood related. People in the West (mostly from Twitter) went ballistic at the character for it. Go ahead, look it up.

I mean, i agree with you the fact that the author really likes playing with uncertainty and misunderstandings is an objective point, there isn't much to debate there. My point is more that, if that actually happened, it would be a plot hole impossible to justify, and Hirugashi explained it perfectly here:

especially considering she knows kid Naoto literally got mad and didn’t want to talk to her after he saw her kissing her BF. If she’s actually scared of losing him, I don’t think she would do something like that.

In a shonen rom-com, even if there’s some drama, it's impossible to justify the "I like Nao, but since I don't want to lose him because of the lust, I'm going to suck someone else's dick and fuck him in a hotel" logic (and I’m spelling it out in detail so you can see just how stupid that argument is). I mean, the premise itself is a logical contradiction: if you were very sad when Nao caught you kissing another guy, and he avoided you for days because of it, what do you think will happen if he catches you having sex with someone else?

As I said, that reduces Luna to someone who acts based on assumptions she’s cooked up entirely in her own head:
"If I tell Nao how I feel, I MIGHT lose him."
"If I tell Nao I want to have sex with him, I MIGHT lose him."

How do you know? Have you asked him? In fact, you know perfectly well what Nao feels for you, or, at least, you have a good idea about it.

That’s why I say she fits the classic trope of the brainless heroine who acts based on assumptions and fears instead of using her head. Obviously, that’s distinct from NTR doujins, those are a completely different story.

 

[OldVice]

Huh, this turned into quiet the back and forth after I went to bed.

Do you know Alex? From SF6? His Arcade Ending? Yeah he married and had a baby with his adoptive sister, not even blood related. People in the West (mostly from Twitter) went ballistic at the character for it. Go ahead, look it up.

This also just reminded me of Fatal Frame / Zero and the weird ghost incest between Miku and her brother. I can't remember how people reacted to that though, but I can imagine if those games ever get remade, people will lose their minds over it.

Yeah, I remember that.

When Ryuuji came out and asked Naoto, "Hey, you banged Luna yet?" and laughs at Naoto's reactions. It gave the impression that Ryuuji already did it with Luna before.

Only for it to be revealed later that he only heard the rumours about Luna, and never managed to shoot his shot or ask her if the rumours about her even were true.

After the fact and with recent developments, it's pretty clear that Ryuuji had/has a massive crush on Luna and was probably trying to scare Naoto away by saying that. It's not clear if he himself even actually believed the rumours.

This is why people need to not jump the gun and panic about the hotel situation, upon first look it does look bad, REALLY bad but if you consider everything we've been through already then I don't think we really have anything to worry about.

Also, if the author did decide to jump the gun this far in, there would be no reason to conceal any of it from us, not even in Luna's own thoughts.

It's indeed very likely that the hotel was just the biggest piece of bait Suga has thrown out to date, and nothing that we're thinking of actually happened. Like it has been said multiple times, we don't know what she was trying to "get rid of", but the bait has made everyone thinking that it was something sexual in nature.

Honestly, the readers are basically Naoto and because we only get the information he does, we end up jumping to the conclusions he does and get influenced by his delusions about the worst happening.